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The Five

ObamaCare's impact on employer health care plans

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 26, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Andrea Tantaros, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

PERINO: A massive snowstorm moving east could disrupt Thanksgiving travel for millions. Ice fell in Virginia early this morning, and the system is gaining momentum as it pushes east. This as the storm threatens the busiest travel day of the year tomorrow.

And Rick Reichmuth is in the FOX Extreme Weather Center tracking the latest.

Rick, what have you got?

RICK REICHMUTH, FOX NEWS METEOROLOGIST: I'll tell you what? We're going to have a lot of wind and a lot of rain. But the big cities, all the big airports, it's going to be rain, not snow. So, that's at least some good news that will help with the airports.

Here's what we're looking at right now. There's been a lot of rain today and the only big delay we have across Eastern Seaboard right now is at LaGuardia. It's about a 28-minute delay for arrivals, about 15 minutes for departures. So, we're looking pretty good. There have been a number of flights that have been cancelled.

And this is a look at the storm. It's a big storm, the entire Eastern Seaboard. Tornado concerns across parts of Florida. We have a watch in effect until 10:00 p.m. tonight. So, you need to be aware of that.

We are watching the snow across interior sections, but it's going to quickly turn over to rain. Much warmer air is going to start to filter in across parts of the Eastern Seaboard. Get ready to see those temperatures climbing into the 50s overnight, from Washington, D.C. and towards New York City, and eventually, towards Boston.

So, the snow stays far inside places like Buffalo, down towards Pittsburgh. But eventually, you'll notice some snow down across parts of the Deep South. No real accumulation except maybe North Georgia Mountains.

By tomorrow afternoon, we're still dealing with this. It has gone by the time we get to Thursday, we're going to be just talking about a cold and windy day. But precipitation will be over for everybody. So, if you can drive on Thursday, do it instead of Wednesday.

PERINO: OK. Rick, I love the weather.

REICHMUTH: I know you do.

PERINO: Thanks so much.

REICHMUTH: You bet.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: That's interesting.

PERINO: OK. Something caught my eye earlier today. I want to kick it off with this because before we get to ObamaCare, can we talk about the travel delays and the reasons for all the travel and the concern? Could it be what the head of AAA said earlier today?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARSHALL DONEY, AAA CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER: There's also been the issue of the government shutdown weighing heavily on people's mind and not just about the last shutdown but about the decisions that have been deferred to January. So, Americans are aware of that and it creates a sense of uncertainty and has negatively impacted their travel plans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Eric, what about that? Did the government have any effect on people's travel plans or the economy at all?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I'm trying to figure out where they got that.

PERINO: I don't know.

BOLLING: They've been reporting all day that travel is going to be up somewhere around 2 -- between 2 percent and 3 percent and the highest it's been since 2007.

I literally don't know where he pulled that one unless he's --

PERINO: He's not talking about -- it can't be possible. So, people were telling me don't believe that.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: You think so? You think during the government shutdown people said they are not traveling for Thanksgiving.

GUTFELD: I'm using the government shutdown for excuses for everything. I'm thinking maybe spending some more time of my own, government shutdown.

PERINO: Forgot to pay your taxes.

GUTFELD: Government shutdown.

I'm not going to visit my family, government shutdown.

PERINO: I'm going to say that.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: You know, it made sense during the shutdown because some of the smaller airports didn't have air traffic controllers. But now, I mean, I can't imagine what it is. And, by the way, most every airline flew during the shutdown as far as I knew.

PERINO: I think what he was alluding to, because I saw that interview, the whole thing, was that, Andrea, that somehow people were so worried about what was going to happen with the government shutdown that they made financial decisions and economic travel cost decisions based on the government shutdown.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: And who would these people be. Everyone I talked to is concerned about stuffing their face with turkey.

Maybe they cut a deal. I don't know. There's so many deals cut in Washington. Maybe if you sign up for ObamaCare, Dana, there's a box you can check to become a AAA member, or maybe there's some kind of quid pro quo.

PERINO: Special deals, special deals.

Anyway --

GUTFELD: No government shutdown for turkey.

PERINO: Turkeys have to work no matter what.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: All right. We're going to talk about the real topic today. Two big headlines in the news on ObamaCare. NBC News reports large employers citing ObamaCare Cadillac tax in reducing benefits, and then, FOX News reporting that almost 80 million with employer health care plans could have coverage cancelled.

So, the hits just keep on coming, Eric. On this one, can you explain on the Cadillac tax, how that works?

BOLLING: Here's -- you have to take a step back here. Just every single day we talk about, it's something new. Cadillac tax.

Today, we found out that consumer confidence is falling in the economy and they're pointing their finger at ObamaCare. It's just another thing.

Yesterday -- and we didn't even talk about this, pre-existing conditions, right? You're not allowed to charge people more for pre- existing conditions, right?

Smoking is a pre-existing condition. Do you know that some smokers pay two and three times what nonsmokers pay for insurance?

