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The Five

Best way to help young, struggling minorities in America?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 27, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City. And this is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

GUILFOYLE: What is the best way to help young struggling minorities in America? Well, today President Obama unveiled the details of a new initiative called My Brother's Keeper, which he hinted about at the State of the Union Address.

It's aimed at improving the odds of a better life for young men of color.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The government cannot play the only or even the primary role. We can help give every child access to quality pre-school and help them start learning from an early age, but we can't replace the power of a parent who is reading to that child. We can reform our criminal justice system to ensure that it's not infected with bias. But nothing keeps a young man out of trouble like a father who takes an active role in his son's life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Bill O'Reilly was at the event, and he's talked a lot about challenges in African-American communities, and here's Bill's take on the Keeper initiative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: It's long past time for America to join together and help the kids. Put yourself in their position. Millions of children are born into chaotic homes where their parents are irresponsible or absent.

Bringing children into the world when you can't support them is stupid and cruel. This message should be drummed into every American, should be done in school, public school, private school. It should be done in the media, and it should be done by the president.

Many Americans object to making judgments about behavior. That attitude is leading to disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, the guidelines are you should be reading 15 minutes a day, nighttime bedtime stories to your children.

Greg, you had a funny comment and --

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: No, I'm not allowed to read to children because of the subjects I often like to enjoy.

But actually this is great. I mean, he's a conservative. Suddenly, he's a conservative now.

GUILFOYLE: How long will it last?

GUTFELD: The interesting thing though is when Thomas Sowell said something like this, it's often mocked. But when President Obama says that it's great -- I think it's fantastic that he's doing this. I think it's important that he does it.

The important thing is you have to examine why it's gotten so bad over the past decade, and if you don't address what I would think is a major problem, which is white guilt, which is in a sense preserved and accelerated destructive behaviors and created in my mind a new kind of racism, it's the racism in which you believe that a group of people cannot handle hard truths, that we are afraid to say that these behaviors need to change because we don't want to hurt feelings or be seen as racist. That's one of the root causes of this problem, and it's good that he addresses this stuff, and I think it's a positive thing, right? I guess.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, you're nodding your head like yes in agreement. You like this?

(CROSSTALK)

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I agree on a lot of that. I think Bill O'Reilly is kind of right with the family issue. There's no question when the families start to fall apart things go bad. Black families have a higher rate of that.

But here are the numbers, all right. Let's start with education -- 23 percent of children, of all children, get -- of all the children that get pre-K are black. Less than half of all black children get pre-K, so it starts very early.

And what happens is as they get older, black children do poorer and poorer versus white and Asian and even Hispanic children, and it just continues to go, so there's an education gap that happens. Then, the unemployment gap happens because the education -- they are falling behind in education. Unemployment numbers for black kids are so much higher than everyone else. And then the third one, and the most damaging thing is the household income and the net worth of black families is far below whites, Asians and Hispanics.

And it all starts, and I think President Barack Obama and Bill O'Reilly are right on this, it all starts with that pre-K education. You start offering pre-K to more kids, black, white, Hispanics, Asian, I think America is going to be a better play.

GUILFOYLE: Well, de Blasio, that's his idea here that he wants to put forward in New York. So, it's interesting, you found a point of agreement with him.

Dana, this is a great idea. Have we seen people tried to do it before? You know, what are your thoughts?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Sure, there's been initiatives that -- well, there's been initiatives like this before, but I think this one is different because he's the first black president and people have been asking when, Mr. President, are you going to be able to try to help us to help them?

A president can be a very good convener of things, so if you think of President George H.W. Bush's Thousand Points of Lights, that is actually still going. It's been a sustainable program. Freedom Corps is something President George W. Bush put together and the faith-based initiative which actually has not really been sustained under the Obama administration.

A key to a program like this, maintaining support in the American public's mind is the measurable results that you can see over a long term. This will get a lot of attention today and then, you know, four days from now, nobody will talk about this again.

So, it's up to the White House to continue to make the case for it because there will be funds, taxpayer dollars, spent to help facilitate the president's program and people will want to know if there are results. If there are results people are willing to pay for these types of thing.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Bob, is he going to be able -- it's a great idea. Everybody is saying. I would have liked to see it last term. It's here now. That's the positive aspect of it.

When Dana talks about result, is it going to be a quick enough time frame to turn it around so that this can be part of the legacy of his second term?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: You know, first of all --

GUILFOYLE: But to show some kind of measurable result?

BECKEL: I kind of got a shock sitting at this table and not hearing Obama get beat up in the first four people before I speak and I'm delighted to hear that. And thank you.

PERINO: Well, maybe we have principles.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Whoa --

PERINO: Well, I'm just saying. You know, if you're a principled person, you can support someone no matter what their politics are.

GUILFOYLE: There goes pot roast Sunday. Things were going so well. I could smell the pot roast and now it's over.

BECKEL: You know, a similar situation happened. Remember the Million Man March?

