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The Five

Brandeis caves to pressure from professors, students, CAIR

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 10, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, FOX HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Andrea Tantaros, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's five o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

Yesterday we told you about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who was denied an honorary degree from Brandeis University for being an outspoken critic of Islam.
Since a young age, she has been brutalized on numerous occasions by Muslims. And some of the details of that abuse are too gruesome for television.

Last night on "The Kelly File," she explained her struggle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AYAAN HIRSI ALI: For the last 12 years I have systematically been condemned by Muslim individuals, Muslim organizations, relatives. Any time that I bring up the treatment of women in Islam, or the link between violence and violence justified in the name of Islam, it's Muslims who commit violence either against women or others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUILFOYLE: Brandeis University cowardly rescinded the degree under pressure from the radical council on American Islamic Relations. Last night she speculated about the university's reasoning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEMALE: There's always this fear that if you insult Muslims there's going to be some kind of violent repercussion. And that may have been part of the decision to do that. But they're not doing their students any favors, and they're not doing their Muslim students any favors because to really be assimilated into American society, to become American, is to accept the idea that you can have a robust debate and there's no other place better to do that than on university campuses.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Ayaan is getting no support, none, from the so-called National Organization of Women, which has refused to respond to our request for comment.

I'm glad to see that this is getting the type of discussion, the level of discourse and attention that we have seen, especially on this network and on the "Kelly File," Andrea. This is something that should outrage and offend people internationally, women, men.

This should not be something where the speech is stifled, where she's not allowed to have, as she says, a robust debate in this country. And she's been stigmatized, death threats, all of this. And then of course cowardly they refused to give her the honorary degree at Brandeis. It's shameful.

ANDREA TANTAROS, FOX HOST: And it shouldn't matter what political affiliation you espouse, either. This is an issue going after radical Islam, which Republicans and Democrats should get behind together.

Unfortunately, many on the left are very slow to comment. National Organization of Women is not an organization for women. It's a far left organization. But this is where they should get involved, but they're not going to.

This woman is absolutely right. Universities are supposed to be laboratories for ideas and forums for debate. I have given speeches before where I've talked about radical Islam. Universities have said I will never be back. They've had forums to talk about the feelings that I hurt. So I'm not surprised they did this to this woman.

But this woman knows better than anybody what it's like to suffer at the hands of radical Islam. You know, Brandeis University said, well, she just doesn't represent our core values.

I would ask Brandeis University, what are your core values? Are you in favor of persecuting homosexuals? Because that is what Islam believes.
And ask them. I'm waiting for another university to step up and give her a different award. If I were her, I would say, you can take your award and shove it.

GUILFOYLE: And we're still waiting for Now (ph) to respond.

Eric, talk to me about the discourse here. And why is it that in this country people are still afraid to stand up for someone who is a proud champion of women's rights?

ERIC BOLLING, FOX HOST: Well, I don't think they are. I think this is CAIR coming down hard on Brandeis. Let's just talk about this for a second.

Here's what this is what this is all about. In 2007 -- that's important -- 2007, she said Islam needs to be defeated, mutated into something that's peaceful. She said we're at war with Islam, 2007.

Now, Brandeis recently offered her this honorary degree, but then retracted it with the pressure from CAIR, and they said -- this is really important -
- "We respect and appreciate her work to defend and protect the rights of women and girls throughout the world. That said, we cannot overlook certain of her past statements that are inconsistent with Brandeis University's core values we're all concerned (ph). We regret that we were not aware of those earlier statements"? Really?

We're not talking about 20 or 30 years ago when she was in college. We're talking about less it than seven years ago she made these comments. They clearly are backtracking, caved under the pressure of Muslim groups like CAIR, had nothing to do with her statements, but they're going to hang it on her instead of eating it and saying, look, we caved, sorry.

GUILFOYLE: Greg, you're nodding your head. I mean, what should Brandeis University have done?

GREG GUTFELD, FOX HOST: I don't know. You know, I remember in the height of the HIV crisis, the signs were "silence equals death." You didn't say anything, that meant that you were OK with gays dying.

Feminists aren't saying anything. The logic is, are they OK with female genital mutilization? The thing about CAIR, they're more obsessed with your response to extremism than the actual extremism itself. If a ball hits you in the face, they would be more concerned about the condition of the ball. That's how they are.

The real culprit, though, isn't CAIR because we know CAIR. We know CAIR is more concerned about the bullying than the bombs. The real culprit is Brandeis. They -- I've seen Ikea bookcases made out of stronger stuff.
Out of fear, they collapse like a botched souffle. They are wusses. They ran under their beds like frightened toddlers in a rainstorm. They're embarrassing. If I had kids at Brandeis, I'd pull them out.

