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The Five

White House circles wagons after Gates drops bombshell

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 8, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and my puppet, Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York. And this is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

PERINO: Five years ago, in an address to West Point cadets, President Obama made this major announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As commander in chief, I have determined that it is in our vital national interest to send an additional 30,000 U.S. troops to Afghanistan.

I do not make this decision lightly. I make this decision because I am convinced that our security is at stake in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: And now the man who helped him execute the Afghan surge is publicly questioning the president's commitment to that decision. In a new book, former Defense Secretary Robert Gates recalled a meeting he attended months after at the White House. He said, quote, "As I sat there, I thought the president doesn't trust his commander, can't stand Karzai, doesn't believe in his own strategy and doesn't consider the war to be his. For him, it's all about getting out."

Here's Charles Krauthammer's reaction to that statement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Think about this. You're the secretary of defense. He's the president, he's sending 30,000 more troops into battle, and three months later, secretary of defense realizes that Obama doesn't believe in the surge or believe in the war or believe in his own actions. How can a commander in chief in good conscience do that?

I do think this is an indictment of the president that rises above everything else he's done in his presidency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I'm going to start with our most recent author of the panel, who has a book coming. Do you think that Robert Gates is breaking any new ground here, or confirming what a lot of people just suspected all along?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, first of all, since President Obama keeps saying Pakistan, I'm going to refer to him as the commander in chief.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: So, we learned that President Obama is ambivalent. You can't blame a leopard for his spots. It speaks to a fundamental discomfort that President Obama has had with American power all his life. He's cultivated a mindset that the United States is the Goliath that kind of needs to be tamed. So, now, he's in charge of arming the Goliath and he doesn't know how to do it. You don't put a community organizer in the role of the commander in chief.

How does this affect the mission? Well, people can tell when you're not into a relationship. In this case, he's in a relationship with a war but it's more like a marriage of convenience. It was his beard -- Afghanistan was his beard to prove to the world that he wasn't a radical and he was willing to fight.

Does that make sense?

PERINO: I think so. On a scale of 1 to 10, how damning is it? Because a lot of what -- I haven't read the whole book, just a lot of excerpts and commentary about it. It's not all bad for President Obama. Although, I think that Obama and Hillary take a couple licks and certainly Joe Biden doesn't come out looking like a rose, smelling like a rose, I should say.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: I am -- I am not surprised about what I read in this book. I mean, I actually think this whole to topic that we have been talking about and has been on cable news is just another phony scandal.

I mean, think about it, President Obama ran against bush's wars, right? He was supposed to be the non-war president.

PERINO: Well, not Afghanistan.

TANTAROS: Well, he said that was the good war, but he was never Mr. Pro- War President. I mean, he was always against war, if you look at who he really is.

GUTFELD: And so, I'm not surprised he put half of his heart into this effort. Again, that he supported it for political reasons and that Hillary did it for political reasons -- I mean, film at 11:00 on that one. That's not surprising either.

What I think is appalling is that his heart wasn't in it and he did do the surge. And he didn't just pull the troops out. He should have just pulled them. He shouldn't have announced a timeline. Instead, we spent years and years and year, I believe, wasting blood and treasure to allow towns like Fallujah to be retaken by the Islamists and spend a lot of money creating a European pension welfare state for a bunch of goat herders. It's my opinion.

PERINO: Before we get to Eric and Bob, can I play a little bit of sound? The White House was on full alert and started to defend the president and Vice President Joe Biden.

And here's a couple former White House staffers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISOR: I was surprised when I saw the stories yesterday because I always felt they had a good working relationship. He always indicated that he had a good working relationship with the president.

BILL DALEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: This rush to do books bike people who leave an administration while the administration is ongoing, I think is unfortunate. It's one thing, as historians look back on an administration, but in the middle of it, when you're pursuing a war at the same time and one that is very controversial with the American people, and has been very difficult on our military, I think it's just a disservice, to be very frank with you.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

PERINO: So, Eric, in both of those sound bites, you don't have former administration officials disputing the accounts in the book, what actually happened. They're just expressing disappointment. Did that surprise you at all?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I'm not sure. I don't think Gates is going to lie about any of the accounts. I mean, he literally, Ands, on the one where he said that President Obama and Hillary Clinton discussed what they were going to do or what their opinions on troop surges or pulling back troops based on politics, I found that mind-boggling, mind-blowing our kids are getting blown up by roadside bombs and these two are worried about the politics.

TANTAROS: That the politician does something for politics and that's a story?

BOLLING: Well, it's one thing when you're spending money and redistributing wealth, but it's another when you're sending our kids into harm's way. I find it mind-blowing.

TANTAROS: So was Clinton.

BOLLING: Fair enough.

