ObamaCare fracturing Democratic unity?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 13, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: This is a FOX News alert.

Moments ago, the White House released the highly anticipated enrollment numbers for ObamaCare. The administration warned that the enrollment numbers would be low, and for once with regard to anything ObamaCare, they were right.

The numbers are disastrous. After a full month of operations, it's only a fraction of what they expected, as few as 106,000 people made it through the process. Mind you, many of those enrollees haven't even paid a penny yet. Also, recall the bipartisan CBO said they needed 7 million paying customers by March to make ObamaCare work financially.

It can happen, folks, and we've been warning you that this was likely going to be the case right here on "The Five."

The ObamaCare disappointment is toxic. Even to the left, Democrats are jumping ship. Bill Clinton providing some cover for Hillary, and here are some of the others.


JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I don't think that the rollout has been a disaster. It's been another joke. So, I'm totally up to that.
But I'm hoping, but I have no idea how this thing is going to work out on November 30th, but they've got a lot riding on it.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: I personally believe, even if it takes a change to the law, the president should honor the commitment the federal government made to those people and let them keep what they've got.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the president was grossly misleading to the American public. I know right away as a veterinarian, I have my own business, that my policies got canceled even before the Affordable Care Act.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are bigger problems than fixing the Web site. There are bigger problems such as the fact that nobody believes anything they say anymore.


BOLLING: Uh-oh. Uh-oh.


BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Uh-oh, uh-oh, Bob.

BOLLING: A hundred and six thousand.

BECKEL: Gee, why did you come to me first on this good news?

I'll tell you the bigger problem, is for the first time that I can remember, the right media and the mainstream media have come together now and are bludgeoning this. I don't know of one reporter save Schultz on MSNBC who's now defending this. And that causes some real problems. The amen corner is not there.

BOLLING: How can you -- 106,000, Bob. They were expecting 500,000 after a month. They expect 7 million. These numbers are an absolute disaster.

BECKEL: If we had single payer, we wouldn't have it.

BOLLING: Right, right.

OK. Let's talk about the Dems. Carville, guys, go ahead.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Bob's making a really interesting point. The irony of it is President Obama has just lost his health coverage. He's lost the coverage by the media and by the Democrats who basically covered his butt over ObamaCare. But the funny thing is everybody who has covered for him is to blame because essentially President Obama has walked around for the last three years without his clothes on. And now that he's got pneumonia, they bolted.

They're responsible for to the fact that this has failed because they never held his feet to the fire.

BOLLING: Dana, James Carville said there's a lot riding on this.
Boy, is he ever right?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Right, because it's not just the 2014 midterm elections or even the 2016 election. It's actually the whole utopian idea of what they've tried to sell to the American people as these other programs that we've come to all benefit from. So, for example, Social Security. As those programs have not been reformed, you do not have the ability to sustain them going forward.

So, the moment of crisis where you're going to have to have some sort of bargain, a grand bargain, some sort of thing in Washington is getting ever closer. And the liberals are going to be on the losing side of that.

To Greg's point, if I could just mention, I think that "the New York Times" in particular should be called out for protecting President Obama just when he need their help the least. Today, this morning, they refer to Obama's lie about ObamaCare, that if you'd like your plan, you can keep it, as an inexact promise. They keep making up new language.

Yesterday, Jay Carney said that the White House that been sub- effective. All this language that they use to try to provide him some cover which actually has served him the worst.

BOLLING: All right. So, let's shine the light on the numbers. Ands, 106,185, that's a total, we're not sure how many of those are paying. But kind of interesting buried in that number, we don't know how many people of that -- of those 106,000 are young people. They're very important.


BOLLING: Also, 3-1 signed up at the state level rather than the federal level. What are these numbers telling you?

TANTAROS: We also know that these are selected plans, right? We talked about this yesterday. These may be plans that are in people's shopping carts, but they haven't purchased.

In order for them to be counted, you have to pay a premium. That's how you calculate getting a plan. The first premium is paid, has not happened yet.

So, these numbers are just a bunch of baloney. But it's like what they did right before the presidential election. They changed the formula to make sure the jobs number would look rosy for them.

They're all about changing the language as Dana mentioned. Now, they're changing the math. As you pointed out, we don't know how many of these people are young. We don't know how many are healthy, because you need healthy people in the system.

Also, they have been lying to us about a number of different things.

And, Eric, I have to call Democrats out on something else. They are continuing to lie to us. This bill that Dianne Feinstein has gotten behind, the Landrieu bill, is a fake, phony fraud.

It is something to stem the bleeding. It's a CYA move to cover their butts. It's not going to do anything to save these people's plans. Those plans are gone, baby, gone. They are still lying to their constituents, and the constituents need to know this.

