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The Five

Juan Williams shares memories of Nelson Mandela

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 6, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5:00 in New York City. And this is "The Five".

(MUSIC)

GUILFOYLE: We have a jam-packed show tonight.

President Obama pushing redistribution. A New York politician appears to blame Jewish people for that brutal knockout game. Eric sat down with Rand Paul. And Bob Beckel's annual Christmas lights package. It's all coming your way.

But, first, Nelson Mandela will be laid to rest in South Africa on December 15th. President and Mrs. Obama will be there to pay their respects.

FOX's Ed Henry just wrapped up an interview with Former President Bill Clinton who shared his memories of South Africa's late leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: He talked to me in that prison cell as we grabbed the bars and looked out together about what it was like. And I said, "Tell me how this changed you. How did you give up 27 of the best years of your life and come out a better man than you went?" He said, "I realized they could take everything from me, everything, except my mind and my heart. Those things I would have to give them." And he said, "I decided not to give them away." He was free before he was released.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Amazing.

Tributes have been pouring in over the last 24 hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've lost one of the most influential, courageous and profoundly good human beings that any of us will share time with us on this Earth.

PRINCE WILLIAM OF WALES: Extremely sad and tragic news. We're just reminded what an extraordinarily inspiring man Nelson Mandela was and my thoughts and prayers are with him and his family right now.

JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: A new low -- low, low, lots of pain. Yet one can find solace in the fight. He accomplished the mission of using his mind, body and suffering to end the racist, political apartheid system.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

GUILFOYLE: Juan Williams spent a lot of time with Mandela after he was released from prison 1990 and he joins us tonight.

Juan, great to see you.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, good to be here.

GUILFOYLE: And you must have a lot of thoughts and reflections about this great man that you got to know.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, that was interesting to me. I think everyone will kind of be fascinated, that he was interested in us. I mean, the world grew inspiration from Nelson Mandela. When I was with him, it was funny, almost like he was interviewing me about American politics and the civil rights movement. Because in South Africa, the majority of the population is black.

He wanted to know, wait, how did a minority in the United States achieve civil rights? So, we ended up talking about, and he's fascinating with the Founding Fathers. The idea that George Washington gives up power one term, something Mandela later does.

But also citizenship, the whole idea that you have rights in the United States. Remember, blacks in South Africa had none of that.

In a sense, we were inspiring too Nelson Mandela.

GUILFOYLE: I'm certain of that. Was there anything when you sat down with him that really surprised you? You know, I'm sure you prepared ahead of time and researched them and got to know the man through what you were able to read and hear from other personal anecdotes.

But what did you take away from it?

WILLIAMS: You know, Kimberly, I think the thing that surprised me the most is I was saying, you know, Mr. Mandela, you are a beacon to the world in terms of freedom, struggle, the sacrifice, the 27 years in jail, standing up for principle. And he was just -- he started laugh. He didn't laugh easily.

So, I was like taken aback. I thought, hey, maybe there's some like, he's not understanding this American guy, you know? But no -- he said, no, it's just when he was growing up, all he wanted to do was rebel against his parents.

He just wanted to get out of the tribal situation -- he was like a prince -- and go to the big city of Johannesburg. He wanted to box. He wanted to learn poetry. He wanted what he called a Western-style education.

And, Kimberly, I think that stays with me. You know, sometimes, especially in this holiday season, we forget what we have, you know, a Western-style education. This guy was willing to do anything for it. And rebel against his parents. What he wanted more than anything else. He didn't even see that he was going to become this worldwide legend.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana and Bob both have questions. We'll begin with Dana.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Juan, I'm curious about how it was that you were plucked out of the crowd, of all the journalists that were there, how did it come to be that you were chosen, in order a chance, to get a chance to talk to him? Because I know you worked it a little bit. I would love to hear that story.

And the second question I have is, what is the toughest question that he asked you in those interviews?

WILLIAMS: You know, Dana, I like the way you put it. I worked it.

I did work it, my friend because what happened was, everybody was being turned away. Everybody wanted time with Nelson Mandela after he first got out. And here he is at his home. But what happened was I had written a book about the American civil rights movement, "Eyes on the Prize." Turns out, he read the book before it became a TV series or anything. And so he wanted to meet the author. They just put me in the line to shake hands.

But I wouldn't let go of the guy, I said, "Please, I really want to talk to you. You know, please, I'm from Washington, the United States of America." They were kicking me out and he said, "Well, you can write -- if you can write some thank you notes for me, you can stick around, I'll talk to you when I can." So, it wasn't like a direct interview, it was like, hey, Mr. Mandela, or we sit down and have a meal and talk to him or he's meeting his grandkids. It was like that.