Overreaching theory here, principle here, Obama has always been a liberal ideologue. He's been a community organizer that Greg points out. He's always been interested in social justice over American exceptionalism, but what more perfect representation of American exceptionalism than our military?

So, of course he's going to pull back on things like our military and he's going to push things like redistribution of wealth as his crowning achievement. So I'm not surprised. But I am surprised that Gates waited until now to say this stuff.

TANTAROS: That's what I -- actually let's play a quote from somebody that, Bob, you respect, but you don't always agree with, Brit Hume, wondering about that very question.

I thought we did have Brit Hume. I have the comment. I can read it. How about that? I read.

He says that nobody comes out of this very well. I might add, to make -- he was making on "THE KELLY FILE" last night, that "I'm not sure Secretary Gates comes out of this all that well either. If he thought these things and felt them as strongly as he said he did, one wonders why he stayed as long as he did and why he didn't say something at the time."

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I think it's exactly right. I mean, look, it's -- these people who write these books, they have every right in the world to write them. But I don't think Hillary Clinton would put a book out while the administration is still in play.

And it is true, Obama has less interest in wars, but let's keep in mind that almost every major war in the country, the Democrats have been in the White House, and have fulfilled their job as commander in chief, World War I, World War II, Korea, on Vietnam. So I think it's a little bit lame to be blaming liberals for being weak on wars.

The other thing is, I don't think anybody could expect --

BOLLING: Did anyone here blame liberals for being weak on war?

BECKEL: You could. You blame liberals on a sore foot.

BOLLING: I'll speak for myself. I blame President Obama.

BECKEL: OK, fine, you blame Obama. OK. All the liberals.

But let me say this about Hillary Clinton. I think she's comes out of this great. Everything I have said about her, she's been an exceptional secretary of state, Gates backs it up 100 percent. I think that's a good thing to come out of it. But I think Hume is exactly right. Gates could have waited.

He decided not to, and the other thing that, what Brit said was, why didn't you say something about it? Where is the courage to stand up and say this is wrong? He didn't have the guts to do it then, but he had the guts to do it when he --

PERINO: But I don't think it's about bravery or courage or guts when it comes to Robert Gates. I actually think that it was about respect.

One of the things he says is that he was so surprised as he was sitting there in the Oval Office and Obama -- or it might have been, I don't know if it was the Oval Office, but in a White House meeting, that both Obama and Hillary Clinton are talking about very openly how they made political decisions to oppose President Bush's surge strategy in 2008.

Now, maybe you can paper that over as oh, well, that's politics, but I think people who oppose Hillary Clinton would actually say that's one of the reasons judgment-wise they don't think she's fit to be commander in chief.

GUTFELD: I mean, the fact -- it's an example of Hillary putting politics before people. Politics to Hillary is the way women are to her husband. She can't turn down an opportunity to score. And this was an opportunity to score.

BECKEL: There's not a Republican who has run for president as far as I know in (INAUDIBLE) who has not used politics about foreign policy to make some point.

GUTFELD: Very unpopular decisions made by Republicans that lost elections.

BOLLING: But don't you have to draw the line between making some decisions and actually sending people into harm's way?

BECKEL: Was this not a question about whether they were both going up against each other in the Iowa caucuses?

BOLLING: That was Hillary's end. She said I was going up against you, so I took a stance.

President Obama, on the other hand, sent 30,000 troops into harm's way, and then three months later, saying -- said according to Gates, he didn't think it was the right strategy. Noncommittal. Non-leadership.

PERINO: Let me get Andrea in here on this question. One of the things that Gates talks about is the management of the White House and the heavy hand that he felt that politics was playing a role, and that domestic politics were a consideration in all of the discussion about foreign policy.

Do you think that actually is an indictment against the Obama administration or that most Democrats would say, well, that's good?

TANTAROS: I think that -- speaking about what the domestic policy was at the time or where the minds of the American people were, I think they were war-weary at the time. I think President Obama and Hillary Clinton, based on politics and based on what the public was feeling at that time, really probably wanted to oppose the surge. I do, because the American public likely would have been with them.

But again, I think Hillary wanted to brand herself as a war hawk. She was on the Armed Services Committee. President Obama didn't want to look weak.

But again, I don't think this is shocking stuff. He's not a pro-war guy. He should have just brought the troops out instead of democracy building in countries that will just never have, and I really think that Republicans have done this for too long and it's gotten us into some pretty tough predicaments and I actually agree with Bob. A lot of it has been done for politics, not by everybody, but both sides do it.

PERINO: I'll just end it with this. That one of the things that Bob Woodward writes in his report today in the Washington Post is that Gates' severe criticism is even surprising, some may say contradictory because towards at the end of the duty, the name of the Gates book, he says, I believe Obama was right in each of these decisions.

So, again, not completely damning for the president.

