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The Five

Declassified transcripts shed light on Benghazi attack

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 14, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Andrea Tantaros, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City. This is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

BOLLING: We have a huge show for you tonight, including "Lone Survivor", the blockbuster film depicting the firefight that killed three Navy SEALs. The detractors claiming the film is just war propaganda, and the heart-tugging reaction from a mom of one of those killed in action SEALs, plus, a former Medal of Honor recipient. You'll hear from all of them.

But, first, a story you'll only see right here on FOX. Last night, FOX's James Rosen broke the news that President Obama, the White House, and many Obama senior advisers knew within minutes that the attack on the consulate in Benghazi was terror, not a protest in response to the often cited video.

Here's how it went down the night of September 11th, 2012 -- 9:42 p.m. Benghazi time. Benghazi consulate gets attacked. Within 18 minutes, General Dempsey and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta were told by General Ham about the attack. Again, underlining attack, not protest. Within an hour, 11:00 p.m., there's a meeting with President Obama, General Dempsey, and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta. So, Obama is made aware of that at 11:00 p.m. Benghazi time.

One-forty-five a.m., Ambassador Stevens is declared dead. Two hours and 15 minutes later, Woods and Doherty are declared dead as well.

Ten a.m., the bodies of Ambassador Stevens, Shawn Smith, Tyrone Woods, and Glen Doherty are flown from Benghazi to Andrews Air Force Base.

Jay Carney was asked about the new revelations in the briefing room just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: For many days after the president, but you specifically at that podium said, we did not know if it was a terror attack. Why if the military leaders testified to Capitol Hill that they knew it was an attack almost immediately, why did you concede --

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Of course it was an attack. The facility was attacked. There was never any doubt about -- come on, Ed. I know there's a desire here to color outside the lines, but this is not factual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Coloring outside the lines. Listen to a few in the Obama administration coloring way outside the lines, given what we now know from General Ham's damning testimony. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

CARNEY: Let's be clear. These protests were in reaction to a video that had spread to the region. We have no information to suggest that it was a preplanned attack.

HILLARY CLINTON, THEN-SECRETARY OF STATE: We have seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful Internet video that we had nothing to do with.

SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: What sparked the recent violence was the airing on the Internet of a very hateful, very offensive video.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BOLLING: All right. K.G., let's do ladies first. K.G., the one -- the most offensive one for me was Hillary Clinton at Andrews Air Force, with the four caskets behind her, went ahead and blamed the video knowing very well at that moment that it had nothing to do with the video. It was in fact an attack.

Now, we have proof.

GUILFOYLE: Well, this is damning information. I want to know how many lives you have to take to be a gold member of the liars club, because all those people that you showed, one lie after the next, have a very loose relationship with the truth. They don't care -- despite facts and information that they had at their disposal at the time this happened, and they sold lies to the American people, and it's shameful because American blood was spilled and it's what we have been saying from the beginning on this program.

BOLLING: You know, A.T., General Ham testified under oat to Congress that it was 18 minutes after the attack started that Leon Panetta and General Dempsey were notified.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: That's right, and we just saw Hillary Clinton state misinformation. It looks like her State Department had it right. So as you mention, Eric, just minutes after the State Department operation center said it was a terror attack and then moments later, they said it was Ansar al Sharia, we know that General Petraeus at the time, he had a memo that said that it was al Qaeda linked,

And we know from Steven Hayes, FOX News contributor, from his reports in the "Weekly Standard", that there was a specific meeting on Friday, September 14th, where Victoria Nuland at the State Department expressed concern that her supervisors were not happy with the initial reports that were out, saying that it was al Qaeda, so she and Ben Rhodes got into a meeting -- we have not heard from Ben Rhodes yet -- changed these talking points to say it was a video and it was that Sunday that they went out and perpetuated the lie.

Nobody in the military ever said it was a video. It was changed way after the fact, and it was done deliberately for political points.

BOLLING: And, Greg, in fact, General Ham was testifying. He was also asked two or three times, when you say attack, you mean attack, right? You're not talking about a protest? He was very clear and precise about calling it an attack, not a protest.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yes, I am one of the people who would easily forgive an administration over confusing over an attack like this and understanding that the things are happening incredibly quickly, and there's no nefarious things going on.

However, if there was an inclination to blame a video, how easy is that blame taken by the media? Why does it happen? It's because there's an environment that fosters a belief that when there's a conflict between the East and West, generally the West is the Goliath. We're the ones responsible for such things, by fostering an Islamophobia. This is somehow our fault.

Therefore, you have a filmmaker who is in jail for violating parole because of his alias. You would have an alias, too, when you see Theo Van Gogh's body.

The fact is, all the filmmakers that are defending Roman Polanski or defending Woody Allen, both perverts, aren't defending this guy.