BECKEL: Which I always used to check --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: No, no, but my point -- if you have something that's smoke- related, they're going to figure it out and you're going to get nailed for it. But the point is this, this is just another one of those things that ObamaCare didn't take into account when they were putting these numbers together, the whole thing, doctors leaving. It's a system ready for failure. It will fail. It will fold in upon itself. It has to.

PERINO: There's the Cadillac tax piece of it which basically they're going to drop the plans because of the tax on the Cadillac plans, which are super good plans for people that are able to afford it and have their employer pay for it.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: On the Cadillac plan itself. So, they'll drop it.

Now, Andrea, you know more about this than just anyone I know. On the employer's -- the 80 million about to lose their coverage, for some people, they might hear that number that's outrageous, that can't be true or roll their eyes like Bob is doing now.

TANTAROS: Someone.

PERINO: Yes. Someone at this table.

Can you explain that to people that number is real?

TANTAROS: That number is very, very real. So, companies who have 50 or more employees have to cover their employees, mandated by the U.S. government. So what you've seen up to this point, you've seen a lot of employees get laid off or relegated to part time status. Companies with 53, 55 employees will trim that numbers down.

Other employers are looking at these numbers, benefits consultants like my sister coming back, going here are your rate increase, here are your deductible. A lot of businesses are choosing to self-insure. So, just do it directly to save cost. So, the private markets are coming up with their own solutions. But the majority of employers, Dana, as much as they want to provide health care are saying look we just can't afford it.

So, everyone has to go into the exchanges we're dropping coverage we're not going to pay thousands of dollars in penalties. This Cadillac tax, I mean, look at this, Dana, it kicks in if a company's annual health insurance cost exceeds $10,000 for an individual, or $27,500 for a family.

That's nothing. These are real numbers that we're talking about now, real increase. So a lot of businesses are going, wait a minute, why would I pay 40 percent excise tax, in addition to, either penalties, higher premiums, or higher deductibles, I'll just push them into the exchanges that they can't log on for it.

BECKEL: Explain this to me. So, in other words, people who are currently getting health insurance from their employers, 80 million of them, will be dumped off their insurance.

TANTAROS: Yes. That goes away.

BECKEL: OK. And so did Alice.

PERINO: Bob, this is a number that's not being disputed. It is being accepted. And there's evidence, Greg, that the White House knew it was coming.

GUTFELD: I love how the fact, originally, you're going to lose your plan because it's subpar. Now, you're going to lose your plan it's above par. This is the point. We act like this as somehow against what the administration wanted. They want to create an environment where there's no choice but one the government.

When the world -- as the world forges ahead to a universe of endless options where you can get anything you want, at any restaurant, anywhere else, Obama wants one choice. We are the Jetsons and the Obama administration, they are the Flintstones.

This is a flat earth style of thinking. We're adopting ideologies of countries that we vanquished, which is basically a belief in a monolithic government that is telling us this is what you're going to get. Eighty million going away is just a step towards that.

PERINO: There's a question, Bob, whether or not that's what Democrats really want for it to fail so badly that people decide somehow that the better choice is just to have the government pay for everybody?

BECKEL: Well, it fails that badly, there's no way you're going to get a single-payer plan through the United States Congress. I mean, it's not going to happen. But let me go back and make sure I understand. There's 160 million people working in American jobs, right? Roughly 160 million.

OK. Let's just say 40 million of them, those are not insured. The 40 million figure we throw out there.

PERINO: But those aren't people that were working.

BECKEL: Yes, a lot of them were working with no insurance, sure. Oh, yes.

BOLLING: What's the point?

BECKEL: Well, my point is, if you take those and then you deduct the people who are self-insured, the 15 million or whatever you talked about who are going to get knocked off, so now we're down to roughly 100 million. We're saying 80 percent of Americans are going to lose their insurance.

BOLLING: No, no. People not plans, the difference is some people are working --

BECKEL: But 80 percent of them will lose --

BOLLING: Your wife is insured. Your kids are insured as well. Eighty million people will be dumped off, not necessarily --

BECKEL: Eighty million.

BOLLING: It could be 30 million plan, 35 million plan.

PERINO: Or a plan might cover four people.

BOLLING: Why to you dispute this, Bob, when the White House doesn't dispute it?

BECKEL: I have no idea why they're not disputing. The idea that 80 million plans will be lost --

BOLLING: People, people.

BECKEL: People, 80 million --

BOLLING: Around 311 million people --

TANTAROS: If a dad gets his health insurance through his employer, the employer oftentimes covers the mom and the children and that's why typically in the past too if a child has a heart condition or some kind of illness, it can drive up the cost for the entire company. But that's why we're getting this number because it affects the entire family.

BECKEL: So, the vast majority of Americans will not have health insurance.

PERINO: They'll be kicked off their plan and they'll have to get another one.