GUILFOYLE: Sure, 1995.

BECKEL: There were a lot -- a lot of initiatives came out of that, and in places around the country where the Million Man March followed through, it's done quite well. It hasn't been nationwide, but in areas, Colorado is one of them, and so I think -- and that was Louis Farrakhan, remember how that drove everyone crazy, but there were a million men there.

And I think the question about Eric's numbers are exactly right. But what's missing here is the heads of most of the households are women. There are no -- there are no men, even if there were more jobs, that's the thing that worries me.

Thank God for grandmothers is all I can say is because a lot of them are taking a role in raising a lot of these children.

GUILFOYLE: So true.

BECKEL: Now, you have a situation where you have black women graduating from college in far larger numbers than black men. You and I had this discussion at one point. It's very difficult for black college graduate women to find husbands, you know?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: And this is going to touch on what you're saying, Bob, and also what Greg said. You can't place the blame on white or black here because it really -- it's not that. A lot of people are saying, well, because they are black they are at a disadvantage to white students -- no. Or disadvantaged to white applicants to the college they want to get into - - no. Or disadvantaged to the job they want. That's not the issue.

BECKEL: At a disadvantage?

BOLLING: No, I'm saying -- what -- if you start early, if you start at pre-K and emphasize education at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, you're going to send black kids who are performing under whites and Asians and Hispanics into the same competitive circles as those kids for the next -- for the better high schools, for the better colleges, for the better jobs when they get out. It has nothing to do with race, Bob.

But the left seems to want to say, you know, because they are black they are underprivileged or because they grew up in this neighborhood they don't have the same opportunity. That's not the case. That's not what numbers bear out.

BECKEL: Those early education is paid for by the federal government. So, you're the one who thought it was a bad idea, I thought.

BOLLING: Said what? Wait, hold on.

BECKEL: I thought when I talked about Head Start and early education, you thought that was government intervention.

BOLLING: I don't think I ever mentioned Head Start.

BECKEL: I apologized.

PERINO: I think we have. I think that because there's multiple studies done that say the results are not there when it comes to Head Start, which is one of the problems that de Blasio is having getting support for his programs.

I don't disagree in terms of getting that kind of education but the government-funded Head Start has not been the panacea that people make it out to be.

BECKEL: Not in every area.

GUILFOYLE: Such a good word.

GUTFELD: And I've got to say, college is not the solution for this, when you're having problems in high school. A lot of times when you make it easier for people to get into college, it's a bad thing because they end up dropping out because it's -- they are not ready for it.

GUILFOYLE: They are not prepared.

GUTFELD: I think President Obama said he'd be looking at public and private programs. I can't think really, I'm sorry, of a really strong public program. The best private program is a job and the challenge here is to rescue a generation of people who have formed a belief that work is for suckers.

We're living in a world where both pop culture thrives off decline, where people are told they don't have to work, that things are easy, and I think that's -- that's a big problem.

BOLLING: And, you know, I've long said that a lot of this was our fault and that when we decided to do the great society programs, we did a generation -- two or three generations of dependant people.

But having said that, I do think when you say -- if you do get early childhood education, they do have a much better chance at it.

But again, when you talk about college, one of the groups that I used to represent were there as this announcement, the trade schools.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BECKEL: Trade schools do some --

GUILFOYLE: I think they are great.

BECKEL: -- very good money. ITT is one of the best trade schools in the world, the people who teach airline mechanics. It's a little -- it costs a little bit of money, can get student loans for them and there's a big demand for them, but everybody thinks you need to go to an Ivy League college with all those commie professors.

GUILFOYLE: How about getting a job?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: How about getting a job? How about getting a job because you have a certain skill set that's going to lead to improving your life?

GUTFELD: The Mike Rowe school of thought.

GUILFOYLE: Dana?

PERINO: Can I add something? Obviously, I think jobs are important. But I do think that in the early childhood life, that one of the most important things, in addition to education, is to have a supportive church community that you're a part of, and in particular, black churches have been the driving force of a lot of stability and also an ability to have a faith that can sustain you into the future.

It was one of the thoughts behind the faith-based initiative was to try to get monies into the hands of programs that actually work because government is not able to love somebody and to help with the single moms that are trying to raise these children with the churches --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: At the community level, you know?

PERINO: They really can, and that's one of the reasons I think that charter schools for one, but also religious schools, in particular, the Catholic schools, deserve more of our support because they are actually able to turn lives around.

GUILFOYLE: Our Lady of Mercy Grammer School, Mercy High School, amen to that, Dana.

PERINO: Amen.

GUILFOYLE: Ahead on "The Five": The stars were out in Washington yesterday, actors Ben Affleck and Seth Rogen visited the Senate to raise awareness for their causes. Rogen's testimony got a lot of laughs and you got to see what happened at the photo-op that Affleck did with Secretary of State John Kerry beforehand, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Welcome back to the fastest seven, everybody. Today, three enticing stories, seven energetic minutes, one very effusive home.