BECKEL: Can I make one last point? What Gates said about Congress was exactly right. He called them a bunch of nincompoops, idiots, they're all politics, none of them had any -- no substance, very few had substance. I was glad to see somebody finally take these guys on in Capitol Hill, who think they're keen kings and queens of the world, when in fact what they basically are garbage men who take their own politics and push it through and come out with something they thought will help them.

I mean, it's just --

PERINO: It certainly was not a flattering picture of Congress and I think he probably got it exactly right.

GUTFELD: But remember, President Obama was not put on the planet to rally troops. He was put on the planet to rally activists, and we elected him.

PERINO: And here we are, coming up to the end of a fantastic A-block.

And next, we're going to talk about that "Rolling Stones" columnist who defends his communist advice for America's youth and a "Wall Street Journal" columnist that takes on the race-baiting at MSNBC. And then Bob Costas takes on a new sport at the Olympic Games, slope-style,

That and more when "The Five" return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody.

Another installment of the fastest seven minutes in cable news or otherwise, seven fascinating sound bites -- I'm sorry, three fascinating sound bites, seven fleeting minutes and one probing (ph) host.

First up, take Marxism as socialism on steroids. Now, check out "Rolling Stone" writer and admitted Marxist Jesse Myerson trying to explain himself out of an anti-American piece he wrote in "Rolling Stone." Myerson set up a storm of controversy. Listen to the little wussy commie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE MYERSON, ROLLING STONE COLUMNIST: The right wing had basically never heard of me until this twit named Charles Cook, twit from "The National Review", tweeted out this article Friday night at 9:00. Once that membrane was punctured, all of the like hate -- bigoted and hateful and violent muck and filth just like do all over my (INAUDIBLE) and has basically not let up in the intervening few days.

Full communism is sort of a tongue in cheek, post-Occupy joke, but look, I will cop to identifying as a communist, but -- and I'm happy to defend my political identity, but basically, the backlash didn't -- was all about my political identity, and almost none of it mentioned the like thing that I wrote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Anyone else want to puke listening to these guys?

Go ahead, Greg. You kick this one off.

GUTFELD: I mean, it was like watching two pajama boys trying to explain what they were going to do that night.

It really is. It's like they were comparing dolphin tattoos on their ankles, but this is great. I'll tell you why, because this is where this nonsense should exist. I'd rather have communism being discussed by two dweebs on a panel, on a show nobody watches, than an ideology systematically killing 100 million people.

Keep communism on there, go for it, talk about it, but I love the up speak, oh, my God.

BOLLING: Oh, my God.

If you read the article, it looked like a parody at first, maybe it wasn't parody. Now, it's getting back to now it's a parody after all.

TANTAROS: Communism is a parody. What he's saying doesn't make any sense. Jesse Myerson, if he really believes what he says, should give them 100 percent of his earnings and whatever he makes from writing these crappy "Rolling Stone" articles and his purple sweater and his iPhone and everything that he owns to the government, if that's what he really believes. What I find is funny is if what he says becomes true, then the government takes over the newspapers and a lot of the magazines and Mr. Myerson won't be allowed to, I'm sure, write these crappy columns anymore.

BOLLING: Roll some video of Myerson, Bobby. Those are your peeps, right there. Those two guys.

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: Yes. Well, I will say this -- why we're even discussing this is beyond me, but what he did say that I think, he made one point that I think is important, that nobody really did talk about some of the points he made, like state banks, which I'm very much in favor of. The rest of it was a little off the wall, a lot off the wall.

But nobody talks about the substance. They talked about him, making fun of him, and that's what we're doing.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: That's exactly the point he was saying.

GUTFELD: -- monologue on it.

BOLLING: He's accused -- he said the same thing you said, everybody is attacking him rather than the substance of the piece. But, as you know, the intro just talked about communism, Marxism.

PERINO: And on Monday, you two had a rousing debate about public banks and state banks.

BECKEL: Yes. I know, he's against them, I'm for them.

BOLLING: Quick thought on this one before we move on.

PERINO: This is what I would say, is that the up-talking at the end of every sentence, it is not helping any millennial. You've got to stop it. If your employees do it, stop them, because you will not get promoted, they will not be taken seriously. You cannot understand a word he was saying because it was so annoying.

GUTFELD: He should be working at the piercing pagoda at the mall.

BOLLING: We got to go.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: I got my ears pierced. Don't knock that place.

BOLLING: As a white conservative, if I disagree with a liberal who happens to be black like President Obama or the Reverends Al and Jesse, liberals of all persuasions fill in the blogs with comments like Bolling's a racist. So, what if those lib idiots are going to say about Jason Riley, a respected columnist for "The Wall Street Journal".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON RILEY, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: I think there's a pattern of MSNBC of them hiring black mediocrities like Melissa Harris-Perry, Michael Eric Dyson, Toure, and, of course, the grand daddy of them all, Al Sharpton, simply to race-bait. They come on the air and they say racially inflammatory things, they drag race into discussions where they often don't belong, and their take on it is generally that all of black people's problems are caused by white people, and if you disagree with that, Mary, you're a racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right. Ands, it's going to be tough for us to come up with something for that, right?