BOLLING: You're saying a vast majority, there's 311 million Americans and you're 80 million people have to go somewhere else.

BECKEL: But you're not accounting Medicare is for seniors and Medicaid --

BOLLING: Can I point one other thing out? Cleveland Clinic -- President Obama used the Cleveland Clinic as his -- see how this is going to work. The Cleveland Clinic, we love the Cleveland Clinic. Cleveland Clinic told America that they are going to have to cutback $300 million of expenses because of ObamaCare.

Half of that is going to be in employees and employee wages.

BECKEL: Save a lot of money that way.

BOLLING: This is what ObamaCare is doing. It's driving people out of work.

PERINO: Bob has nothing -- actually Bob has no defense. So, let's talk about the Democrats writ large.

BECKEL: I certainly do have a defense.

PERINO: The CNN poll today showed the congressional ballot, the generic ballot. Look at how quickly things can change in one month. Republicans down 42 to 50 in October. Just a month later, up 49-47.

Two weeks ago, one of the president's main advisers, outside adviser now, said it would be ridiculous and ludicrous for Republicans to try to run on ObamaCare in the mid-term elections. Do you think that's a scare tactic or do Republicans actually have an issue here?

GUTFELD: They do have an issue, but do not underestimate the Republicans ability to screw this up. There's going to be another budget battle and they should play it cool and don't play into the hands of the Democrats.

The one thing, though, you've got to be aware of, do you think Obama is running out of power? That's not the case. Because if you ever played video games, those little power ups where you can run and pick it up. The media, that's Obama's power ups. Whenever he's down, all he has to do is run a certain direction, he picks up "The New York Times," he's got 40 percent more power.

PERINO: Like Pac-Man when you go over the fruit?

GUTFELD: No, the media is his fruit. So, he will never -- I mean, you always think he's down but his friends always come back to help him in the end. They're always there.

PERINO: And speaking of that, Bob, President Obama was in Hollywood this week, raising a lot of money. So, this isn't hurting the Democrats' ability to raise money.

BECKEL: No, they're still out-raising Republicans.

But let me make a point about this. If the election were held today in this climate about ObamaCare, the Democrats would lose a lot of seats. No question about it.

But the idea of taking this climate and taking it 12 months down the road and assuming it's going to be the same come election day 2014, if it all collapses like you say it's going to, then it will. If it doesn't, it cannot get worse than this, and can only get better I think in terms of the publicity about it or it just all collapses and it doesn't matter.

PERINO: Andrea has another point to hear here before we have to go.

TANTAROS: I actually think it's going to get worse, Bob.

I know the administration thinks by delaying the employer mandate, it's going to be able to push it back. But that's just assuming businesses don't plan one year, two year, three years out. So, that's why I think Republicans are smart to run on this because every single day, every single week, there's going to be a new story of a new business where a brand name that people can identify with dropping its employees every single day in districts that they can point to and say, this is a promise the administration said would never happen and Democrats have to defend it.

BECKEL: OK. Yes. Here's -- that's one thing about the Democrats, that's right. They voted for it. The idea that somehow you're going to be able to get outside of this thing and argue that I wasn't responsible for it is not going work. The Republicans have got an issue here because the fact is they have nothing else to run on. Nothing. I mean, zero.

PERINO: Well, we'll see.

BECKEL: This is the most do-nothing Congress.

BOLLING: But if you don't want more of the same, then you don't vote for a Democrat the next time.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Yes, but what I'm saying is, this is -- this is the make it or break it for Republicans.

Greg's point is well-taken. These Republicans had these things happen to them in the past and had uncanny ability to snatch victory -- defeat out of the hands of victory. Now, maybe it will work --

BOLLING: This is big, Bob.

BECKEL: Of course, it's big. Sure.

BOLLING: You look back and you go, are we making too much out of this? Or are we trying too much hay out of this. We're not. This is an absolute failure waiting to happen.

BECKEL : Well --

PERINO: I'm going to get the hook, you know, that big white hook that's going to come up? Pull it out, because --

GUTFELD: Why does it have to be white?

PERINO: Because I'm racist.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: All right. Up next, back in 2009, Sarah Palin was mocked for warning about ObamaCare death panels. Well, now, a "Time" magazine analyst admits that they exist. Should Palin's critics apologize?

And also, Hollywood hot head Alec Baldwin gets canned by NBC. The back story on that.

All that and more, ahead on "The Five".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right. We're going to get back to Alec Baldwin's firing in just a minute, but first, back in August 2009, my good friend Governor Sarah Palin used the term death panel to describe the ObamaCare board that would ration some of America's health care. The left tried to destroy her, PolitiFact named it their 2009 lie of the year. "The Washington Post" gave her four Pinocchios and "TIME" magazine declared, quote, "Palin won't let that panels lie."

And some prominent liberals said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: That's totally erroneous. She just made that up. You know, just like "bridge to nowhere", she supposedly didn't support. There's nothing like euthanasia in the bill.