GUILFOYLE: What a great experience.

Now, Bob, you've had some personal experiences as well with Nelson Mandela on behalf of work you did with Bishop Desmond Tutu.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Yes. We're raising money for Mandela charities, in the United States, raised a lot of money for it.

But, Juan, let me ask you -- you know, I remember vividly when you gave the commencement address to my son's school two years ago. And you talked about Mandela, and I have never seen a group of -- which were then 17-year-olds, 18-year-old -- absolutely spellbound by what you were saying about Mandela. They didn't know much about Mandela. But it was Mandela's words.

I'm just wondering whether we think this generation who never saw or heard much about Nelson Mandela will now, because of this week, we're going to get a lot of information about him, be inspired by his words.

WILLIAMS: I think so Bob, you know, because I think for a lot of kids, even if you think about our history, Dr. King, you know, for my kids, a lot of that is -- might as well be George Washington and the cherry tree. I sent to Dana early today about this. It's just they think it's history.

But they suddenly get the sense of what was apartheid. I think they don't have any clue. It's just like, you know, water fountains in this country, it was like, wait what was that, you guys are bringing up old history. But now, I think there might be some lessons here where they say, oh, so this is what Nelson Mandela stood up for, this is what it means to be someone who acts on principle and sacrifices for the greater good.

And, again, I think that's such a tremendous lesson. You know, like Dana was asking me, what's the most difficult question that I got from Mandela, and it was one about, you know, do you know who you are, where you're from? Imagine, you know, someone saying to me. I said, what do you mean?

He said, do you know where your people came from? Do you know where you're from in Africa?

And I'm like, you know, I don't know the answers. These are questions I think for everyone I think all Americans, you know, we have roots around the world. But to say who are you, where are you from? It's just, it's kind of -- it shakes you.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Greg?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I have a question. But I want to talk about the lessons that I've learned from the South African controversy and the experience. It's about how taking sides ideologically often blinds you to the truth.

The United States was against the ANC, the African National Congress, because they were communists, they were backed by the USSR, and the United States being staunchly anti-communist, that's the right team, but they might have made the wrong choice.

Likewise, Nelson Mandela made the same exact mistake. He mistakenly embraced countries like Ira and Cuba and Gadhafi people, because he saw -- he misidentified them as comrades, when, in fact, it should have been the people in the countries he identified with, because they were people under the thumb of Gadhafi and people under the thumb of Khomeini and other nondemocratic countries.

So, one thing you learned is how ideology at times can blind you to some very important facts. It blinded me in the '80s because I was staunch anti-communist. And I really didn't pay attention to South Africa. All I knew the ANC was being backed by communists and you learned that that was - - even though that's true -- South Africa was wrong.

Secondly, quickly, if you feel really strongly about this man, you can still act, because there's plenty of people around the world who are under the thumb of evil.

GUILFOYLE: That's right.

GUTFELD: And there's a lot of celebrities who don't care. There are women still being circumcised in Africa. It's a horrible practice. There are gays persecuted in Iran. There are Christians in Islamic countries that are being persecuted.

The time is ripe for a lot of new Mandelas.

GUILFOYLE: I like that, Greg, that might be my favorite comment you've made so far.

OK, Eric?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Just a quick thought. And I don't have as much knowledge on Nelson Mandela as the rest of you. I'll just say, a man would appears to have a lot of passion, a lot of resolve, a lot of principle, not necessarily agree with a lot of the things he stood for, so I'll say rest in peace.

Also, very quickly, I think it's very -- a nice outreach. President and Mrs. Obama reached out to the Bushes, 43, and they will be joining, the Bushes will be joining the president on Air Force One to go to the memorial services next week. So, interesting and nice way to bring some unity.

GUILFOYLE: Appropriate respect and tribute.

Bob, you have a quick question? And final thought from Juan.

BECKEL: I have a quick response to Greg. I mean, look, it is true that he embraced these people. They were the few people willing to embrace him. The United States held up sanctions. Reagan continued to --

GUTFELD: That's my point though.

BECKEL: -- veto sanctions. And, in fact, Reagan had to be overridden by the Congress in order to get those sanctions put into place.

GUTFELD: That was my point, though.

BECKEL: OK, I understand. I appreciate that.

