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The Five

White House blames healthcare.gov for low enrollment numbers

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 1, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Andrea Tantaros, along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City -- and this is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE, NBC)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Millions of Americans are visiting healthcare.gov, which is great news. Unfortunately, the site was only designed to handle six users at a time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: Who would have guessed that "Saturday Night Live" was so prophetic?

But as "CBS Evening News" first reported last night, they were right on the mark.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, CBS EVENING NEWS)

REPORTER: The Web site launched on Tuesday. Publicly, the government said there were 4.7 million unique visits in the first 24 hours. But at a meeting Wednesday morning, the war room notes say "6 enrollments have occurred so far."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: Six enrollees out of 4.7 million visits? Let's see, that's an impressive hit rate of 0.000001 percent.

These embarrassing results might explain why the White House said all along that they didn't have the numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, we don't have -- 24 hours, we don't have that data. We're not going to have that data on a daily or hourly basis for you.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I don't have the numbers yet.

JON STEWART, COMEDY CENTRAL: How many have signed up thus far?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: Fully enrolled?

STEWART: Yes.

SEBELIUS: I can't tell you because I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

TANTAROS: OK, Greg, they still don't know and they aren't projected to know any time soon.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yes, six people. There are more bodies in Beckel's bed right now than that.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: This is the --

TANTAROS: Ew.

GUTFELD: -- the upside, it's the only number Piers Morgan beats in the demo.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Thought I'd get a Piers Morgan jab in.

No, it's incredible. It's amazing. It's almost as though you can't be this incompetent by accident. It's like there's a secret Olympic event among bureaucrats to see how bad they can be, how much money they can spend to do the very worst thing, because nobody does this by accident. This is like incredible. It's almost like inspiring how awful they are.

TANTAROS: Dana, how could this happen? Because you look back at President Obama, the first digital president, how well he ran his campaign. Do you actually think David Axelrod would have let only six people per day donate to Obama's re-election? I doubt that.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Or if they would have admitted it. But when you're governing, it's different. So, if the president wants an answer to something like how many people enrolled on ObamaCare, that is an answer that the president of the United States could get, if they wanted to.

I'm surprise -- well, I'm surprise with the number. It is obviously low. I'd love to imagine the scene of what it would be like to go in on Wednesday morning in the Oval Office for the meeting with the president and have to have to him only six people signed up for ObamaCare. That would have been a very embarrassing moment.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: And they had to know. They know exactly what the number was, day one, day two. By the way, if you have six per day in order to get to the 7 million you need, it's 28,417 years.

No wonder they're holding back the number. Even if the number's 6,000, 60,000 when they finally release them mid-November. It doesn't matter. The system can't -- it will never be where they needed to be in March.

They have to, right now, probably should do it sooner rather than later, say, we're going to delay this. Either delay the individual mandate or delay being penalized for not having insurance. One of the two has to happen, sooner rather than later.

TANTAROS: Juan, they're going to have to do one of the two. What do you think they're going to do, if anything? How do you think the White House is going to message not just the continued decline in enrollment, or I should say, no increase whatsoever? But what about the people that are losing their health care? How are they going to continue to spin this as the numbers grow?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, gee, I hate to get into the midst of this tangle on the grave of ObamaCare, but gee whiz, I don't think there's anything so shocking. You like this? I think you all for this --

TANTAROS: I don't like people losing their health care.

WILLIAMS: Nobody is losing their health care. But I'm just telling you, this business about there are only six enrollees? Well, gee, the whole rollout was botched. The computer's not working so well. You get 4 million people?

PERINO: Why don't they just admit it then? Why do they lie?

WILLIAMS: Well, fine. Oh, gee, guess what, politics. They felt it was embarrassing. OK. But I'm just telling, this is premature dancing on the grave.

BOLLING: This is why it matters, they have six enrollees day one. They had three years to get this up and running. Here's the system that's going to handled -- forget one-sixth of the economy, $3 trillion. It's going to handle our health insurance, our health care --

WILLIAMS: Now, we come to the real story -- you don't want it at all.