GUILFOYLE: He's still in jail.

GUTFELD: Yes, he's still in jail. I mean, the point is -- there are two reasons they blamed this video. One is to win an election. And number two is it's easier to censor than capture.

BOLLING: Juan, Greg makes a very good point. There's a lot of reasons why they may have. Clinton, Carney, Susan Rice all fell in line. Did they fall in line out of, I don't know, a feeling that they need to or they were told to?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I wonder about that around this table. I mean, it seems to me everybody here is falling in line, like oh my God, the sky is falling, conspiracy theory. Let's buy into grand conspiracy theory.

Let's get back to the facts, Eric. The facts are that right now, Carter Ham said he was never told to withdraw. All he did was say, you know what, guys, it looks like an attack. It looks like something that was planned, there was some foresight here.

He didn't say it was attached to al Qaeda. He didn't say any of that. He didn't say a word like that.

BOLLING: But when he was pressed, they specifically said, General Ham, was it a protest? Did it look like a protest? Did you ever even mention protest? He said absolutely not.

WILLIAMS: No, he's talking specifically about Benghazi. Remember that the video did spark mass protests in places like Tunisia, in Egypt. There were real protests in response to the video.

BOLLING: The point is he distinguished it --

WILLIAMS: Let me finish, General Ham then goes on to say, American intelligence did not suggest there was any imminent threat of an attack coming in Benghazi, so he wasn't on guard against it. When he saw what had taken place, he said it looked like a planned attack.

GUTFELD: Yes. By the way, could we blame "Lone Survivor" for the shooting in the movie theater?

BOLLING: What do you mean?

GUTFELD: The shooting that took place where the guy shot the guy over texting.

TANTAROS: You're giving them ideas, Greg.

GUTFELD: No, but that's my point. It's the same thing.

BOLLING: So, Andrea, let's talk --

GUILFOYLE: There's no nexus between the two, but we can arbitrarily pick it.

WILLIAMS: Well, arbitrary is a good word here, because I think there is a lot of arbitrary picking going on.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: One of the other things that came out of General Ham's testimony is that the consulate was grossly underprepared for any sort of attack.

Who we pin that one on?

TANTAROS: You have to pin that on the State Department and the White House.

Think about it, the ambassador himself was asking for increased security months before there had been two attacks prior to that third attack that happened on September 11th. I would think that considered U.S. soil, this is what our embassies are and our consulates, that President Obama would have had to know that two weeks prior, a hole was blown so large into the wall that 40 men could walk through, that President Obama was alerted to that.

Why the British embassy closed and ours stayed open and they didn't give increased security when the ambassador was asking for it himself is absolutely shameful. Clinton was friends with him or at least claimed to be friends with Ambassador Stevens.

And, by the way, there were 30 CIA agents on the ground. They knew what was going on. To say it was spontaneous -- think about this -- the ambassador went from Tripoli, to Benghazi, to a safe house. Do you think anybody doing something spontaneously would have that kind of intelligence?

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem, there's so much more to this, and they knew it at the time. And now some of the facts and truth are coming out and hopefully other people are going to have the courage to tell what happened.

BOLLING: You make a very good point. James Rosen is going to break more details tonight at 6:00 on "SPECIAL REPORT", and he's going to focus in on the White House knew. So, all this they didn't know or what they understood was accurate, we have to be careful because there's a lot more coming out in about 50 minutes.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm all for it. Bring it on. I say lay it on the table.

Look, there have been extensive hearings. Hillary Clinton, I know she's your demon of the moment, but I mean, Hillary Clinton has testified about this in front of hard-nosed Republicans.

GUILFOYLE: What difference does it make?

BOLLING: What difference does it make?

WILLIAMS: Hey, but they asked her hard questions, and she testified. Let me just say, Representative Roby, a Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, she said, look, no one was held back. Nothing happened here that you would say, oh, scandal.

BOLLING: That was a different topic, Juan. That was when she was asked, were there assets available to help them?

WILLIAMS: Oh, remember, one was conspiracy theory was, oh, the military never -- the military was held back, they didn't -- weren't allowed to go.

BOLLING: Juan, let's be fair. This topic was whether or not the White House knew it was or not in advance? That's separate from whether --

WILLIAMS: They knew. But attack is not conspiracy by al Qaeda, who attacked us on 9/11.

BOLLING: Right. Well, we don't know and maybe we'll find out in 50 minutes.

The second topic of the block, the IRS, we now find out, the Justice Department is not going to prosecute the IRS for their targeting conservative groups.

GUTFELD: Yes, the best thing about it is the person in charge of this investigation is a big Obama donor. Apparently, Michelle was busy, they couldn't track down Oprah. Clooney was doing a film. Bo the dog, they couldn't find him. Perhaps he was eaten.