ROBERT GIBBS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think that for whatever reason, despite many media outlets saying that what Governor Palin was saying wasn't true, she continued to say it. I'll let Webster define how one, what one calls her.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BOLLING: Well, here we are years, later, four years later. And now we now, that was Obama administration who's been lying about ObamaCare and Sarah Palin told the truth about death panels.

Don't believe me. Here's liberal NBC commentator Mark Halperin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they focused on the death panels which will be coming, call them what you will, rationing is part of it. And I --

MARK HALPERIN, TIME: I agree. Huge -- it can be a huge issue something else about which the president was not fully forthcoming and --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you believe that there will be rationing aka death panels?

HALPERIN: It's built into the plan. It's not like a guess or like a judgment. That's going to be part of how costs are controlled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So, Dean, Gibbs, Carney, Obama and the rest of the liberal royalty, you fellows owe Governor Palin an apology and that seems to be a theme lately.

Bob, let's start with you because it wasn't just Mark Halperin, it was also Dr. Howard Dean who recently earlier in the year said, you know what, there are death panels.

BECKEL: Let me put this way -- if she's waiting for an apology from me, she better wait a long time. But I'll tell you what I'm going to go -- I'm going to get a lobbyist to go work that death panel to make sure that I'm not one of the thing that gets the death thing marked on them. It is the most ridiculous --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Hold it.

BECKEL: Mark Halperin?

BOLLING: What's ridiculous? Are there -- is the IPAD board is going to decide who gets what in healthcare going forward?

BECKEL: Yes, they're going to get together, they're going to bring all the millions of Americans together, they're going to look at their health situations, die, live, die, live. No, get out of here.

You can go to a lot of places. But this is really the bottom of barrel. Have we not beat up ObamaCare enough? But now we're going to say that -- why don't we say that they have all these death camps they're going to send people to and let them go die?

BOLLING: Well, that's what the IPAD board is.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Can anyone dispute the fact that the IPAD board will ration health care?

GUTFELD: I think, you know, what happened. I think Palin used the wrong words. President Obama is all about cloaking it in a different kind of language. It was a little too negative death panels. It should have been called burden lifters or maybe after-life treatment.

And really when you think about it, isn't it our duty to die early if that's going to make ObamaCare work? If you look at it, no one is enrolling. The only way it's going to work is if we thin the roles. We have to die to make ObamaCare work. And I think it's out duty, we should be the party of compassion, not the Democrats. We should kill ourselves.

BECKEL: Are you going to volunteer first?

GUTFELD: Yes, I am.

Isn't it weird though --

PERINO: Global warming, too.

GUTFELD: Isn't it weird, though, that the Democrats are a party of compassion? They're pro-abortion, they're pro-death penalty. So, they get you at both ends. And the middle part is easy.

They are telling everybody who is alive and well, you're OK, you got it this far, don't worry about it.

BECKEL: Can we ask our resident health expert here? Can you explain to me how this panel works?

TANTAROS: Sure.

BECKEL: I mean, what are they going to ration? They going to ration the number of open heart surgeries you can have? Is it, I mean, how --

GUTFELD: They might.

BOLLING: Yes.

TANTAROS: Fifteen unelected -- yes, it's 15 unelected bureaucrats who have unbinding power who cannot be sued, appointed by this administration who will -- this is how they're going to do it, Bob -- cut reimbursements to doctors and hospitals. And the most drastically affected are the ones who are the most expensive. End of life care. Cancer patients.

And if you don't believe Mark Halperin, let's look at the president.

The president said, President Obama, the chronically ill and those towards the end of their lives account for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill. We have to have a very difficult conversation about this. He also said his grandmother --

GUTFELD: Not difficult for him.

TANTAROS: He also said his grandmother didn't need that second hip before she died, by the way.

And Donald Berwick, the president's own controversial former Medicare administrator, said the decision is not whether or not we'll ration care, the decision is whether we will ration with our eyes open. Pretty scary stuff.

BECKEL: OK. Let me make sure -- you're going to lose your health insurance plan I understand that, and you're going to be out in the streets and have to go to emergency rooms. On top of all that, what ObamaCare is going to do is it's going to decide whether you live or die. You guys are living some place --

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: They're going to go through costs. They're not going to look at Bob Beckel, and get a good lobbyist as you point out, maybe they will.

BECKEL: They're going to get through cost and they're --

TANTAROS: They're going to see, who is the most expensive?

BOLLING: That's exactly what it is, Bob. Read it and weep. That's exactly what it is. And, finally, liberals are coming around.

BECKEL: No, they're not coming around.

BOLLING: Well --

BECKEL: Halperin doesn't speak for liberals.

TANTAROS: A number of liberal Democrats in the House have come around.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Dr. Howard Dean just called them death panels.

Dana, we haven't talked about this. I'm throwing this out. I hope you're all right with it.

