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ObamaCare navigator investigation

This is a RUSH transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," November 13, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

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O'REILLY: All right this will make Kate Obenshain feel better I just got handed this poll and the question -- this is a Fox News poll. The question is, "The President knowingly lied or not?" Ok. He didn't know, didn't know about the law -- 40 percent;, knowingly lied -- 50 percent.

So the folks are on Kate's side. Of course it's all an opinion but it's an interesting opinion.

Now in the "Factor Follow up Segment" tonight, on Monday we ran a report on Project Veritas a conservative group that runs undercover stings to expose alleged wrongdoing. In this case Veritas sent a man to Dallas in Irving, Texas to talk to Obamacare navigators in training.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other stuff I do is like barber or I'll go and you know clean houses and things like this just to get extra money on the side but I have never filed that type of stuff on my

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you file taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- by my taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're supposed to file a percentage of it. Don't get yourself in trouble by declaring it now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes it didn't happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'REILLY: So in that case the navigator was suggesting fraud. And then there was this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, one more question. They have -- I don't know where it says -- it said something about if you smoke or something that, I really don't smoke, I may --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You lie because your premiums will be higher.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'REILLY: You lie in that case deceit in play.

Joining us from Washington Chris Jacobs who works for the Heritage Foundation. So tell me about this navigator program over all. How much money is involved and how many people have been hired.

CHRIS JACOBS, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: There are hundreds of millions of dollars involved Bill there are actually three separate programs. Navigators themselves at $67 million in spending. There is a separate program for states that are operating their exchanges. Tens of millions of dollars in spending going out through that and then a third program community health centers were given $150 million from the Obama administration to try to get people signed up in Obamacare.

O'REILLY: All right now the navigator -- the navigator philosophy or guidelines is simply basically when a person has a question, they go on the phone, computer, in person, can it be all three?

JABOS: Yes, in theory, the navigators will help people on the Web site and try to get them to sign people up using the Web site. Unfortunately, a lot of navigators are having the same problems because the Web site doesn't work for the navigators just like it's not working for millions of other Americans.

O'REILLY: All right. So, in this case, the project Veritas crew went to a community center run by the Urban League which I understand got a million dollars and more to set up navigators in a physical facility, right?

JACOBS: Sure. And these people are coming to -- in community centers or trying to go out and find people and get them enrolled and get them through this convoluted complicated process on the Web site.

O'REILLY: All right. Now, were you surprised that these people in this undercover sting suggested fraud and deceit? Were you surprised?

JACOBS: Absolutely not. In fact, the first video you showed about somebody understating their income is an exact echo of testimony given before Congress earlier this summer. The Congress -- Congressman Gosar from Arizona asked Gary Cohen who is the chief head of the exchanges for the Obama administration. But what if somebody tells a navigator that they're getting paid cash under the table and what is a navigator supposed to do? And Mr. Cohen said well I don't know I have to think about that.

So you already saw that the administration was not doing proper protections -- encouraging proper protections to protect the American people from fraud.

O'REILLY: Ok. So, overall, the impression that I'm getting is that the navigator system is designed to sign as many people up but they don't care what the truth is. They are just going to take people and try to get them as much as they can get them. It's another nanny state give me, give me, give me program. It's not what's fair and what's right. Am I wrong?

JACOBS: Oh, you are exactly right. There are a lot of concerns. There is incentive for people to say they don't have employer based coverage. They -- they are not likely to get caught this year. There is incentive for people to understatement their income because they can get --

(CROSSTALK)

O'REILLY: They get more subsidies and more money.

JACOBS: That's exactly right.

O'REILLY: Right. All right. Mr. Jacobs. What a mess, I mean, really.

JACOBS: Yes.

O'REILLY: What a colossal mess. I don't think in 36 years of journalism I have ever seen a bigger mess than this. And that's my honest thought about it. Thanks again.

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