TANTAROS: You know, I watched on C-Span the other day. It was a panel, and it was at Tulane University, where Melissa Harris-Perry is a professor there. The amount of anti-white vitriol that came out of that panel, the race-baiting that took place, a lot of people don't watch CNN, was shocking.

I don't think they do it to be shocking. I think a lot of these commentators and hosts deeply believe what they're saying. I think that's really the problem, they're not doing it for shock value. They really believe it.

BOLLING: Thoughts, Bobby?

BECKEL: My thought is I think this guy was way over the line when he said that everybody -- I mean, I don't watch MSNBC because nobody else does, and you can't talk about it. But the fact of the matter is that to suggest that these -- that black commentators are in the business of race-baiting all the time is absolutely absurd.

It's just ridiculous. Let's talk about conservative black people, aren't they wonderful? I think the guy is an idiot.

BOLLING: If you're conservative, you disagree with a liberal, you're a racist.

PERINO: You think that Jason Riley, a "Wall Street Journal" editorial writer, is an idiot?

BECKEL: I do, for that comment.

TANTAROS: What?

PERINO: Well, maybe you should probably qualify it. I would just recommend to people, if you're looking for a black intellectual conservative to follow, his writing is top-notch. He's written amazing things about education and educational choice and he's an excellent voice for conservative point of view, and I think he's a very fair person and one I would seek out.

BOLLING: Greg?

GUTFELD: MSNBC is the Match.com for victims of perceived injustice. It's why their audience has the combined spine of a custard. It's a network for tear ducts.

BOLLING: Very nice.

Finally, Bob Costas was on a talk show and suggested the Olympics were getting a little too x-gamey for his liking. He got buzz, but when Costas repeated that to Matt Lauer, he probably forgot the Olympics were being hosted by NBC, lower's boss. Open mouth, insert both feet, Costas, again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB COSTAS, NBC SPORTS: I think the president of the IOC should be Johnny Knoxville, because basically, this is just jack ass stuff, but they invent it and call it Olympic sports.

MATT LAUER, NBC: You mean that in a good way.

COSTAS: I mean it in the kindest possible sentence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: I mean, you agree with Costa.

BECKEL: Absolutely. It's ridiculous they put the X-Games guys in there. You talk about the voice rising at the end. I mean, those guys are just a bunch -- well, you know.

PERINO: What about your buddy at Times Square? He was a snowboarder.

BECKEL: Yes, he was. Snowboarder is a little different than what this is. Snowboarding, this is snowboarding but all kinds of tricks and games and they have judges. I don't like judges in the Olympics. I think they're a bad idea because --

BOLLING: Wait, wait, how do you win? Everyone gets a medal. Everyone gets the same medal.

BECKEL: For example, in racing, you win by having the best time.

TANTAROS: Bob, this is an opportunity for you to say something nice about Greeks, maybe, in the ancient Greeks and tradition. You want to take that opportunity or no?

BECKEL: I think that's the way they handle the Greek problem, let's move all the Olympics full-time to Greece and maybe that would help them with their economy.

BOLLING: Dana hit it on the head. It's all about the ratings.

PERINO: Well, they needed, what Bob Costas is saying for his generation, he's looking at, he thinks that it's ridiculous, but what do the Olympics need. You need to keep people interested. So, you need what I call the Nixon watch crowd.

A friend of mine created Nixon watches which basically -- they sell things to the surfing, skateboarding crowd. You want those young people to be watching the Olympics. You could have curling for the old people. You could have snow-sloping for the young people.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Young people, I can't even do that very well.

GUTFELD: It's not bad, totally.

PERINO: Thank you.

GUTFELD: You know, I don't have much to say about Costas, but Matt Lauer is turning into Sigmund Freud.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: What's happening?

BOLLING: All right. We'll leave it there.

A big victory for gun owners next. Some great news out of Chicago where there was just an important win for the Second Amendment. Greg has the details, coming right up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: A federal judge has struck down Chicago's ban on gun sales, calling it unconstitutional. U.S. District Judge Edmund Chang said the ban didn't square with the statistics that bad guys rarely buy weapons from licensed dealers, which is true. Thugs are notoriously nonchalant about gun bans. You might as well ask them to wear belts.

Who does this decision affect? To me, it's a big win for minorities, for gays, and for women. Minorities who run businesses in urban crime zones can now protect themselves. This is key since surveys of felons show that the biggest factor in choosing a victim is whether they're armed or not. A free TV isn't worth a new orifice.

As for gays, there's no better way to reduce gay bashing than being strapped. Talk about real equality.