Juan, one fast point, de Klerk, who also won the Nobel peace prize with Mandela, did an awful lot to help Mandela pave the way, the white Africana. Do you think that's a fair statement?

WILLIAMS: Yes, I really do. Remember, they have a unity government. Mandela is the first democratically elected president of a multiracial South Africa. And what does he do, he makes de Klerk his deputy president so that there is a clear sign to the country, this is about reconciliation, this is moving forward. This is not about recriminations and bitterness. And that's the inspiring part.

You know, I agree with you, Bob. You know, they were -- some of those countries, communists or whatever, were the few countries willing to support a Nelson Mandela. But you know what is the key, afterwards, he says no to violence and no to those communists.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Juan, we want to thank you -- our fellow co- host of "The Five" -- for being with us tonight and sharing those reflections, special memories that you were able to be a part of in history.

Coming up, Mr. Bob Beckel was down at his house in D.C. last weekend, putting up his Christmas lights. We're not sure how hard he actually worked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

BECKEL: Need to have some --

(ND VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Don't miss the annual Beckel home Christmas light show. Bob's just talking away. He's very excited. We've got a special package for you, and it's coming up on "The Five".

BECKEL: Hey, don't come back --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Welcome back to "The Five".

I don't know what Shawn was thinking.

Welcome back to "The Five".

President Obama claims income inequality threatens the American dream.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: There's a dangerous and growing inequality and lack of upward mobility that has jeopardized middle class America's basic bargain, that if you work hard, you have a chance to get ahead. I believe this is the defining challenge of our time. Making sure our economy works for every working American. That's why I ran for president. It was the center of last year's campaign. It drives everything I do in this office.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, how has the economy done since he's been in office?

Well, the top 1 percent incomes are up 31.4 percent. The bottom 99 percent grew only 4 percent between 2009 and 2012. The top 1 percent earned 19.3 of all household income. In 2012, their largest share since 1977.

We're going to have a raucous debate between Bob and Eric. I can feel it coming. And I was going to ask --

GUILFOYLE: Simmering.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: And you now with that lead of yours --

PERINO: What is wrong with the top of that lead?

BECKEL: That was a bunch of crap. Because rich people got their tax breaks, until they finally got them put back in. When Obama inherited the office, rich people were getting big tax breaks.

BOLLING: All right. That's why?

PERINO: You mean the tax breaks that Obama kept?

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: And now, they're not, right? Now they're not is what you're saying?

BECKEL: Yes, they took the tax breaks away.

BOLLING: How do you explain the top 1 percent is outpacing by seven times what the lower 99 are making? Here's --

BECKEL: How many years during Obama's term did they have --

BOLLING: Exactly, what this is. Believe it or not, President Obama is wrong. He's actually widened the income gap but in a good way, Bob, in a good way, because the 1 percent is going up, 34 percent, 99 percent are going, 4 percent, but they're going up. And that's a good thing.

So, incoming equality is a misnomer. If all -- if the rising tide is rising all boat, raising all boats, that's a great thing.

BECKEL: How can you say 15 years --

BOLLING: It's a win. It's a win.

BECKEL: -- the top 1 percent increase of income take home pay is 247 percent and middle class over the same 15 years, is 40 percent? Do you think that's equal?

GUILFOYLE: He's saying it's going up. The numbers are rising up and that's good.

BOLLING: I'm saying it's better for everyone when this happens.

BECKEL: When the rich people get richer?

BOLLING: And the poor people get richer, yes.

BECKEL: Oh, I see. OK, fine.

PERINO: Before you guys continue, let me get Greg in here first, because you earlier were talking --

GUTFELD: Yes, this is -- this argument about wealth or income inequality is bogus, because it's not about class. It's not about income. It's about age.

The population is getting older. Sixty-five-year-old has 15 times the wealth as somebody under 35. How does that happen? Because as you get older, you make more money.

I am 49. I make a lot more money than I did when I was 19. That is how it works. That's why at 19, you work at McDonald's and then you work at FOX News. It's quite a leap, I give you that.

But the fact is, he is -- President Obama is telling a big fib.

GUILFOYLE: Is it really? I like it.

GUTFELD: Saying that somehow this is the Republican's fault. It's the inevitability of an aging population.

BECKEL: I never heard him mention Republican in that.

PERINO: Oh, really? Well, let's take a listen to this.

You have more? Go ahead.

GUTFELD: Yes. No, I want to point out -- never mind. I'm so -- this -- it's age, it's only age.

BECKLE: It's a good point, it's a good point.

