Do corporations have the same religious rights as people?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," March 26, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: This is the Fox News alert. We're awaiting a new update on the deadly mudslide in Washington. We'll bring that news conference to you as soon as it begins.

Now, should corporations have the same religious rights as people? The Supreme Court will decide that after hearing arguments from both family-owned businesses and the government yesterday. Under ObamaCare, companies must cover contraception for employees even if it violates their religious principles.

Now, here's a lawyer for one of the companies at the center of the case.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government has made exemptions so that tens of millions of people are in insurance plans that aren't covered by this mandate. There's simply no reason for the government to force these families to be involved if they don't want to. There are plenty of other ways to get drugs without dragging this people into it. Hobby Lobby provides all sorts of standard birth control. It's just a small handful of drugs and devices that can cause early abortions that Hobby Lobby doesn't want to provide.


GUILFOYLE: What will the justices decide? Well, Krauthammer says it's a toss-up.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I don't think you slam dunk either side. On the one side, you could see how it could be abused, where you would be forcing corporations, for example, to fund abortions. On the other hand, if you allow the religious -- the pleading that something is against your religion, you could have a religion or a CEO who says it's against my religion to support or to subsidize vaccinations.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana, a lot of discussion about this, analysis back and forth about how people think the court will decide. How do you see it?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I think yesterday morning when you woke up and people finally started to focus on the Hobby Lobby case, that there was a lot of confusion as to what the case actually was.

And then as usual, after 24 hours, after some people have a chance to think about it and after the arguments were heard, then it came, the focus became more on the narrow question as you laid out in the intro, which is about corporations and can a corporation bring a case under this Religious Freedom Restoration Act? That's what the justices are going to decide.

I think it is split, but I'm not a lawyer, you are. But just reading -- I'm able to read English. From what I could tell, I think that the administration overstepped its bound and the court will give them a hip check on it.

GUILFOYLE: I agree, as a lawyer.

Now, Eric, what do you think? Big issues at play. It could have far- reaching implications. So, this is one everyone wants to watch.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Right. And what we really are talking about is Hobby Lobby and the other group that is represented now. By the way, there are about 100 groups that are eventually going to be represented. Their specific pushback is on the IUDs and morning after pill because they feel like there's already been conception and this kills a living conceived fetus, a being, so they're really pushing back on that hard.

Interesting when you hear some of the questioning that was going on, Kagan and Sotomayor and Ginsburg were pushing Hobby Lobby hard. You know, how do you explain this, why do you explain this, what makes you think you can do this? And as a corporation, and get this exemption from the law, and it's very interesting.

One of the last things that I believe it was Sotomayor, or it could have been Kagan, but I believe it's Sotomayor, she said, well, don't worry because you can avoid this by paying the penalty, the $24 million penalty to Hobby Lobby, talked about it yesterday.

That's exactly what they're trying not to do. Not that the $24 million will bankrupt them, but that's in addition to having to supply their own health insurance. So they would have to supply health insurance for their employees, 13,000, and then pay a $24 million fine on top of it. Again, under the religious freedom exemption --

PERINO: Or not provide health insurance at all.

BOLLING: Or not provide it, which would be the worst of all.

PERINO: Which is what they said would have violated their conscience as well.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, I'm going to let you respond, and then --



BRIAN KILMEADE, GUEST CO-HOST: I'm playing the role of Greg Gutfeld. But go ahead, Bob.

BECKEL: I'm going to do the best under my own physical restraints. But this is not about the Hobby -- the family, rather. It's about 16,000 employees. They're the ones being discriminated against here. You mean to tell me the 16,000 employees, that every one of them has the same views that they do about abortion? I don't believe that for a second.

The fact of the matter is if you start allowing corporations to pick and choose, as it was said -- Charles said it was right, and I said it yesterday. You're going to pick and choose, if don't like gay people? You're not going to allow for HIV drugs? I mean, where does it stop? And it's a very good point.

How a couple people in a family hold up the rights of 16,000 people that work for them?

BOLLING: Can I just throw -- Brian is going to get in here, but the difference again, the IUD and morning after pill, which is killing a live being after it's been conceived. That's the difference.

BECKEL: That's what they believe. Maybe what you believe, maybe what you believe, but it's not what the law says. And the people who are 16,000 of them, may want --

PERINO: Actually, that doesn't matter what the law says. It gets back to the narrow question about this entity, a corporation, because religious nonprofits and others who have the same concern that Hobby Lobby has, have been given an exemption by the ObamaCare. Why shouldn't the exemption extend to people like the ones who run Hobby Lobby?

BECKEL: Religious nonprofits, correct? I mean, the Catholic charities and things like that -- this is a corporation that makes a lot of money.

GUILFOYLE: It's almost like equal protection issue, because why are you affording exemptions for some, but it appears on the face to be discriminatory.

BECKEL: Because it's religious groups who asked for the exemption, and they got it.

GUILFOYLE: Explain it for us, Brian.