BOLLING: No, because I'm worried that --

WILLIAMS: You don't want any part of ObamaCare.

BOLLING: As successful as the DMV, the Post Office, green energy and Amtrak have been --

WILLIAMS: There we go, oh, yes.

BOLLING: -- that's what we're going to end up with, with ObamaCare.

WILLIAMS: You know what? Why don't you make -- here's your argument. I'll play Eric Bolling. Eric Bolling says, government's too big, too many people on entitlements, too many giveaways.

Let me play Mitt Romney. And that 47 percent, they're terrible people, a bunch of bums --

TANTAROS: Juan, really, a Romney throwback?

WILLIAMS: Oh, my -- that's what this is about.

TANTAROS: I know you're in a tough position.

WILLIAMS: What position?

TANTAROS: You're in a tough position having to defend ObamaCare.

WILLIAMS: I'm not defending. I'm just telling the truth.

TANTAROS: Greg --

WILLIAMS: Most Americans want ObamaCare to work. They think Republicans should stop harassing the guy. And it's imploding --

TANTAROS: Wait a minute, hold on a second.

WILLIAMS: -- arguably imploding on its own.

TANTAROS: Hold on a second, why should we stop harassing the White House? They were intentional deceitful, Greg, on if you could keep your doctor, you'll be able. They were intentional deceitful with premiums not going up. Now, more people are enrolling in Medicaid, which we at this table are going to be paying for, and everybody watching. So, why shouldn't we be able to give the White House a hard time?

GUTFELD: No, absolutely, especially when you're right.

You know, Democratic Senator Max Baucus compared ObamaCare to Humpty Dumpty. It's more like a humpty dump.

The best argument against big government is big government. That's why it's important that you can't just talk about the Web site, because the Web site is part of this mountain of misery with ObamaCare, there were the cancellations, the part time workers, the sticker shock, the employer mandate.

The only thing that worked was Obama's golf swing. So, once the Web site gets fixed, which it probably will, the media -- the media's going to say, everything's fine. That's where it starts. That's where you have -- the Republicans have to start saying, no, it's not just about the Web site. The Web site was 1 of 17 problems.

TANTAROS: Hold on, you brought up Max Baucus. Can I play max actually doing that nursery rhyme?

Hit it, Max.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: Let's just see how much this can be put together. How much Humpty Dumpty can be fixed in the next month, and if it looks like Humpty Dumpty's not getting back together, maybe we should start thinking about delaying the penalties.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TANTAROS: And what was it, Eric, and all the king's horses and all the king's men --

BOLLING: And all the liberals in D.C. couldn't put back together again.

Greg is right, as soon as they fix the Web site, the other shoe, it's a big shoe. Is that banned?

GUTFELD: I haven't banned it yet, it's tiny shoes.

BOLLING: Until the E-block, because the other shoe to drop is when we realize that 90 percent or 95 percent of the people who are logging on, who are enrolling, are enrolling for Medicaid, not for ObamaCare. When they realize that, all that Medicaid, when you're enrolled on Medicaid, it's taking money out the system, not putting it in. Enrolling it in ObamaCare is putting money in the system.

So, 95 percent are going to be taking out one, Juan. This thing is doomed for failure.

WILLIAMS: I'm glad you feel that way. Let me just say that, in fact, those people are eligible. They could have signed on any time to Medicaid.

BOLLING: Right.

WILLIAMS: But the reason they signed on now is because of the higher profile and the promise that ObamaCare gives to Americans of all stripes and says, you know what, people should have --

BOLLING: Can I just clarify why they're signing up for Medicaid?

Here's why. You go to the Web site. You can either sign up for Medicaid or enroll in ObamaCare and pay out of my own pocket and hope the government pays me back. It subsidizes it through my taxes.

So, what am I going to do? No, I'm going to let you pay for it because I'm guaranteed to get it this way.