BECKEL: Well, let's remember that the vast majority of Americans are going to keep health insurance the way they have it now who work for employers.

TANTAROS: That's not true.

PERINO: That's not the case.

BECKEL: Yes, it is.

TANTAROS: No, it's not true, Bob.

BECKEL: Who at FOX is going to get their plan changed?

TANTAROS: If it was so --

BECKEL: Who at FOX is going to get their plan changed?

TANTAROS: If it was so wonderful --

GUTFELD: A couple of thousand people, Bob.

TANTAROS: -- why wouldn't they delay the employer mandate?

BOLLING: Can I give you the number? When the employer mandate kicks in in a year, some 93 million people will likely lose their health insurance, 93 million. That's almost one-third of the population.

BECKLE: Where did you get that from? Did you get that from Rush? Or did you get from --

BOLLING: It's all over the place.

No, no, I think "The Wall Street Journal" reported that number.

BECKEL: OK, there you go.

BOLLING: And "Forbes", right -- "Forbes" and "Wall Street Journal."

BECKEL: OK, that's good. They're good ones.

Listen, I think that --

PERINO: Who would be better to you?

GUTFELD: Media Matters.

PERINO: Who would be better? Like "Pravda" sent us an e-mail that said that 93 million people --

BECKEL: I think these projections -- look, I know you don't want to talk about single payer. Let's keep on this. I -- the question now -- let's talk about the politics of it.

I mean, I could argue -- you could argue -- you keep throwing these numbers out of some -- you keep talking about the Beckel almanac. I'm beginning to wonder where the Republican Bolling ObamaCare numbers are --


GUTFELD: They were reported by the government. I don't know what you're talking about.

BECKEL: No, 91 million people will be off their insurance policy. I think that's just crazy.

TANTAROS: Many employers are already dropping them now.

BECKEL: Can I just make a point about the Democrats here? Clinton did not only give Hillary some cover, but he gave cover for other Democrats to move -- I don't know where they'd move. This is the problem. I don't know what the solution is.

But there is a growing and almost unstoppable movement among Democrats to get out from underneath this thing for 2014.

BOLLING: It's so good, they have to get out from underneath it.

PERINO: Can we praise John Boehner on this? Because when he said there will be a vote on this on Friday, that put the squeeze on the Democrats to the point that they all had to basically figure out some way to scramble. What I love about this, the Republicans are not stepping in to help them at all. They'd let them fall.

BOLLING: May I do this? Can we get --


BECKEL: Why do they always let them fall? Why do you always let them fall?

BOLLING: You want to talk numbers? Here are the real numbers. The American people, what do they care about? Take a look.

President Obama's approval rating, 39 percent. That's a record low.

And look at this. The difference between approval and disapproval, 15 percent. I can't remember any president with that kind of spread between approval and disapproval.

BECKEL: Oh, come on.

PERINO: Oh, I knew one.

BOLLING: The most important one right here. In a month, since the October 1st rollout, look at this. Do you trust President Obama? Is he trustworthy and honest? It went 54 percent to 44 percent.

Bob, a 10 percent slide in his trustworthiness among the American people.

BECKEL: That's the most dangerous of those polls numbers.

BOLLING: Absolutely.

BECKEL: I've seen the rest of it. There are been plenty of presidents that had 15 percentage points difference. I don't (INAUDIBLE).

BOLLING: At 39 percent, though?


BECKEL: Yes, absolutely.

GUTFELD: These poll numbers -- these poll numbers don't mean anything if the Republican poll numbers are just as bad.

BECKEL: That's a good point.

GUTFELD: And the fact is, until the Republicans actually come up with a meaningful response other than you suck, it doesn't matter because these crises come and go, as we've used the metaphor before. They need to actually come up with a legitimate -- an action plan with likable,
accessible candidates or they're just going to have, we're going to keep --

TANTAROS: The Democrats have actually given them a huge gift. This is going to be the biggest failure from the Democratic Party in our time.
The Republicans can't just do what they typically do when your opponent is lighting himself on fire, get out of the way. They need to grab the gasoline and they need to continue to pour it on them while they're offering solutions.


TANTAROS: Eric, what about the shareholders of these insurance companies? By the way, if I was a shareholder of these insurance companies, which Bob and I agree are bad people, they should demand that management come clean to ask, what are the financial implications for the company? Are they going to pass down higher costs to everybody at this table and watching? I mean, the insurance companies were quick to take a deal with the White House. So --

BECKEL: They've had the biggest increase among the biggest increases of any industry in the stock market. I don't know why the stock market --

TANTAROS: They're still more recording --


BECKEL: But here's the question -- how does Republicans or anybody in Congress with a 9 percent favorability rating now, which is the lowest Gallup's ever had, how do they possibly offer an alternative? Obama's in far better shape than they are.