GUILFOYLE: All right, and let's take a listen to their cowardly leader, Ibrahim Hooper, and we'll have Bob respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IBRAHIM HOPPER, CAIR NATL COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: This isn't a First Amendment issue. She speaks all the time. She just spoke in Canada. She speaks all over the place. And we don't say boo about it. But when a prestigious university like Brandeis is about to honor her, and in fact endorse her views, that's when we speak out. It's about hijacking a legitimate issue in order to demonize Islam and marginalize Islams (ph).
And that's what it's about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Bob?

BOB BECKEL, FOX HOST: It's amazing to me that guy has the gall to say that. Basically what he's saying is, we give her the right to speak whenever she wants to, as if they've got any reason or right to give anybody that right, number one.

Number two, I haven't seen this guy's face when it comes to the Boston marathon bomber or 9/11. Why? Because typical of radical Islamists, he's a coward. And I'll call him a coward to his face if he wants to show up.
But he probably doesn't have the guts to do that.

But Brandeis, worse than anything else, what Eric just read there, there's not a single thing she said that is in any way counter to anybody's values unless your values are that you support radical Islam. Now Brandeis wants to go on the record and do that, fine. I still that think there's money involved here, if you don't mind me saying so. If you do mind, I said it anyway.

Brandeis has got to have a better explanation than this. Because who in the world do they think they are, A? And B, they're running against the tide of public opinion. I mean, you're talking about defending radical Islam. Are you kidding me?

BOLLING: Can I just make a very quick point? And what Ms. Ali was pointing out was, as Bob points out, radical Islam. She didn't say all Muslims. She didn't. And that -- there needs to be a distinction. The with CAIR is they don't distinguish. They say, if you say Islam, radical Islam, they take it an insult to the Muslim faith, which is not -- not --

GUILFOYLE: They're two separate things.

BOLLING: Absolutely two separate things. We distinguish here. But the problem with CAIR is they can't make the distinction.

GUILFOYLE: Well, they don't want to because they want to demonize. And they're a big part of the problem, OK? They're the one that are not helping the Muslim community to come forward, to have a voice. Because law abiding Muslims are sitting back having chilled speech. They don't want to come forward because they're afraid of reprisals. This is not an open and safe place to be.

BECKEL: Well that's -- the thing Greg said that I think is very important.
They argue -- if you get hit with a ball, they worry about what happens to the ball. Has anybody seen -- maybe I'm wrong -- but did CAIR stand up after 9/11? Did this guy stand up?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: They're an uninvited co-conspirator.

BECKEL; There you go. So why are we paying any attention to these thugs?

TANTAROS: So the question would be, then, to Brandeis and to CAIR, is what this woman is saying not true? Is it true or is it or untrue? What she's saying is true. She said, "I think that we're at war with radical Islam."

I don't think I know, and, in fact, radical Islam, whether we declare war on them or not, have already declared it on us. They've done it for hundreds of years. And the problem with universities like Brandeis and wussy liberals, is they think, the nicer they are, if the president can go to Cairo and give a speech and say wonderful things about their pottery, that maybe they'll stop cutting our heads off. They're not going to do it.

And I'm really disappointed in Brandeis because it's a primarily Jewish -- known as a Jewish University. It's a religion that also knows oppression that should be in favor of anyone being able to speak up and tell their story. It's incredibly disappointing. And if I was a donor of Brandeis as well, I would pull donations.

GUILFOYLE: That's a good idea.

GUTFELD: CAIR is all for encouraging censorship of films that are critical of their point of view. That's part of their culture. Their culture is that you can censor. There should not be free expression.

That is not our culture. And so, when people are insulted or they're parodied for saying they're scared that there's an infiltration of certain radical Islamic culture into our society, this is an example of it. Where did they get that idea? Well, remember, we put a guy in jail for anti- Islamic film. So we've done it ourselves.

And it leads to the question, where is the inspirational moderate Muslim leader? Who is their Gandhi? There isn't one because they don't last.
They're in hiding. Being a moderate is more dangerous than being a high- rise window cleaner.

BECKEL: No kidding.

TANTAROS: Also real quick, on the point about women and sex, this woman was a victim of genital mutilization. We've talked about on this show this Republican war on women and how Democrats make it seem like the biggest issue facing women is not getting access to contraception.

I want to know where are the Hollywood celebs? Where is Lena Dunham talking about how this woman's sexual pleasure was taken away. Where are these liberal women in Hollywood that are trying to advocate for our sex lives every day in America advocating for Muslim women?

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL; The Muslims, Christians and Jews all emanate from the same area of the world. They are three great religions of the world. If one -- if we had, as Christians, if we had groups who were going around bombing people and killing people, we would deal with it. We'd speak up about it. We'd say something about it, and we would prosecute them. Why it is that -- how many Muslims are there in the world? 100 million?