First up, very liberal professor Jonathan Turley says very liberal President Barack Obama has pushed America towards a very dangerous end.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN TURLEY, LAW PROFESSOR: I believe we're now at a constitutional tipping point in our system. It's a dangerous point for our system to be in, and I believe that your response has to begin before this president leaves office. No one in our system goes it alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So, Bob, you laugh, huff and puff when I suggest Obama is circumventing Congress kind of like a king rather than an elected official, but now do you believe the opinion of a law professor?

BECKEL: I haven't laughed -- I huff and puff about most everything. But I mean --

GUILFOYLE: I'll see.

BECKEL: On this one, as I said, I thought he went too far on the Affordable Care Act, and I think there are other things, but what I said is they --

BOLLING: What?

PERINO: Realign.

BOLLING: What happened for the last two years? What?

BECKEL: They didn't have all these executive orders as far as I know, the big one, the mandate.

Here's the point -- they do have the executive orders, then they ought to be challenged in court. The courts -- who is going to decide, the Supreme Court, right?

BOLLING: Yes.

BECKEL: OK.

BOLLING: I'm trying to figure out really. Dana, help me out here.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think that he's not -- I think he might be talking about apples and oranges or apples and like potatoes.

BOLLING: Kiwi fruit.

PERINO: Maybe not even fruit.

BOLLING: And Jonathan Turley, Dana, says, or Kimberly, the president may have exceeded his authority. He may be just basically eliminating the whole legislative branch.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, that's what's happening, and nothing is going to happen while Eric Holder -- by the way, on a nice personal note. Eric Holder was in the hospital today. I hope he feels better, but please take some time off.

Is that nice?

BOLLING: That was very nice.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he has exceeded his constitutional authority and seems to want to circumvent the constitutional authority of other branches, and to me that's illegal.

BECKEL: Did I hear you right? He's going to do away with the executive branch, another indictment of Obama, that's impeachment right there.

BOLLING: The legislative branch. He's not going to do away with the executive branch.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, Bob.

BOLLING: On the constitutional lawyer, liberal lawyer.

PERINO: Well, so, Jonathan Turley is -- people from both sides of the aisle and all the different ranges of the ideological spectrum listen to him because he's a thoughtful person, and one of the things he gave George W. Bush a really hard time on a lot of things, but I think when he speaks about this that he's right, and I would take it not just -- I'd take it beyond the executive branch and the rule changes that Senator Harry Reid made in the Senate are also something that they will probably live to regret.

And he's right, I believe, that Congress ought to try to get ahead of this because you're starting to hear it in a lot of polls. I know that the Democrats have certain things that work for them like the government shutdown. They love to talk about that. That's how they raise money.

On the Republican side, talking about this circumvention of Congress is actually one of the things that is motivating people for the 2014 election.

BOLLING: Greg, is he, Turley, really saying it's time to impeach Obama?

GUTFELD: I think he is, Eric. No, He's a fan of the president and his policies, but he doesn't like cheaters. It's like you want your team to win the Super Bowl but not on a really bad call because that takes away.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: But you know what this is about? This is about the perception that gridlock is evil, and the fact is gridlock is part of the design.

A crazy leader cannot drive the truck off the cliff if you control the truck, and that's what gridlock is and that's what Obama is trying to fight. He's trying to get around gridlock. There's a reason for it.

By the way, there is a tipping point for the word tipping point, and I think he reached it.

BOLLING: That's a good book, by the way.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: We've got to move on.

BECKEL: One thing I was going to say started with Richard Nixon and the question of executive branch power versus legislative.

BOLLING: OK, all right. Now --

BECKEL: OK, fine. Bob, thanks.

BOLLING: Now, let's move on.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Doesn't it drive you crazy when you see bloated self-worth Hollywood actors testifying on Capitol Hill? Me, too, unless, of course, all the testimony goes this way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SETH ROGEN, ACTOR: I don't know if you know who I am at all. You told me you never saw "Knocked Up," Chairman, so it's a little insulting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the first time in any congressional hearing in history that the words "knocked up" have ever been used.

(LAUGHTER)

ROGEN: Oy. You're not going to like the rest of this then.

(LAUGHTER)

ROGEN: First, I should answer the question I assume many of you are asking. Yes, I'm aware this has nothing to do with the legalization of marijuana.

I came here today for a few reasons. One, I'm a huge "House of Cards" fan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Rogen not taking himself too seriously while testifying on a very serious topic, Alzheimer's education.

But, Greg, I'm frankly tired of seeing actors on Capitol Hill.

GUTFELD: Yes, but you know what --

GUILFOYLE: They are not.

GUTFELD: This is different because generally when they are on Capitol Hill, it's for shallow phony causes like animal rights and climate change. This is a real coming crisis. You need the same effort in rhetoric for Alzheimer's disease, that you would have had for HIV and for climate change.