The IRS case is the equivalent of a corrupt cop blocking a crime scene and saying nothing to see here. The White House makes the mob look like the Teletubbies. The Obama administration will go down as the anything- goes administration, mainly because the media lets them get away with everything. They're submissive as a blind hooker.

GUILFOYLE: Wow.

BOLLING: Bring it around.

TANTAROS: I would say this is the political equivalent of defining deviancy down, right? The Justice Department has gone after whether or not Roger Clemens took steroids, and they won't go after this? It's absolutely shameful. And, by the way, this woman, this donor that Greg mentioned, didn't even bother for seven months to talk to the victims.

How do you do an investigation when you're not talking to the victims?

GUILFOYLE: It's an invisible, imaginary investigation by the Holder and Justice Department once again.

BOLLING: Can they say we're not going to investigate it, and Congress can't lean on them?

GUILFOYLE: They have been doing it for five, going on six years. They shouldn't, but they can. They have the power and the ability to walk away, turn a blind eye, to not assign investigators.

BOLLING: Well, they have been trying, right?

TANTAROS: We need Congress to change the laws.

WILLIAMS: You know, I hate to bring this up -- but the FBI did investigate and they said there was no finding of any political bias or enemy hunting going on.

TANTAROS: Oh, yes.

WILLIAMS: They say in fact where you had people say, oh, Tea Party, they also said occupy. Where they said patriot, they also said progressive. They didn't understand the law. That was the problem. They were mismanaged.

BOLLING: They're wrapping us. We've got to leave it right there.

Next up, ObamaCare on the verge of flat-lining. Grim new data means you the taxpayer are going to have to fork over a lot more of your hard- earned money to keep ObamaCare alive. Details coming up.

And later, a shout-out from "The Five" to one of the biggest radio stars of all time, the self-proclaimed king of all media. What did Howard Stern say about us? Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: If you're an angry loser with lots of free time, what do you do -- besides work at Media Matters, of course? You wage war against stuff that works, like Walmart. Activist groups love blocking new stores, pretending that that helps communities when really they just success and their own miserable failure. It's like spitting on a nice car or rooting against Superman.

Imagine them now as they say employee health plans are better than ObamaCare. Independent agents compared the two and found Walmart's to be far cheaper, full coverage is 40 bucks, for a family $160, while providing better access to high-quality care than Barack's boondoggle. That's not saying much. A fat man's shadow provides better coverage than ObamaCare.

GUILFOYLE: That's funny.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

Will the press care? Please, this is Walmart. If it were the creeps, that'd be different.

Look, I know comparing Walmart to the government isn't fair. One provides, the others divides. It's like comparing an apple to a razor blade.

So, shouldn't activists be happy a million people have good health care? Not in the punitive anti-capitalist world. Walmart is just a proxy for the evil west that provides goods and services in ways the commies never could. No wonder activists really hate them.

My advice, go to Walmart, head to aisle 11. That's where you'll find the diapers -- you big stupid babies.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you also have to hate on babies?

GUTFELD: I wasn't' hating -- I wasn't hating on babies.

Interesting news coming out, Eric -- ObamaCare's youth problem. New data shows the administration, too few young people are signing up to keep the premiums from rising. We knew this.

BOLLING: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: And now, it's happening.

BOLLING: It's happening massively.

So, the Obama administration put out prior to the unrolling of ObamaCare, they needed 7.7 million enrollees by March. They also needed 3.5 million by the end of the year. And of that, they needed in order for this to work, 40 percent had to be young people.

What they end up is a million fewer than they expected and only 24 percent young people are -- of the enrollees are young people, which means it's a lot older people who require a lot more health care, which means the whole system is going to cost a boatload more for us, the taxpayer.

GUTFELD: Yes.

So, Juan, the solution here is to work at Walmart?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, you're in bad shape, but yes, I guess if you can get a job at Walmart, do it. I mean, I wouldn't say don't do it, but I would say you're going to get low wages and of course at Christmas time, you'll have to ask the customers to donate your gifts because you won't have money to buy them.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: That is true.

WILLIAMS: Of course, it's true. I don't come on here and say nonsense. What's interesting is I watch people who are so excited that oh, my gosh, they've got a problem with young people signing up for ObamaCare.

And I just worry about all of you because I love you so much and I know in a couple months you're going to be like, oh, no, he got them. He got them, oh no, he got them because under Mitt Romney's plan in Massachusetts, that's exactly what happened. The young people don't sign up first. Who signs up first? Older people who really need it.

BOLLING: But, Juan, we didn't make the number. We didn't say it was supposed to be 40 percent.