Finally, for women, who on average have less muscle mass than men, a snub nose on your hip is a great equalizer, far better than a gym membership. Who needs a stair climber when you've got a Smith and Wesson. Sure. Go ahead, work on your glutes, but also carry a Glock.

So, as new research shows that more legal guns means less crime, this ruling is a win. Not just for all those gun nuts the media mocks, but for everyone else who deserves a fighting chance against thieves. And it underlines one great truth, that in a world where evil preys on the most vulnerable, keeping the peace means keeping a piece.

PERINO: Ooh, I see what you did there.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's a little play on words. I haven't done that before.

Andrea, is this because most of the facts -- the judge is basically saying the facts that gun control advocates use aren't bearing out anything real? That more legalized guns doesn't mean more gun murder?

TANTAROS: I think this judge is specifically looking at precedent from the Supreme Court, if you look at the Heller case. It says that you cannot -- you can have -- you can't have a law, I should say, that stops you from having a gun in your own home.

So, I think that this judge, even though he was appointed by President Obama, he's on solid judicial ground. I think we're just so used to judges ruling different ways, we're shocked when one follows the letter of the law and sound precedent directly from the Supreme Court. But you made the best point in your monologue, Greg.

Look at laws like stop and frisk, stand your ground. They disproportionally benefit African-Americans, women. They should have guns. We should be allowed to defend ourselves. In Chicago, it's in just a case study. You don't need any other facts besides strictest gun laws, highest crime rate. Who is most effective?

GUTFELD: Bob, you're grinning.

BECKEL: Because I wanted to see if you could repeat again the thing about the gays. Why it's helpful for the gays, but that's OK.

Yes. First of all, it's not the murder capital of the world. Chicago has had a plummeting murder rate in the last 12 months.

GUTFELD: That is true.

BECKEL: It is true. You can argue that there's a new police chief, but the fact is it's gone way down.

GUTFELD: Because it was so high.

TANTAROS: They didn't have anywhere else to go.

BECKEL: I'm not going to argue with you about this because I know I'm outnumbered four to one. I'm going to say this, last year, there are about 560 children were killed in accidents with guns in a home. That to me, and all the handguns, if I were ruling the world and the ruling this country, there would be no handguns. You could have long rifles. That's fine.

But the idea that -- listen, too many children are dying as a result of these things. I think it's a mistake. If the NRA wants to do something, another kid got killed this month. Why don't you go to his funeral this week? How about that?

GUTFELD: That's a really emotional response.

Eric, we're trying to do with stats.

BOLLING: Yes. Let's stay with stats. I have a hunch there are 100 or 200 things that killed more kids than guns last year. Choking on a hotdog probably is one of them. You don't want to ban hotdogs, I assume?

BECKEL: That's a different situation.

BOLLING: The gun debate is kind of like the climate change, global warming debate in reverse. In global warming, they says, the liberals say, no, it's really bad. You have to trust us. We don't have the stats to back it up. They have to trust us. Gun debate, we have the stats. But we don't want you to trust the stats.

But in both cases, we have to trust the liberals that they know what's best.

BECKEL: Stats by all the right-wing gun nuts. I forwarded a thing that said --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Wait a second. You're telling me that you're going to fall back on that Florida study, right?

GUTFELD: You always use the Florida study, but that's not the only study, Bob. There's more and more research that shows more legal gun ownership does not translate into more murders.

BECKEL: There's also a bug on the bottom that says National Rifle Association.

GUTFELD: Yes, it wasn't there in this study that found that most restricted states had 10 percent lower murder rate.

I want to go to Dana.

This is a quote from the Detroit Police Chief James Craig. He said, basically, he said more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them. That's pretty strong and from the Detroit police chief.

PERINO: So, somebody in the know, somebody who is experiences and somebody who wants people to help them help themselves.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: One thing none of the studies do is what people really react to is not just necessarily handgun violence. It's the mass murders that happen, like at Sandy Hook. That is still a mental health issue. It's not necessarily a gun control issue. That is something that I think the administration is giving it a shot, but that's the toughest nut to crack.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's also the smallest -- there is a belief that these mass crime -- shooting sprees are on the increase, and they're not.

BECKEL: Let me ask you, just to throw this out here for all you gun supporters. If this child who was killed two weeks ago, his father was indicted because he left his gun out. Could you agree that anybody who leaves their gun unlocked in a house ought to be indicted if somebody gets killed?

GUTFELD: I think it's a problem, yes.

BECKEL: Do you think they it should be indicted?

TANTAROS: Do you think it's the biggest problem related to gun control? No. More kids die from medical malpractice, swimming pools. The list goes on and on.

It's a fundamental right. It's in the Bill of Rights. It's in the Constitution.

The liberals love to interpret -- if you start to interpret the Second Amendment and say it doesn't really go that way? Are we going to apply that same statute to the Fourth, or then the First? We're just going to interpret it?