And the danger of hysterical causes like climate change it steals from real ones. He has a personal investment, as does just about every American has a personal investment for finding a cure for Alzheimer's disease.

PERINO: Yes, right.

GUTFELD: So, you know, I'm a hypocrite. I make fun of celebrities for their causes, but when they find a real cause, I love them.

BOLLING: This one is OK.

Dana, you all right with this one?

PERINO: I like this one because people have the benefit of celebrity and can use it to a positive advantage, that's great. I remember when Angelina Jolie came to the Hill to talk about her work in the United Nations, it was -- it was very helpful in trying to get some of those programs pushed through.

BOLLING: Go ahead.

BECKEL: Yes, go ahead.

BOLLING: Who wants to go?

BECKEL: I don't know.

BOLLING: You're so polite.

BECKEL: I was going to say, I don't believe, by the way, climate change is not as big an issue.

But the one thing about these people go up there, whatever their issues are, they do get a lot of publicity. I mean, otherwise, these hearings would have nothing.

GUTFELD: Right.

BECKEL: You know? So, you could have the best people testifying out there and get somebody like one of these guys to speak, it's going to get us to watch, right?

BOLLING: What about it, Kimberly? Actors, just for the publicity sake alone -- by the way, Congress people is all right with it, too, because they get their mug on TV.

GUILFOYLE: But I think these are issues that they care about, we always talk about people doing something with their voice, if you have celebrity, the people are going to listen, it's going to draw some attention. It's going to make the news cycle that night. I'm all for it.

I think Alzheimer's is an important cause. It's affecting so many millions and millions of American and Ben Affleck's testimony was well- received about the Congo.

BOLLING: We're going to do that next.

GUILFOYLE: Spends a lot of time and money --

GUTFELD: The country is getting old, and it's all these young people are going to be taking care of us.

BOLLING: Do you remember Stephen Colbert testifying?

PERINO: Yes, that was funny.

BOLLING: That was good stuff.

All right. Finally, also on Capitol Hill yesterday, Kimberly points out, two of my favorite people on the planet, wink, wink, John Kerry and Ben Affleck, having an awkward moment during a photo op. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN AFFLECK, ACTOR: You tell me what you want to do.

Do you want to stand?

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Stand up, be strong --

AFFLECK: Can we back up a bit?

KERRY: You're going be Batman.

AFFLECK: I'm trying to work out. I'm trying to get more like you.

KERRY: You can see the difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So, K.G., that was I believe that was after the testimony, if I'm not -- before or after the testimony, a little awkward.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but it's cute. They get nervous and shell-shocked around celebrities and John Kerry is no exception. But Ben Affleck is a super, super nice guy, very friendly, and I like him a lot personally.

BOLLING: I happen not to like either one of those guys.

GUILFOYLE: Why? But have you met Ben Affleck in person? Do you know him? Do you spend time with him?

BOLLING: No, I just don't like his act or whole persona.

GUILFOYLE: That's not nice.

BOLLING: I'm not a fan of it. I just don't like it. Do I have to like him?

GUILFOYLE: I think knowing you, if you met him and you spent time with him.

BOLLING: You guys like him?

GUILFOYLE: I 100 percent do.

BOLLING: Bob, your thoughts on the awkward moment between the secretary of state and --

BECKEL: Well, here's the problem. I'm so old I couldn't read the subtitles so I don't have any idea what happened.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: It was in your packet.

BOLLING: They couldn't figure out --

(AUDIO GAP)

PERINO: They needed a stage manager. They need a communications director organizing for them.

BOLLING: Don't they have them?

GUILFOYLE: I love your --

PERINO: Maybe they walked out of the room for a moment.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I love your desire (ph) of organization.

PERINO: I do love organization.

GUILFOYLE: I love it.

PERINO: Why are you laughing, Bob?

BECKEL: Because of something I said.

GUILFOYLE: He's just laughing himself.

BOLLING: Greg, you're going to weigh on this.

GUTFELD: I'm more interested in how kind of silly and pathetic the D.C. media is when celebrity shows up. They're like one IQ point away from being a Belieber. They are clamoring for photos and autographs. I'm surprised there's no line of media groupies, you know, offering to service themselves in a dressing room for any actor.

PERINO: I felt that way when I first met Charles Krauthammer. He came to my house I was like --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: You still feel that way.

BOLLING: We're trying to get a little behind the scenes action on this one. We put these segments together, I'm like Porter, let's do this, but can we set it up this way, a couple of awkward moments in history over the last couple of years. I said President Obama toasting the queen when he wasn't supposed to, awkward.

PERINO: That's awkward.

BOLLING: And Hillary Clinton pressing the reset button but really saying we're going to charge you more because she didn't interpret Russian the proper way.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: But they didn't --

BECKEL: How about the queen of England --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: But you just did it anyway.

BECKEL: Well, they're like stretch.