BOLLING: Over a billion.

GUTFELD: Over a billion.

BECKEL: Over a billion. All right, you mean to tell me out of that crowd there's not somebody willing to stand up to these cowardly punks?

GUILFOYLE: He's right. Stand up and get loud. Do not tolerate crimes against women. That's the message here.

Directly ahead --

GUTFELD: Or men, too.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Or men.

Questioning groups, all of the above. Stand up for the rights.

All right, Eric Holder blasts how lawmakers treated him on Capitol Hill this week as, quote, "ugly and divisive." So why is the attorney general implying race is the issue? Greg breaks down Holder's heated remarks.
That's next on "The Five." Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Attorney General Eric Holder called his recent treatment by a House committee ugly and divisive. Behold --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: You look at the way the Attorney General of the United States was treated yesterday by a House committee.
What Attorney General has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment?
What president has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So what ruffled his delightful mustache? This.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: It is important that we have proper oversight.

HOLDER: You don't want to go there, buddy? You don't want to go there, OK?

GOHMERT: I don't want to go there?

HOLDER: No.

GOHMERT: About the contempt?

HOLDER: You should not assume that that is not a big deal to me.

GOHMERT: We can't get the information to get to the bottom of that, so I don't need lectures from you about contempt.

HOLDER: And I don't need lectures from you either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOHMERT: Men, men, men. My word, kind of reminds me of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE Senator, we can have this discussion in any way that you would like, but I really hope that you will refrain from impugning my integrity. Thank you very much.

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: I'm not. I'm just quoting what you said. You contradicted the president and you contradicted yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: And remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: We knew damn well if he went to Canada he wouldn't be tortured. He'd be held. He'd be investigated. And it's beneath the dignity of this country, a country that has always been a beacon of human rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: My point is this. Is this unprecedented adversity, really unprecedented? And if Holder was white, would it matter? Holder seems to think he deserves special treatment. Why is that? Isn't it racist not to treat him like everybody else?

And what if the IRS targeted the National Action Network and not the Tea Party? After all, he did say this stuff to Al Sharpton's National Action Network which owes millions in taxes and is run by a hate-fueled race baiter.

The fact is, Holder knows America hates the progressive policies of subversion, so he cloaks his leftist aims in racial rhetoric. But to me, it's Holder's behavior that's divisive. It's projection. He sees anger in others that he himself feels. After all, America must pay for its past, and he's the bill collector.

And so everyone's racist: opposition to Obamacare is racist, the budget, immigration, soap. Anything the left hates is racist. As usual, it's up to us to nail this scam because the rest of the media swallows it like an adolescent with a booger. That's the joke.

They call us divisive, yet they've seen the enemy and it's always us, the U.S. And so a government agency can now inflict harm with a tacit nod from the media. And if you question that, you've got to be racist. How convenient for those being questioned.

Sorry about that metaphor, KG. I know that disgusted you.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, made me really nauseous.

GUTFELD: Sorry. But what do you think Holder means by unprecedented adversity? Is this a fair poitn? Is he being singled out?

GUILFOYLE: You know what? I don't have a lot of sympathy. As a fighter for justice and freedom, I did the job he's supposed to be doing. I don't understand why this man cannot answer questions. He's a truth dodger. Why can't he sit there, represent the country well, answer the questions. Why does he have so many of these things that are all part of his legacy, whether it's Benghazi, whether it's Fast and Furious, whether it's his refusing to be specific about how the president can act unilaterally on Obamacare?

He doesn't have answers. He says, oh, vast discretion. That's it. He can't answer the questions. He knows what he's doing is wrong. He's only acting on his own political ideology and then he acts like a crybaby. He's supposed to be able to handle the tough questions. And as you saw on the video there, this is not unprecedented at all. Would he like to give us his job back?

GUTFELD: Bob? That's pretty strong words coming from KG.

BECKEL: It's over the top even for KG.

GUTFELD: But I think she's making a fair point. She's done the job.

BECKEL: What is not a fair point is this guy has been fighting for the laws of this land. He's been a very good Attorney General.

Let me put it this way. Let's start with a bigger picture. Is there still racism in America? Anybody who believes there's not some -- it's much better -- but do not believe there is some are really kidding themselves, No. 1. No. 2, if he had been white, I don't think -- he didn't use the word racism there. But I know Louie Gohmert and he's the kind of guy that's going to continue to dig and dig and dig.

GUILFOYLE: Watch it.

BECKEL: He did not use the word racist.

GUILFOYLE: Watch it.

GUTFELD: He implied it.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: He did it at the (inaudible). It was clear.