BOLLING: He may be in better shape, but it's not boding well for anyone who's going to have to go up against the Republican in 2014.


BOLLING: Why? This plan, this law, is a disaster. Unmitigated disaster.

BECKEL: You're assuming, as many people do, that the last campaign will be run. You're going to be up against somebody who is not Obama and it is not --

BOLLING: No, I'm not talking 2016. I'm talking 2014 when these seats come up, when the Senate seats come up. When some -- in fact, Democratic senators are trying to push away from ObamaCare right now, trying to latch onto Mary Landrieu - -

PERINO: Kay Hagan of North Carolina had a disastrous conference call yesterday with reporters, not because -- it's not that she didn't have a good answer. It's that it was the way they have very little confidence in ability to defend the president at the moment.

OK, that's fine. In the midterms, you can run on your own. However, if Republicans are smart and so far they have been, just basically placing the cloak on the Democrats with a big sign that says, why did you repeat the ObamaCare lie? That's all you have to say. Very simple.

BOLLING: Just -- put this under their face. You built that.

BECKEL: Then let's put this under their face. What are you going to do about it?

GUTFELD: What they have to do --

PERINO: Win first.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's not just an indictment of a Web site. It's an indictment of a way of life.

We talked about the last five years of various miseries and monstrosities that have come from this administration. And they all fall under one umbrella. It's coercion masked as concerned liberalism.

This is the best undergraduate college course for young people who are getting screwed through ObamaCare. They are actually learning. They're learning something valuable here.

BECKEL: You go out there and campaign against entitlements. And you're going to get killed.

BOLLING: Can you do this instead? Can someone just admit that this isn't reducing or bending the cost curve down for health care? There's nothing in this that will make it --

BECKEL: Nothing I've seen so far.

BOLLING: Go back to economics 101.

BECKEL: I agree. I agree.

BOLLING: The only thing that's going to bring costs down is making them more efficient. The only way you make them become more efficient is when you introduce competition. What do you do? Let them fight amongst themselves for the insurees and the real enrollees, and throw the government option in there if you want as well, drive the costs up. That's the only real way.

BECKEL: Do you think insurance companies are going to go after very vigorously people who are not insurance holders?

BOLLING: I think they will.

PERINO: If the government is going to pay their subsidy? Absolutely.
I think one of the most troubling things we had a chance to talk about last week was the report out of "ProPublica," which is the nonprofit news organization. Quoting the guy whose last name is Hammic (ph), basically making a decision to try to make less money next year so that he comes under the income gab so he can get the federal subsidy.

So, he -- we're basically teaching people to want to do less in life.
That is a -- that is a much bigger problem we talked about on here. But I think when it comes to health care, you will find people -- you will find companies that if they think the government is going to pay them, that's the surest bet.

BECKEL: If you take all this, the government out of it, under the current health care system, which is before Obama care was dissolving in front of our very eyes, costs were going up. Insurance companies were decreasing premiums every year for the last 50 years.

What's going to happen?

PERINO: Now, you have all of those same problems, plus 15 million people that don't have their health insurance that they were paying for before. So you've solved nothing.

BOLLING: I have to get this in here because I don't know why. Why do I have to get crazy Eddie Schultz in this show?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: You played him (ph) yesterday.

BOLLING: We have to. Listen to this guy. I called him a buffoon yesterday. I'm calling him a crazy buffoon today. Watch.


ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC: The mainstream media I believe wants ObamaCare to fail. They look for every negative number they can find. They're afraid to do a positive story because they're afraid that somebody might not watch.

The media is just cherry-picking the bad facts that are out there, repeating them over and over again. And in many cases, they're making stuff up.


BOLLING: Let's go around.

Go ahead, Bob.

BECKEL: There's a kernel of truth to this. The news media are figuring out every little negative story they can find, and there are some positive stories.

TANTAROS: The news media, Bob, doesn't have to do anything. The numbers coming out write the stories for the news media.

As Greg pointed out, where was the media a few years ago? And also, the big key to this is the subsidies. That's when the economists say this thing is going to die its own death, it's going to have a death spiral, do you really think the biggest spender, President Obama, is going to let this thing die? He is going to raid -- he's already raided Medicare -- every program he has to subsidize the insurance companies.

And again, these Democrats that keep saying they have a plan to keep your plan do not believe him, there's no way they can do it. They can keep them from maybe a couple months.

But think about it, Eric, a federal mandate and employer mandate for insurance but let the states define the definition?


PERINO: Also, to give the plan back and then take it away again.

TANTAROS: It makes no sense. It's another lie.

BOLLING: Guys, we've got to get out of here.

Go ahead, Dana.

PERINO: I was just going to say, it defies the laws of economics and business.