GUTFELD: All right, then we shouldn't even be talking about this.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: Let's listen to President Obama on that.

GUILFOYLE: Please? Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I actually think there are a bunch of Republicans who want to get stuff done. They've got to be embarrassed because the truth of the matter is, is that they've now been in charge of the House of Representatives, one branch of -- or one chamber in one branch of government for a couple years now and they just don't have a lot to show for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I think that's hilarious.

GUILFOYLE: Hilarious.

PERINO: When you only control --

BECKEL: That's an attack on income inequality?

PERINO: No, Bob, it's about Republicans.

BECKEL: That's what I mean.

PERINO: Yes bout Republicans, yes, Bob, obviously, he said Republicans should be embarrassed.

The thing I find curious about is that, of course, the Republicans only control one branch of -- one house of the Congress, so they can't --

GUILFOYLE: How much can they accomplish?

PERINO: If you can't let Harry Reid to pass anything, then it's just simple math. When he says there's no accomplishment, if you -- if the president says he'll veto everything, then, yes, you can -- what is he talking about --

BECKEL: Well, let's take the House of Representatives. Show me the great things they passed, in just the House, forget the Senate.

GUTFELD: Fighting Obama every step of the way.

BECKEL: That's exactly what they're there for.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: They were right on everything.

BECKEL: This gets down to what Mitch McConnell said, the Republican Party's whole deal is to either beat Obama or to level him.

GUTFELD: They beat him on ObamaCare.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: -- about that and liberals hold on to that talking point as if it's their saving grace. And when the facts are pointed out to them about how that was said and when it was said, it doesn't hold up.

Kimberly, I want you to listen to one more thing from President Obama, which he apparently thinks it's just the media that comes up with divisive rhetoric, not him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The American people are good and they are decent. And yes, sometimes we get very divided, partly because our politics and our media specifically tries to divide them and splinter them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: He's been the great uniter, right?

GUILFOYLE: Who did he really mean when he was talking about the media? Blame FOX News. Blame it on the rain, whatever. I mean, quit making excuses.

The bottom line is, he's had the most control in terms of partisan politics and he's had the ability to put stuff through. What has he done with it?

PERINO: Bob, how can you deny that? Bob, seriously --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: No, it's not, Bob, it's accurate --

BECKEL: -- the Tea Party in the House, who are a bunch of people who don't want to do anything --

GUTFELD: And they were right on ObamaCare --

GUILFOYLE: And they were right on ObamaCare and --

BECKEL: They are not right on ObamaCare.

Hey, by the way, did we mention it in our segment right here -- did we mention that unemployment is down 7 percent, the lowest in seven years, that the quarterly growth of the third quarter is up 3.6 percent?

BOLLING: So happy you brought that up. Yes, 7 percent. You're 100 percent right. It's the lowest in the seven years. You're 100 percent right.

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: Do you know why it's 7 percent?

BECKEL: No, tell me why.

BOLLING: Because 11 million people now since the day President Obama raised his right hand and said I do, I'll take the oath of office, 11 million Americans have left the workforce and said, I give up, I can't get a job. If you put those 11 million people back into the number, it's probably somewhere around 10 percent or 11 percent unemployment --

BECKEL: Where do you get 11 million people?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: That's the numbers that were released today, Bob.

BOLLING: To the BLS.

BECKEL: And what --

BOLLING: Bureau of Labor Statistics, 91 million people, more than any other time in history, are out of work right now, 91 million Americans are not working.

PERINO: It's the lowest labor participation rate in 30 years.

GUTFELD: And the fraction, and some of the jobs they got back were furloughed government workers.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: The other thing, too, is you have Obama condemning inequality after running the country for five years. That's like a citizen complaining of graffiti as he holds a can of spray paint.

BECKEL: Wait a minute --

PERINO: That's what I don't understand --

BECKEL: The manufacturing has 27,000 jobs, construction added about 30,000 jobs. Housing value is going up.

BOLLING: This month, this month, Bob, under President Obama, and these are also at the BLS.gov, go right there -- 75 percent of all the jobs President Obama's created, he's created 1.5 million job, 75 percent of those, part time.

BECKEL: Well, let me just say, you keep saying he created those jobs. I keep saying his job creation started when he issued the stimulus --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: The Obama recovery --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: The fact is, we're --

PERINO: But the stimulus was a total bust on jobs. And they even admit that.

BECKEL: Oh, it was a total bust when he inherited 700,000 lost a month from the Bush administration?

GUILFOYLE: What has he been able to accomplish while he's in office?

