Charles Krauthammer ventures into uncharted territory on 'The Five'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 18, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Andrea Tantaros, a talkative Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Greg Gutfeld and a special guest.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."


PERINO: We are thrilled to welcome back one of our favorite people here on "The Five," Charles Krauthammer is with us for the hour. The New York Times best-selling author of "Things that Matter" is here to talk about all of today's hot topics with us, starting with this most fascinating new admission from Barbara Walters about President Obama.


BARBARA WALTERS, TV HOST: He made so many promises. We thought that he was going to be -- I shouldn't say this at Christmastime -- but the next messiah.


PERINO: Notice she said "we" -- thought he would be the next messiah, including herself. She also explained why she thought that hope had faded.


WALTERS: The whole ObamaCare or whatever you want to call it, Affordable Health Act, it just hasn't worked for him, and he stumbled around on it. And people feel very disappointed because they expected more.


PERINO: And then she topped it off with this about why the president didn't make the cut for her most fascinating people this year.


WALTERS: I thought that there were people who were if not the president, a little more interesting.


PERINO: All right. Since we are very hospitable, we'll start with our guest here.

Charles, I wanted to ask you if you think that liberals need to be on some sort of national health plan for antidepressants after the year that they've had.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, AUTHOR,"THINGS THAT MATTER": Well, I mean, it's remarkable that it would take half a decade for the veil to be lifted from her eyes. Five years to realize the man isn't a messiah? I think it took some of us -- well, almost all of us, you know, an hour and a half to realize that he gives a good speech, but he's shown no aptitude at governing. So, I'm glad that she's aboard, but she's a little late.


PERINO: You are making noises over here.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: While listening to her?


GUTFELD: Yes, she makes my skin crawl. No offense.

But, you know, the fact is, she says he's not the messiah. Don't blame him because he made it to the first part -- the first syllable, which is OK with me. Mess. Messiah. See, I did that.

But I hate -- I'm like -- I agree. I hate media-come-latelies. Any objective, unbiased person saw this freight train of incompetence coming at them five years ago.

So, when you watch the media slam Obama now, it's like watching a drunk denounce alcohol because it's run out. He's already been re-elected. It's pointless.

I mean, now, they're doing it?

PERINO: But not unrealistic for people to have hope. Andrea, maybe it's the triumph of hope over experience.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: I just thought it was an interesting choice of pronoun, "we" thought he was the messiah. Who is the "we" there? The bulk of the mainstream media?

And a messiah is somebody who saves. Isn't that the definition? So, what exactly was Barbara hoping that he was going to save her from? Or us from?

I mean, if you look at the definition of liberalism, they believe they know better. So I guess they're saving us from ourselves and all of our bad choices.

And, Dana, you asked if there's some kind of depression program for them. Good news is yes, mental health is now covered under ObamaCare. So they can be treated if they can actually get coverage.

PERINO: And there's another way, Eric, which is the 2014 elections that are coming up next year, you think that could be an antidote to the depression?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I think it will be. I think the Republicans should stay on it. Here's the thing about that clip. To be honest, I hadn't seen it until just now. I can't believe how depressed she was. She was totally deflated.

I can't believe ObamaCare didn't work. I can't believe President Obama's not on my most fascinating list in 2013.

GUTFELD: That's how she normally looks, Eric.

BOLLING: Really, she's -- she's shocked that it's not working. But had she just listened -- by the way, is that journalism when you're that shocked that the president -- that you don't believe the president is -- it's not working?

PERINO: We're coming to you, Bob, next.

One of the other things she said is that expectations for President Obama were too high. Do you think the expectations were higher for President Obama than for other presidents?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Listen, I -- that's the key to politics, expectations. How do you manage expectations? Of course, they were high, but they're high for most presidents coming into office. The other thing I would say, after you take ObamaCare, which has yet to play out yet, this is a man who got us out of a war, pulled us out of a near depression. You guys are very easy to jump on him because of ObamaCare. But I get back to my point.

First of all, who cares what Barbara Walters thinks? She's been around too long. Secondly, anybody who puts the most fascinating person that twerking prostitute, Miley Cyrus --

PERINO: She didn't make it, though.

BECKEL: She didn't make it?

PERINO: I don't think so.

BECKEL: Good. Well, who else did she put on the list?

PERINO: Prince Charles -- the baby, the royal baby.


BECKEL: OK, good.

GUTFELD: How can a baby be fascinating? What has that baby done?

BECKEL: Who else is on the list?

PERINO: We'll get to that a little bit later in the show.

KRAUTHAMMER: It's the baby that sucks on the silver spoon.


PERINO: Oh, Charles. It's Charles in charge of "The Five."

BECKEL: The most fascinating people, that's good.

PERINO: OK, because you brought up ObamaCare, I think that we should roll a little clip from some ads that the administration is using to try to sell ObamaCare in an exchange with a reporter yesterday.