PERINO: How about when President Bush turned in China to go out that door and it was locked. That was a good awkward moment, but "The New York Times" put five photographs on the front page of "The New York Times" the next morning.

BOLLING: This is a big F'ing deal, remember that?

GUTFELD: Yes. How about vomiting in Japan, which was the name of my new song. No, but that was President Bush.

PERINO: H.W.

BOLLING: H.W.

PERINO: Do you remember when the queen of England came and put her on the podium to speak and all of her hats.

PERINO: They forgot -- well, you know what happened is they forgot to pull out the -- the little apple box.

BECKEL: Oh, I see.

GUILFOYLE: You know, I'm excited because you're about to read my one more thing. Tease it, babe.

BOLLING: Let's do it.

Ahead on "The Five," Pope Francis runs into his mini-me outside the Vatican, but the meeting didn't go so well. We'll show you exactly what happened.

Up next, though, Greg is fuming about a new attempted crackdown on e- cigarettes at Capitol Hill. He'll tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Yesterday, Senate Democrats brought forth a bill that would ban marketing e-cigs to teens. Yes, that's a concern. What's next? Ban the marketing of Mountain Dew to the elderly?

These idiots did this to protect the children, but perhaps they are really protecting the billions in tax dollars they get from real cigarettes. After all, there's no tobacco co-in an e-cig. There is no smoke. It's vapor, the same stuff between their stupid ears.

I call these gas bags greedy, but they are worse. They are deadly. Barbara Boxer, Dick Durbin, Harkin, Blumenthal, Markey, they stand in the way of the first real progress in ending smoking for good.

A half million people die yearly from smoking. If e-cigs had been around 30 years ago, many of our moms and dads would be alive.

Vaping as it's called means I will now live longer which is awesome for me and you. It's the greatest medical device since the clapper and yet spurred by cash and drama these hacks smear vaping which makes death smile. They need to be taken to a town square and shown what real tar is.

Boxer claims that e-cigs profit from addicts. No, they profit from quitters. I get protecting the kids, but this is not a gateway drug, it's a quitting device.

Her office also said there's no way of knowing whether e-cigs are harmful. There is, it's called science, you bozo.

See, this is all phony concern. Critics don't care that it's not smoking. Only that it looks like smoking. Why not ban chameleons or those creepy insects that look like sticks. I hate those things.

See, politicians love outrage. It makes them feel good which trumps doing good so they belch their toxic fumes cocooned in fake concern while people die. Maybe it's time to slap a warning label across their mouths. Beware, secondhand stupidity kills.

Drives me nuts.

PERINO: This happened to you.

GUTFELD: Yes, I was speaking two nights ago in Boston, at Northeastern University, talking about my cigarette, and -- and talking about how this is great, and it's not smoking and as I put it down, an individual had to walk out and take it from me, along with my glass of wine.

PERINO: You're kidding.

GUTFELD: Because smoking is illegal on campus.

GUILFOYLE: You had a wine?

GUTFELD: And they considered it smoking which is actually -- this is vapor, people. This is like a nicorette gum. This is like a patch. It's nothing.

GUILFOYLE: Wait, why were you giving a speech smoking and drinking at the same time?

PERINO: Prop comedy.

GUTFELD: Yes, I guess so. Relaxing, it's what I do.

GUILFOYLE: Look what you just did to Dana.

PERINO: But it doesn't bother me.

GUTFELD: It's water vapor.

PERINO: When Congress introduces a bill and it's all partisan like that, it -- you have to follow the money. Where does it lead to? Who is actually giving them the contributions, Bob? I mean, it has to be coming from somewhere. You could actually ride in a car with your dad smoking, vaping that with the windows rolled up and it would never bother your delicate sinuses.

GUILFOYLE: It would bother my hair. It would start to wilt so if you vape with a certain circumference around me. It's OK.

BECKEL: Just so nobody gets terribly along, particularly you, Greg, because you have a very long book tour in front of you, the people who introduced the bill are the most liberal of all the liberal Democratic senators.

GUILFOYLE: Why are they doing this? Need some attention?

BECKEL: Believe it or not, I believe they do believe -- they are way out in front of anti -- Harkin in particular on tobacco, but where are they getting the money from? My guess they are getting it from environmental groups is where they are getting some of the money from. I don't know. I think the motives are probably pure but the whole thing is ridiculous. I mean, if you have something that will help somebody stop smoking what more can you ask for?

BOLLING: It can't be -- it's got to be money. There are lobbyists somewhere who are saying, listen, let's squash this a little bit because the tobacco lobbyists most likely.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: But where else?

GUTFELD: Could it be the tax revenue because if people stop smoking you don't get tax dollars?

BOLLING: I don't know. Those are taxed, aren't they?

GUTEELD: No, that's the thing. They are not taxed.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: They will back off on, you know, the science behind it and start taxing the hell out of it.

BECKEL: I'd be shocked if any of these people received tobacco money.