PERINO: That if you are a company, that you're trying to fulfill a mandate from the government, you tell that to your customer. Now, Congress all of a sudden is going to change it maybe for a year. So, then, what kind of confidence and certainty does that give to anyone in the business community? Not just insurance companies. It actually -- it just defies logic.

BECKEL: What defies logic is you want to turn this all over to the public sector -- sorry, Greg.

BOLLING: I want to get Greg --

GUTFELD: Every time I start to say something, he starts talking.
Number one, what I love -- who cares about Schultz? I love all the leftist commentators who are now losing their plans like Dylan Ratigan. You're supposed to have sympathy for these guys? It's like having sympathy for an orphan because he killed his parents.

The other interesting fact about this enrollment, 34 times as many Americans bought guns as they did for signing up for ObamaCare, which means in America, self-defense is health defense. And it reflects the power of individual choice. And that's what matters.

BECKEL: If you believe that the free market is going to handle all this, why don't you take Medicare away --


BECKEL: Excuse me, you just interrupted me, damn it! Let me finish this.

GUTFELD: All right.

BECKEL: You jump on it. You call it socialism. Let's -- Medicare, has that qualification, so does Medicare, do away with it, Medicaid, and let the free market handle it.

GUTFELD: Absolutely.

BECKEL: OK? Is that where you are? And that's where the Republican Party is?

GUTFELD: Every arena of public --

BECKEL: They've been there for a long time, quietly.

GUTFELD: Let me finish now.

PERINO: That's just crap.

GUTFELD: Every arena of public and private life that has been infested by government has failed. You look at retirement, you look at education, you look at health care -- those are three areas that if it just allowed the free market to explore and try options, which you're so scared of because it's going to succeed, you have to cling to this dying ember of government. It's pathetic.

BOLLING: Very good. We're going to leave it right there.

Next --

BECKEL: Dying ember of capitalism --

BOLLING: Conservatives, grab some pop important because Dr.
Krauthammer thinks you may be watching liberalism collapse in front of your very eyes.

And later, Toronto's crack head mayor made another wild admission today. Rob Ford just confessed to doing something else illegal as his city council holds votes to get him back out of office.

That and more coming up on "The Five".


PERINO: Joshua. We are going to have words.

All right. Welcome back to "The Five".

The Democratic Party has certainly been dealt a huge blow in the wake of ObamaCare disastrous rollout. And could that be lethal for liberalism?

Some conservatives think so, including Charles Krauthammer.


CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: We have not just ObamaCare unraveling, not just the Obama administration unraveling, not just the Democratic majority in the Senate, but we could be looking at the collapse of American liberalism. ObamaCare is the big thing for them.

This is a moment when we have to be calm. We have to understand what holds us together on the right. We have to watch and explain why the failure of the left is happening. And if we do that, we will win.


PERINO: All right, co-hosts, you heard Dr. Krauthammer. He said we have to remain calm. That is the goal. We just had this cross right before


GUTFELD: Too late.

PERINO: -- this segment, Dr. Krauthammer.

Number one "New York Times" best-seller list for his new book "Things That Matter." So, congratulations to him. We just got that news.

OK, liberalism, is it dying on the vine, Greg?

GUTFELD: No. There's never an end of anything because you've heard this said before, every eight years, the end of conservatism, the end of liberalism. It's generally a cycle, and the victor usually vanquishes itself.

Liberalism is both the Titanic and the iceberg. If they're around long enough, big government actually destroys big government. I think.

And I think that happens a lot of times with conservatives. If you're in power for a long time, it falls as part. It started immediately day one of the Obama presidency.

PERINO: Do you remember, Bob, when James Carville wrote that it was the end of Republicans, end of conservatism when President Obama won? And in 2006 when the Democrats took over the majority, you've been around long enough to know, you've seen these types of cycles. Where are we in the cycle of the life and death of liberalism and conservatism?

BECKEL: Not only back to the Lincoln cycle. But I agree with Greg in many ways on this. I am a student of the history of politics.

And if I look back at it, the number of times I've seen the progressive movement buried or the conservative movement buried or go, you know, on back, and they take on different iterations. You take a look at the John Birch Society, Goldwater sort of usurped that, became very conservative and people started to stay from, and then Reagan came along and made it a very, very populist kind of movement.

I think the liberals could take a big hit on this. But Charles is absolutely wrong. There's just no way the death of anything happens in American politics. What you're saying, if that's true, is you end up with one party.

PERINO: What is your view, Eric, as you look across it the trends?
Especially on the economic side of things.

BOLLING: I think the difference here is -- and I agree with both you guys. Everything is cyclical, and Dana as well.

But I don't think there's anyone that's been as aggressive in their ideology as President Obama and the Obama administration. The guy is the guy who first said we're going to fundamentally transform America and has done everything since then. Think about the stimulus programs, think about the green energy, think about ObamaCare. Everything has been -- take from the wealthy and give to the poor. It's income redistribution.