"COVERED CALIFORNIA" AD (rap song): You need that new health care, sign up because it's hot, sign up because it's hot, sign up because it's hot, and commander in chief and I'm two terms strong plus I've got this health care which has got it going on --

REPORTER: I mean, is anybody going to buy health care because "B-Rock O'Breezy" tells them to buy because it's hot?

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There are efforts under way to reach potential consumers where they live, if you will.


PERINO: Charles, in your wildest dreams, in all the politics you've covered, did you ever think you'd see an ad like that to sell a presidential program?

KRAUTHAMMER: You start out as the messiah, you end up as B-Rock O'Breezy (ph). How the mighty have fallen. I mean, that's quite remarkable.

Look, I can understand how they think they were able to, by using media and contact and high-tech stuff, to reach and to get out the vote on everybody out there who is a potential Democrat and succeed in 2012.

But a vote is free. It's quite different to go out and to purchase health insurance if you're young, healthy, invincible and you don't need it. And the premium is twice what it ought to be.

So, this idea that they have discovered a technique that will turn out the young -- yes, if it's for something that costs you nothing, but it's not going to work for ObamaCare. And it is somewhat, maybe not degrading, but deflating for a president to end up as a rapper after he was -- you remember the convention in '08 in Denver where he was surrounded by the Roman pillars -- or were they Greek?

PERINO: They might have been Greek.

KRAUTHAMMER: I can't quite remember.

TANTAROS: I want no part of that ceremony.

PERINO: Or Andrea.

TANTAROS: We have no more to that.

PERINO: Speaking of, Andrea, here's something that you love, since we were talking about the selling of ObamaCare. This was a little ad that they put out last night. It's called "Get Talking." And it's from, #gettalking.

And this is an image of a hipster wearing -- it seems like a onesie pajamas sipping on his hot chocolate and apparently --

GUTFELD: It's Chris Hayes.

PERINO: -- and apparently, Andrea, talking about ObamaCare. You didn't like this immediately last night.

TANTAROS: I'm embarrassed on behalf of the American male. I mean, first, they gave us the life of Julia so young women can look forward to growing old with a cat and maybe if we're lucky, Dana, a vegetable garden and our husband is the government. Now, the American male is a two-handed hot chocolate swelling man-child with footed pajamas. I mean, that is the message that the administration is trying to portray, right? The beta male who is a baby who needs the government.

And I actually think it's pretty despicable. If I were guys, I'd be, like, this is not going to get me to purchase this.


BECKEL: Some serious analysis here besides the -- the turnout in an off-year, midterm election is about 50 percent, 60 percent of the presidential election. Obama's real problem or the Democrats' real problem is among that turnout figure among young people, it will be much lower. And that's going to be very dangerous. Among Hispanics, I'm not sure. But it may well fall off. And it always falls off among black voters.

So, a lot of his base is being -- is going to be lower turnout. And I suspect the Republicans, despite the fact they have nothing to say, nothing to offer except Eric's idea, run on ObamaCare, run on ObamaCare, run ObamaCare. You know, any party that's going to back its way into winning - -

BOLLING: Back? Back its way, Bob -- President Obama --

BECKEL: What else would you say?


BOLLING: "A," he's trying to rewrite the Constitution. "B," they didn't do ObamaCare. That's one point.

BECKEL: They closed the deal. That was good.

Can you give me one thing they said --


BOLLING: -- on the Republicans.

BECKEL: Would you tell me one thing they say?

BOLLING: I hate being this far away from him, by the way.

Two quick thoughts on that. If --

PERINO: I'm sure Charles loves being in the middle.

BOLLING: If a conservative group put together O'Breezy, we would be called, or the right would be called "racist". They would be the worst thing they've ever done. But since it's one of the people on the left groups putting it together, it's cool.

The other thing is, I've said it before, they're trying to market it with O'Breezy, they're trying to market this thing with Adam Levine, the sexiest man alive, with Lady Gaga, because it's a crap product. If it were good product, it would sell itself. Good products sell themselves. You don't have to pull out all the ploys, all the gains. You know what --

BECKEL: You still haven't answered my question, what would Republicans run on the --

BOLLING: You know what they should do? They should advertise this at, like, you know, 2:00 in the morning in the infomercials. Maybe they'd sell a few ObamaCare.

PERINO: Bob, I don't know what it's going to take for you to actually read something that would actually show you that the Republicans have something. But could we agree that by Monday, if you -- if I provide you a one-pager that you will read it and we can stop having this ridiculous conversation?

BECKEL: If you're talking about all those crap bills that they passed in the House of Representatives that died because they would take (INAUDIBLE), you know why? Yes, they did that but they're lousy bills. They're terrible bills.