PERINO: This is one of the best public policy arguments and debates going on on Capitol Hill right now actually. There's very little that government can do that won't make something worse.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: But I think it's also very strange that at the same time there are so many promoting the legalization of marijuana which you actually smoke that. That's not vapor.

BOLLING: This is like --

PERINO: Good point.

BOLLING: This is like banning alcohol-free beer.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

BOLLING: Alcoholics who like the taste of a beer and don't want the alcohol because they are alcoholics and they drink that instead, but they are not sure what's in it so they're going to ban it.

GUILFOYLE: It's just reckless, you know. I don't care about your mother or father or whoever in your family, your aunt your uncle because here's a chance for them to repair their lungs, for them to chance the course in the life span that they might be having here and they are saying, no, we're going to ban. It's ridiculous.

BECKEL: In case any of you get influenced by Eric Bolling and a lot of you do, believe me non-alcoholic beer has alcohol in it. So if you're an alcoholic don't touch it.

BOLLING: Really?

GUTFELD: It's a tiny bit.

BECKEL: It doesn't matter. I just warn you, don't do it, OK?

GUTFELD: From the Bay Area, wasn't Boxer for clean needles? I'm almost positive.

GUILFOYLE: Part of that needle exchange program.

GUTFELD: Which is actually allowing people to use a needle to take their drugs.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: Yet, they are against something --

GUILFOYLE: How does she justify this?

GUTFELD: Doesn't even have a tobacco. They want this to be a tobacco product. There's no tobacco in it.

PERINO: We're going to send you to the press conference next time.

GUTFELD: I would have a conniption.

PERINO: If you would be so fun if you went to the press conference and got to ask all the senators.

GUILFOYLE: Let's see if that's in our budget. Porter?

BECKEL: You know who is probably behind this, the trial lawyers. The trial lawyers have a very big interest in having another round of litigation.

GUILFOYLE: Now you're hanging out with your buddy Bolling. It's now --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: But this seems to me a (INAUDIBLE) -- you know how much money they made on tobacco?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Gosh, Bob, you may be on to something.

BECKEL: That's right. We started right here at "The Five."

GUTFELD: I know. This is crazy because it's about public health, but they are actually enabling the death of people. It is a crime what they are doing.

BECKEL: It's a lot better than the nicorette patches. I was at a swim club one day, a guy had patches --

BOLLING: You just found the other one. It could be the farming industry who's saying, you know, we sell a heck of a lot of nicorette, if you don't -- if you smoke that, you don't need smoking the nicorette.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: There you go. You got farmers, you got trial lawyers and tobacco lobbyists.

PERINO: Public health advocates.

GUILFOYLE: There's pockets there somewhere.

BOLLING: There's money, yes.

GUTFELD: And the trilateral commission, throw them in there, too.

All right. We got to go.

Next on "The Five," they may look guilty, but do dogs really feel shame?

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Dana, what a surprise, has the answer coming up.

GUILFOYLE: Look at the two of you.

GUTFELD: And Katy Perry caves to Muslims who are outraged about her new video. What a surprise!

We'll tell you about that. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: All right. If you have a dog probably know what it's like to find your socks or favorite slippers chewed to pieces or crumbs on the floor from that muffin that was stolen from the counter. A lot of times the faces on the guilty culprit say it all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who did this mess?

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maggie, did you make this mess? Somebody made it. Who made it? Who made this mess?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Dogs may look shameful after they have done something wrong but animal behaviorists are actually saying they actually lack shame. They say guilty looks are just a reaction to how you are reacting at what they did.

Now, the reason I'm laughing is because I know that Bob is about to explode. I --

GUILFOYLE: He is.

PERINO: I understand intellectually what they are saying, Bob, but I have to tell you I think Jasper really does have emotions.

I mean, check out some of these pictures here. I had to. It's shameless. Do we have Jasper pictures?

BECKEL: Yes, including one with me.

PERINO: Come on, there we go. So, there is looking kind of pensive, I think you can call that pensive, and the next one, let's see.

Oh, that's his blue steel look from "Zoolander." I'm tired of you taking pictures.

That one is -- oh, I love my mom, love taking a selfie picture.

And the last one, this is the one, Bob, I want you to explain. What do you think he was thinking there? I love Bob.

BECKEL: First of all, that was his professor, professorship, did he not? He's a nice dog, but are you kidding me? Feeling shame.

You know what dogs feel? They feel like they want to get to a tree. They want to get to a fire hydrant or want to get to my front yard down in Maryland.

And the other thing is they think about food. Now, beyond, that let me ask you this.

PERINO: Wait, you forgot another thing. They think of one other thing.

GUILFOYLE: What?

PERINO: Some things done in the after hours.

BECKEL: That's fine, happens once a year which would be better all for all of us if that happened to some of us.

GUILFOYLE: What are you talking about?

BECKEL: Do you think your dog will feel shame?

BOLLING: I'll tell you unequivocally that this study is absolutely wrong. I can tell you, I walk in the door, 100 percent of the time everything is fine, Freedom will be there, just so happy to see me.