BECKEL: Look, I can see that the Second Amendment does say a well regulated militia and people have a right --

BOLLING: You forgot the other part, a right to keep and bare arms.

BECKEL: That's what I said. Listen, I accept this, it doesn't mean I have to like it, right? I think they're dangerous things and we're a gun society, and most legitimate societies around the world who don't allow guns, kids don't get killed.

GUTFELD: All right. I think we can all agree that we don't like it when kids get killed, Bob. But the other point is, the safest people are the people with the guns.

BOLLING: There's no indication it's safer in Great Britain.

BECKEL: How many kids in Great Britain do you think were killed with guns.

BOLLING: Handguns are banned in Great Britain and I think the death rate by gun isn't any lower than it is here.

BECKEL: Oh, that's ridiculous.

GUTFELD: All right. We've got to role. We can do that tomorrow.

GUTFELD: Ahead, more controversy for "Elle" magazine, I subscribe. Did the fashion publication intentionally hide the body -- sounds like she's dead -- hide the body of one of the actresses featured on its cover next month? The history has kept me up all night. Next on "The Five".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TANTAROS: Well, four Hollywood starlets are featured on alternating covers of the new women in TV edition of "Elle" magazine. But one of them doesn't look like the rest, and critics have taken notice.

The cover show actresses Mindy Kaling, Allison Williams, Amy Poehler, and Zooey Deschanel.

Now, look at Kaling's cover on the far left. Hers is a crop shot while the others have full body shown. Some say it's an effort to hide Kaling's size eight curves, something the magazine has been accused of before. But "Elle" is dismissing the controversy saying Mindy looks, quote, "sexy, beautiful, and chic."

Now, Kaling herself tweeted that she loves her cover and that it made her feel glamorous and cool. So I do think she looks great. Greg, there is a difference on how they portrayed her versus these other models with much smaller frames. You used to work as a magazine editor.

GUTFELD: True.

TANTAROS: Deliberate to hide a size 8, which is like a size 20 in the fashion world?

GUTFELD: We used to do this all the time with fat people. It's disgusting.

You know, this is another -- it's media generating direct. She's a beautiful girl. She's very funny. Who cares if she's big or small?

I'm just mad there's no men on the cover. It's pretty sexist on "Elle's" part. There are men on TV and this is what they do? You make me sick.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: "Elle" is a French pronoun for a woman.

GUTFELD: I don't care, "Elle".

TANTAROS: It's anti-male. Is it really a big deal? I have a recent "Vogue" magazine, Dana, and it's Jennifer Lawrence, who is beautiful and has a hot body, and they crop her. It's just a head shot. So, much to do about nothing?

PERINO: I think yes, very much to do about nothing. Much, much, much squared. Because "Elle" magazine knows how to sell magazines. The cover is the most important thing, right? Is that right?

GUTFELD: I guess so. I lost interest.

PERINO: And so, they decided, plus, I think, if she's happy with it, great.

TANTAROS: What do you think, Eric? Fashion industry doesn't like big girls?

BOLLING: They did it four different occasions. They all look fabulous, they all look terrific. No one is offended. The only people who are offended are some people who make a living out of being offended about stuff.

TANTAROS: They had Melissa McCarthy from "Bridesmaid", who's Jenny McCarthy's cousin.

They have her on the cover, and there was a big to-do about the fact they hid her in a big jacket rather than celebrate her curves. Bob is drooling over here, enamored by these covers on the big screen.

Bob, would you like to join the discussion?

BECKEL: Yes, sure. Hated it.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Totally.

BECKEL: Totally.

TANTAROS: Duh.

BECKEL: First of all, can you -- I don't know how you picked it up. This is a classic example of why I hate fashion. Obvious, obvious, right?

This thing is about 15 pounds, right? This is one magazine.

TANTAROS: Fall fashion.

BECKEL: Are you kidding me?

PERINO: Think about global warming effects.

TANTAROS: While you're talking, let me ask you about this because I know you'll have a very big, strong opinion on this one.

OK. Shakira says she's married to a guy who loves her curves. She doesn't care what the fashion industry says. She happens to have a husband who says this.

Now, here is Shakira quoted. She said, "My man, Gerard, prefers meat over bone. He doesn't like too skinny. That takes the pressure off. I already have a lot to worry about."

What do you think? I mean --

BECKEL: I think she's exactly right. I'm for a man who likes meat on the bone. Some of those women are so skinny. They're the poster children for anorexia. I mean, it's -- who cares? Except for the Juan Williams daughter. Very good looking.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: Brian Williams -- not Juan's daughter.

BECKEL: Sorry, Juan.

GUTFELD: Brian Williams' daughter, Allison Williams, you find attractive?

BECKEL: Yes, I do. Very much so.