BECKEL: Saved us from a depression.

GUILFOYLE: He has no personal responsibility.

PERINO: The stimulus dollars did not add jobs. They've actually had -- the government statistic bear that out.

BECKEL: They kept us from a depression.

GUTFELD: You know where the real wealth gap is, it's in D.C. D.C. versus the rest of the United States.

PERINO: That's true.

GUTFELD: That wealth gap is so large, Michael Moore could waddle through it.

PERINO: It's an interesting thing the administration can take credit for the stock market but they don't want to take the blame for the income inequality he espouses, that has gotten worse under his administration. How is that, Bob?

BECKEL: Income inequality has been growing for 20 years in this country.

PERINO: That was Eric's point --

BECKEL: No, what, it's been growing for a long time. It's not any one president's fault --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: The fact of the matter is, yes, it's gotten worse under Obama. It's going to get worse under the next president.

GUILFOYLE: Hyperventilating --

BOLLING: Do you realize how ridiculous --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: -- how much do you want from 500 percent. You either get 500 percent --

BOLLING: Therein lies your problem. You're so worried about the 1 percent, you're not worried about the 99 percent who are doing better over the last four years. That's --

BECKEL: Inequality is called. Inequality is 40 percent versus 280 percent.

BOLLING: I'm very familiar with income inequality. I get it.

But the problem is, liberals who are so mad at the 1 percent will not take the win with the 99 percent doing better.

PERINO: I know that we could do this all night but I really need oxygen, I can't breathe.

GUTFELD: Dana, can I just compliment President Obama? He has done something no other Republican has done in six years. Helped elect a Republican president.

PERINO: Hooray. Hoorah.

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: The chances of that happening are about as --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I don't know, man, I'm beginning to change --

PERINO: Seriously, we like to have fun on Friday. So, we're going to have more fun. The next topic, Rand Paul thinks he can save the bankruptcy city of Detroit with good old-fashioned conservative economics. Eric spoke with him exclusively today. We're going to hear part of that interview, next.

And this song came to me on a dream this morning. I haven't been able to get it out of my head. So, now, from my head to yours.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Welcome back, everybody.

Senator Rand Paul brought his conservative message of economic opportunity to the largest city in American history to declare bankruptcy, Detroit. This afternoon, the senator unveiled his plan, declaring Detroit an economic freedom zone, which includes a flat and low tax, a scaled back EPA and an outreach to the African-American community.

In television exclusive, I sat down with Senator Paul and asked him if politicians on both sides of the aisle were doing enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Five years of Obama economic policies have led to very high elevated unemployment in the black community. And, frankly, the Republicans are perceived as not really caring about minorities. What's your plan?

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I think we're going to compete -- the Republican Party as far as I'm concerned should compete for every voter in every city in every state. And I think we do that by bringing our message to the people, I've been hearing it. And this is a message of economic -- economic empowerment. It's also a message of school choice.

If you want to get ahead in our country, it's through education and so many people in our big cities, often minorities, are being short changed by a bad school system. We want to make it better through competition by giving every kid the choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So, K.G., one of his plans was a flat tax, 5 percent for corporations --

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: -- 5 percent for income and some -- no capital gains, et cetera.

So, he's looking at a low income tax area.

GUILFOYLE: Of course, he is. But this is such a great idea, because it's a perfect application, perfect test case to see how this can work, to show the country these are economic principles that can be applied uniformly to create jobs, economic prosperity, help bring everybody up, Bob.

You have to be courageous and you to try to get your message across there, to convey these ideas. I'd take someone to make it first, to make it happened, and I think this would be a really good opportunity --

BOLLING: Great point, it's already bankrupt, right?

GUILFOYLE: I mean, what do you have to lose? At least he's coming up with something. It's not writing off Detroit. You can't write off American cities.

BOLLING: All right. RGB?

BECKEL: First of all, I want to give Paul credit for a couple of things. He went to Howard University and spoke to black students when no Republican was willing to go and do that. I think that took a lot of courage.

PERINO: And well-received.

BECKEL: The fact he's doing this. Look, these are the kinds of ideas, whether I agree with them or not, I like the flat tax idea, makes a lot of sense. He didn't mention here that he is going to allow immigrants to come in. I better be careful here.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no, relax.

GUTFELD: Keep going, Bob.

BECKEL: It's going so well before.

GUILFOYLE: Stand down, Bob Beckel.

BECKEL: By the way, I want to congratulate you on getting this on your show. I was on your show last week. You got the top rated show --

BOLLING: The number one show in all cable news.