PERINO: I'm ready.

BOLLING: Who is going to be on this panel? Who picks who gets those seats?

PERINO: There will be -- the type of people that help put together Healthercare.gov in case that gives anybody a lot of confidence.

I think what they really objected to with Sarah Palin is the fact it's the language, it's the terminology. It was stark and it was very effective. That's what they were pushing back against.

And now, they have -- just like with everything else, we're finding out what was in the bill and actually what was being said.

I do think that if you're looking to the National Health Service in Britain, death panels maybe that language is too strong for some people but they certainly have knee replacement panels and hip replacement panels and eye cataract surgery panels, and you can wait six, eight, 10 months, 12 months, for the government decide if you're worthy to get the hip, knee or eye replacement.

GUTFELD: They should make it positive, though. Obama should take this -- he should be the Grim Reaper. He should be there -- this is what you got to do for the greater good. Ultimately that's what it's about. It's about the greater good, sacrificing you for this giant idea that has never worked.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: OK. Let me ask you. You're the resident liberal expert on ObamaCare. What's the IPAD board?

BECKEL: I'm a single-payer.

BOLLING: What is the IPAD board?

BECKEL: I have no idea.

BOLLING: Then, stop arguing.

BECKEL: No, what I don't believe is -- I assume these are people that sit there and look at costs as Andrea said and they decide that there are certain costs that have to be curved. Now, does that mean that they're going to say we're not going to have any heart/lung machines?

I don't know -- I can't even believe we're having this discussion. We can't to any deeper in ObamaCare than say, you're all going to die, you're going to get any insurance, that's bad enough. But now, you're going to die because of the health panel, and the government is going to sit there and say you live or die.

It's ridiculous. It's absolutely nuts.

BOLLING: Quoting my good liberal friend here, I have no idea what it is but here's why I disagree.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: We have to go.

BECKEL: What it is, is bull --

BOLLING: The war against smoke is picking up steam. How big brother wants to crack down on lighting up inside your own home is no place say sacred from the government's prying eye. We'll debate ahead on "The Five".

And check out our Web site at FoxNews.com/TheFive.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TANTAROS: Berkeley, California, home of one of America's most liberal universities, they already prohibit smoking in the city's commercial districts, parks and bus stops, and within 25 feet of any building open to the public now.

Berkeley is saying they want to ban lighting up in all apartments and condos where secondhand smoke can spread even inside single family homes.

So, Bob, you've been gyrating next to me the entire time I've been reading.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I'm telling you something, these guys are just -- it's like - - they're like a cancer on the soul is what these liberals and professors are doing. I think it's ridiculous.

TANTAROS: Why take away your ability to smoke in your home?

BECKEL: They couldn't do it. They couldn't do it because I would take my gun which I have under the Second Amendment and I shoot them.

(LAUGHTER)

TANTAROS: OK, good solution.

Greg, guess what? You went to Berkeley.

GUTFELD: Yes.

TANTAROS: You can smoke e cigarettes. You can smoke point. They don't have a problem.

BECKEL: And you can smoke a joint.

TANTAROS: Yes, you can smoke joint. But you can't smoke not in apartment buildings now and single family homes.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's a new kind of moral police. Imagine if you applied this to unprotected sex which leads not to only disease in yourself but can spread disease to others. Smoking, if you smoke cigarettes is unlikely you spread disease. Second hand smoke, that's total scam.

But the fact is smoking essentially hurts yourself. You don't hurt others. So, why can you target smoking but you can't target somebody who sleeps say round? That's -- you're spreading disease.

BECKEL: If they (INAUDIBLE) unprotected sex, I'd have a tank.

PERINO: You know where they have that?

GUTFELD: Where?

PERINO: They have that police in Saudi Arabia.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: They have the religious police they come over and find out if you're doing something wrong in your house. I mean, this is not something -- what they have in Riyadh. I missed something really funny.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: He said if somebody came after him, he would get a tank.

BECKEL: Take my cigarettes, take unprotected --

GUTFELD: It's amazing how you become so pro-Second Amendment when your personal desires are thwarted.

BECKEL: Exactly right. On that, I've always been for guns in the house especially if they come after me for cigarettes or to try to unload condoms on me.

TANTAROS: All right. TMI.

Eric, guess what, the Berkeley City Council is also -- now, they haven't passed this but want to make sure taxpayer money can be used for sex change operations for city employees. They have certain priorities in Berkeley.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Isn't --

TANTAROS: What's so funny?

BECKEL: Liberal professors again, they kill us every night. Now they want to turn every man into woman, every woman into a man. Get them out of the campuses --

TANTAROS: But you can't smoke.

BECKEL: A whole country of transvestites. People can't wear their clothes anymore. I mean, come on. Please?

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: I mean, take my taxes, but don't do it --

TANTAROS: Eric, you can swap genitalia, just not cigarettes.

BECKEL: You can't smoke while having a sex change operation.