KILMEADE: I'm going to just take a different angle on this, but I think you guys went over it pretty well. Thirty-six exemptions so far roughly, so this is 37. I think Barbara Boxer's argument is interesting for a non-law student. So, please correct me if this sounds ignorant.


KILMEADE: But she came out and said, well, what is going on? Why don't more people complain about men getting Viagra? Why isn't that?

Well, I think there's an obvious difference right now. Number one, I hear, I don't know, but Viagra I don't think is covered by most plans. I'm not sure.

BECKEL: Certainly not mine.

KILMEADE: One is focusing on performance, the other is talking about conception. Number two is, it comes down to the vote. So, who is sold?

I think it's fascinating to say Justice Kennedy is leaning for the companies, the Supreme Court watchers. No one will ever predict what Roberts is going to do after the last time. But you do have Alito was pretty clear and Scalia who's pretty clear. Ginsburg, Kagan and Sotomayor are pretty clear.

So, it's really going to come down to maybe even Justice Breyer, what Roberts you think will do.

GUILFOYLE: I think Hobby Lobby is going to prevail.

KILMEADE: Yes. So, in the end, and we're going to wait until June, right?

BECKEL: Those 36 exemptions, how many were profiting corporations? None.

KILMEADE: That just gives you an example of what's happening --

BECKEL: You're lumping a profit-making corporation in with religious groups.

BOLLING: No, no, no, he's saying there are waivers, unions getting waivers, exemptions, they're getting delays. There are states, whole states asking for delays. Why shouldn't a company as opposed to a nonprofit, why shouldn't they be afforded the same --


BECKEL: Going back to what Dana said originally, this is about a law that was passed that was able to protect your religious rights. And no law could infringe upon them. Well, the fact is, it's infringing upon the owners of this company, and they're saying therefore, all 16,000 of us are infringed upon.

PERINO: Well, I think also it's clear and I think the justices have a little -- they might have to look at the long run in terms of what slippery slope this could provide in the future. However, Hobby Lobby does provide for the coverage of 16 different types of contraception. It is four out of the 20 that are available that they have an objection to, and that's actually been something that after the Hyde Amendment was very much agreed to that taxpayer dollars should not be spent to kill a baby, if that's what you believe. That's how they have dealt with that in the public sector. So now this is a question on the corporation side.

GUILFOYLE: Dana is right, though. This is a narrowly tailored case. This is a perfect case to go before the Supreme Court, and I think that's why it was taken up because they're not being unreasonable.

They're not being discriminatory. They're not saying you can't we won't pay for contraception. They're being very specific as to those that would terminate a conception.

BECKEL: It's a very different -- a very big difference between contraceptives that prevent pregnancy and those that terminate pregnancy pills afterwards.

PERINO: But that's what we're saying.

BOLLING: That's the only thing they're arguing, Bob, is the IUD and morning after --

BECKEL: What I'm saying, if there's a woman in that, I don't happen to agree with that. But if there's a woman in the 16,000 who wants to have an abortion and doesn't want to wait until the end and is not going to get paid for it anyway, why not get it done without six weeks?

BOLLING: So, Bob, if they're required -- let's just take this logically for a second. If Hobby Lobby is, in fact, required to provide health insurance that a woman could get an IUD or a morning after pill after conception --

BECKEL: Not the morning after pill, but that's all right.

BOLLING: Plan B, whatever you want to call it.

BECKEL: Right, OK.

BOLLING: Call it what you want to call, and terminate a pregnancy, aren't they in fact -- isn't ObamaCare in fact paying for abortions in America?

BECKEL: If you're saying that by discriminating against a certain class of drugs in the contraceptive world --

BOLLING: No, when they take this stuff, they take this pill after they have conceived.

BECKEL: Listen, you and I may believe that life begins at inception. In many people's cases, they don't believe that.

Now, if you believe these pills, there's a series of them, they take five or six pills to terminate a pregnancy afterwards, when they have determined they're pregnant, right? And the morning after pill, by the way, means you can't get pregnant. That's the difference.

So, this other pills --


PERINO: Whoa, whoa, whoa --



GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: Let's stay on the big picture right here. They take the contraceptives after the pregnancy has occurred. Therefore, if Hobby Lobby is paying for this pill, they're paying for an abortion, are they not? If Supreme Court is mandating Obama, they're literally saying ObamaCare has to pay for abortions.

BECKEL: You just extended the definition of abortion well beyond the Hyde Amendment.

PERINO: But interestingly, the solicitor general was asked a similar question yesterday by Chief Justice Roberts, and really wasn't prepared to answer it. I'm not sure why because that's how I have always understood at the bottom of this of that's what this comes down to.

But, Kimberly, I'm going to get to the 30,000 level. And that is the question and role of government in the corporation's existence.

And now, a corporation can be held to account for liability, we just saw that last week with Toyota. You might see it with additional companies. But companies can be held to account for actions, and so therefore, cannot a company then appeal to the government to say that the government is overreaching?

It's a bigger, broader question of the government, which is why I think so many people are interested in it.