BECKEL: What did he say? What did he say?

GUTFELD: What other president and Attorney General, black and black, have had that scrutiny?

BECKEL: That's your assumption, that they're black and black.

GUTFELD: Oh, please. There was no race involved?

BECKEL: Do I think there are times when he may believe that because he's black that he gets a harder job? Probably there is. Do I believe there are times when he does? Yes.

GUTFELD: Bob, Bob, Bob.

GUILFOYLE: Because he's black? There's no evidence to justify that statement.

BOLLING: Forget if he's black or white. You called him a good Attorney General.

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: Fast and Furious, we handed over guns to drug lords and it killed border agents. Benghazi --

GUILFOYLE: And a lot of Mexicans lost their lives.

BOLLING: We're still looking for the perpetrators of Benghazi. They promised to do that. The IRS scandal, who reports -- Lois Lerner who reports to him, he refuses to find out what's going on. What's good about this guy? Name one thing that he's done that's --

BECKEL: In every one of those things you identify, the Congress of United States has held myriad hearings and they have not come up with anything.

BOLLING: And they can't get an answer from anyone including him.

BECKEL: Oh come on. There is something called the Freedom of information Act. They could get it if they wanted it to get it.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no. It's as black as this table, everything is redacted. Everything is glossed out. They sit on the subpoenas, they refuse to honor the requests. They refuse to answer questions.

BECKEL: If Louie Gohmert had been talking to a Republican Attorney General, you think he would have talked like that?

GUILFOYLE: You know what? You're making really false heinous allegations against Louie Gohmert -- they're just --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Let me ask you this. Do you think Republicans were hard on Janet Reno?

BECKEL: What?

GUILFOYLE: Do you think Republicans were hard on Janet Reno?

BECKEL: Yes. Oh yes.

GUILFOYLE: Because she was a woman?

TANTAROS: I was just checking.

BECKEL: No. Not because she was a woman necessarily.

TANTAROS: Both sides argue that the treatment of their Attorney Generals have been harsh. What I find to be nauseating is that he stands in front of Al Sharpton's organization and get out your violin and tries to say he's the victim. Eric Holder is the most above the law anti-Constitution, race- baiting, racially nostalgic Attorney General we've ever had. It's not just that he has specifically made civil rights an issue for him. He doesn't go after cases specifically involving the persecution of whites.

BECKEL: Can we replay that video? You show me what he said in front of Sharpton's organization.

TANTAROS: No, no, Bob, black on white violence, he does not address these issues at the Justice Department. So there's this little fraction you keep talking about, of race in America, and he's -- that's his job to just focus on that little bit.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: What about incrimination (ph) at the voting poll?

BECKEL: I want to see on that tape where he said race.

BOLLING: Well, no, he didn't.

BECKEL: Well, then, you're making the inference.

BOLLING: He said the president and the Attorney General. He left out a whole of -- he left the vice president.

GUILFOYLE: What do you think he meant, tall guys? Being so tall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Let's replay it, kids.

GUILFOYLE: One more time!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: You look at the way the Attorney General of the United States was treated yesterday by a House committee.
What Attorney General has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment?
What president has ever had to deal with that kind of treatment?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: What is he implying?

BECKEL: OK, that makes my point. The treatment is that he was treated maliciously by Gohmert.

GUTFELD: And why?

BOLLING: Why?

BECKEL: Why? Because Louie didn't know what he was talking about.

GUTFELD: Really?

BECKEL: That's why. And the other thing is, Barack Obama has consistently been turned down by every major newspaper, by every Republican. Is that something to be treated badly? I would say so.

GUILFOYLE: Come up with a better initiative.

BOLLING: So you don't see any race innuendo in that comment whatsoever?

BECKEL: Not at all. Not at all.

TANTAROS: OK, what about the time Eric Holder said if it wasn't for fact that he was the Attorney General, he would be targeted driving his car because he's black in Washington, D.C., because he's black?

BECKEL: That's probably true.

TANTAROS: OK, So he has made comments to that effect many times.

BECKEL: Any black will tell you they get targeted like cops at stop --

TANTAROS: Trayvon Martin, he made those comments. He's made plenty of comments.

BECKEL: You guys don't believe that people get targeted because they're black? You don't believe when they go into a store to shop --

GUTFELD: I get targeted because I'm short.

GUILFOYLE: No, but what we're saying is he's not getting certain treatment because of the color of his skin. People have a serious issue with the way he doesn't do his job, not his skin.

BECKEL: How much more extreme can you get than with Goonie Gohmert?

TANTAROS: Bob, you're not saying -- people aren't targeted because they're white as well? People are targeted.

BECKEL: No, I don't think so.

GUTFELD: We were getting along so well in the A block. Now it's just falling apart.