There's never been this progressive, aggressive progressiveness. I think what we're probably going to do is speed up the cycles.


BOLLING: So, if there was a 20 or 30-year cycle from progressive to conservative, I think it's going to shorten, and people are going to get sick of it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

PERINO: Andrea, I wonder if you thought there was a person or a policy that can bring the GOP factions together. When Charles was talking about we all need to recognize all the things that we are for and our commonalities, is there one thing, you think, that could unite us?

TANTAROS: Well, I think ObamaCare is the policy to unite us. I've joked that Republicans never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Let's hope they don't do it this time.

You know, Greg, you mentioned, you know, conservatism dies, too.
Conservatism typically dies when conservatives act like liberals. That's when they get thrown out. But we have a situation where typically, Dana, Republicans pass laws and they hope people will understand.

Liberals pass laws and they hope that people will never find out.

PERINO: Won't notice?

TANTAROS: Right, they won't pay attention. The Republicans have an opportunity to not just educate the public about health care, but I think they should reach higher. If you look at Chris Christie's exit polls, the one attribute across all stripes, Hispanics, African-Americans, whites, Democrats, Republicans, the one attribute that people said they admired the most in Chris Christie was that he means what he says, and when he says something, he's going to do it.

He says you may not like what I'm going to tell you, but I'm always going to tell you the truth. I think because there's a crisis of credibility with this administration and with liberalism, now's the time that Republicans need to step up and say, we are credible. We warned you about this. If we win, we will fix this.

They have to reach higher than just these small-ball fights over defunding and delaying. They've got to coalesce around credibility and something bigger.



BECKEL: The problem with it, first of all, FDR probably would be accused of being more of a radical socialist movement than Obama.

But the other thing, you've got to remember the Republican Party is perceived overwhelmingly negative and the Tea Party's a big part of that.
So, you've got to fight your own perception before you can stand forward and offer yourself up as an alternative.

TANTAROS: Now's the best time to do that.

GUTFELD: But does that -- that point, fighting in public, you know, when you're married, you don't fight in aisle 3 of Wal-Mart. You buy your stuff, you go home and then you fight it out. That's what Republican have to do.

They have to hide their fighting and remember that the enemy is out there.

PERINO: Public fighting is the worse for couples.

GUTFELD: It really is. I love watching it, though.

PERINO: I hate it! It makes me so uncomfortable.

TANTAROS: Isn't it fun sometimes?

PERINO: Horrible, horrible. I don't like it.

GUTFELD: There's nothing better, especially when there's a little alcohol involved.

PERINO: Oh, no --

TANTAROS: A little alcohol?

BOLLING: One reason to walk over there --

PERINO: All right. Coming up, liberal "Washington Post" columnist Richard Cohen getting heat for some nasty race-based accusations that he made yesterday about conservatives. Details next on "The Five".


GUTFELD: Richard Cohen's last column -- and when I say last, I mean it's probably his last -- he said that people with conventional views must keep from throwing up, knowing that the mayor-elect of New York, a white man, is actually married to a black woman. Because you know, we Americans find mixed marriages so gross.

This dreck caused a firestorm not just from the right but also from the left, which is weird because I thought they loved these racial things.
The real truth, Cohen is a beneficiary of media welfare in which ideology trumps competence, allowing hacks to linger when they should be let go.
This is a guy operating on assumptions gleaned from after-school specials from 1972. He hasn't had a new thought in decades because he doesn't have to, checking the right boxes kept his job.

Hence his boss, "Washington Post" publisher Katherine Weymouth called the column brilliant. She's probably a racist or at least very stupid.

Anyway, a side note to my friends, when my senses falter, it's up to you to tell me, so I don't make a complete ass of myself. If only Cohen had just one pal who whispered you're losing it, Dick, he'd be all right.

But he's not an oddity. His cuddled cranks permeate media like relics in your grandma's house. The only way to retire bad ideas is to retire those who push them. I'm not saying fire the guy at all. I'm saying shame the crap out of him. God knows he has an endless supply so it could take a while.

D.P., I was surprised that the publisher called the column brilliant.

PERINO: I'm not.


PERINO: Because while we might be shocked by it -- and it was the first thing I read yesterday morning. And I sent it to you at, like, 6:00 in the morning.


PERINO: I cannot believe that he actually just said this. But they all live together and talk and socialize with one another. Believe me, they are high-fiving each other especially for the swipe at Sarah Palin.

That comes out of nowhere in the column. He has to take a swipe at her. That gives you six more months on the cocktail circuit.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's right. That's a little badge. If you're a boy scout, you get these little badges for insulting conservatives.

B.B., you must have been -- did you read this column? What do you make of it?