BECKEL: Well, if question scientists owned a corporation, they say these people were Christian scientists, who do not believe in a lot of medical care, then, in fact, in some cases they don't believe in using drugs at all, if they owned these companies, that means all -- they could say on religious grounds, none of the vaccinations or other things that the Christians --

PERINO: If they brought a claim under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and were allowed standing by the court, yes, you could get to that point.

BOLLING: What about "Science Monitor", what about that?

BECKEL: What about it?

BOLLING: It's a newspaper that they own. It's a media that they own.

BECKEL: And their employees --

BOLLING: I don't know what the ruling is. They're probably waiting to see how Hobby Lobby is ruled on.

BECKEL: What I'm interested here is you're talking about a family of people -- I have very strong convictions. I don't deny that. But they are essentially saying our views are going to be imposed on these 16,000 employees.

PERINO: No, they're actually saying the government's views are being imposed on an individual. And that is where the rub is.

KILMEADE: Right. And the thing is, too, for those 16,000, if they don't like what the company offers or does, we see people move because of benefits on a regular basis. They could say Hobby Lobby is not for me. I don't like the benefits, I don't agree with what they're saying, but 16,000 for the most part are happy to be there, I imagine.

PERINO: It's also a good reason, Bob, you would argue a single-payer program where the government takes care of everyone's insurance would be good. You could argue with the other way, which is that let's just do away with the whole employer sponsored thing anyway, let people buy it on the open market and everyone can make a decision. We won't even have to have this conversation anymore.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Let's take it around real quick. Predictions on how we think the court is going to rule on this very pivotal decision, Bolling? I'm afraid, I think Brian can outline that.

I think it comes down to Roberts. And we know how he decided to ObamaCare. I'm worried he's going to rule in favor of the ObamaCare mandate for Hobby Lobby and they lose.

PERINO: Reading Justice Roberts' line of questioning yesterday, I don't think so. I think this will lose, that the government will lose.

GUILFOYLE: Hobby Lobby prevails? Brian, do you agree?

KILMEADE: I see the company prevailing. I mean, just on pure numbers of the situation. I think the way everyone is ruling, the so-called Supreme Court experts who observe, who don't seem to have a horse in the race, seem to think that they're going to be back, the company is going to be back.


BECKEL: It's going to be a 5-4 decision no matter how you look at it, and the five -- the question is Roberts is the key, and Roberts, I think, is trying to make himself whole on what he did when he made a decision about taxes. So, I think he's going to go the other way so he doesn't get beat up.

PERINO: No, I think he doesn't care about those things. I think Justice Roberts makes a decision. He's like an umpire, he calls balls and strikes. And he -- that's why we have Supreme Court justices for life. They aren't subject to the whims of politics and people's opinions.


BECKEL: You say the Supreme Court is not affected?

PERINO: I don't think so. I don't think they are.

BOLLING: You know, what this does prove, what he did when he ruled ObamaCare, that law a tax, he opened up so many cans of worms. These fights are just beginning to start. He's going to load up his own court because of the one ruling he made, and in a lot of people's opinions on the right, it was an improper ruling, first time.

GUILFOYLE: Let's see what happens. Brian you said, I agree. We'll see.

BECKEL: Where did they come up with that name? Hobby Lobby?

KILMEADE: You know exactly what the place is.

BECKEL: It's a hobby place, right?


BECKEL: Oh, gee!

KILMEADE: That's all you need.

GUILFOYLE: Bob figures it out.

All right.

BECKEL: I see.

GUILFOYLE: Ahead, there has been a ruling today that could change college sports forever. We've got the verdict to make sure to stay tuned for that.

And up next, the rules of ObamaCare are changing yet again, and the administration is again going back on its word. Details coming up on THE FIVE.

Stay with us.


PERINO: All right. You know that March 31st deadline to enroll in ObamaCare, the one the White House kept saying was not going to get pushed?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you or will you not delay the individual enrollment deadline on any other aspect of ObamaCare?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: The enrollment deadline will not be delayed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there going to be any kind of grace period at all if people are having trouble with the Web site on that last day?

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: March 31st is the deadline for enrollment. You heard us make that clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you rule out the idea that the president doesn't delay the individual mandate?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can? That will not happen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That will not happen.


PERINO: And that was last week. The administration just extended the time for Americans to enroll until the middle of April. And in case you're counting, this is the 36th delay or alteration to the law.

Here is Speaker Boehner on the announcement.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: What the hell is this, a joke? Dates are the dates and the law is the law. The president doesn't have the ability to just change the law whenever he wants. I've got to live by the law, you've got to live by the law, the American people have to live by the law, and guess what? The president needs to live by the law as well.


PERINO: I love an unscripted John Boehner.

OK, Eric Bolling, do the companies that are having to administer this and get it going, would they want the extension?

BOLLING: Look, let's just -- can we take a step back? So, first, there are the delays, then there were waivers, then there were the employer mandate delays and then 37 other delays. Then they couldn't figure out if they need 5 million, 6 million, or 7 million enrollees to make it work. And then it could make the darn thing work.