The minute I walk in the door and he's not there, I walk in, look around, and I'll find him, his tail will be down and his ears down, and I'll know that he went through the garbage. And sure enough I'll go to the kitchen and the garbage is strewn across the kitchen.

PERINO: See?

BOLLING: They know -- they know they are guilty.

PERINO: Do you think maybe they are just learning to adapt to how we think they would say so the look on their faces.

BOLLING: There's a good boy. There he is.

PERINO: There's freedom.

GUILFOYLE: Bella is really neglected on this show.

PERINO: That's true. But I think she might be neglected --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I was just talking.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I actually have a dog.

BECKEL: Bella, who is Bella?

GUILFOYLE: Bella is my little dog. She's an imperial Shih Tzu. She's a little cotton ball with flecks of gold. She's super, super cute, and she eats like she's a Rottweiler.

BECKEL: We should go to Dana Perino school of public relations for dogs.

GUILFOYLE: She just hangs out around Ronan and eats all the food that drops. One day I forgot to move the tray with the oatmeal, left over from breakfast and she leapt all of a sudden with unbelievable agility, ate all the oatmeal, everything on there and I came home from taking him to school and she's sitting there like me, me, me.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: She feels bad.

Greg, I'm afraid of what you're going to say because it's going to be very logical and I'm going to be embarrassed.

GUTFELD: All animal expressions are an adaption -- an evolutionary adaptation for survival. I hate to tell you that affection is a mechanism so you don't eat them.

After all, we hunt foxes. We don't hunt dogs. Foxes are dogs who don't give a damn. They are dogs who don't kiss human butts.

That's why we hunt foxes. We don't eat cats. We don't eat dogs because they evolve to express an emotion that makes us go ah.

That's why babies are so adorable so we don't throw the babies out.

BECKEL: What cat have you ever seen giving emotion? All they do is look at you like they know more than you do --

GUTFELD: They come up and they rub your leg.

PERINO: What?

GUTFELD: They come up and they --

GUILFOYLE: Babies rubbing off on you --

GUTFELD: I just -- any time an animal is affectionate towards you because they don't want to die.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's because they want food.

GUTFELD: Sorry, that's the truth. That doesn't make them any less lovable. They are just scared of you. They are scared of you.

You're a giant fleshy creature that feeds them every day and they are thinking, please, I hope you don't stop feeding me.

PERINO: Correct. And then you let them sleep on the bed.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: OK.

All right. Coming up, an update on a story we brought you yesterday. Some Muslims were you be happy with imagery in one of Katy Perry's new music videos and the singer has decided to do something about it, but did she have to? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: This is -- I told you about how some Muslims are upset with Katy Perry's new music video, "Dark Horse." Are you ready?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: That's the No. 1 song in the country. They accused her of blasphemy, because the video shows a pendant inscribed with the word "Allah" that gets zapped.

Perry just caved to a petition and removed the symbol from the online version of the video. Why, why, why? I guess this raises a bigger question. It's not just about Perry. Why is everybody caving to radical Muslims, including the White House, including virtually any -- I mean, I don't get it. I mean, is everybody afraid they're going to get jihaded? I mean, something's got -- what do you think? Why do you think everybody...

PERINO: Fatwa.

BECKEL: ... seems to think...

GUTFELD: Perry values her life and her family, which is the ultimate insult to a faith. But she's saying your faith scares me to death, and it's a compliment to Christianity that no one does that. Because oh, they're sane people.

BECKEL: Then I should be dead by now, right?

GUTFELD: And there are, you know, was it 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, too, so maybe she also values the ability to sell those people records, and if there's a big Muslim pushback because of that...

BECKEL: You think they're going to allow that record in Muslim countries.

BOLLING: I'm sure they do allow it, Bob. They may not like it, but they'll certainly allow it with the exception of maybe some...

PERINO: I bet if you're found with it on your iPod, you'd probably be...

BOLLING: And some of the songs, they have 152 million downloads, and I'm sure they're coming from -- some are coming from Muslim...

GUILFOYLE: She's hugely popular.

GUTFELD: Al Qaeda loves her.

BOLLING: Less catering to the Muslim religion than she is the Muslim dollar or whatever.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BECKEL: What do you think? Do you think she's caving to the dollar or do you think she's afraid she's going to get ousted?

GUILFOYLE: I think it's not a simple answer. I think it's probably a combination of both, but I think if you had to pick one or the other, I think it's fear factor. Because look, there's repercussions. Everybody knows it at this table, right? I mean, it's not just talk. They act, and they do some of the most vicious, heinous things like murdering children, so wouldn't you be a little concerned? I don't blame her for that.

BECKEL: If I'm concerned I'm in real trouble. But from the public relations standpoint, if you were the head of a Muslim country, wouldn't you think it would be a good idea to at least step forward and say this does not represent all of us?