WILLIAMS: No, that's ideal, what they want.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: How are you saying -- Juan, how are you saying this is going to be workable now? You called us all Chicken Little, the sky is falling. Why is the sky not falling, Juan?

WILLIAMS: It's not falling. First, Kaiser says even with 25 percent, there's a way it will work. But they want 40 percent. You're exactly right. It's just that they haven't got it yet.

GUILFOYLE: It's a failure to fund. There's no money to support this. That's the problem.

WILLIAMS: That's not true.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it is.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: There's a ton of money.

TANTAROS: That's the key. There's a ton of money. It's just a question of whose money is it going to be? It's going to be our money because we're going to bail out the insurance companies.

You know what burns me up? When Democrats reference Massachusetts. Massachusetts had the lowest number of uninsured in the country.

GUTFELD: Right.

TANTAROS: It took years and millions and millions of dollars. Mitt Romney constantly was going back to the legislature, asking for more money and advertising to get young people to sign up. Young people, Juan, they just didn't come to the table. So what's going to happen?

WILLIAMS: They eventually did.

TANTAROS: What's going to happen now after millions and millions and hundreds of millions of dollars trying to get young people to the table? Then what? Insurance companies are still going to jack up rates.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You just said -- by the way, I was very thrilled to hear that I'm getting you hot. But I must say --

GUILFOYLE: Actually, that was your imagination.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: An argument, because I was arguing. Oh.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: OK, but the point is, guess what? Romney did. He got the Celtics, he got the Patriots, he got everybody, the Red Sox, to say to young men, hey you guys, you've got to sign up, and the young people did.

GUILFOYLE: So, we have to make insurance sexy, OK.

TANTAROS: Very quickly, Greg, you are not considered sign up unless you pay your premium. So these numbers, I bet, are going to be even lower than what we see today.

WILLIAMS: Oh, you're not just talking negative --

TANTAROS: Mr. Hot Man over there --

WILLIAMS: Oh, there she goes again.

TANTAROS: I would wager a couple pairs of shoes on it.

GUTFELD: Can I ask before we go, K.G., are you familiar at all with the Spanglish rollout?

GUILFOYLE: The Spanglish -- well, yes, but the problem is, is that going to be money in their pockets to fund this? Who are you hoping to get with all this?

GUTFELD: But it's been called an insulting disaster. The Spanglish Web site.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, it's like Dora the Explorer but not as educational. Not going to work, and insulting to all Hispanics.

GUTFELD: Including myself.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I'm 1/16 Hispanic.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

BOLLING: One-sixteenth Cherokee, too.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

WILLIAMS: No, no, I think he is Elizabeth Warren.

I am. All right. Coming up, Americans are coming out in droves to see the military biopic "Lone Survivor", despite the fact that some liberal loser critics, Juan, are trying to convince them the movie is pro-war propaganda. A Medal of Honor recipient takes them on, next on "The Five".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: "Lone Survivor", a film based Marcus Luttrell's firsthand account of the tragic 2005 Navy SEAL mission in Afghanistan, topped the box office this past weekend. It is a true story brought to life about our American heroes, but some liberal critics have the audacity to call it war propaganda. While a lot of people have an issue with that, including Sergeant Dakota Meyer who earned a Medal of Honor for his service in Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. DAKOTA MEYER, MEDAL OF HONOR RECIPIENT: What they're calling propaganda is a reality for 0.4 percent of the nation that has gone over there for the last 12 years, fighting these wars so we can be free. I mean, these are the stories of the men and women who are sacrificing and they've got to come back and tell the story so other people know. The problem is people don't understand what the mission was going over there.

We went over there and our mission was to stabilize that country, to put them in a position to where they had an opportunity to go and secure the country and make a difference. We did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: And here's reaction from Donna Axelson, the mother of Matthew Axelson, who was killed fighting next to Luttrell in the fateful battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONNA AXELSON, MOTHER OF FALLEN SEAL: Hogwash. Marcus has been very careful about not bringing politics into this as all. These are men and women who want to do this. It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the courage and bravery of our military men and women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: We've been talking about this movie and the book, you know, long before the movie came out. And now, people are catching on. It's in more wide release now, so people have an opportunity to see it. It's done very well at the box office. Now you see the discussion about it, Eric.

GUILFOYLE: So, these liberals are calling it a pro-war movie. It's not a pro-war movie. It's a pro-America movie. It's an "America is exceptional" movie, and it just highlights our military and really the Navy SEALs and how no one left behind. They would not leave one person behind no matter what.

But it doesn't play well in liberal la-la-land, and so, they call it a pro-war propaganda movie, which is -- which is offensive, especially to the moms of the three SEALs that died there.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and the family members, the children, the wives, the loved ones left behind -- Andrea.