At some point, at some point, Democrats have to say this is so bad for us, we just need to scrap this thing. We just need to run far, far away from it because the hits keep coming.

You can press a button and say, guess what? I need two more weeks before I decide?

KILMEADE: And it's the honor system to see if your excuse is valid. So, my excuse is I tried to logon, I clicked the blue box, it didn't work for me. I have three weeks or the middle of April to decide if I want a delay.

So, now, you go on this box, you click on the blue box and go, I'm exhausted, my car has a flat tire, it wouldn't start. There was an avalanche, there was a tornado, I couldn't finish the job, I have ADD, I couldn't finish signing up. So I've got two more weeks to pretend to sign up. At which time, we will find out if the blue box --

BECKEL: Listen, I do have ADD, and even follow you --


BECKEL: It's ridiculous. Anytime they make a change here, it's to try to get more people to sign up. That's the right thing, that's the idea here.

PERINO: Bob, do they have no shame?

BECKEL: Why should you have shame if you get people to sign up.

PERINO: No, when they say -- they promise it's not going to be delayed. They testified under oath that it will not be delayed.

Do you realize the Democrats have lost all trust with the American people based on their willingness to lie about it?

BECKEL: No, because a majority of American people want a form of ObamaCare fixed. It's what they say, fixed.

PERINO: Right, and that's not what they're getting.

BECKEL: Well, by making some of these changes --


BECKEL: What is wrong? If somebody says, you say the honor system somebody doesn't get -- say he's lying about it, but if that person gets a chance to get insured, why not? Who cares?

KILMEADE: You know, I'm going to call the IRS, on my honor, I was very busy.


KILMEADE: Was I being able to do an extension? Honor system, I am a Webelos in the Cub Scouts, I don't lie.

PERINO: And they can't blame themselves. They can't take any responsibility.

Today, Senator Harry Reid in the press conference, which was a doozy, you got to see it. It was like the worse press conference I've ever seen. He basically said the American public is not smart enough, that they're too stupid to use the Internet, yet they can buy everything online. They just can't buy ObamaCare. It doesn't make any sense.

GUILFOYLE: It's so insulting.

KILMEADE: In the end, they elected me, they have to be stupid?

GUILFOYLE: No, but the point is, they don't seem to care. Whatever it takes to get the numbers, so we don't have (INAUDIBLE). We don't care if it works, we don't care if people lose their insurances, we don't care if they (INAUDIBLE) if they pay more money. We just need to get bodies in --

BECKEL: Those of you who are opposed to ObamaCare, what you care about is they don't have the numbers. And that's the difference here.

GUILFOYLE: No, I want it to work right.

BECKEL: Why should you care? If somebody has a chance --

GUILFOYLE: That's not true. That's wrong.

BOLLING: You are doing, you are sucked --


BECKEL: You are into this because you can't stand this bill.

BOLLING: No, right. It's terrible. It's going to cost American families more.

BECKEL: Yes, we've heard all those hard stories.

BOLLING: Hold on, you are being sucked in by the rest of the Democrats, because you know what's going to --

GUILFOYLE: The liberal vortex.


BOLLING: And all they're doing is they're trying to buy time to get through 2014.


BOLLING: That's all they're doing, between 2014 and 2016, you're going to find out exactly what this law is doing. What it's end up doing is it's not bending the cost curve down for health care. It's bending it up. It's going to cost the American public trillions upon trillions of dollars. You guys are so screwed from 2015 on --


BECKEL: -- hearing this from the Republican Party who figures a way to lose. If you're right, we lose the Senate, we lose the White House, you still don't have the votes to change that bill.

BOLLING: Yes, you do.

BECKEL: No, you don't.


PERINO: You could change it, but I also think it's that why people are so upset because the administration is making such a hack of this policy.

BECKEL: I'm sorry, you just said something that's very important. People need to understand, if we retain the House as Republicans, you win the Senate and you get the White House, all you need is a majority. Remember, Harry Reid --


BECKEL: -- that was a simple majority for people who were going to get appointed.

PERINO: I didn't -- no, that's OK. We have to go. I want to get to the battleground poll. We might save that for tomorrow.

OK, much more ahead on THE FIVE in a moment, but before we do, Shep Smith has some breaking news on the Washington mudslide form the FOX News deck -- Shep.

SHEPARD SMITH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Three stories breaking, Dana.

First, the mudslide, the governor of Washington has spoken in the last 15 or 20 minutes and say we can expect the death toll to rise significantly, 176 people still missing. They have not recovered anyone from that mound of mud alive for four days.

Then, there's Boston, a big fire in the Back Bay, right behind Fenway Park. We now know some 10, believed to be firefighters, all transported to hospitals. A very serious fire in Boston's Back Bay.

And also in Boston in the last 20 minutes, we've gotten this TwitPic in -- a car has jumped a curb at Boston Logan Airport, terminal C. At least three people injured. Updates when we get them from the FOX News deck.

THE FIVE is back after this.


BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody, to the much anticipated fastest seven. Three alluring stories, seven accelerated minutes, one assiduous host.