BECKEL: So, we'll see how I do against Paul.

BOLLING: Beckel can light a fire in a crowded room and make things happen. His plan is not only economic, it's also education, it's also regulation. It's socioeconomics.

BECKEL: I love that he goes, he talks about it. On the EPA stuff, I would just say from a messaging standpoint, you have to be very careful, if you're going to say that you're going to reduce EPA because moms here, dirty air, dirty water, my kids aren't going to be protected. So, they have to be careful with the message like that.

I mean, I think Kentucky's got a lot of problems, probably could use his attention right now and they would love his attention. I think he's setting himself up for possibly bigger office in the future. And that this is something that is bold and courageous.

BOLLING: And exactly right, Dana's right --

GUILFOYLE: It's a platform --

BOLLING: One of the first outreaches by the GOP to the African- American community.

GUTFELD: Detroit has to be interested in having problem solvers, because they haven't been interested in solving these problems for decades. If tax breaks and easing regulation help revitalize a city, what does that tell you? It tells you that tax increases and increased regulation strangle a city, and makes it impossible for it to grow.

The scary thing about Detroit is we keep talking about ii being rock bottom. I think it's rock bottomless. As long as there's something to squeeze out of that city for your own corrupt needs, you're going to do it. The Democrats have had their shot. It was a knockout, it's time for them to get out and let the Republicans have a shot.

BECKEL: It said all Democrats there -- were not corrupt. There were a lot of them.

GUTFELD: They're all in jail, Bob.

BECKEL: I'm willing to say, if this works, I pray it does work, I'd be willing to say, you're right, that low taxes and low regulations help. But I'll be the first one to come out and say it. I think it's a good idea for Democrats to stand back and not criticize this right away and say, what other choice here. Let's go and try to do it.

GUTFELD: It's the Republican ObamaCare.

BECKEL: By the way, there's a precedent for this. You know, the free trade zone in Texas -- Ross Perot --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: They want us to tease.

But very quickly, Kimberly, there are a bunch of other cities, in fact, the state, the whole state of Illinois is probably in worst shape than the city of Detroit.

GUILFOYLE: Right. That's why I think this is a great platform. And you're right, it does show that he has higher aspirations. But I like a man of ideas, vision, purpose.

And like Dana says, you have to be bold and have fresh ideas like this to be able to attract attention and generate interest.

BOLLING: All right. We got to go. Be sure to catch the rest of my exclusive interview with Senator Rand Paul tomorrow on 11:30 on "CASHIN' IN."

Next, a New York City politician thinks the knockout games happening partly because some African-Americans are frustrated with Jewish people?

And later, Kim Kardashian's charity scandal. She's taking some flak for an auction she held after the deadline typhoon in the Philippines. Bob's got that story directly ahead on "The Five".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Welcome to another episode of "Blame the Jews."

On Tuesday, New York City Councilwoman-elect Laurie Cumbo posted a letter linking black on Jewish violence to black resentment over their Jewish neighbors. She writes, "Many African-American/Caribbean residents expressed a genuine concern that as the Jewish community continues to grow, they would be pushed out by their Jewish landlords or by Jewish families."

She adds, "I respect and appreciate the Jewish communities family values and unity. While I personally regard this level of tenacity, I also recognize for others these accomplishments trigger feelings of resentment."

So, success of one group leads to resentment in others, then violence. It's happened before. Ask a Jew.

I credit Ms. Cumbo's honesty, however. But calling this concern genuine may not help. Resentment towards success will always exist, but you should never call it genuine. In America, we destroy such envy through opportunity. Instead of hurting someone for doing good, you do better. Divisiveness is deadly.

The problem is, we live in a time that being mocks such thinking. From schools to TV to music, we're told success by others comes at a cost to you. This envy can be resisted with strong families and communities which Cumbo complimented the Jews for.

What her citizens resent is actually what prevents resentment. Cumbo probably can't come out and say, "Do what the Jews do", because unlike blaming the Jews, that would be racist.

So, Bob, you know, we -- I read the whole letter, so did you. She's very sincere. It's a thoughtful letter. She condemns the violence. She preaches zero tolerance against these knockout things or whatever you want to call it, whatever you want to call this proliferation of violence.

So, she's not an apologist. But there is that level of kind of, like, it may not be your -- entirely the community's fault.

BECKEL: You know, one of the things that bothered me about this, and has for some time, I've had this discussion with Jesse Jackson many times, it was the Jewish community that funded most of the civil rights movement. It was the Jews who understood the plight of people in chains and they were willing to put their money behind it and their bodies behind it.