TANTAROS: When I think propaganda, I think Benghazi was caused by a video. I think propaganda when I think that our president told us al Qaeda was on the run. I don't think about a factual movie based on the Navy SEALs actually going in and fighting for this country.

You know, they are incredibly, incredibly brave. Whether you agree with the mission or not, you have to support them.

Look at this president. What is his plan -- his foreign policy plan, besides the Navy SEALs? Who has he relied on?

Think about it. Who has put all those wins on the board? The pirates, getting bin Laden, the U.S. Navy SEALs.

So, for liberals to go after the military -- I mean, it really, they revealed the ugliest side of themselves when they do this thing, I think.

And they make the case for their political enemies.

GUILFOYLE: When did it become so unpopular to the point where there's an overwhelming indoctrination in this country that's anti-American, anti- American exceptionalism. When did we become like this?

GUTFELD: I don't know if -- I don't know. But you know who is making propaganda films right now? Funny or Die. The great comedic liberals in Hollywood are bending over for ObamaCare like roofy gumbies (ph).

You have a critic -- you have a critic who called the movie, David Edelstein, I think he called the movie cliched. And he is right, because serving your country is cliched. Patriotism is cliched because it exists and it's real and it's good. Sometimes those are cliches.

What's not cliche in their eyes is bashing that behavior. They somehow think bashing serving your country is edgy when it's really as edgy as a cotton ball.

What's killing the critics is things like this movie and "Duck Dynasty" are doing so well in an America they don't recognize. It must be making the Weinstein brothers throw up knowing that these things are so successful.

WILLIAMS: I'm glad you said that. Everybody at the table seems to thing, gee, the liberals really don't like our soldiers. They're so opposed to them.

But didn't Hollywood make this movie? Mark Wahlberg and the gang?

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And, secondly, guess what, I think there are lots of liberals, Eric, who love America, and think patriotism and fighting for the country is terrific.

Let me finish. And guess who's going to see this movie?

GUILFOYLE: You?

WILLIAMS: It's not the "Duck Dynasty" crowd. In fact, less than half of the people going to see this movie are white. You know, Americans of any kind. It's black folks and Hispanics that are making this movie a hit.

GUILFOYLE: But they're all Americans. You want to break it down on minority demographics --

WILLIAMS: No, no, I'm the one saying let's not break it down, liberals and conservatives. I'm telling you, exactly, this movie has doubled expectations, biggest January rollout in years. Because more than half -- I'm just telling you.

GUILFOYLE: We're talking about America.

GUTFELD: The number of Eskimos that are going to see the movie --

WILLIAMS: You can mock it, but the fact is this movie wouldn't be a big hit if in fact despite not having a major black character, it has drawn --

GUILFOYLE: Juan, we're talking about American heroes and lies.

WILLIAMS: Action movie, but also, guess who is in the military?

GUTFELD: Yes, that's a good point.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, I will give you that from this end. From your Puerto Rican sister, I feel what you're saying, but I want to show you this moment from Donna Axelson, very emotional this morning this morning on "FOX & FRIENDS".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONNA AXELSON, OTHER OF FALLEN SEAL: Ben Foster did a phenomenal job.

STEVE DOOCY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: He was the actor who played him.

AXELSON: Yes. And we had the opportunity to meet him in Albuquerque at the end of September before they started filming. And to kind of talk to him about who Matthew was. He did an amazing job of bringing Matthew to the screen. And after I saw the rough cut in May, I texted Ben and I said, thank you for bringing my son back to me for a few hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: You can imagine the power of that moment, and all of the actors, Eric Bana, Mark Wahlberg, Ben Foster, were out heavily promoting the film, because they thought it was important for Americans to see, and Peter Berg did a fine job. And thanks to Marcus for writing the book.

Before we go, a special programming note: Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates sits down with our very own Sean Hannity tonight for a special interview on his new book. It's out today, so tune in, 10:00 p.m. Eastern on the FOX News Channel.

And up next is the Octomom headed to jail? Oh, no. We're going to tell you what Nadya Suleman has been charged with that involved your hard- earned money, when "The Five" returns.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TANTAROS: She's no stranger to controversy, but now, the Octomom has landed herself in legal hot water. Yesterday, Nadya Suleman was charged with welfare fraud after allegedly reported to report nearly $30,000 in earnings. Suleman became famous when she gave birth to octuplets in 2009.

Now, after the birth, she was reportedly showered with free baby items and book and movie deals. And then she cried debt and went on welfare. Suleman also went on to make porn videos and fight in some celebrity boxing matches.

She now faces up to five years in jail if convicted.

Kimberly, what are the chances that the octomom will leave her -- I believe it's 14 kids. One set of twins. One is special needs.