TANTAROS: It's over.

GUTFELD: Coming up, oh this will be fun. What made Al Sharpton turn into an FBI mob informant? "The Smoking Gun" has a stunning new theory revealing what could be the real reason the rev became a rat. Details directly ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: In an attempt to explain his work as FBI mob informant in the '80s, Al Sharpton claims he turned into a rat after -- after, his life was threatened by wise guys.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: My life was threatened by people who claimed to be mobsters. A guy who calls himself Sal actually flew to New York from L.A. And said that if I didn't stop interfering they would kill me. I contacted the FBI, even though I had recent run-ins in a separate boxing investigation. My call led to my cooperating with the FBI against those mob guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: But "The Smoking Gun" may have blown his cover. The new report suggests Sharpton was afraid he could face criminal charges, so he chose the path of self-preservation. The report says Sharpton was flipped by the FBI agents after agents confronted him about this 1983 undercover cocaine sting video.

Does anybody still believe the Reverend's rat story? Bob?

BECKEL: The big crime is the hat.

TANTAROS: That's the only good thing I see.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's that sexy white track suit.

BOLLING: Look, he tries to say that the wise guys threatened him so he went FBI informant. But the reality, according to Smoking Gun, is that he did it because he was caught in the sting.

BECKEL: I don't know the facts behind this. I do know that in that sting operation that he ran, he did not request cocaine. It was given -- he said it. Now, would he infer from him that he was going to get that and take it some place and sell it? Yes, of course you would. But I don't think there's any evidence of that. I haven't seen the whole thing...

GUILFOYLE: Bob, you just contradicted yourself.

BECKEL: No. No, I didn't. What I'm saying here is that I think, from the standpoint, all the information looks to me like he was telling a story in order to get out from underneath this. That's true.

My only point is I haven't seen the whole tape, and I don't know all the details behind it. So it's a little bit difficult to convict a guy until you see all the evidence.

BOLLING: Well, he claims there's another video that -- that exonerates him, but again we pointed out yesterday no one can find it.

GUILFOYLE: It seems to be missing.

BOLLING: Paid informant. Interesting about the paid part.

GUILFOYLE: It is. That's how he was making a living. I wonder, that's like a resume booster for him? How he gets hired? I mean, it's pretty sad, because his world is pretty much tumbling down around him. But I think most upsetting is he doesn't like these photos now with the track suit with the gold thing.

BOLLING: It was the '80s. Can we -- can we forgive him for his track suits?

GUTFELD: Yes. I looked exactly like that back in the '80s. It's amazing...

GUILFOYLE: I actually like track suits.

GUTFELD: He still has a show on MSNBC. I guess it's because Fred Phelps is dead. But I guess...

GUILFOYLE: They kept letting everybody else go.

GUTFELD: Lucky for Sharpton -- never mind. Lucky for Sharpton, he has friends in high places, and President Obama is really high -- in the White House.

And this will not affect Sharpton, because his threat of demonstrations always turn ugly and so people are scared of him. And thanks to the White House, he enjoys privileges that none of us will ever know.

He's almost like an American success story. He's failed up more than Snooki. And if he can do it, anyone can. He's almost inspirational.

BOLLING: Let me take that one step further. If you watch MSNBC, And, they hold this guy on a pedestal like he's like the next Gandhi.

TANTAROS: Why?

BOLLING: It's amazing with this background -- Tawana Brawley, it goes on and on.

GUTFELD: Crown Heights?

BOLLING: All of it. And yet they still, "Hey, the Reverend Al is coming on." They promo it. He's their hero.

TANTAROS: I'm not a rat but a cat. Ever since the Tawana Brawley fraud that he pulled off, I mean, he was so comfortable standing in front of a microphone in front of all those cameras, perpetrating a fraud on the entire country. I don't believe a word he says going forward.

So when he stood in front of the camera the other day and said, I was just trying to do the nice -- you know, just trying to help myself out. I didn't believe him then. He said it here on "The Five." So even if he was, Bob, involved in a drug deal, that's still a crime.

BECKEL: NO, no. There's no question. And by the way, the Tawana Brawley thing was one of the worst, most despicable acts this guy ever perpetrated.

TANTAROS: Right.

BECKEL: He about ruined the entire reputation of an upstate district attorney because he was lying and she was lying.

But let me ask you a question. If you're becoming a paid informant, if you're -- if you're made an informant because they catch you in an illegal activity and they say, "OK, we're not going to prosecute you, but you've got to inform on this."

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but he also got.

BECKEL: Do they also pay -- do they usually pay people that they bust like that as well as ...?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, yes, yes, there's two paths. You can be a paid informant that, you know, works with law enforcement, or you can be somebody who's engaging in nefarious illicit criminal activity, and then you do it to get a pass on the crime that they caught you with.