Sound the alarm, folks, to the 2014 election season has begun, and political ads are a game changer. Good ones win elections, bad ones fail good candidates. Here's one of my favorites from Joni Ernst, the GOP Senate hopeful from the Hawkeye State.


JONI ERNST (R), IOWA SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm Joni Ernst. I grew up castrating hogs on an Iowa farm, so when I get to Washington, I'll know how to cut pork.

NARRATOR: Joni Ernst, mother, soldier, conservative.

ERNST: My parents taught us to live within our means. It's time to force Washington to do the same. To cut wasteful spending, repeal ObamaCare, and balance the budget.

I'M Joni Ernst and I approve this message, because Washington is full of big spenders. Let's make them squeal.


BOLLING: There you go. Dana --



BOLLING: You're unfair.

PERINO: I thought she was going to say that Washington is full of you-know-what, but I love the ad. I think she's -- I had not heard of her before. I think it's admirable that people want to run for office, anyway, but when they can get out there and really shine, and I thought she was fantastic. I hope she gets to Congress.

KILMEADE: She's among six candidates running for the nomination of a party, the Republicans. I'm just wondering because I'm not a farmer, why would you castrate a hog if you wanted more hogs. If you didn't have to run to town for new hogs --

PERINO: They're going to go to slaughter. Because it's going to go to slaughter.

KILMEADE: But don't you want it to have more hogs before you slaughter them?

PERINO: You can't have -- not all hogs will be having you-know-what with all the other pigs.


BOLLING: I've got to bring this around. Let's bring it around.

Hey, Bob, Sarah Palin within a few hours of this ad going live, sent a message saying, "Send this Midwest mama grizzly roaring to Washington on her Harley."

BLITZER: Yes. Did Sarah say -- by the way, I castrated a moose in Alaska?

I mean, I think it's a good ad. I give her credit. It's an attention-grabbing ad. It will separate her out from the rest of the pack. If you could do that to hogs, you could probably --


BOLLING: Work in Congress.

GUILFOYLE: I like her. I like her spunk. I like her vest, I'm feeling it. I think that's what we need more of, honestly.

BOLLING: Very quickly, mother, soldier, lieutenant colonel, Iowa National Guard, conservative, et cetera.

On Friday, the movie "Noah" will be released and likely crush it at the box office. The movie has come under intense scrutiny from religious groups who say the film has little or no ties to the Bible.

Russell Crowe got fired up this morning on "GMA" defending "Noah". Watch.


RUSSELL CROWE, ACTOR: We have had probably over a year now of very harsh criticism from a bunch of people who have put their name and stamp on an opinion that's not even based on the movie or seeing the movie, just an assumption of how it could be, or how bad it could be or how wrong it could be in their eyes, you know, which, quite frankly, I think is bordering on absolute stupidity.


BOLLING: Your thoughts, Bob?

BECKEL: Well, first of all, if you're going to name a movie "Noah" and it is clear in the Bible what that story is about, and you change the story, you're going to get criticized.

So, I mean, you can call people stupid for saying that, my boy, but the fact of the matter is you took something that was in the Bible, a very serious story, and you changed it. So that's what you're going to get.

BOLLING: I'm going to take the other side, K.G.


BOLLING: It's entertainment for me. I go to church every single day at St. Patrick's, as Christian as they come, but I want to see it for the entertainment value.

GUILFOYLE: Why not? But why can't you go see it for all different reasons? I mean, go and get whatever you can out of it. Maybe you enjoy it. Maybe it makes you think about reading the bible or reading more about the story or anything like that. Why does it have to have a specific purpose in order to be validated?

BOLLING: Yes. Brian, your thoughts?

KILMEADE: My thoughts is this -- I got to see it. So, I'm not going to say this, or that, but I will say this -- Mark Burnett.


KILMEADE: I cannot wait to interrupt, even uninvited. With Gutfeld in this chair, I'm going to come running in and give you my review. So, I'm not going to say bad or good. I will say that if you want a formula for success, Mark Burnett showed it to you, stick to the script.

And you could set all types of records. Mel Gibson showed you how to do it.

BECKEL: That's right.

KILMEADE: Stick to the script and get the great box office. Russell Crowe is awesome. He wouldn't drop the ball for you. Stick to the thing that's not going to alienate people.

BOLLING: OK, Dana, break the tie.

PERINO: Well, I don't think -- OK, I don't think I'm going to go see it because my memories of the story of Noah are very different. I had a children's bible when I was a kid and it had all these illustrations in it. Noah's story for me at the end was really happy, right? You had the two animals walking side by side, and then you had the rainbow, and the dove comes and then the sun coming up, everybody lives happily ever after.

BOLLING: Don't give away the end of this one.

All right. Everybody talks about celebrity break-ups, look at the covers of the magazines the next time you're in the check-outline at the supermarket. The bigger the celebrities, the bigger the break-up. Take a split between a beautiful Oscar winner and a front man for an immensely popular band.