So, we joke about this, but its very sad.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's very sad. Every time I look at the children, I want to know -- I mean, who is cooking dinner for them? Are they getting enough to eat? The children in that picture look good, but that's obviously some kind of promotional video. She's a criminal, and she used these children, she gave birth to these children to become some kind of commodity and make herself over to look like Angelina Jolie.

She's corrupted the law in every way she can to take advantage for her own personal and financial gain. Because she's made a spectacle of herself, she's caught the eye of the law, too, and the prosecutors, and they're not going to sit by and let her perpetuate the fraud on everyone. The problem is the children will suffer in the balance.

What is going to happen to the children? Like you said, one of her children is special needs. It's a serious situation, and it's shameful.

TANTAROS: Greg, she didn't report nearly $30,000 in earnings. Her film, "Octomom Home Alone", which is a little different than the Macaulay Culkin version from the 1990s.

GUTFELD: I found out by accident.

TANTAROS: Our official movie reviewer, Bob Beckel, is not here to preview it for us.

But does this depress you? She said she wanted the kids to be loved.

GUTFELD: She's not a mom, she's a vending machine. She's a poster child of a dependent society entitled to gratification without sacrifice. Welfare fraud is the new pursuit of happiness.

Scamming the United States is the new 9:00 to 5:00, and the reason why it exists is because -- I said this two days ago, I'm going to say it again. Criticism of bad behavior is now considered worse than the actual bad behavior.

You couldn't point out this is wrong because then you're seen as judgmental. And now, you have this --

TANTAROS: I think we pointed out that it was wrong, and I think on the show, we covered the welfare angle when she went on welfare initially.

So, we predicted this. She has all these kids. Who's going to pay for them? She's unemployed. Does she go back on welfare and we're going to foot the bills for the rest of her kids?

BOLLING: This is one of those little spoken about dirty little secrets that the IRS, if they have her -- and Kimberly makes a good point, because she was flaunting it, they're going to go after her, and they could end up throwing her in jail. If you're rich and you forget to report 30 grand, you pay your 30 grand, you make some sort of deal, and you walk.

Tim Geithner blamed TurboTax, a Web site, for his problems. He didn't report something like $100,000, yet he didn't spend time in jail.

Look, do I condone her behavior? No, but equal treatment for poor people and rich people under the law should be the case.

GUILFOYLE: What about the munchkins? That's the sad part. I feel so sad for them.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: If she goes to jail, what happens?

TANTAROS: Juan, one thing that we talk about a lot here on "The Five", especially when you're on, is the danger of encouraging people to be single mothers. It's the quickest pathway to poverty. She clearly -- I think Nadya Suleman has mental issues for the reason she want today have these kids, so it's sad. It makes me want to limit the number of kids people should have. But we're not going do that.

WILLIAMS: Very Chinese of you.

TANTAROS: A new -- yes, a new national bureau -- well, it's 14. Can we stop at 10?

WILLIAMS: I didn't realize this, you know? I mean, I thought I knew this story, but then I was reading and it said 14, including a set of twins apart from the eight, and then the autistic child. I was thinking, 14 children? And she never has said who the dad is, which is another, to me, cultural marker of total failing and dysfunction.

GUTFELD: Well, because it was really busy, Juan, and she wanted to give me my space.

WILLIAMS: It was you.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: It was my hero, until now.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: Hang on. A National Bureau of Economic Research found recently that shows like MTV's "Teen Mom" and "16 and Pregnant", are actually helping teens reduce the amount of teen pregnancies. So, people are watching the shows, young girls, and they're not getting pregnant.

Now, they're not -- they're still having sex. They're just not getting pregnant, Kimberly. So I watch the shows, and let me tell you something. It doesn't look glorified to me in any way. It may be doing some good.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I actually liked this report. I thought that was good news and encouraging because there was a lot of criticism in the beginning of the program to say, hey, is this going to have the opposite effect? Is it glamorizing it, saying you can get on TV, if you're young and underage and having a child? So, let's see.

WILLIAMS: Hey, let me pop in here and say, I hope the rappers realize popular culture makes a difference. If you glorify deadbeat dads who say, I got this woman pregnant and this is my baby's mama, it hurts. It hurts us. It hurts the American people. It's wrong. Stop it.

TANTAROS: We rag on MTV, but this is an example of cultural influence doing some good.

WILLIAMS: Positive.

BOLLING: Can I also point out you said the girls are watching that and it may help them not get pregnant? Guys are watching it, 16-year-old boys are watching it, 15-year-old boys are watching it, too, saying I don't want that life.

TANTAROS: Forty-seven-year-old men are watching the show, Greg, and they're saying, I don't want that life, right?