BECKEL: But he's both. He's both.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I don't even know how -- what, so he's a paid informant?
At least he's making money. This is ridiculous.

BOLLING: Can I throw a quick comment in here? Reverend Al has a tendency to turn these things into race. Race or not, he'll make it about race. If he does -- I predict, I think he's going to eventually say he's being villainized and attacked because of his color.

Reverend Al, it has nothing to do with your color. It has everything to do with your character.

Anyone think he's going to make this leap?

GUTFELD: Of course. That's what he does.

TANTAROS: Of course. Hasn't he already done that? Hasn't he already said, "I'm being victimized"? He's played the victim card. I think just a couple of days ago. I don't expect more from him.

I don't expect more from MSNBC. They let Martin Bashir make those comments before they denounced him. They have a history of not condemning offensive behavior. So why would they -- why would they condemn this?

BECKEL: You know, the one thing I will say about this is he's gotten away with a lot of this stuff, but it's been not just because you've got Obama in the White House. When the Republicans were in the White House, Tawana Brawley. When Crown Heights...

BOLLING: Isn't it just the opposite, what you just said?

GUTFELD: Wait a minute. That guy has been in the White House more than the decorator. I mean, it's amazing.

TANTAROS: A lot more.

BECKEL: All I'm saying is that a lot of Al Sharpton's history has gone back through administrations, and he continues to get away with it.

GUTFELD: Well, he intimidates -- he intimidates everyone. Because there's a threat of -- there's always a threat of an action, a rally, and his rallies often turn ugly. You've got Freddie's Fashion Mart. The guy that burned that place to the ground was one of the people at the Sharpton protest and killed seven people, including the guy that set the place on fire. Nobody wants to deal with that presence in front of their business, and so they just give him money.

BOLLING: You've got to ask, what do they see on MSNBC management that says, we've got to get more of this guy on TV?

All right. Up next, Mayor de Blasio's promise to ban New York City's horse-drawn carriages hits some hurdles. Andrea hopped on board to find out what people in the Big Apple feel think about carriages and their controversy. We'll show you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TANTAROS: Well, one of New York City's most iconic attractions, the horse- drawn carriages in Central Park, could soon be a thing of the past if its new mayor gets its way. Yes, Bill de Blasio is promising to ban the famed carriage rides, claiming the horses face inhumane working conditions. But
100 days into his term, no bill has been introduced.

I went to Central Park earlier to see how folks in the Big Apple feel about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DE BLASIO, MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: We are going to get rid of the horse carriages, period.

TANTAROS: Why would anyone want to get rid of this? I'm here in the heart of Central Park with Keenan (ph) and Christina, trying to get to the bottom of why New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio wants to get rid of this wonderful New York City tradition, which is the horse-drawn carriages.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're rescuing them from a life that any horse, if they have the capacity to think about it this way, would gladly take on.

TANTAROS: A lot of people are saying on the other side, these horses aren't treated well. Any truth to that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me some facts. Show me the truth.

TANTAROS: What do you think about mayor de Blasio getting rid of the horse-drawn carriages in Central Park?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm all for it. With the potential danger in the city, it's something that's not needed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's insane. I think it's a tradition in New York City. I think people love it.

TANTAROS: How are people going to get engaged without Tyson (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a good question. And our claim to fame is in 27 years I've never had a no. So we seal a lot of deals here.

TANTAROS: Hey, King, thanks for the ride today. I hope I can save your job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TANTAROS: He has a job, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

TANTAROS: I did a little digging on this issue, and it turns out raw politics and money, shocking, is at the bottom of this. Where these horses reside at night, the stables is very expensive real estate, and Mayor Bill de Blasio would love to reward some of his political allies with some high- rise luxury condos, boot King and his buddies out, all the other horses, and put some low-income housing in. So raw politics.

GUILFOYLE: I love the horses. It turns out if you look at actually the polling in New York City, the majority of New Yorkers are actually in favor of keeping the horse-drawn carriages. So unless they have evidence and proof that the horses are being abused, not being taken care of properly or that there are substantial risks to their safety, of course there's always going to be, you know, an accident. It's unfortunate. But I don't know.
This is just part of New York City. I can't imagine Central Park and the areas around it without the horses. They're beautiful.

TANTAROS: And Bob, the only way to stop this is if the city council votes against it. And actor Liam Neeson is big on keeping the horses there. He had a number of them to the stables. And a lot of these members, a lot of democrats, said, "We were lied to by Mayor de Blasio. These horses are treated very well."

BECKEL: I live right near where they put those horses. They come down 11th Avenue every day. And I've walked past those stables. And it smells better than my apartment I can tell you that, one.