Big tabloid news: Gwyneth Paltrow and Coldplay's Chris Martin are splitsville.

K.G., they're actually calling themselves conscious uncoupling right now.

GUILFOYLE: Why didn't I think of that term? I could have used it a couple of times.

BECKEL: You can use it five times?

GUILFOYLE: Really, Bob? Twice.

Anyway, I mean, look, I feel bad for them because they have kids. I don't like to see anybody split up that has children, but if it has to be done, it can be done in the right way. And I wish them the best of luck. Co-parenting together in their unconscious --

BECKEL: Yes, I'm going to stay up all night long after this. I don't care. I don't know who this guy is. I never heard of --


PERINO: I think Kimberly is being generous. I will say, a lot of these couples make a ton of money based on their publicity, their marriage, like Kanye and Kim on the cover of "Vogue".

GUILFOYLE: Me and Bob.

PERINO: You know, in two years later, then they'll get a divorce.

And then there will be, oh, her story, and his story, and it goes on and on, and it's a way for them to make a lot of money, while the rest of us work on our marriages.

BOLLING: Apple, their daughter is 9 years old, and Moses is 7 years old.

GUTFELD: Right. So, I feel bad for the kids, but I will say this -- I also feel bad for the hit song that he wrote for her. Gwyneth Paltrow had was probably -- the name eludes me right now.

BOLLING: Paradise clocks --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, the one, I'll fix you.

KILMEADE: Yes. No, yes, I think that's one.


PERINO: The one where he whines?

KILMEADE: Every time he sings, he whines a lot, but he's very good. But every time he sings, he's going to think about the relationship that didn't work. That's what I'm going to think about when we hear it. Just I remember, Billy Joel sang a song, I like you just the way you are, and then he gets divorced from his wife, and he says, the better words are now, I want the house, the keys, the car.

BECKEL: Who, Coldplay?

GUILFOYLE: Coldplay.


BOLLING: That's a band.

All right. Coming up, breaking news that could revolutionize college sports. Brian has all the details, coming up next.


KILMEADE: This is Styx, am I correct? Thank you.

Hey, a landmark ruling just came down that could potentially revolutionize the state of college athletics. I'm not kidding.

Peter Orr, regional director of the National Labor Relations Board, has just cleared the way for Northwestern football players to form the nation's first college athletes union. Northwestern released a statement in response to the ruling saying that they respect the NLRB's process. They disagree with the regional director's decision.

And what does this mean?

Before we talk about are we en route to paying the players? Legally, Kimberly, is this a done deal?

GUILFOYLE: They've got a couple of pit stops before they can get this final. You've got at least two more levels. They've got appeals that they're going to be going up, because this is a huge decision. When you think about the impact, you think about the dollars behind this, it could be far reaching than, of course, other players will have claims from years past.

KILMEADE: Right. So, Eric, now we're at the point where we look at football and basketball. We see the tournament is going to start taking place on Friday. We have been watching the tournament, the billion dollar TV contracts and more. Is it time to pay the people that are putting on the show?

BOLLING: No, no. The players are being paid. They're getting an education.

KILMEADE: Seventy-five thousand dollars, tops.

BOLLING: They're setting themselves up for life. If they do -- look, this is what it comes down to. It's the NLRB once again looking for any reason to collective -- to toss out the collective bargaining chips to whoever.

Now, college athletes, you've got to be kidding me? Do you -- can you imagine what -- just take this one step further. A football team in the middle of summer doing doubles when it's hot, a player goes, you know what, this is against my labor board relations, here it is here, I have this document that said I can't run in 100-degree heat.


KILMEADE: I'm not worried about that point. But I'm worried about, are you going to have Auburn against Alabama and have it matter if they're f not forced to go to school, if they're not students?

BECKEL: Wait a second, let's try to put it in perspective here. We're talking about only those who get full ride scholarships for a football player. It's only football, and these are member -- it was college athletes players association. On behalf of this football team, of which 115 players, of which only 31 are considered under this determination.

So, what's the big deal?

BOLLING: Who tried to unionize them? Who is behind the whole unionizing point?

BECKEL: I don't know.

BOLLING: United Steelworkers.

BECKEL: Good for them.

BOLLING: United Steelworkers, you have a dog in that fight?


KILMEADE: Dana, you have an excellent point in terms of how you see it from the outside might be right on the money.

PERINO: I think that there's a distinction between college football and professional football for a reason. And if that reason no longer exists, if you're going to play the players, why don't they have like they have in baseball, a minor league? If they don't want to go to school and they don't want to get the benefit of room and board and education and tuition and all that, they could just try to make it in the minor league. If they're good enough, they can go to the pros.

KILMEADE: No one will go. If the second best, they're not going to go. No one goes to AAA games in proportion to Major League Baseball. No one would ever go to a Minor League Football game.

But here's a thing to keep in mind, I agree with you, the billion dollar contracts going to the coaches and universities are wrong, but if you go ahead and look at the ramifications of paying players, and it might be OK with you, it might be, goodbye tennis, goodbye gymnastics, goodbye soccer, goodbye all the minor sports team, because the football and basketball, a lot of times pay for everybody.