GUTFELD: Two points. If this changes behavior, then what about the other stuff they claim doesn't? Like depictions of promiscuity, hip-hop, misogyny, usually these people in networks who did these studies or whatever cherry pick results.

The other thing it was correlation, not cause. A didn't cause B. A and B happened at the same time. You could blame global warming.

My guess is it's abortion. If you want to allow it, you have to allow abortion, because I think a lot of it has to do with going to Planned Parenthood and terminating pregnancies.

GUILFOYLE: Or birth control.

TANTAROS: Yes.

GUTFELD: What's the other reason? Birth control, yes, they lumped it in control. So we don't know. That's the other angle that may not --

TANTAROS: They aren't telling us.

GUTFELD: It may not be as savory for us conservatives, but it might be true.

TANTAROS: We have to debate this on another show.

GUIFOYLE: Yes.

TANTAROS: Coming up, Super Bowl Sunday is less than three weeks away and everybody is catching football fever. Even this pastor who took drastic measures at Sunday mass to make sure he didn't miss his 49ers in the playoffs.

Plus, a ticket scandal ahead of this weekend's championship games. Are some teams banning certain fans? We'll have that next for you on "The Five".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: The road to the Super Bowl. Now just 19 days away from the big game, and we want to show you what one die-hard 49ers fan just did. It's going viral on the Internet.

Pastor Tim Christiansen from a church in Montana didn't want to miss the playoff game last Sunday, so he gave a very, very short sermon -- one minute long -- so he could go watch his team.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM CHRISTIANSEN, PASTOR: There is a football game starting in just a few moments. Not that I have any invested interest in the game or the outcome of that game whatsoever, but I was thinking we might have just a little bit of an abbreviated service.

It's peace, and love, and serve the Lord.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We will. Thanks be to God.

CHRISTIANSEN: And I'm out of here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: God has already forgiven Pastor Tim, because it was just a joke. Take it easy. Turns out he actually held a full service after that, and the congregation was in on it.

Speaking of the playoffs, tickets in high demand for this weekend's games, and the Seahawks and the Broncos are doing everything they can to protect their home-field advantage. That includes restrictions on tickets for people who live outside of their home turf. If you live outside the state near them, hey, you're not invited to the big party.

Greg, what do you say?

GUTFELD: It's specifically targeting San Francisco fans.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: There are other areas, and Seattle, Oregon, everything is OK, except for I believe the San Francisco, the Bay Area. So a bakery cannot be allowed to deny baking a cake for -- for a wedding, because that would be a violation of rights. However, you can deny tickets based on where you live. That is Frisco-esque.

GUILFOYLE: San Francisco.

GUTFELD: It's locationism.

GUILFOYLE: San Francisco fans are so civilized. Amazing tailgates. And we have champagne and caviar, and use Grey Poupon. And it's the most amazing -- what?

WILLIAMS: Didn't they just whack a Dodger fan in the head last week?

BOLLING: Was it reversed? Wasn't it reversed?

GUTFELD: Yes, it was the Dodgers...

WILLIAMS: I have to tell you, this is not...

GUILFOYLE: That's not fair, and that's little cry-babies. Be a real man, play football. Why?

BOLLING: Very fair, because these are football teams and these are businesses, and they can sell -- as long as they don't discriminate on the major categories of discrimination, if you discriminate on location, that's quite all right.

GUILFOYLE: I just don't see how (ph).

GUTFELD: Aren't we all from a location? Isn't every ethnicity from a location?

TANTAROS: Yes. But the Founding Fathers didn't put that in the documents.

WILLIAMS: But you know what it is? It's home field advantage. You have to preserve it. You know, I just can't say. I live in Washington, D.C., and everybody from everywhere else lives in Washington. So you go to the game, you go to The Nationals or the Redskins, and there are all these fans from all these other places, and you think, what are you doing there?

TANTAROS: I think it's a smart business decision for them to do it. They have over, I think, 13,000 Seahawks fans that are lining up for the tickets. The more Seahawks fans, the better crowd, the louder.

GUILFOYLE: It's loud in there.

TANTAROS: My personal position: their tickets, their stadium, their business.

GUILFOYLE: But that stadium is really loud. It's always tough for teams to play games there, away games there. But the Niners are still going to win by a couple points.

BOLLING: Take the Niners, and let's go with the underdogs. Take the Patriots, too.

WILLIAMS: You know what -- you know what I want to say, though? Pastor Tim, you know what? I love it. I thought that was terrific.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: And you know what? To me, it's inspirational. My pastor always says that on Sundays when there's a big football game, fewer people come to church. I bet more people come to Pastor Tim's church now.

"One More Thing" right up. Stay with us.