PERINO: Right. Let me ask Greg -- do you want to defend the American male as Andrea ad or onesie pajamas?

GUTFELD: Well, I think there's a great thing going on right now. The efforts to sell ObamaCare have succeeded in doing to liberalism what the right could never do, and that is make it uncool.

The whole thing stinks of dork. It's reasserting the idea of rugged individualism. A young man would look at this and say, that's not for me. I'm not going to suck on the teat of government. I'm going to go out as a young man and take risks with my life.

You wouldn't see Lee Marvin or Steve McQueen in a onesie drinking hot chocolate. This is the quintessential beta male, the Obama voter at his worst.

By the way, you know, if the government -- if private sector had created ObamaCare, the government would try to bail it out. But how can the government bail out something it created itself? It's basically asking a pit bull to perform an operation on his victim.

BECKEL: You left that Clint Eastwood talking to the chair. That's inspiring speech -- 


GUTFELD: It was inspiring.

But I have to agree with Bob on one thing, and that is the big question is, what are the Republicans going to do? My suggestion, very simple -- nominate normal people. No witches. No creepy uncles.

You've got a win here. You have a win. Take it. Just find agreeable, likeable people, and you're going to win.

PERINO: Let me ask Charles, I'll give you the last word with a question about young people because the Democrats have been able to win young voters -- or get young voters to their side and to vote for them. Maybe do they understand something about talking to people like that hipster in that commercial that maybe conservatives don't get?

KRAUTHAMMER: Look, the younger natural constituency for liberalism is the perfect example of hope over experience because if you're young, you have no experience. And most people, Bob excluded, grow up, acquire experience and outgrow liberalism.

And the problem the administration has is it stinks. The problem with ObamaCare is message. It's not the message. It's the substance.

We had three years of arguments over it as a theory. It's now real. The policies are canceled. The premiums are doubled.

Everybody understands how the insurers have no leeway, and nobody has any choice. They're going to lose doctors and hospitals.

The reality is there. There's no way that rhetoric can repeal reality, and that's why the Democrats are headed south.

PERINO: All right. We have to leave it there because we have a whole hour to get to.

Some pop culture conversation when we come back. Toronto's crack- smoking mayor shows off some dance moves at a holiday party, and Lady Gaga and Christina performed on last night's finale of "The Voice." We'll ask Charles if he has any -- new banned phrase -- guilty pleasures when it coming to entertainment programming.


BOLLING: All right. It's fast, it's provocative and it's seven of the fastest minutes you'll spend all day. Three stories, seven minutes, one host committed to making it fun.

First up, guilty pleasures, we all have them for me, "Homeland", "Walking Dead", football. For some like Dana, it's "The Voice". And judging by this awesome duo with superstar Lady Gaga, and arguably one of the best voices in the business, Christina Aguilera, I've got to say some darn good TV.


BOLLING: All righty. We're going to get to Dana in a second.

But, Charles, we're just sitting around, got nothing to watch, you ever flick on "The Voice" and watch Lady Gaga and Christina Aguilera?

KRAUTHAMMER: We don't have stuff like this on "Special Report."


KRAUTHAMMER: Did I wander into the wrong studio here?

Guilty pleasure watching "The Five" when I'm in makeup --

BOLLING: That's probably true.

KRAUTHAMMER: But I have incomprehensible pleasures, watching baseball. And after the off-season, which is endless and dark and cold, I watch spring training games.

BOLLING: Very good. Very good.

Let's pass it around. Dana, you're a fan of "The Voice."

PERINO: I like that show very much. I think the judges are fantastic. I love the chemistry amongst the judges. I like all of them individually, and I like them collectively. I thought they had great talent this year.

But there was one problem for me with the finale. There was no country music star. And I just -- I just lost interest, kind of.

BOLLING: Your thoughts, Greg?

GUTFELD: You know, I was looking at Lady Gaga and Christina there, and I said exactly what the world needs, not one but two cats in a blender. The worst four minutes since the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.

The only way to make that thing worse is to make it longer.


GUTFELD: You've heard that before.

BOLLING: You want to weigh in on this one?

TANTAROS: Well, Adam Levine, it looks like he had a good night. His pick won. And she did a great job. I mean, she covered Whitney Houston, which is pretty tough to do.

That's the one thing Adam Levine is good at, music and singing, not ObamaCare. I'm just shocked that Greg isn't more of a devotee because Adam's on the show.

GUTFELD: I know, it's true.

BOLLING: We all want to know what Bob's guilty pleasures are.

PERINO: Do we?

BECKEL: You really don't.


BECKEL: They look like two people in a bad alley fight with knives, number one. I mean, what is that? Lousy choreography. You couldn't understand the language.

And who watches that crap? In the first place?

PERINO: Millions.

BOLLING: Millions upon millions.

BECKEL: Well, good.

BOLLING: Only more people watch "The Five."