And then when the Jews came in a lot of neighborhoods and they bought the corner store and they made the corner store viable. I remember talking to Jackson. We had a loud conversation. He said, look, they own the corner store. Then the Koreans come in.

I said, why doesn't a black person buy the corner store right? I mean, what's wrong?

But the idea of trying to say it's because the Jews have been successful, because the Jews helped -- identified with blacks. Those are the two groups I always looked at together and now to hear this, again, it's been resonating for several years, is sad.

GUTFELD: K.G., maybe -- I think she meant well. Maybe she was trying to head off a bigger problem within her community that it might get worse and she was trying to stop it and maybe she made some mistakes.

GUILFOYLE: I think if she was probably in her own mind well intentioned, but she was inartful in the way that she expressed it. I think the larger picture is really to really just focus on ending the violence and working with the police and community policing to create awareness, not foster any kind of hostility. And I think unfortunately what she did kind of backfired, I mean, given the benefit of the doubt.

But that's not really going to help the situation. I mean, you have to understand that neighborhoods are always evolving and changing and that's what happens. You're not going to be able to stop it, but don't try to pit one group against the other.

GUTFELD: But I mean, Eric, what if she's right what if it's resentment? You can't put a ceiling on achievement but at least she has the guts to say it maybe?

BOLLING: I guess, but saying does it condone it, does it give the implication it's OK because there's a reason for the resentment? Which, by the way, there is a resentment.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: The communities, the -- let's call it what it is, the Jewish community and the black community for some reason has major resentment for each other. I don't know if it's that. It seems petty to say because they put a corner store up and it's viable that they should be resented for it, the Jews. I don't know. It may go deeper than that. I have no idea though.

GUTFELD: Dana, didn't she say something about not succumbing to American culture?

PERINO: I could read this both ways, OK? But the entire letter, but this is what stood out to me that I don't like. She said, "I am particularly inspired by the fact that the Jewish community has not assimilated to the dominant American culture."

What's that code for?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: That's basically, what, all of us? Like what's so wrong with American culture?

BECKEL: Nobody wants to assimilate to might culture.

PERINO: The great thing about the dominant American culture is it's a mixing pot of all sorts of melting pot of all sorts of different things.

BECKEL: Yes.

PERINO: I was going to say mixing bowl, melting pot.

GUTFELD: Bob is a melting culture.

BECKEL: Me and Eric are --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: In a bowl.

GUTFELD: They're yelling at me.

Coming up, the moment you've all been waiting for, Bob's annual light show outside Washington, D.C. He's got his home already, one last time -- it sounds so grim, one last time -- for Santa Claus to come to Bob's town.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Here we go. Help the local economy. Buy more lights, all from China. Another Christmas, a lot more money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: The Beckel Christmas spectacular is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Is everybody ready?

AUDIENCE: Yes!

OBAMA: Five, four, three, two, one!

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is that guy?

BOB BECKEL: All right, that was the first family lighting the national Christmas Tree just moments ago. Many of you know Christmas is my favorite time of year. I've been putting lights up around the D.C. area and the homes I've owned there for 20 years now. But this will be my last time in the D.C. area doing a house. I'm going to be here in Manhattan decorating my apartment.

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: It was bittersweet. And our cameras were there to capture it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Another day, another Christmas, all righty.

You know, I tell you, I've been doing this for twenty some years now. I don't suppose I'll miss all the work that goes into it, but I know the kids will miss it and that makes me feel a little bad, but it is a little sad. I bought enough Christmas tree lights to wire Manhattan. They make these things so that they can be absolutely sure that by the time you get to the next Christmas season, they're all broken. Every year, I got to go to the store.

Why would they build anything that lasts? Hell, if they did that, they wouldn't be able to sell everything every year.

Here we go. Help the local economy, buy more lights. All from China. Another Christmas. A lot more money.

It's about time. It's my young son, the helper.

This is what it's all about. This display is for all the kids in Brookmont, which is my which is my neighborhood. From the big kid who lives here.

Hi, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Good.

BECKEL: What do you think? Do you like it? Pretty twinkly. We have A good dog - it's reindeer. So that ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh really? You do great job! And it's time that we are putting this wavy!

BECKEL: Well, here we go. This is the end product of a lot of work and we have got to see if this thing will come on. This is the last one we're going to do here in Brookmont. In fact, the last one I'm going to do at a house. And we're going to try this. Three, two ...