GUILFOYLE: How charming.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing." I'm going to kick it off. I've always been a big fan of Howard Stern, a big fan of "America's Got Talent." This morning, I was getting texted and e-mails saying, "Howard Stern was talking about you guys at 'The Five.'" He called -- well, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD STERN, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: I've voted for some conservative candidates, OK, but I've also voted for some very liberal candidates. I don't know where I stand politically.

MICHAEL IAN BLACK, COMEDIAN: You strike me as kind of a libertarian.

STERN: Yes, I think so, and if somebody's really competent at governing, I will vote for them and that kind of thing. Like my favorite TV show? "The Five" on FOX. You ever watch that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So he goes on to say -- actually, he had some really nice things to say about Greg.

TANTAROS: He loves Greg.

BOLLING: Not so many thing nice things to say about Bob Beckel. But that's OK. Howard...

GUILFOYLE: He loves the girls.

GUTFELD: ... a shout-out. We're big fans of yours, as well. By the way, happy birthday.

GUILFOYLE: And by the way, he has the best wife. Beth is incredible.

TANTAROS: And Robin, his sidekick, is also a fan of "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: Maybe we can work something out.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: You know, January 14 is probably one of my favorite days of the year, perhaps in the -- my entire existence. All I think about is January 14, because it's the birthday for the best and coolest newsman in the world, and I talk about Mr. Shep Smith, who turns a spry 40 today. Look at him. He's fantastic.

And I got him a gift. It's my new book, "Not Cool," which is available on order at Amazon or wherever fine books are sold.

Shep, it's not out yet, but I just ordered it for you and it will be coming to FOX News. So keep an eye out for it.

GUILFOYLE: You had to use Shepard's birthday to sell your book?

TANTAROS: You're shameless.

GUTFELD: I am a shameless plugger.

TANTAROS: It should be called "Shameless" by Greg Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: That's a good idea for a follow-up.

BOLLING: Where should we get that book?

GUTFELD: Anywhere. You can get it at Gutfeld.com, or you can get it at Amazon.

GUILFOYLE: I'll have to take a raincheck.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: He's 40-ish.

GUTFELD: He'll always be 40.

WILLIAMS: So you're wondering, how is Mitt Romney doing after that upsetting election? Well, guess what? He's busting a move. Check this video out. Unbelievable.

Here he is at a Mormon youth conference. And they invite him up onstage, and what did he do? He went "Gangnam Style." Yes, check him out. Oh, yes. Getting loose.

BOLLING: Actually, I think he's got the moves like Jagger.

WILLIAMS: Is that what it is?

BOLLING: I believe so.

WILLIAMS: But you know what, Eric? Eric, in the tradition of Republicans gone wild, he can't beat this at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at him move, doing the rapping dance. That's true, he's a dancing resident. He's a sidekick to the president. Just throw us a bone and tell me what is your name?

KARL ROVE, FORMER ADVISOR TO GEORGE W. BUSH: M.C. Rove.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Yes, M.C. Rove, my man. When I get back, I'm going to have to tease him, because that -- that stands as the standard. Mitt Romney, you're terrific, but you're no Karl Rove.

BOLLING: Or something like that. Andrea.

TANTAROS: OK, this is a very male-themed "One More Thing." Howard Stern, who I love. Shepard Smith, Mitt Romney, and now Lou Dobbs of the FOX Business Network has a new book out called "Upheaval" where he offers his solutions to the Republican Party.

This book is great. I mean, he gets into some really good points. One of them, he tells a Republican, stop killing each other. It's really, really good advice, and of course, Lou is just a great guy. And you can see him at 7 p.m. on the FOX Business Network, but this is an excellent book, and he's been a very good friend to me and the show.

BOLLING: Lou Dobbs.

TANTAROS: So go get it.

WILLIAMS: He's one of my heroes.

GUILFOYLE: Go, Lou. Go, Lou.

Dancing for Lou. Shake it up.

TANTAROS: Stir the soup.

GUILFOYLE: I've had too many Twizzlers. Let's not kid around.

All right. All right, so we're going to put a little lady in "One More Thing." Too much testosterone.

How about a little Gisele on your life? Gisele Bundchen, she's under a lot of criticism here. But she was riding in her ATV while holding her daughter with the other hand. And you know, no seat belt, no helmet. And I don't know, what do you guys think about this?

TANTAROS: She makes everything look good. Can we just give her that? She's just incredibly awesome.

GUILFOYLE: But she's been on a couple parenting controversies. I'm not even going to look at this.

BOLLING: Whatever she wants, on whatever vehicle she wants.

TANTAROS: You have Sofia Vergara parked in front of you.

BOLLING: We've got a response to a piece on Chris Christie. It's on FOX Nation right now. Don't forget to set your DVRs so you don't miss an episode of "The Five." We'll be back here tomorrow.

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