BECKEL: That's exactly right. These people -- these players that subsidize all of the other sports and some of the academics of that, and I don't understand. There's a lawsuit that the players won against video game players, recently won. They said you use my name and image and you have to pay.

KILMEADE: And they pulled them. They pulled it and they're not using it anymore. But the damage has been done. The name has been used.

BECKEL: That's right. These universities are playing off the names of big time players to make a lot of money.

BOLLING: Is it true President Obama thinks there should be a minimum wage for the field hockey team?

KILMEADE: I'm not sure --


GUILFOYLE: As long as they sign up for ObamaCare.

KILMEADE: All I can tell you, without burdening you with the legal aspects of it, it's the beginning of paying players. Now, we're going to go down to the process of how do you do it?

BECKEL: OK, but let's pay players. It's about time.

KILMEADE: All right, and Bob is being quick because he knows he's hosting the next segment.

GUILFOYLE: He wants a lot of time.


KILMEADE: Next up on our show, new leads by air and sea in the search for the Malaysian Flight 370. Stay tuned for an update you have not heard anywhere else.


BECKEL: New satellite images have revealed more than 100 objects in the Indian Ocean that could be debris from the missing Malaysian jet.


HISHAMMUDDIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIAN ACTING TRANSPORTATION MINISTER: We were able to identify 122 potential objects. Some objects were (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Others were as much as 23 meters in length. Some of the objects appeared to be bright, possibly indicating solid material.


BECKEL: It sounds like a big lead, but Australia's prime minister is cautiously optimistic.


TONY ABBOTT, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We don't know whether any of these objects are from MH-370. They could be flotsam. Nevertheless, we are hopeful that we can recover these objects soon and that they will take us a step closer to resolving this tragic mystery.


BECKEL: Well, he's being a little bit cautious here, but I think overly so. This is a part of the world that does not have shipping lanes. It's very deep. It's a very difficult place if you're looking for pieces. You've got 122 showing up. You probably think -- you probably -- this is about the best news they have seen so far. Not for the passengers' family, but for...

KILMEADE: So Bob, if they do -- if this is the plane and it did break up, there's still so many questions that need to be answered. No. 1, the big story today is a good friend of the pilot comes out and says, "My friend should not have been flying emotionally or mentally, because his wife says she's leaving him, and his girlfriend says she's leaving him. He's a mess."

BECKEL: That happened to me once, too.

KILMEADE: But if you do a suicide -- but if you're doing suicide and you didn't kill 239 people because you had a bad day. So -- which is to your credit. This guy seems to have done. Normal suicide, they'd just put it in the water. Why did he shut off everything and fly for seven hours?

GUILFOYLE: That's what I say. It doesn't make any sense.

KILMEADE: There's till things that don't make sense about it.

GUILFOYLE: Why would you do that?

BECKEL: My guess is that probably, Dana, it will be, forever, we're going to hear different conspiracies about this, and there will probably never be all the answers.

PERINO: Unless they could do a search where they find the black box, and then they can try to piece together like they did after that Egypt flight.

BECKEL: Does anyone know how deep the ocean is there?

BOLLING: Two miles. Two-plus miles. Twelve or 13,000 feet.

A couple of points, 122 objects. People are saying today, that could be fish. They don't know how many are actually, you know, big pieces of debris or if there's any debris, in fact. So there's so many questions. It's -- again, you have to get back and say a prayer for these poor families who keep on going -- they're up and down.

GUILFOYLE: The emotional roller coaster, yes. That's really tough.

BECKEL: I'm thinking about this.


BECKEL: And the families, in many ways, they don't want to have debris found, right? Because they're still holding onto that little hope that maybe this plane landed somewhere.

GUILFOYLE: Maybe it landed, maybe there are still survivors, and it could be their family member. Wouldn't you want to hold out for hope? If you get a horrible cancer diagnosis for a family member, you want to hear there's anything. You'd want to hear there's 10 percent. You don't want to hear "no chance."

So that's what they're holding onto, but this upheaval is just so difficult for them to go through. That's why we have to be so careful about what we report and what we think. Right now, we don't know.

KILMEADE: This is why I think we're going to get answers. Australia, the U.S., China, France, they're all the best of the best, using the best equipment we possibly could have to get it done.

No. 2 is, when you see China pressing the Malaysian government to be more candid and less callous, and maybe taking this thing over. These are mostly Chinese citizens. Where is their aggression? If this was us, we'd be in there saying, "Get out of here. You're not making any more announcements."

BOLLING: China? They're very callous themselves.

KILMEADE: Why doesn't China go in there?

BOLLING: ... pilots on their own.

KILMEADE: They seem to care. Will they, then, show some compassion for their people? And they've got to go in there and make the Malaysians be more -- a little bit transparent about this whole thing. Dana, two and a half weeks, never got any answers.

PERINO: You never know what's going on behind the scenes with China and how they're trying to pressure the Malaysians. I'm sure that the Malaysians will be, you know, the unwelcome step-brother that's at any of the Asian meetings in the future.