All right. We've got to go.

Next up, lovable loser and crack-smoking mayor, Rob Ford, getting his twerk on in Rob Ford style.


BOLLING: Exactly. You've got to at least love this guy.

GUTFELD: You know what I realized? Toronto, it's not a city, it's a one long office party. Whenever we go to Toronto, something is happening. People are getting knocked over.

By the way, my take is, he's really entertaining from far away. I don't want to be near him.

BOLLING: Did you see that girl? I think that's the girl he knocked over.


GUTFELD: This is an office party.

PERINO: He didn't knock her over. He was trying to help her get picked up.

GUTFELD: The holiday office party.

TANTAROS: You're right, they had -- you're right, Eric. They had a screaming match on the floor. And then he had to apologize and say he was super, super, super sorry.

GUTFELD: Good grief.

TANTAROS: Someone better tell the mayor that dancing, blow and being heavy do not go together. Ask Chris Farley.

BECKEL: Crack and that dude, the combination is waiting for a heart attack.

PERINO: Well, he did say he only tried crack once.

BECKEL: I mean, I've done both, and I survived, but barely.

BOLLING: Charles, I don't know, the guy is making -- he's definitely getting a bigger and bigger brand. A year ago, no one ever heard of this guy. Now, all of a sudden, no one hasn't heard of him.

KRAUTHAMMER: The guy grew up in Montreal. And at the time, this is 100 years ago, Toronto was known as wasp (INAUDIBLE) something else and extremely dull. I think it's improved.


BOLLING: Yes, probably. I agree with you.

All right. "Duck Dynasty," all the rage these days. Duck dude Phil Robertson blowing off Madam Barbara Walters' big finish, the duck commander choosing duck hunting over Ms. Walters' final fascinating person of 2013 interview. Good for you, Phil, quack, quack.

I'll start with you, Bob. Phil saying I'd rather go duck hunting than hang out with Barbara Walters.

BECKEL: God bless him. I mean, the idea -- he ought to go shoot some ducks where he doesn't sit around and shoot Barbara Walters.

Look, the fact of the matter is, why would he want to go on that show with those people who are supposed to be fascinating? Ducks are more fascinating than they are. And so, he's gone out hunting ducks. I'm all for him. I congratulate him for standing up for himself and saying no.

BOLLING: What do you think, Ands? Big moment. A lot of people watch that show.

TANTAROS: I think that's what makes him so fascinating. He's probably the only one that says, I don't care about this interview. I'd rather go duck hunting.

Miley Cyrus is on her list. I guess twerking is fascinating. I don't know why you hate Miley so much. It's no different than what your date every Saturday night.

BECKEL: Because she's the poster child of prostitutes, that's why.

TANTAROS: They do -- Bob, your dates do the same dance moves.

BECKEL: She used to be Montana. My little daughter used to watch her. She was a nice-looking little girl. She was a teenager. Now, she's turned into a quasi-hooker. I mean, come on.

BOLLING: So, let's bring around the table.

Greg, your thoughts on Phil Robertson.

GUTFELD: I go back to what I've said about this whole fascinating thing. I hate that word. People are not fascinating unless they work in a carnival. The bearded lady, fascinating. Lizard man, fascinating. Phenomenon -- phenomenon is fascinating.

But saying a person is fascinating is weird. I'm glad he went duck hunting.


PERINO: I'm going to offer up a possibility. They're very smart. They're very good with PR. And it may have just been a way to get more attention for their event.


BECKEL: The fastest seven minutes in television.

BOLLING: Isn't it great? I'm absolutely --


BECKEL: Faster than other seven minutes?

BOLLING: That's a good point. It just feels faster.

Charles, your thoughts on the duck commander there.

GUTFELD: He's one exciting host.


KRAUTHAMMER: Gore Vidal once famously said never give up a chance to have sex or go on TV. Looks like the Robertsons don't read Gore Vidal.



TANTAROS: Bob, Bob, Bob, be careful, Bob.

BECKEL: What? Just because I agree with him?

TANTAROS: We know you agree with him, Bob.


BOLLING: All right. We'll leave it there.

Coming up, "Friends" star and recovering addict Matthew Perry blows up at a fellow guest during a conversation about drug abuse.


PETER HITCHENS, JOURNALIST: You two believe in this fantasy of addiction.

MATTHEW PERRY, ACTOR: I didn't come here to listen to ludicrous things like that either. But you don't know what you're talking about.


BOLLING: We'll find out what's got Chandler's panties in a wad, coming up next.


GUTFELD: I dropped my microphone, and it's off now. Can you hear me?


GUTFELD: All right. On BBC, Matthew Perry, i.e. Chandler of "Friends," tangled with a British journalist over drugs. Peter Hitchens thinks sympathy hurts drug abusers and that harsh penalties are the real answer.