GUILFOYLE: Not surprising.

BECKEL: And, two, I've used that -- those rides myself for purposes of seeing the park. And I think they're great.

TANTAROS: For seeing the park.

BECKEL: Lovely at night. And the last thing is, the police have horses that go around the city. Nobody's complaining about that.

TANTAROS: So you have your own fillies, so to speak.

BECKEL: So to speak. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and fillies.

TANTAROS: Eric, guess what they're going to replace these horses with, the mayor said? Electric cars. Your favorite.

BOLLING: Get out of here. Really?

TANTAROS: Yes, electric antique cars, which they haven't even made. They don't exist.

BOLLING: So can I take the other side of this? This clearly is the liberal war on the small business. I get it, and I get the outrage.
However...

TANTAROS: Get in line!

BOLLING: I am an animal lover and I have so much pity for these horses.

GUILFOYLE: Why?

TANTAROS: They like their jobs.

BOLLING: Look, take a very close look at them next time...

GUILFOYLE: I lived across the street.

BOLLING: I know. I'm not convinced they're treated as humanely as everyone seems -- well, I could be wrong. If they are, then fine. One other thing, these petty cabs, they're a menace to society.

GUILFOYLE: Get rid of those guys.

BOLLING: Get rid of those guys! But leave the horses?

GUILFOYLE: Those are dudes on bikes. That's not a New York tradition.

BOLLING: Why is that any different than a horse?

GUILFOYLE: They're criminals. They try to pick you up. They're perverts.

TANTAROS: For the record, I didn't see any -- they're all animal lovers, a lot of the people who, you know, have the horses, and I didn't see any bad behavior. King has five weeks' vacation. These horses get five weeks'
vacation.

Greg, what about horse unemployment in this country? It will skyrocket.

GUTFELD: I hate these carriages, but it has nothing to do with the
treatment of the horses.

GUILFOYLE: You can't get up in it?

GUTFELD: No, I had -- very good. It has to do with the treatment of the drivers. The drivers have to spend all day enduring pointless conversation among lovebirds, hopeless honeymooners, slobbering infatuated newlyweds that make me sick. The horses have it easy. I see these people in those carriages smiling. It's not going to last! In two years.

BECKEL: Most of them four years. It's all right.

GUTFELD: And by the way, I'm not a big fan of animal lovers. I think that's against the Bible.

TANTAROS: What? Horse-drawn carriages?

GUTFELD: No. Loving animals.

GUILFOYLE: He means, like, in love.

TANTAROS: Well, we love you, and you're a bit of an animal.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

TANTAROS: All right. Coming up, the standoff intensifies in Nevada as a rancher threatens a range war against the federal government. This as armed agents are impounding his cattle. You'll hear from the brave American who is defending his property in just a few moments right here on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Stand-up over property rights is reaching a boiling point in Nevada as rancher Cliven Bundy wages a battle against the federal government. The speech started two decades ago when the government declared the land a habitat for the desert tortoise one of Greg's favorites. Bundy refused to comply and continued letting his cattle graze on the land. Last week the feds began seizing the cattle and now Bundy has threatened a good old "range war."

Let me just say...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLIVEN BUNDY, NEVADA RANCHER: They've seized Nevada statehood, Nevada law, the Clark County public land's access to their land, and they've seized access to all of the other rights of Clark County people that like to go hunting and fishing. They've closed all those things down.

And we're here to protest that action. And we're after freedom. We're after some liberty.

My statement to the American people, I'll do whatever it takes to gain our liberties and freedom back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: I think he interrupted me. The -- having, at one point as you know, I owned a ranch with some other people up in Montana. We used to lease grazing rights to ranchers around for a considerable amount of money per cow.

The federal government has a dirt-cheap policy of renting their land out, and this guy is getting a break. It's been contentious in Congress for years. Whether you like it or not, he is breaking the law. If he's going to continue to break the law, they're going to take your cattle.

BOLLING: I'm going to agree with you. Look, the problem is, the government gets involved in things like this. They undercut what you were dog, you were a businessman, you were earning a living leasing out your land. Government came -- comes in and undercuts you.

Government should stay out. They subsidize everything. They subsidize ethanol. They subsidize land. They subsidize this grazing rights. The Farm Bill is just an insanely huge expense that we shouldn't even be involved in. We pay farmers not to produce corn.

BECKEL: That's right.

BOLLING: We pay them, payment in kind. It's insane. Get out of the way.
Let free market...

BECKEL: One of the worst bills -- one of the worst in Congress.

BOLLING: How much it cost to graze your cattle.

GUTFELD: I wish they'd pay me not to produce corn.

TANTAROS: Or ethanol.

BECKEL: Andrea, what do you think?