Woe, it worked! Here you go. Bye golly, another year, another house. The last time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Thanks to our producers, too.

PERINO: Yes!

BOLLING: It was great. That was the best one!

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Hold on. I have a question for you.

BECKEL: Yeah, what?

BOLLING: Expensive, right? All the electricity?

BECKEL: Yeah, except, did you notice my neighbor next to me? Talking about Jewish people. They're Jewish, and they leave for December, so I plug into their outlets.

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: No, I can go separately. But actually, the bill is ...

PERINO: Oh, my gosh.

BECKEL: I want to put a sign up.

PERINO: You just blew up the segment.

BECKEL: This was for you PEPCO, that's the electric ...

PERINO: I bet you did.

BECKEL: So anyway, but I enjoyed it. And I will miss --

GUILFOYLE: Wait a second. Did your neighbors like you, Bob?

BECKEL: No. Because what happens is once that thing lights, everybody starts driving down from out of the neighborhood and they can't park their cars. Which is too bad, because I'm living anyway.

(CROSSTALK)

MCGUIRK: They have a union protest.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Christmas cherubim (ph)!

BECKEL: There you go. All right, one more thing is up next.

BOLLING: Susan did that.

BECKEL: She did. She did a great job.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my goodness. It's a time now for "One More Thing." We begin with Ms. Perino now.

PERINO: As we should.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

All right. The U.S. Air Force band, they surprised museum goers at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. This is great. They just started -- they wanted to promote their 29 holiday shows. So I think that we have a slot here in just a second that we're going to toss to. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: The expressions on the museumgoers' faces were just great. And I congratulate the U.S. Air Force band for their first photo bombing of a museum. I think that's what they call that.

MCGUIRK: Yesterday was the last day of Hanukkah. I was just putting the menorah away. I had no idea.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: You have so many jobs at Fox News. It's unbelievable.

MCGUIRK: We have thousands of ...

BOLLING: You've got your backing for you ready - OK, good.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: You know, chef, I got a really cool one more thing, that you would really have loved, my one more thing this is a huge NCAA football college weekend, championship weekend. Check out these games. Number one, Florida State versus Duke, number 20. 20 and up - 20 and half point, favorite Florida State. This one, number two, OSU against Michigan State. Look for OSU. And the big one, I think this is going to be the best game of the weekend, Auburn against Missouri Tigers. Both Tigers. But chef would have - he would have ...

PERINO: Do you need my predictions on that?

GUILFOYLE: Shep is on the news deck. All right. Greg?

MCGUIRK: What is this? A not cool cozy.

GUILFOYLE: Cozy.

MCGUIRK: Isn't that neat? Go (inaudible) buy my book. All right.

(CROSSTALK)

MCGUIRK: Nearby, OK, a couple of days ago, I banned close proximity and I said replace it with nearby. It turns out nearby is really close proximity. Near and by. Instead of using nearby, use near or by, or close.

BOLLING: Or close.

MCGUIRK: Close is good. And I'm at O'Reilly at 8 o'clock.

GUILFOYLE: OK. You've become that guy ...

MCGUIRK: In 20 seconds!

GUILFOYLE: That's selling cozies on your website? Really? You should ban yourself. Ban yourself, please! Save us! OK, Bob?

BECKEL: You know, my favorite person Kim Kardashian ...

MCGUIRK: Yes.

BECKEL: She had an auction for - on eBay for the people who were suffering by the hundreds of thousands in the Philippines typhoon. So, she auctioned off all these material. You know how much ended up going to the victims?

BOLLING: No.

BECKEL: Ten percent. And she made a profit on it.

GUILFOYLE: That's ...

BECKEL: That should be Kim to offer that up -next time, maybe you want to think about, if you're worth 40 million bucks, why don't give you it all to them? Wouldn't that be a nice idea? Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: She's got enough money, right. OK. Well, so this is celebrity revenge, justice. Gwyneth Paltrow went on a massive campaign emailing all her friend celebrities to basically boycott "Vanity Fair," their party, the whole deal because they were going to write an unflattering or aggressive piece against - Now, apparently, radar on line saying that they have turned soft and it's sort of a nice little cuff piece.

PERINO: It would never to a Republican. It would never, ever happen to a Republican.

BECKEL: Oh, sure, it wouldn't.

GUILFOYLE: You think she's at the Hollywood elite. All right. Now, don't forget to set your DVR so you never, ever, ever miss an episode of "The Five." We're going to see you back here Monday. Have a great weekend.

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