PETER HITCHENS: If this is what you believe, this terrible disease after which they cannot stop taking drugs. If you really believe that --


HITCHENS: -- then you would presumably think the best thing would be they never ever came in contact with those drugs.

PERRY: Of course.

HITCHENS: Wouldn't it therefore be wise to deter them from doing so by a stern and effective criminal justice system which actually persuaded them it was unwise to take the drugs in the first place?


GUTFELD: Cheerio.

Perry, a drug addict, got angry.


HITCHENS: I asked you to come up with an objective diagnosis --


PERRY: I did, myself.


HITCHENS: -- of the presence of the (INAUDIBLE) in his body. That's not an objective diagnosis. Yourself is the reverse of objective.

PERRY: Myself and 10 million other alcoholics and addicts across America and across the world are having this problem.

You're making a point that is as ludicrous and saying that Peter Pan was real.

HITCHENS: You keep saying that, but you cannot come up with an objective definition --

That people ever cease to be addicts if what you say is true.

PERRY: Well, Santa --

HITCHENS: Yes, it's terribly clever, but this is a very serious subject, and you treat it with immense levity.


GUTFELD: Jokes worked for Chandler, but not so much for Matthew, especially in a debate. The fact is, no matter how much you like Perry and dislike Hitchens' ruthlessness, Perry needs to come with the facts. When someone asks for objective evidence, you can't say you are your own evidence.

Citing yourself is the opposite of objective, speaks to a larger problem in a modern debate that plagues all arguments, not just ones about drugs.

In every single debate these days, you know it's pointless when someone says, "But it happened to me!" Or, "I know! I was one!" See Jenny McCarthy and her vaccine quackery.

Subjective experience is good, but it ain't proof. The point of science is to override subjectivity. Like miracles, your personal experience must be verifiable.

It doesn't mean you don't have answers. It just means you need the facts, too.

Perry's right about an addict's helplessness, but the word "disease" bugs me, for as the night winds down, I can throw my cocaine, my vodka, my rare German pornography out the window. I have. But you cannot do the same thing with cancer. That kind of disease rages independent of your choices.

So, Dr. Krauthammer, you're a psychiatrist. What is the research -- this is a very, very heated debate that's going on and has been going on for years. What does the research say about addiction as a disease?

KRAUTHAMMER: Number one, I'm a psychiatrist in remission. Doing very well. I haven't had a relapse in 25 years.

But when I practiced, I did do some work on depression. There's no question that there is a genetic correlation between depression, alcoholism and drug abuse, and it makes sense logically because alcoholism and drug abuse are ways of self-medicating.


KRAUTHAMMER: OK? And it's not only that you find the correlation but also there's a logic behind it. The question is, what percent or what degree? I think that's largely unknown.

But clearly there's a genetic component, and clearly there is a behavioral one. And since we can't change the genetics, you want to change the behavior.

GUTFELD: What do you think, Bob?

BECKEL: You taking your point about using myself as an example, I will only say this. Having been a recovering alcoholic and addict for a long time, I have looked at this carefully.


BECKEL: There is a genetic predisposition. Virtually all the people that I see in meetings have had alcoholics in their background. But beyond that, the famous twin studies where they take twins and split them up in the alcohol -- and this is the nurture versus nature and all that stuff. There now is a growing body of evidence that there is a genetic connection.

I think it also is true that people who are depressed and do have a sense of doom in their lives fill that hole with something that numbs them. And the fastest thing -- the fastest medicine working in the world is alcohol or a very good snort of cocaine.

GUTFELD: See, that's experience I trust, though. When Bob talks, I listen.

KRAUTHAMMER: Is that a retroactive endorsement?

BECKEL: No, it's not. I was trying to fill in your sort of analysis.

GUTFELD: I think it's true, though. I think Bob's right, though. There is a genetic disposition, and there also is a behavioral component.

BOLLING: Can I just push back a little bit on both? How do you explain very, very young people with parents that aren't addicts becoming addicts? Now, I would push back that they're depressed. I'm not sure, you know, if 13 or 14 -- sometimes 11-year-old can be depressed. Maybe they can. Maybe I'm wrong.

And if you eliminate the DNA part of it, you're dealing with a young person who probably has been given it by a friend, and it was cool, and it was more social than like you said, genetic and/or solving a depression problem.

KRAUTHAMMER: Clearly, it can happen in the absence of any genetics. But I think the point that the science is making is simply that if you have a genetic history or you have even a history of depression, not just drug abuse, but let's say depression, you're more predisposed. And thus you will want, in raising a child, and with that history, you'd want to be all the more careful about exposing them to drugs or alcohol because of the predisposition that would suggest otherwise.