TANTAROS: Bob Beckel, cattle rancher. I learn something new about you every single day, and I've known you for a decade.

I feel bad for this guy. You know, the government is trying to make it impossible to make a living. And the way that they're seizing his cattle now, it's pretty dramatic in droves.

However, I do agree with you, Bob. It is the law of the land. It's a dumb law about a tortoise. But it doesn't give him his right -- the right to ignore the law. He hasn't paid his grazing fees in over 20 years. So dare I say, the government has actually been somewhat patient with him.

BECKEL: Yes, that's right. A million dollars he owes.

GUTFELD: But you bring up the tortoise. The endangered tortoise. Whose fault is that? The tortoise. How do tortoises last that long being that slow? Pick it up! That's the problem.

GUILFOYLE: Pick up the pace. Yes.

GUTFELD: The people with the tortoises that are making this crazy. The government should just say, "Lighten up. We don't care about the tortoise." Smaller government makes a bigger person.

BECKEL: What do you think? Are you for the tortoise or the hare?

GUILFOYLE: The tortoise. Somebody needs to throw the hare in the game and get this thing going. Because I'm worried about a standoff, some kind of a Waco situation. People feel very passionately about their rights. He said, "I'm willing to do whatever it takes."

So I don't know. I think this one has a potential bad outcome.

BECKEL: Yes, it certainly does.

GUTFELD: Maybe tort-oise reform.

BECKEL: Tortoise reform. "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Tortoise reform?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: All right. It's time now for "One More Thing." And we want to wish a very special "happy birthday, baby," to the Juan Williams, one of our "Fivers." Happy birthday. He's looking fabulous. And apparently, I can say that he's 60, and I think we can say that because he looks so good.

Anyway, Juan, I have a very special present for you. You're going to have to come to New York City to collect it. Now...

GUTFELD: What does that mean?

TANTAROS: Bring your Republican son.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Make it a family affair

BECKEL: Yes, OK, Juan. Juan, can I trade presents with you?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh, please.

That picture was from Ed Henry, and that was a luncheon they had for him in D.C. because Juan is big-time.

All right. Bobby.

BECKEL: OK. You remember I mentioned yesterday about the Republican Congressman McAllister from Louisiana, who had a little bit of trouble with his staffer. In fact, he made out with his staffer and very embarrassing.

Well, the Republican chairman of the state party in Louisiana has called for his resignation, and now joining the crowd is Governor Jindal, who said, "He says he wants privacy to work out issues with his family. The best way to get privacy and work on putting his family back together is to resign from Congress."

I agree. The few times I agree with you, Congressman -- Governor Jindal.

Congressman, get your butt out of town.

GUTFELD: Has Hillary weighed in yet? Has Hillary asked him to resign?

BECKEL: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Eric.

GUTFELD: That'd be interesting. I'd like to see her take on it.

GUILFOYLE: Eric.

BOLLING: I see where you're going with that.

GUTFELD: Stand by your pig.

TANTAROS: The modesty police.

BOLLING: OK. Stephen Colbert was named -- I guess CBS announced it -- as the replacement for David Letterman today. They did it through a tweet and then they made a press release. Also, the Comedy Central congratulated Stephen Colbert.

But one thing for sure, the attacks on conservatives will likely continue now that Stephen has taken over.

Good question: Will he come out of character? You know, he plays that right-wing, I don't know, kind of O'Reilly-ish type of comedy character.
Will he come out? I'm guessing he's going to have to go straight now, right?

GUILFOYLE: that's pretty interesting.

TANTAROS: OK. Katherine Heigl, you know her from "Grey's Anatomy." She always makes headlining for whining, and she has a new headline. She's whining that Duane Reade used her name in one of their tweets as advertising, because she was walking with a Duane Reade bag. And so she's suing Duane Reade for $6 million.

This woman is an idiot. Katherine Heigl, get over yourself. No one's going to see you with a Duane Reade bag and go shop there over CVS because you shop there. The end.

GUILFOYLE: Kind of like crazy.

TANTAROS: She seems like a real pain in the you know what.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Greg.

GUTFELD: I agree with you. Hey, you know what? It's time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I hate these people!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: I got it. I got you.

GUTFELD: Now, I'm trying to lose a little weight, so now it's salad time for Greg. And I hate going to the old salad bar where I see the guy with the tongs, and he uses the tongs for the tuna and for the other food.

Now get this straight. Seafood should never mix with real food. The sea is the world's toilet. I don't like things that live in the world's toilet, and I don't want it mixed with my other food.

So when I ask for the bacon, you put it in the thing. You don't go to the seafood. That's terrible.

Don't tell me we have to go. I am not done yet. Because I'm not here tomorrow! I'll be in Florida on my book tour.

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