PERINO: I have never actually visualized myself being a spokesperson for the Muslim countries, but, yes, I would have to say yes, I would. I have a question about how did the Muslims even see that? Because we -- you ever heard that somebody wants to be offended, they'll find a way to be offended. We had to, like, blow that up with a highlight and a circle around it. I don't understand. Were they looking at it frame by frame in order to be offended?

BECKEL: You can barely see it. PERINO: And I also have to wonder about the recording industry artists of America. Why wasn't any -- why didn't the association come out and defend her and her right to do -- be able to say whatever she wanted?

GUILFOYLE: Scared. Scared.

BECKEL: That's exactly right. And all I can say is I repeat my thing. There's an awful lot of cowards in the world.

"One More" thing is up next, cowards.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." We begin with Mr. Bolling.

BOLLING: All right. Very quickly. Bear with me here for a second. Take a look at what happened last night and today. Just listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What we're worried about is the Koch brothers and their friends bringing in millions and millions and millions of dollars.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I can't say that every one of the Koch brothers' ads are a lie, but I'll say this. Mr. President, the vast, vast majority of them are. These two brothers are about as un- American as anyone that I can imagine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Wow.

BOLLING: All right. Crazy Harry Reid, you are so off base. Very quickly, the full screen, take a look at this.

The Koch brothers are not the top donors. They're not even close. They're 59th on the list, and look at the top three, solidly Democratic, strongly Democratic and both.

And let me just tell you, Kimberly, Koch brothers, $100 million to the American Ballet, $100 million to the New York Presbyterian Hospital, $65 million to the Met Museum of Art and $100 million to MIT cancer research, and the list goes on. Twenty-five million...

BECKEL: To right-wing groups.

BOLLING: And here's the point. These people are some of the biggest philanthropists on the planet. For Harry Reid and Joe Biden to call them out the way they did is terrible. They should absolutely apologize.

BECKEL: Why? Why apologize to those guys? Those guys are out there trying to destroy the Democratic Party.

BOLLING: Sorry.

BECKEL: You do this to me all the time.

PERINO: You just got Beckeled.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Bob.

BECKEL: My man, Teddy Cruz, the senator from Texas, one of my dear friends. Teddy has decided for the first time I can remember to not endorse for re-election his Republican colleague Mr. Cornyn.

Apparently, leaves it open for the Tea Party to challenge. But Teddy, my man, you've got to do something besides getting up there and talking about steak and cheese or whatever you're talking about, blue smoke and mirrors. Teddy, I'm trying to groom you to be president, man. You've got to be careful about these things.

PERINO: Sure he appreciates that.

GUTFELD: I have no idea what he said.

PERINO: No one knows.

GUILFOYLE: Greg.

GUTFELD: I'm excited that tonight on "Red Eye," very late. I know you guys don't stay up too late, so maybe you should DVR it. I've got Stuart Copeland for the whole hour. He's the drummer for The Police. By the way, one of the greatest drummers alive today, and he's going to be on talking about his new project that I think he's doing an orchestral soundtrack to "Ben Hur," and I'm not joking.

PERINO: Wow.

GUTFELD: He'll be on for the whole hour.

BECKEL: The whole hour?

GUTFELD: Yes.

BECKEL: Is he going to drum the whole hour?

GUTFELD: No. He's going to be on with Sharatz Small (ph). It's going to be fun.

That's just me when I was skinnier.

GUILFOYLE: That's like Photoshopped in half.

GUTFELD: Thank you, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, I'm sorry.

PERINO: This is the "One More Thing" that I waived yesterday when we had Alex Trebek on. This is a "Washington Post" correction. One of the best thing to read in a newspaper is the correction. Let me tell you about the capture of a Mexican drug lord, El Chapo.

It's in the "Washington Post." This correction ran. "An earlier version of this story erroneously said that Joaquin Guzman was found in bed with his secretary. He was found with his wife, and this version has been corrected."

I guess it's kind of hard to fact check those things, but that was maybe the best correction ever.

GUTFELD: He's more worried about that than the arrest.

PERINO: Sorry, we didn't mean to say that.

GUILFOYLE: He'll be out. He's got $1 billion. He's not staying in any Mexican jail. He goes to a U.S. one more.

All right. Anyway, so "One More Thing," super-cute. Put it up. Love Pope Francis, and look at the little mini me that came up to him. He was dressed for carnival. But here was the big moment and the little munch was crying, but he looked so cute. He even got through all the security because of his little outfit. Isn't that so adorable?

PERINO: So if you wear an outfit like that you can walk on up to the pope?

BOLLING: He's get patted down at Newark Airport.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. TSA would have a field day.

PERINO: Check how cute he is.

GUTFELD: He's a pope-sicle.

GUILFOYLE: What?

GUTFELD: He's a pope-sicle.

GUILFOYLE: Awe. Well, he's a baby. Cute one.

All right. Don't forget to set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." We're going to see you back here tomorrow.

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