TANTAROS: Greg, what do most men prefer, again, having edited a man's magazine. I am lucky, I date guys who like curves because I'm not a bean pole.

GUTFELD: I -- you know, guys aren't picky. My point with this --

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: That's for sure.

GUTFELD: With the Shakira thing, she's not fat. I get more bothered when hot pop singers or models talk about how, people don't mind when I gain weight. It's because you were already bone thin a month ago.

BECKEL: Exactly right. First of all, I'm fat. That woman is not fat. I think she's good looking. I --

TANTAROS: But her hips don't lie, Dana. She's known for having hips and a bottom, and she shakes it.

PERINO: I thought she was adorable. I loved her when she was on "The Voice" and I couldn't name a song that she sings, but I think she's so cute. I really like here. I've read a few interviews about her. I think she's great, a great role model.

BOLLING: That's wonderful.

PERINO: Eric?

BOLLING: Isn't it about time?

TANTAROS: No, no, I see you nodding your head over there. What do you think Shakira -- her boyfriend loves her curls?

BOLLING: That's all it's about -- loving your woman, your woman loving you back. Doesn't matter what you like, thin, heavy.

PERINO: Follow your arrow wherever it goes.

BECKEL: I feel that way, too. If I'm married, too, I might feel that way, too.

PERINO: OK, you are -- stop. Time-out. Bob, you're in the time-out.

BECKEL: With a shovel, stop digging?

BECKEL: I haven't dug a hole yet.

GUTFELD: What is it you like about Allison Williams?

BOLLING: Oh my gosh.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: OK.

BECKEL: Let's get to the next segment.

TANTAROS: How young is too young to work in America? Well, one governor thinks kids as young as 12 should be allowed to work in his state. We'll tell you what we think when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: I didn't get to the bikini bit, so we'll go to the governor of Maine who wants kids to get to work.

Republican Paul LePage is hoping to ease child labor regulations in his state. He claimed they're hurting the economy. Page wants children as young as 12 to be able to get a job.

He says, quote, "We don't allow children to work until they're 16, but two years later, they can go to war and fight for us. I started working far earlier than that, and it didn't hurt me at all. There's nothing wrong with being a paper boy at 12 years old."

Eric, were you a paperboy at 12 years old?

BOLLING: No, I was probably a paperboy earlier than that. This is great. I am so for this. I think it's fantastic.

You know, in a big part of the country, kids are helping out in the farms and what not. They're driving a lot -- in some places, you can get a driver's license at 14 or younger. It's fantastic. It's about time some of the liberal East Coasters get -- catch wind of this.

Yes, I was -- sold newspapers. Delivered newspapers. I also -- my father was a traveling salesman for a plastic company, right, so they would get these bags, boxes and boxes of plastic garbage bags. And he'd bring one home every once in a while, and I'd go in there, and I'd roll ten of them up, put a tie on it, and go sell them for a buck, door to door.

You just -- you do it; you just get it done. You teach kids the right thing, and you've got to do it. My kid is 15, and I have to keep pushing him, start working. Feel what it's like to earn something.

BECKEL: Dana, did you start work when you were young?

PERINO: Yes, I would babysit and things like that.

BECKEL: How old?

PERINO: Well, I would guess 12, 13, yes, for neighborhood kids.

BECKEL: Really?

PERINO: You can't get a young, teenage babysitter anymore.

BECKEL: You can't? Well, Greg still babysits.

GUTFELD: It's amazing. When a 49-year-old man shows up to babysit, they're often quite concerned, especially when they didn't call you.

PERINO: And you're not wearing pants.

GUTFELD: I disagree with this, because you know, I think that they shouldn't get a job until they're 26. Because if you're going to be on your parents' insurance, I don't want you to get hurt. I think you should stay at home in your pajamas and talk like this, and go "Oh, my God, I don't have to work today. I'm going to read RollingStone.com."

BECKEL: Can't you envision Greg in pajamas? I can. I mean...

PERINO: Do we have to?

GUTFELD: You don't have to. Go to my Web site.

BECKEL: Toes -- clothes off. You started working in your restaurant at 3, right?

TANTAROS: Nine.

GUTFELD: Oh, my God, really?

TANTAROS: I was a bus girl. I used to clean the tables. I'd stand there with a bus pan and I'd turn around. I'd have to clean the tables and clean up children's cheerios, which they drop on the floor. Parents, pick up the cheerios, please. That's a pain.

BECKEL: Well, listen, I'll tell you: I am all for this. I started work when I was very young. I worked on a garbage truck, which is probably not surprising. I did -- I mean, I was a dishwasher. All that stuff, before I was 15.

And the other thing about today is kids are getting so soft that they all come to their parents for money. They don't get jobs. There's plenty of jobs. They're exactly right; there's plenty of places they can work. And there aren't a lot -- they're not pushing a lot of people out of the labor force, people who are going to go mow lawns and things like that. They should go out there and work. They don't do it. They don't learn the value of a dollar.