But also, I think if the Chinese want to continue to have business relations with Malaysia, that they will have to figure out a constructive role to try to help them so that they can get better at what they're doing, or just stop doing business with them all together.

BECKEL: You know, Brian, this is also the same country -- you say not callous. This is the same country that builds a dam and washes out homes for a million people. I mean, I'm not so sure the Chinese are all that sympathetic about this. I think they'd rather have it go away.

KILMEADE: I think they want answers.

BOLLING: There's one other piece and you may not get it for years and years. That one black box was found nine years after a plane crash. And you'll never know exactly what took that plane down, even if you find out where it is, until you get those black boxes.

But think about this: There's $300 million at stake.


BOLLING: Three hundred, between the plane's value and the response -- you get paid out for loved ones perishing in a flight, but you have to find out who is responsible.

BECKEL: Then the lawsuits will take (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

"One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Is it getting cold in here?


GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." Dana Perino.

PERINO: So earlier today, I was watching Shepherd's show at 3 p.m., and I was just riveted by an interview that he had with a woman who is named Nicole Webb Rivera. You're going to hear from her in just a second. Let me just set this up. She lost -- she believes she lost four family members in the Washington state mudslide. She was so incredibly poised, and it was very moving. Take a look.


NICOLE WEBB RIVERA, BELIEVES HER FAMILY MEMBERS LOST IN MUDSLIDE: I would like them to know that my dad was a Vietnam vet. He was the most brilliant man I've ever known.

My mother was beautiful; talented artist with the most amazing sense of humor. She was the funniest person I've ever met.

My beautiful daughter had the sweetest heart, and she was -- she was my baby. I really am going to miss her.

And her fiance Allen (ph) is like a picture postcard of the perfect man.


PERINO: One of the most compelling interviews I've seen in a long time. She's a quilter and she said that, in the quilting community, they started a thing called to help her raise money to bury her loved ones. She's raised enough money that she can help others pay for the burials of theirs, as well. So I thought she was amazing. Shep had a great interview.

GUILFOYLE: Very moving and thank you for bringing that up. OK, Bob.

BECKEL: I had to fight Eric because he wanted to do it, too, but I won out. And I want to say, on behalf of all "The Five," happy birthday, Nancy Pelosi. You turn 74 today, and you have been a great former speaker. You're a great member of Congress, and all of us on "The Five" -- I'm sure Eric included -- wish you a very happy birthday.

PERINO: No cake?

BECKEL: No, I would be worried what would happen to it if we brought it out here.

BOLLING: Former speaker, want to underline those two words. Former speaker.

GUILFOYLE: I would eat the cake. The pizza-cookie cake was good.

OK, so I'm up next. And my Puerto Rican sister from another mother, J. Lo. So we're in the green room. This is like secrets of the green room. Right? Dana and I are hanging out before the show, and Dana's like, "Did you hear that J. Lo song? It's so stupid? She's singing, "Hey, puppy, I love you, puppy."

And then I'm like, "What?" And then I'm like, "What are you talking about? It's papi. Take a listen."




GUILFOYLE: She wasn't singing about jasper.

BECKEL: Thought it was a pet song.

PERINO: Kimberly said I was the whitest white girl she's ever met. Which I'm not sure it was a compliment.

GUILFOYLE: It's very precious.

BECKEL: It's your turn, Papi.

BOLLING: All right. You want to know why we're kind of screwed in America? American University in Washington, D.C., Dana tells me, is a very good university, well-known for its political science group. Look what happened when these people were asked about their senators and then keep watching.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you name one person currently serving in the United States Senate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God, this is bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to take a guess?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you name one person currently serving in the United States Senate?



What is the name of the hit song from the movie "Frozen"?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the name of the hit song from the movie "Frozen"?




GUILFOYLE: What does it tell you?

BOLLING: We're in big trouble.

BECKEL: Unbelievable.

BOLLING: We're in big trouble.

GUILFOYLE: As long as they sign up for Obama care, it's fine. Everything is awesome.

KILMEADE: That is very upsetting, but here is something that will make you feel good. Talk about heroism. And this is like a movie. This is something Arnold Schwarzenegger would try to script together.

Let's go out to Houston, Texas, where we see Karen Jones next door to a building, taping this scene. There's a man on a ledge, who was trying to put a fire out. He's a worker there, on top of a -- on top of the roof.

When the fire got out of control, he didn't know what to do. He tried to get to the lower patio, realizing there's little time. But the patio is right underneath the top patio. So he's got to swing, like a genius, to that second patio.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

KILMEADE: But he's still not out of trouble.

Meanwhile, the fire department put the ladder as close as possible, but still he had to leap onto the ladder. But he's still not out of the woods yet. You'll see, again, the top of the building gradually fall apart. And it's just unbelievable. Everybody is OK, but the building is in ashes.

GUILFOYLE: That's it.

PERINO: What, "FOX & Friends..."

GUILFOYLE: Great play by play.

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