WILLIAMS: You have to be eligible. You can't lie.

TANTAROS: So, what did they do, Juan? They took away the requirement to have --

WILLIAMS: You have to be -- if you're eligible or not eligible.

TANTAROS: Juan, they took away the requirement to have a child. That's how you used to be eligible for Medicaid. Now, anyone can get it.

And, Eric's right, it costs nothing. That's why in states that you're eligible that took that Medicaid money, millions are going to be enrolling and we're on the hook.

Dana, Jay Carney took the podium. And he also said the reason for all of this, the reason for six enrollees, is solely because of the Web site. Here's Carney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARNEY: Let me just tell you now, on November 1st, we don't expect those numbers to be very high. We never did. They're going to be even lower because of the challenges we had with the Web site.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: That's interesting, that he says that they never did know that because earlier in the week, the answer was the president had no idea that the Web site was not going to work. So they constantly try to have it both ways and that's annoying.

I am surprised the experts seemed so surprised about consumer behavior. If you can't get on to the Web site you're not going to be able to shop around, as the president said, just go and shop around. Well, that's not working. Plus, when you go on, if you decide, Juan, if you choose to lo look at the subsidies, you could get a generous subsidy.

However, consumer behavior is one of, I don't want the hassle, I'm just going to sign up for Medicaid. It might be a less generous subsidy that what you can get after the hassle. But that's what people do.

And once you get on Medicaid, which is substandard, it is not a good enough health care system for what I want for people in America. Once you get on Medicaid, you think they're going to change? They're going to switch back and go on ObamaCare and start paying a premium and deductible? I doubt that they will. That's -- to me, that means health care gets worse in America, it doesn't get better under ObamaCare.

TANTAROS: And more costly to federal budgets and state budgets.

GUTFELD: The weird thing too is that the firm that has been hired to repair the site is the firm that was hired to build the site. That's like hiring the captain of the Costa Concordia to rescue the shipwrecked passengers.

Also, when will the media vindicate and apologize to the Tea Party who were the very first people on the spot to call this a nightmare years ago? They were the Paul Revere of this disaster, and they've been mocked for the last I don't know how many years for basically saying, look, this thick is a boondoggle. And instead -- they were mocked by everybody in the media.

WILLIAMS: Wait a minute, wait.

TANTAROS: Do you want to apologize to the Tea Party, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Let me just get this straight. Let me get this straight. Get out here.

Let me get this straight. You mean I hear from Dana, Dana says, you know what, I want a health care system that works for more Americans. I think, in fact, Dana makes a legitimate point. Why I don't register for Medicaid? Because, in fact, you're going to get better coverage under ObamaCare.

But then I hear, wait a minute, we don't want anything. We don't want anything from you, Greg.

GUTFELD: You're probably right. I'm a free market guy. I don't like any government intrusion at all, because when I look at all the areas where government has intruded, whether it's retirement or education or health care, it's been an abject failure. I like the free market.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The military, Social Security, Medicare, terrible.

GUTFELD: Medicare is terrible. Social Security --

WILLIAMS: Oh, Social Security is terrible?

GUTFELD: Yes, it's going bankrupt.

WILLIAMS: Call your mother. Call your mother right now, Gregory.

GUTFELD: I will.

TANTAROS: Eric --

WILLIAMS: She hates Social Security? The only mama in America that hates Social Security.

GUTFELD: But it's going bankrupt. After the military, you brought up the military.

WILLIAMS: Everything stinks.

GUTFELD: No, the military's run separately from this horrid bureaucracy.

They have standards. And the achievement is measured in the military. If you're not good in the military, you're out.

Not so in government. You fail in government, you stay in it and go up.

TANTAROS: Can we quickly have a "you know it's bad when" moment before we go? And, Eric, you can react, and, Dana, you know it's bad when former President Jimmy Carter criticizes you. Listen.

Oh, "His major accomplishment was ObamaCare and the implementation of it now is questionable at best."