BECKEL: Well, I mean, first of all, it flies in the face of 85 percent of Americans agree with biracial marriage, number one. So, he's running slightly against the grain.

But interesting in most of the polling, the older you get, the less receptive you are. And in Richard's case, he's in that cohort of old. And I think is probably is reflective -- the criticism reflecting of a guy who hasn't been around it or in it for several years is probably right.

GUTFELD: Do you think, Eric, the letter were made because he said conventional people. If he had said conservative, would they have been OK?

BOLLING: Well, probably, but he repeats that conventional people, conventional views. And the problem is that assumes that he knows what conventional is and that I fall into the conventional. As Bob points out,
85 percent of America doesn't fall into conventional anymore. There may have been a time where they did but they don't now.

So, honestly, he can write, but who's buying it? Who's reading it?
We're talking about it because it's ridiculous. But on some point, I think you're right, they need to let this guy go.

GUTFELD: Yes. I don't like witch hunts, but it's like --

TANTAROS: Can he write, though? Is he that brilliant of a writer that he's writing the same column? Attacking the Tea Party is so 2012, isn't it?


TANTAROS: That was actually my point about writing the conventional.
He wanted to say provincial. He wanted to say small-minded and he wanted to say conservative.

It's not conventional. First of all, Bill de Blasio, who he's talking about, knows it's not conventional. In every almost single ad, he embraced his African-American wife and his biracial children.

He used them at rallies. He knows that people are accepting especially in cities like New York City. He ran to it, not from it, which just shows that even Bill de Blasio thinks Richard Cohen is an idiot.


PERINO: I'll tell you in a blind taste test, I would still think that ending stop and frisk is a really bad policy. If you -- we could lay out all of the policies. I have no idea who's proposing them. I could read them.

I could guarantee that I would end up on the conservative side because of who I am. Not because of what they look like. I don't care.

BOLLING: He was for stop and frisk, though, wasn't he?

PERINO: I don't know.

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: Oh, Cohen? I don't know. I was talking about de Blasio.

GUTFELD: Cohen years ago said you shouldn't allow black males into your store. That was a controversy a couple years back. But that's --

TANTAROS: I think we've found the true racist, haven't we?

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. All right. We've got to take a break.

Directly ahead, who makes a better boss? A man? Or a woman? Perhaps a sequential hermaphrodite?

BOLLING: Obvious.

GUTFELD: This is going to end in Mediaite.

What do most employees have to say, and what do we have to say, next.


TANTAROS: Well, if you could pick your own boss, would it be a man or would it be a woman?

According to a new Gallup poll, 35 percent say they would pick a man.
Only 23 percent would want a female boss. And four out of 10 don't really care. Now, interestingly enough, the results haven't changed much since Gallup asked that question back in 1953.

So what do you think, Greg? Who makes a better boss? A woman or a man?

GUTFELD: I don't think it matters. What I thought was stunning about this survey is that women prefer male bosses more than male do. That blew my mind. So, the biggest obstacle to women isn't the glass ceiling, it's the women's ceiling.

And my theory for that is that women have a superpower. They're just charming. You can't use it on other women.

TANTAROS: You know, there was an article in "The Wall Street Journal"
on this, the tyranny of the queen bee. Women are killing other women in the workplace.

GUTFELD: You know, guys can get pretty sucked in by the charms of women.


PERINO: Confession?

GUTFELD: No, I'm just saying nothing anymore right now.

BOLLING: Yes, what are you saying, Greg?

GUTFELD: Nothing. I'm done.

TANTAROS: Well, maybe you could charm a female boss, too.

GUTFELD: It's never happened.

TANTAROS: Dana, now, you think that women are great bosses.

PERINO: My -- one of my favorite bosses ever was Holly Probst. She was the chief of staff for Congressman Dan Schafer's office. She was very demanding, but she taught me a ton. She was very patient with me, taught me everything I need to know because Chairman Schafer was on the Energy and Commerce Committee.

I didn't know the difference between a megawatt and a megaphone. She really hung with me. She was very thoughtful and fun.

What I liked about her is she was not your friend necessarily. We're friends now. But at the time, she was your boss. But my preference is to be my own boss.


PERINO: I don't want anyone to be the boss of me.

TANTAROS: So you're saying females do make the best bosses.

PERINO: I do, because I'm always right.

TANTAROS: Of themselves.

PERINO: Well, that helps a lot.

TANTAROS: Eric, you said you had a very clear opinion before we started this segment, so I'd love to hear it.

BOLLING: No, My opinion was on that survey, it's skewed, 41 said they didn't care. I'm calling B.S. on that. First of all, a survey shouldn't give you that as an option. If you want a male or female as a boss and then we find out what they really thought. I think 41 percent are being PC, I don't really care.