BECKEL: The other thing, Eric, these kids are surrounded by peer pressure and a lot of drugs around. Very few of them, by definition, grow up from 11 years old and become full-blown addicts and alcoholics. A lot of them experiment when they're teenagers and give it up. Most people like alcohol. A lot of it's consumed in college and shortly after that, and in their 30s they begin to get away from it.

GUTFELD: Let me ask you, Andrea, Hitchens makes this point that if this is so bad, you should stop the abuse by preventing them and putting them in jail. Did that make sense to you at all?

TANTAROS: It didn't make sense. His argument didn't make sense. Neither did Matthew Perry's who called for drug court.

So he wanted to set up courts for people who commit crimes which are over half of crimes committed people are on hard drugs and then have magistrates act as the judge. These are recovering druggies who would actually be the judges in those courts. I'm not sure if that's going to be favorable. Some recovering alcoholics or druggies are pretty tough.

So, I guess -- I also don't like that because then Greg then is the rationale, if I want to commit a crime, I get really high because then I get to go to the softy drug court. It also, I think, destigmatizes it where people will say yeah, he went out and robbed a bank after doing a bunch of blow.

Oh, OK, you know, he was high, so I guess he goes to drug court. So, I actually didn't think either one of them, even though they agreed preventing it in the first place made sense of what to do.

BECKEL: They're all, Brits, sound they're constipated.


GUTFELD: That's why we left, Bob.

But, Dana, I want to congratulate you're two years sober off Pixy Stix.

PERINO: Yes, it was difficult. Diet Coke was also hard.

I'll tell you, that I think one of the reasons I never actually tried drugs is because I was worried about a predisposition in my own family history.

GUTFELD: Way to throw your family under the bus.

PERINO: Well, they're no longer living.

GUTFELD: Oh. Then you can't.

PERINO: So, it's my own personal experience which was banned at the beginning of the segment so I'm done.

GUTFELD: Oh, OK, groovy.

All right. Ahead, the five of us are going to interrogate Dr. Krauthammer. He doesn't know the questions. Can he handle it? You'll find out moments from now.


TANTAROS: We're back with syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer, author of the number one New York Times best-selling book, "Things That Matter." And, by the way, the audio book goes on sale December 26th.

Now, it's time for us to ask the doctor some questions.

So, Bob, you're up first. Ask him anything.

BECKEL: Seriously, Charles, you were a psychiatrist, are a psychiatrist, I guess. I read in your column, you sometimes refer to your psychiatric background when you're writing. How much of an impact did being a psychiatrist have on your writing?

KRAUTHAMMER: The answer, sadly, is none. People assume if you're a psychiatrist, you've got X-ray eyes like Superman. In fact, there's no greater insight into normal human activity. What psychiatry does is it teaches you how to deal with people who are truly ill, schizophrenic, psychotics, manic depressants, and you do a lot of good.

But I never believed in as some analysis of ordinary human behavior, and that's one of the reasons I quit the field in the end.

TANTAROS: Another psychology question for you, Dr. Krauthammer.

So there's this hot story in The L.A. Times that's trending right now. And it has to do with relationships, either friend, romantic or otherwise. Is it better to be right or better to be happy? What do you think?

KRAUTHAMMER: Better to be right because right lasts. Happiness does not.

PERINO: Agreed. Good thing I'm always right.

KRAUTHAMMER: That's right.

TANTAROS: Me, too.

KRAUTHAMMER: And that was a non-psychiatric opinion.

TANTAROS: OK. Greg, you're up next.

GUTFELD: Oh. What is -- this has been driving me crazy. You are a scientist. What is the science behind boredom?

Like how come you can listen to a song and love that song, and then a month later, you don't like it. The song doesn't change. But you change.

It's the same thing with sweaters and with people. How come something, when it's new, it's great, but then the more you are around it, the worse it gets. It's something within you that changed. Is it a chemical change?

KRAUTHAMMER: I doubt it. That's an interesting question to which I have no answer. But on television, you never say I have no idea.

I'll pretend I know the answer, which is it's a behavioral adaptation, and obviously if something is new, it can be interesting. And look, if you read a book as a child or as a young adolescent and you say it's the greatest thing ever, and you read it in your 50s, your 40s and you say what kind of idiot was I?

That's a universal experience.

PERINO: That will never happen when somebody reads your book.

KRAUTHAMMER: No, it will never happen.

GUTFELD: And you still read "The Hardy Boys."

PERINO: The boredom thing about getting tired of something is maybe about you and me.



KRAUTHAMMER: On sale in bookstores everywhere.

PERINO: It was just announced that you're number one New York Times best-seller list for six weeks in a row.

BECKEL: We said that three times.


PERINO: Because it just got revealed in the commercial break.

Charles, I have a question. Do you believe in New Year's resolutions, and do you have any?

KRAUTHAMMER: Yes. Be concise.


BOLLING: Very well. Is that what Bret tells you on "Special Report"?