TANTAROS: That's true.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Oh, Bob.

BECKEL: They want to use taxpayer money for sex change operation?

TANTAROS: There's a proposal to use taxpayer money to pay for a sex change operation for city employees. Now this vote has been postponed. It's going to be a real nail-biter. I'm sure will cover it right here. But it's a proposal.

BECKEL: So, every cop wants to be a woman?

TANTAROS: If the whole -- let's say there's ten men on the police force and they want to be women. There's a proposal --

BECKEL: I would say that's a shame to the police department. (INAUDIBLE) I think it gets back to liberal professors.

TANTAROS: All right. Very quickly continuing on smoking, New York City, Eric, Mayor Bloomberg, he signed a bill into law on November 19th raising the legal age in New York City from 18 to 21 to buy cigarettes.

BOLLING: I'm still scratching my head why. Some of his motivations he's worried about everything, nanny state, nanny -- America's nanny mayor. You want to smoke? Smoke. You want to hurt yourself? You want to kill yourself? Knock yourself, kill yourself.

But why do we mandate a 21-year-old -- 20 years old you can die for your country but not allowed to buy cigarettes.

PERINO: Also, people smoke pot all around here. When I walk home --

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Every day I walk home, there's 25 people smoke joint on the street and nobody seems to care about that.

TANTAROS: Did you smoke before the show, a joint? You were laughing so hard.

BECKEL: No, I agree. This is where I agree with Eric. First of all, there's not enough evidence out there now that cigarette smoking is bad for you. I mean, everybody's got that point.

And then if you make a decision you do it, well, you made the decision. It's not as if somehow or another, this is going to change everybody's view about smoking. I guess the theory is what? What's their theory? I don't even know --

GUTFELD: It's -- to further, I guess, alienate smokers. The problem is, all these young smokers are going to be hitting me up for cigarettes as I sit outside and smoke. That's tissue, if they can't buy them, they're going to come to me and I don't charge money.

PERINO: Ooh.

TANTAROS: Yes, they will figure out a way to get them.

GUTFELD: Yes, chores around the house.

BECKEL: You think you can get it, of course, you can get it.

TANTAROS: All right. Coming up, I waited tables in my father's restaurant when I was a kid, so I can assure you tips make a big difference to your server when you dine out. But this waitress said a family stiffed her tip because she was a lesbian. But the family says they didn't write an anti-gay -- Bob, stop -- message on her receipt. So, who's telling the truth?

Bob breaks it down on "The Five", next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: A New Jersey couple is calling B.S. on a story of a gay waitress who claimed they left a note criticizing their lifestyle, instead of leaving a tip.

The note read, "I'm sorry but I cannot tip because I don't agree with your lifestyle and how you live."

But NBC New York reports that the couple who are remaining anonymous have a receipt printed at the same date and time for the same bill but with an $18 tip.

So, who do you believe? Does it matter?

At this point, it's not who you believe but who the media wants to believe. Stories like these which often turn out to be fake exists because the media wants them to, for such stories validate our belief that our country is soaking in bigotry.

Now, hoaxers are bad but he media is worse, for their easy pickings. They run these stories without skepticism because they want them to be true. But many are as real as a Bigfoot sighting.

But this isn't a victimless crime. While hoaxers may gain attention, then return to obscurity, that attention comes at a price. Innocent people get smeared and a phony story that America is filled with gay-hating, racist freaks lingers on.

So, what happens when we realize that hoaxes outnumber hate? Race baiters lose their jobs and desperate dividers have to find a new life of work? Until then, there will be slurs on walls and bigoted notes on receipts, and the real guilty party will be the hacks who want it to be real.

So, this is the sound on tape of the couple talking about this. It looks like a mob interview. Go for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's doctored up our check.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a disgusting thing to do to write that, you know, the restaurant profits from this. Obviously, Dayna is profiting from this. And it's fraud. It's a scam.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Why would Dana -- why would they do this anonymously.

PERINO: I didn't know I was profiting on this.

GUTFELD: By the way, she's named Dayna. And the waitress, by the way, says that this, you know, this really, really happened.

Should we run the tape of her denying this one? We do that now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: It's possible you made this up because this isn't their handwriting, and this isn't how they left the check.

DAYNA MORALES, WAITRESS: That's not my handwriting. I don't know again. I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So, she maintains her innocence and the money that she's getting from people charitable -- giving to Wounded Warriors. It's a weird convoluted story, Dana.

PERINO: I mean, I guess it could be that somebody that works with her was playing a mean trick or bullying or sending her a mean message and they used that couple's receipt. I'm glad that the couple stood up for themselves even if they did it --

GUTFELD: Even if they did it?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

Eric, you live in this neighborhood. Could it have been you?

BOLLING: I'm still trying to figure out what happened. So she says they stiffed her and left a note.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: So then they show up with the real one and she says what now?

GUTFELD: She says who?