I've never really had a boss -- I played pro baseball for a little while. I guess the coach was the boss. After I got hurt, I kind of went off on my own. I don't know what I'd rather -- I think -- I have one here.
It's a male. I think I'm a better worker.

GUTFELD: Now, you're saying you don't know. You're like the people that say they don't know.

BOLLING: I'm going to say, if I finish, I have a boss here who's a male, I think I would respond better to a male as a boss than a female,
just me. Besides --

TANTAROS: Robert, women or men as bosses.

BECKEL: Well, first of all, you know, the statistics that we play out here, from '53. It was 66 percent of people would rather have a male boss.
That's a big difference than where we are now.

So, I don't -- I disagree with the way we position that. But beyond that, the few percentage of women in the workforce who are actually CEOs, on boards, or on the higher echelons of corporations are, I think, disastrously low. We're not taking advantage of the great aspect of life that women bring --

TANTAROS: Let us save yourself from that question, Bob.

BECKEL: No, no, I'm telling you --

TANTAROS: But which one, which one --

BECKEL: If I had to have a boss -- I'm like Dana. If I had to have a boss, I think I'd prefer to have a woman boss.

PERINO: Did you ever have a woman boss?


TANTAROS: Did you like her?

BECKEL: Yes, it was fun.

GUTFELD: We're not talking about dominatrix.

BECKEL: Oh, we're not?


TANTAROS: Inside the workplace.

BECKEL: I did.

TANTAROS: I've had both. I've had men and I've had women, and I've had great women and I've had great women bosses. I've had some real jerks, women and men.

The best one was a woman, though, Katherine Layman, chief of staff for House Republican leadership. She trusted her staff to do the job. There was a little fear if you didn't do the job, you'd get in trouble. She didn't micromanage. You didn't want to disappoint her.

TANTAROS: Also little praise. You could get a small pat on the back or nice job. It wasn't everybody gets a trophy.

TANTAROS: Well, they say if you have a bad boss, woman or man, we didn't get to this topic, but it's the boss that causes workplace depression which I, 100 percent agree with, don't you? Bad bosses?

I don't care how much work you give me, but if the boss is bad.

GUTFELD: Oh, but you can say the same thing about bad employees, believe me. They can suck the life out of you.

TANTAROS: Spoken like a true boss?


PERINO: Like confession for Greg.

BOLLING: Get out of here.

TANTAROS: We'll call Dr. Phil up. We'll see if he'll talk to Greg.

Still ahead, the chance coke confession. That's right, Mike Tyson admits being high on cocaine during some of his biggest fights.

Plus, another dramatic day at the Alec Baldwin stalker trial. Baldwin bawled on the stand yesterday. What happened today? We'll tell you coming up.


BECKEL: Sounds a little bit like Christmas, New Year's and Easter put together.

Mike Tyson has a new memoir out, and the former heavyweight champ is making all kinds of admissions about his troubled past. One of them is that he was high on coke during most of his boxing career including during some of his biggest fights.

Iron Mike talks about his addictions in a new HBO documentary with the same title as his book, "Undisputed Truth."



MIKE TYSON, FORMER BOXING CHAMP: I really don't know much about my mother. I remember her drinking a lot and always angry, fighting. So, she drank to cover up the pain.

I suppose my addiction started here with her. I was born with that addictive gene. It still haunts me to this day.


BECKEL: OK, can I ask questions now?


BECKEL: What do you think? Are you surprised about Tyson?

BOLLING: I'm shocked. I remember Mike Tyson, the champ, the eight- second knockout, people were just fearful of this guy. Now, he says he was high on coke on a lot of the fights. I mean, not that you could do it on that, but, man, what a great boxer.

I'm not sure -- I guess it's going to tarnish his record, I guess.

GUTFELD: Not much left to tarnish with Tyson.

I don't believe half of this stuff that he says. He needs to keep building up attention. But the weird thing about this is that we keep hearing about Tyson, but you never hear about the other people, the strippers, the hookers, the groupies, the hangers-on that he partied with for 20 years.

The only survivor in a cool, decadent a cool, decadent culture is the guy with the power and the money and all the people that emulate him are dead.

BECKEL: Dana, what do you think?

PERINO: So was he high on coke when he bit that guy's ear off?

BECKEL: I'm sure, yes.

PERINO: And is that a performance-enhancing drug? No, I'm serious.

BECKEL: Well, one thing about cocaine, I would tell you -- it would take away the pain of taking a punch, that's for sure.

PERINO: But is that fair?

BECKEL: Is it fair? No.

PERINO: I don't think it's fair.

GUTFELD: It's not fair, is it?

PERINO: OK. So can we strip him of any of the wins that he got?

GUTFELD: That's a good point.

PERINO: They did a baseball player.

BECKEL: He got stripped of most of them after he went to prison.
Just remember, he went to prison for rape, right?]