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, I had another -- that happened a couple years ago. I was asked that on New Year's Eve. And I knew that we had 30 seconds left. And I'm always getting shouted at in my ear by our producer because I'm loquacious on "Special Report."

So I was asked that exactly. And I said, be concise, and I left 20 seconds of dead air.


BOLLING: Perfect.

That leaves me.

Charles, you're a theologian. So there's a lot of discussion about whether Santa Claus --

KRAUTHAMMER: Board-certified theologian.


BOLLING: I don't want to go there. But Santa Claus, by definition, does he have to be Christian?

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, as a Jew, I recuse myself on this.

PERINO: Good answer.

KRAUTHAMMER: Outside of my area of expertise. But I've heard about him, and I understand he's a fat man with a red thing, reindeer and he flies --

GUTFELD: There's been much controversy about him lately.

BOLLING: See, I tried to go --


BECKEL: Stop at your house this year.

TANTAROS: Still ahead, some very surprising comments --

KRAUTHAMMER: You've never had.

BECKEL: Oh, man, what a bummer.

TANTAROS: We've got to go, Santa Claus.

Some very surprising comments from Prince Charles on the attacks on Christmas in the Middle East. You'll hear from him when we come right back.


BECKEL: That was Lady Gaga.

Yesterday we brought you the story of Christian Coptics in Egypt, who have found themselves under siege at the hands of radical Muslims. A member of the British royalty weighed in on the struggles, presenting a much darker vision about the future of Christians across the entire Middle East. Some straight talk from Prince Charles.


PRINCE CHARLES, UNITED KINGDOM: It seems to me that we cannot ignore the fact that Christians in the Middle East are increasingly being deliberately targeted by fundamentalist Islamist militants. Christianity was literally born, and we must not forget our Middle Eastern brothers and sisters in Christ.


BECKEL: You know, I think it's something I feel very strongly about. I'm going to start with you, Charles, on this. There has been virtually no effort on the part of the Muslim governments to try to protect Christians, very little. You almost wonder whether they're complicit in all this. And maybe the idea is to drive Christians just out of the Middle East.

KRAUTHAMMER: I think that is true. This is sort of a recapitulation of what happened in the Middle East 60 years ago, where Jews who lived in Iraq, Baghdad, Egypt for over 2,000 years were driven out. And this is another example of this sort of exclusion or ethnic cleansing of anything that is not Muslim on the part of radical Islamists.

I'm encouraged that you would hear that from a British royal. because you haven't been hearing it often enough and clearly enough...

BECKEL: You're correct.

KRAUTHAMMER: ... from our administration. And you would expect that from a country that has the Statue of Liberty in the New York Harbor and has religious freedom as the essence of the First Amendment.

BECKEL: Just the silence across the land. You could -- I mean, not only the United States.

KRAUTHAMMER: This administration. This administration has been disgraceful in that.

BECKEL: It really is disgraceful. Eric, you want to weigh in on this?

BOLLING: Just briefly, last night, Andrea asked me the same question. Should we look at the Obama administration's failure from coming out more aggressively against this type of practice?

I said, "And, I don't want to go there. Let's talk about what's been going on, decades and decades or centuries of persecution of Christians in the Middle East."

And people on Twitter really took me to task for not attacking the Obama administration for it. I don't think it's the right thing to do right now. I don't think -- I'm not saying that they're not doing enough or too much, but I just think this is a bigger picture. I think the world, not just the United States, like the royals, have to get involved. Really come down hard on the countries that are doing this and saying, like you said last night, Bob, you want to pull some aid from the U.S. Maybe something else, too.

BECKEL: You know, they've been telling me to tease out. Can I let these people say anything or are they going to be muted? OK. Dana, you want to say very quickly? PERINO: I would say that Prince Charles was speaking like somebody who wants and deserves to be a King.

BECKEL: Interesting.

PERINO: Yes. Isn't it?

BECKEL: Yes, it is. Particularly the British history in the Middle East. I must say there's some suspect about the British royalty and their actions in the Middle East in the '40s and '50s.

Go ahead.

GUTFELD: Real quick, I have a hard time agreeing with him, because his input on climate science, he's an imbecile. But maybe he's right here. But I think there are two things that are happening. Why Christianity is disappearing is you're watching the death of the big family. Muslims are still making babies. The rest of us are making kale chips. Globally, it seems like Christians are becoming less fundamental, as Islam is becoming more fundamental.

BECKEL: You know, Andrea, they are orthodox Christians. They're -- they share a pope with you. In fact, it's very interesting. I didn't know this. The Coptics have a little boy pick out the pope if they get down to three -- the choice of three people who made the cut. Made the cut. Like in baseball.

What do you think here? Is this something that is just ordained to happen and we just have to give up on it? Or is there a way to stop it?