TANTAROS: It's about a work ethic, too, because when you get older, if you get out of college and you can't get a job, you'll do any job. You'll waitress. You'll do anything, just because you know you've got to make your own money.

BECKEL: I went to work at a funeral parlor.

All right, "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: This could be playing before I talk.

PERINO: Bob, it's my turn.

BECKEL: All right.

PERINO: Time now for "One More Thing," but Bob, since you were already talking, you get to go first.

BECKEL: OK, today, if you've been alive, the greatest musician in the history of the world, including Beethoven, Bach, Wagner and all those old people, Elvis Presley, would have been 79 today. The king of rock 'n' roll, one of his great songs. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: ELVIS PRESLEY, "JAILHOUSE ROCK")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: My man!

GUTFELD: Where are the rest of those guys? What are they doing?

BECKEL: They're all dead of cocaine overdoses.

GUTFELD: They're probably all alive. They're his age. Right?

PERINO: You know what? If you were in that video, call us. Bob would love to take you to dinner.

BECKEL: If you survive being a musician to 79...

GUTFELD: A lot of -- as long as you keep playing, you can live a long time.

BECKEL: Maybe.

PERINO: Yes. And if you eat your fruits and vegetables.

BECKEL: Keith Richards is still alive, right?

GUTFELD: Yes.

TANTAROS: Barely.

PERINO: Your turn.

GUTFELD: Resurrected phrase: "snap." That's what happens when it gets really cold. It's called a snap. Let's use it. Stop with this polar vortex or whatever...

BOLLING: Did you ban "polar vortex"?

GUTFELD: No, I didn't. I just like the word "snap." It's a cold snap, people. Get over it.

TANTAROS: Can I use it in the context of, "Oh, snap"?

GUTFELD: I don't know, because then that changes.

TANTAROS: I knew he wouldn't like that.

GUTFELD: You can use it when discussing Rice Krispies. It's my favorite of the Krispies.

BOLLING: Favorite Krispie?

GUTFELD: The first one. Snap!

PERINO: I love that snap, crackle, pop.

GUTFELD: I love when it gets really, really soggy.

PERINO: I hate that. That's the worst part. I like it when it scratches the roof of your mouth.

OK, Andrea.

TANTAROS: OK, so there's nothing more annoying when you ask people for freezing cold pictures, and they send you sunny pictures on the beach. That's what they did yesterday here at ""The Five"."

Jimmy Kimmel knew that better than anybody, so he had one of his guys go out to talk to some Los Angeles people on the beach and see what happens when they started to brag about their warm climate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi to all our friends back home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to say we're here in Cali, and it's 70. Walking on the beach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were tanning so we'll come back all bronzed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Snowball!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Snowball!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to say hi to my entire family back in New York who is freezing their (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off while I'm in beautiful California.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Snow bucket!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Snow bucket!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: Genius.

Don't send warm pictures back to your friends back East if you're in California. Just freezing ones, only when I do it.

PERINO: Eric, your turn.

BOLLING: OK. So tomorrow, President Obama is going to announce five what he calls five Promise Zones -- San Antonio, Philly, L.A., southeastern Kentucky, and the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma -- where tax incentives and grants are going to battle poverty. But he calls these things Promise Zones. President Obama promises. Do we have any other promises he's recently made?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you like your health-care plan, you'll be able to keep your health-care plan. Period.

If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Why don't we do the whole thing on Obama care? Why don't we do that? Just because you can't go a day without it, right?

BOLLING: My "One More Thing."

BECKEL: Well, you always interrupt me when I do one that was very political. That was very political to dump that on there.

PERINO: I'm going to save -- I'm going to save my "One More Thing" and pitch it for a topic tomorrow.

GUTFELD: Oh.

PERINO: Because I feel like I really need to apologize to everybody who loves curling. The curling people. I didn't mean that you were old. I just meant that it's a sport that's been on for a long time and that older viewers might prefer to watch curling. And the younger viewers might prefer to watch...

GUTFELD: I would like to apologize for Dana apologizing. We've got to stop with these apologies. Stop apologizing.

BECKEL: I want to apologize. I do not apologize for my position on guns. So there you go. I know you're already tweeting me.

PERINO: If you like curling and you want to direct your ire at someone, direct it to Greg.

GUTFELD: Direct it at me. I'm not going to apologize. I'm not.

PERINO: Don't miss an episode of "The Five". You can DVR us. We'll be back here tomorrow.

BECKEL: Dana said she hated curling.

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The Five, hosted by Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Greg Gutfeld, Dana Perino, Juan Williams, and Andrea Tantaros, airs on Weekdays at 5PM ET on Fox News Channel.