BECKEL: So this is not a guy --

TANTAROS: Allegedly. Now, in this book he says what kind of woman shows up at your door at 2:00 in the morning drunk and calls it rape. So, he actually takes that on in this book. But he did -- there's some factual things that he did do and I'm all for redemption, but I kind of agree with Greg here.

I mean, he lied to his ex-wife about having AIDS just so she would divorce him. Even the language that he refers to women in this book on women and African-Americans is so profane you can barely read it. He says today he fantasizes about blowing someone's brain out so he could go back into jail.

So, I have very little sympathy for someone. I do think he needs some kind of help. I don't think he's well. I don't believe his efforts to get sober.

BOLLING: He's not looking for redemption. If I'm not mistaken, he's just looking to sell more books.

GUTFELD: So, he can buy more drugs.

BOLLING: "The Hangover" series, he's in movies as himself.

TANTAROS: But he begged for redemption at that press conference a couple of weeks ago. He said I'm sober for 72 hours. Three hours.

BECKEL: When he started out on tutelage of Cus D'Amato. He was the greatest single fighter I think I ever saw.

TANTAROS: He's amazing.

BECKEL: OK, "One More Thing" is up next. But let's first go to Shep Smith who has breaking news at the FOX News desk.



BOLLING: All righty. Time for "One More Thing."

It says Dagbe (ph), so Dana the D is up first.

PERINO: All right. If you are sick and tired of people, if you are tired of crowds. If you need a little space and you have a little bit of money, you can invest in a ghost town in California near Seneca, $225,000 gets you all of this space, a river does run through it called the Feather River. And it has a very valuable asset, a liquor license. There's not many of those in the county.

I'm telling you, Eric, this could be a really good investment for you.

BOLLING: Dana, you mentioned that. I think we should buy it and call it and rename the town "The Five".

PERINO: There'd be less crowds.

TANTAROS: Less crowds and a liquor license sounds perfect for Greg.


GUTFELD: Yes, and there are ghosts.

BOLLING: OK. Ands, you're up and there are ghosts.

TANTAROS: All right. So, we talk a lot about this fake war on women on the show, but there's a real war, I believe, and it's a war on men out there. You may be familiar with Hollywood actor Jason Patrick from "The Lost Boys". He is in a desperate fight to get rights to see his young son, Gus.

Now, Patrick and his former girlfriend had Gus through in vitro fertilization. It was a decision they made together. Now, since they have broken up, she will not let him see his young son.

And because of a loophole in California law, sperm donors are not allowed to, I guess, get rights to their family. They're working on changing this. He's appealing this case.

But it's another -- it's another story where men are not allowed to see their kids. I think there's a benefit to two parents in a household.
This is a father that wants to have a role in his son's life and they won't let him have it.

BECKEL: Why won't they let him have it?

TANTAROS: Because of this custody law.

So, anyway, there's a big event in L.A. tonight. I'll tweet more about it if you want more info for standing up for Gus. It's a growing trend of keeping dads out of their kids' lives.

You have a dad who wants to be involved and they won't let him.

BECKEL: It's crazy.

BOLLING: You're up, my man.

GUTFELD: It's time for --


GUTFELD: I hate these people!


GUTFELD: I know. That's not attractive.

Let's roll this. This is a public proposal that happened on CNBC.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love your laugh. I even love the way you dance.
Will you marry me?




GUTFELD: Now, obviously, that's very nice and romantic and I'm not going to make fun of them.

However, I can't stand, can't stand public proposals because it's a form of emotional extortion, puts the pressure on the person to say yes.
Maybe they might not want to.

But I have a theory or a law that I want to put in place. If you have a public proposal and the marriage doesn't work out, the divorce has to be public as well.

But I am happy for them. That was entertaining.

BOLLING: Very nice, very nice.

GUTFELD: (INAUDIBLE) to balance that out so people don't hate you.

PERINO: Yes, that was really lame.

GUTFELD: I really can't stand the whole thing.

TANTAROS: Greg, will you go to the bar with me afterwards?

BOLLING: Bob, you're up.

BECKEL: All right. On this day, November 13th, 1982, the Vietnam War Memorial in Washington was dedicated. It has now become the most visited site in all of Washington and rightfully so. It contains the list of over
50,000 men and women, service people who lost their lives in Vietnam.

BOLLING: Very good. Very good. Awesome one, Bob.

Very quickly, we told you yesterday about Alec Baldwin's accused stalker, Genevieve Sabourin, in court yesterday. She was nailed for 30 days for contempt of court. Here's Alec Baldwin coming out of court yesterday. Watch.


ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: I hope you choke to death.


BOLLING: I hope you choke to death. What a great guy.

That's all we have time for you guys. Thanks for watching. See you tomorrow.

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