TANTAROS: Islamists have been kidnapping our ship captains since the day of Thomas Jefferson. It doesn't matter if you're orthodox. It matters if you are anything but a Muslim or if you are ruled by the Muslims. That's the ultimate goal.

And to Greg's point, Christianity is started to diminish, and in the Koran, and if you read Bernard Lewis, which I went back and did yesterday, "The Islamic Crisis," he talks about this. When radicals are dominated and outnumbered, they are more docile. Now they're not. That is why they're going on the offense.

And my point about the administration is not that they're doing anything and they're sitting back. They're actually enabling and helping the jihadists rising up. And that's the biggest problem.

BECKEL: I'm sure going to ask you that question last. My question -- I won't agree with that. But what I agree is "One More Thing" is up next.


PERINO: Back for "One More Thing." I'll go quickly because we have six people.

Co-host Kimberly Guilfoyle, today with her son at the hospital, Ronan Villency, is being very brave today, having a doctor and a surgeon address some ear, nose and throat problems. I think that he's probably in the middle of recovery right now. So you're in our thoughts and prayers. And I'm sure you'll make a speedy recovery. We all wish you well.

Now we will go to our special guest, Charles.

KRAUTHAMMER: You know, the bomb scare at Harvard, apparently they got a confession from the student who obviously had the final exam. Now, I'll preface this by saying it's a terrible thing. You should never, ever call in a bomb scare. People can get hurt; panic, et cetera. So don't try it at home.

However, has any of us not had the fantasy of having a final exam and a bomb scare came up and canceled it? It reminds me of a movie, a wonderful movie about 10 or 20 years ago called "Hope and Glory," about a child -- through a child's eyes the summer of the blitz in London. He's in the country having a wonderful summer, but then he needs to go back. When he arrives back to school and on the day he arrives at school, a German airplane appears overhead and look at what happens.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a stray bomb. Thank you, Adolf.


BECKEL: There you go.

PERINO: All right. That's cute. Bob.

BECKEL: I would use a cherry bomb in my toilet in the college.

PERINO: This morning?

GUTFELD: That was actually on the second floor.

PERINO: It wasn't as scary.

GUTFELD: The last time Charles was on, I was asking -- I tried to clarify his relationship with Walter Mondale, because he used to work with Walter Mondale. And I wanted, in my way (ph), to try to dispel some of the notions.

You can see there's Walter. Can we bring up Charles' poster here? Charles was very upfront for Mondale, and I particularly thought that this was appropriate to bring it back up, because let me just say again, he had nothing to do with the '84 campaign that I managed to report at least accurately, a 49-state loss.

He didn't get involved himself in 1980. Although I did, between '80 and '84 got some notes, some strategy suggestions for '84 from someone named Derrick Hammerkraut (ph). Now, I don't know who that was, but I kept taking notes of that advice. And 49 states later -- well, there you go. No, he's not. He became a conservative. It's too bad. He went the wrong way.

GUTFELD: Is that an anagram?

KRAUTHAMMER: Those were lies, all lies.

PERINO: Hammerkraut.

GUTFELD: Hammerkraut.

PERINO: Andrea.

TANTAROS: I just want to say hooray to the guide dog named Orlando, who's getting a lot of fanfare today for saving his owner's life. The black Labrador Retriever jumped onto a subway track and tried to pull his owner, his blind owner who lost consciousness and tumbled, and they both survived.

And I just love black Labs. This is great. And here's just a quick picture of my black Lab, growing up happy. He was a former seeing eye dog from Morristown, New Jersey. He was a seeing eye. Super cute. We miss her every day.

PERINO: That's a good one -- Eric. BOLLING: Very quickly, last night I asked for Twitter/Facebook ideas for secret Santa. You guys came out in force.

The first was, "Bolling, get yourself booze if you have to sit next to Beckel every day. You're going to need it."

But the vast majority were for Bob.  Venus says, "Jelly of the month club," referencing "Christmas Vacation." John says, "Give Bob a picture of Jasper." Another one said, "Get Bob a copy of 'Atlas Shrugged.'" "Get Bob a copy of the Constitution." And the last one, I can't remember.

BECKEL: Thank you all very much.

BOLLING: Some Victoria's Secret gift certificates. I said my wife is in the audience right now. What's wrong with you?

PERINO: What is wrong with you people? Or maybe what's right with you people? Greg, you're last and you're great.

GUTFELD: Yes, I have a banned phrase but I kind of don't like it now.

BECKEL: Well, you've only got 20 seconds.

GUTFELD: No, so I figured I'll come up with another one tomorrow.

BECKEL: OK. But it's like, Charles, you can't leave us with 15 seconds of dead air.

GUTFELD: Or can I?

BECKEL: You've only got...


PERINO: Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Don't forget to set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." We will see you here tomorrow. "Special Report" is next.

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