BOLLING: What's Dayna is saying?

GUTFELD: Dayna is saying that she stands by her story this receipt had this thing written on it.

BOLLING: Two separate receipts for the exact same time, same order.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: So, the family couldn't have made that up, right because they don't have access to the receipts, right? So, someone at Dayna's restaurant is promulgating --

GUTFELD: Either one works.

BOLLING: -- this hoax.

GUTFELD: All right. I'm afraid to go to Bob.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: He hasn't stopped laughing.

BECKEL: Listen, nothing funny about this. Let me get serious here for a second.

GUTFELD: OK, sure.

BECKEL: The way stuff travels around information this day and age around the internet, it becomes truth and people buy into it, whether it's a newspaper or somebody else. That's what scares me. Now, there's a lot of stuff out there about me that's true, but I mean, for a lot of people get really bad stuff and they take this truth, they figure this one story, I think.

PERINO: Like death panels.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BECKEL: Like death panels. You damn right. You're all dying.

GUTFELD: This story was taken as true and then I don't know how the family got involved if NBC found them and had the receipt. Who do you think -- can you tell who is telling the truth here?

TANTAROS: I'm not buying the waitress and I'm not buying her story, because in order for her story to be true, right, somebody would have had to get the receipt, maybe a bus boy and play this trick. Typically, the waitress gets the credit card receipt. She puts it in her profit, it's not like it goes to a manager first.

So, she's the one that first gets it.

GUTFELD: Yes.

TANTAROS: So, unless another customer leaned over a booth and wrote it on there or unless it was a bus boy, I'm skeptical. And this girl did a number of TV interviews before a real journalist thought maybe we should call the family. It's just ridiculous.

BECKEL: Why do you think the people who did this looked like they were on the witness protection program?

GUTFELD: Maybe they were scared.

PERINO: Think of the hassle.

BOLLING: They're going to be called anti-gay. I guarantee there's people out there saying you're --

TANTAROS: Even though the guy said he didn't vote for Chris Christie in New York because the governor doesn't support gay marriage. If I were the owner of this restaurant, I'd be really ticked off.

GUTFELD: Maybe she will throw the bus boy under the bus.

All right. Coming up, Congressman Trey Radel who's getting treatment after pleading guilty to cocaine possession says some people are harassing him at rehab. And Bob has some choice words for those people. That's next on "The Five".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Trey Radel took a brave step when he admitted he had a drug problem. The former congressman, who's undergoing treatment after pleading guilty to cocaine possession last week, says he's doing well, but there are people who are harassing him at the rehab facility.

I'd like to send a message to those who are harassing him if indeed that's the case with the congressman. Leave him alone. He needs some time to get well. And let me tell you why. OK?

Listen, first of all, I'm worried about this, because it means that a rehab facility either people in the rehab facility or themselves have problems or people from the outside are getting in. I've been to several rehabs myself, and you weren't allowed to have people of the press get in there. But nonetheless, he has been harassed by the Democrats. My party has harassed him. His own party has harassed him.

And I think right now these -- this guy needs -- if you ever looked at these Hollywood people who go to rehabs and all of a sudden they're out in three weeks and they're -- all of a sudden they're clean and they -- they have a great message for people. And invariably, they go back.

Well, this guy has got years before he's going to be in a position to really deal with this thing. Right now, he needs to get through the hard part, which is the next six weeks. So please, do leave him alone if you are harassing him. He's not going to gain anything politically now. There's no election now. Let it go. Let the guy have a chance.

PERINO: That's why actually I'm thinking about this over the past week. I do think that he should resign and let the constituents have of his district the representation that they deserve. And if he's serious -- if he's serious about getting well, then maybe hitting the rock bottom is losing your congressional seat because you did the wrong thing.

BECKEL: Greg, what do you think?

GUTFELD: I was just -- it's got to be weird when you're in rehab with a famous person. Like, because you're supposed to not like -- if you're in with Tiger Woods, yes, it's Tiger Woods. That's all I'd be doing. I'd be sitting across from him, and they'd go, "Do you have anything to say to the group?"

And I'd go, "Tiger Woods! Dude, you're good."

BECKEL: I was in rehab with a famous person, and they quit every two weeks.

GUTFELD: It had something to do with you.

TANTAROS: I said I thought that he should step down. I think there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. And...

BOLLING: A line?

TANTAROS: Yes. A lot of lines, that's the problem. He snorted them after he drew them.

But the lawmakers can't be the lawbreakers. And I feel sorry that he's being harassed. He shouldn't be harassed, Bob, but he didn't even give details when he was pressured. OK, you've been harassed. Who's harassing you? He says I'll leave it at that. So I wonder, who's -- who's harassing him? What's his definition of harassment? Republicans, Democrats to step down, that's not actually harassment.

BECKEL: What do you think?

BOLLING: I think the governor has asked him to step down. I think the Florida GOP has asked him to step down, as well. Maybe -- I don't think he should be forced to step down for whatever reasons. There's a kind of moving target on this drug thing. But I think he may want to stay -- step aside until he gets clean and then takes his...

GUTFELD: He's no Filner. Let's face it.

BECKEL: I'm not taking a position on whether he should. I mean, I don't think he should be forced to step down. But from his own standpoint, how in the world he's going to overcome this and go back into the pressure cooker of Congress and then go into an election season, it's a recipe for getting himself back into it.

BOLLING: What's pressure cooker Congress? I mean, really? Really?

BECKEL: They have to raise a lot of money.

TANTAROS: You mean of a campaign.

BECKEL: They work like 150 days a year.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I'm talking about going out there.

PERINO: I mean, if he doesn't want the media scrutiny, he should resign.

BECKEL: Yes, OK. That's a perfectly plausible thing to say. If you're asking me, I'd say yes.

TANTAROS: He can run again and let the constituents decide.

BECKEL: Yes. That's a good point. All I know is anything right now for the next several months for him are -- he's going to be walking on egg shells and he's going to be falling backwards. It happens. Very few people recover just after one run at rehab. So all right.

"One More Thing is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." I'm so sorry you missed that commercial break, because it was fabulous.

Here's the thing. You love our music that we play on "The Five"? You want to ever wonder what kind of song was that that Greg just played in his block? Well, we now have our play list up on Spotify Web site. If you go to FoxNews.com/TheFive, every day you can get our play list, which is very cool. Sean (ph) gets a hat tip for that. Weird Sean (ph).

GUTFELD: Weird Sean (ph)? Is that what you call him, Weird Sean (ph)?

PERINO: We call him Weird Sean (ph). Bob calls him the weirdest guy he ever met.

BOLLING: You don't call him Weird Sean (ph) in front of him. He's never heard Weird Sean (ph).

PERINO: He's upstairs.

BECKEL: He can't hear.

TANTAROS: You shouldn't call anybody weird, by the way. Pot, kettle.

BECKEL: That's for sure.

PERINO: Andrea, you're next.

TANTAROS: OK.

GUTFELD: What about Fat Kim?

TANTAROS: A lot of families will be having tofurkey. Yes, tofurkey. What's a tofurkey, Bob? Tofu turkeys, in two days. Also a lot of gluten- free recipes and vegan. Like Al Gore went vegan. We were just talking about it during the break. Can you imagine having a torfurkey?

BECKEL: Imagine having a vegan Thanksgiving. Vegan this. I don't understand it. I just -- I don't get it.

TANTAROS: Don't see the purpose.

BECKEL: I mean, go eat Brussels sprouts by yourselves in a field somewhere.

PERINO: All right, Bob. It's Eric's turn first.

BOLLING: OK. A couple of quick updates on two big media stories we have been following. No. 1, Laura Logan has been given a forced sabbatical for -- from "60 Minutes" for her involvement in that Benghazi story. Remember, they dropped the ball on that with that -- with that guest they had on.

PERINO: So someone finally paid a consequence for a Benghazi lie.

BOLLING: Right. Good point, Dana.

And also, MSNBC fired Alec Baldwin for his outburst, the gay slur that he threw, he slung. So they let him go. We'd like to extend an invite to Mr. Baldwin, hot-head actor. Maybe he'd like to sit here for a couple of minutes one day.

PERINO: No.

BECKEL: No, we don't want him.

GUTFELD: It would be fun. So much fun.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: All right. Please come, Alec Baldwin. Bob, you're next.

BECKEL: This day in history, November 26, 1941, Franklin Delano Roosevelt established the modern Thanksgiving holiday, making the fourth Thursday in November Thanksgiving day. So FDR, one of America's great presidents, is greater still. And he ain't a vegan, or wasn't a vegan, I don't think.

PERINO: That little girl is cute in that video.

OK. Greg.

GUTFELD: I just want to point out today's "Post." Through November of this year in New York City, 43 homicide victims were between the ages of 13 and 21.

Last year in the same frame of time, 87. They cut the amount of murder victims in half. The lives -- the majority of lives were young minority men, going back to the point that Ray Kelly has done more to save young minorities than any left-winger every could.

TANTAROS: Put together.

GUTFELD: And he's leaving.

BOLLING: By the way, I think Abraham Lincoln established Thanksgiving in 1862.

BECKEL: No, no. Officially making it the third Thursday in November was FDR.

TANTAROS: Wow, way to help out, leftie.

BECKEL: You have to step on my -- you have to step on my "One More Thing" every time.

TANTAROS: With a calendar.

BECKEL: It's one thing if it was about Obama care, you could do it. But you have to do it on a Thanksgiving story?

BOLLING: Who established Thanksgiving? Was it Lincoln or Roosevelt?

BECKEL: Get out of here.

GUTFELD: I thought it was Christopher Columbus.

PERINO: Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of this stuff. We're going to see you back here tomorrow.

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