Eric, what do you say when Jimmy Carter is criticizing?

BOLLING: I don't care. I don't care about Jimmy Carter. I care about what Juan just said. We don't want a system. We have the perfect system.

Here it is. What we had in place before ObamaCare allowed people to buy -- you want health care exchanges? Knock yourself out. Make health care exchanges. But allow someone in Colorado to buy health care from a company in New Jersey who wants to offer it at a more competitive price. Drop those borders, drop those regulations, and you have the system you had before with prices going down, and that's the one that would work.

WILLIAMS: I'm all for the exchanges. You said exchanges, right?

BOLLING: With free market.

WILLIAMS: Yes, OK. I'm telling you, guess what? First, the Republicans in the Congress say, have the states in charge of the exchanges. The Republican governors say, we're not doing it.

BOLLING: Because you can't -- Aetna of New Jersey has the lowest price. You can't buy did in Colorado or Hawaii, you're not allowed to. That's the problem.

WILLIAMS: Right, because they don't want -- they want consumer protections. They don't want one company to dominate all over the country. They will be a race to the bottom. I'm serious.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: Dana, quickly, do you think the White House is going to have to make changes or change something besides the Web site?

PERINO: Probably, but I think when they do, the media will just let it blow by. I think Jimmy Carter's criticism was actually for Jimmy Carter, it was actually very mild. And, you know, he was trying to be kind. He was just stating the facts.

What he said was nothing the White House hasn't said about his own program.

WILLIAMS: It's nothing that hasn't been said.

PERINO: I have to say, for as important as you think education is in America and for as screwed up you think what they have done to federal education policy across the board, why do you think the same thing is going to happen in health care?

Why do you have faith in the government being able to --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Oh, no.

PERINO: -- when they screwed up education so much.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no, I'm a cynic. When I look at the insurance company, I say, oh, my gosh, look at all the people who don't have insurance and adequate insurance.

PERINO: What do you think is more insidious, the unions or the insurance companies?

WILLIAMS: For education, the unions are insidious. I think they've been hurting the quality of education.

But you're telling, oh, what the insurance companies are doing, it's A-OK? Come on, you know, Dana. You know that's not fair --

TANTAROS: We've got to go --

GUTFELD: Are you guys sure that ObamaCare, is it really like a jackass stunt and Obama's being played by Johnny Knoxville?

TANTAROS: I wish, but there is a jackass.

GUTFELD: Really, you think so?

WILLIAMS: Johnny Knoxville?

TANTAROS: We got to go.

Next on "The Five": is it true that Joe Biden almost get knocked off the president's ticket in 2012 for Hillary? We've got that scoop on that reelection rumor and a bunch of others coming right up.

But before we go, please check out our Facebook page at Facebook.com/TheFiveFNC.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Joshua, we've got to talk over the weekend about the song choice.

OK. Lots of buzz today about revelations in a new book, on the 2012 election. It's called "Double Down" by journalist Mark Halperin and John Heilemann. These are the same guys who wrote "Game Changer", which was a big hit.

One of the claims is that the president's campaign was debating knocking Joe Biden off the ticket and replacing him with Hillary Clinton. Two to the president's top guns are saying that that is true. David Plouffe tweeted last night, "It wasn't even in consideration."

And Jay Carney said this today --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARNEY: I know for a fact that President Obama never considered this, never thought about it, never entertained it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: But Obama's chief of staff during the election said a swap was considered.

Here's Bill Daley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DALEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: It was looked at but it was never seriously looked at in a sense that there was a belief that it ought to be done. 2011, as you remember, Norah, it was a very difficult political year. And so, my sense was, we ought to look at everything here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I wonder if Bill Daley took a look at any of these clips of Joe Biden's greatest hits. Let's take a look at my favorite Joe Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Three-letter word, jobs. J-O-B-S, jobs.

This is a big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.

God rest her soul and although she's -- wait, your mom's -- your mom's still alive. Your dad passed.

I promise you, the president has a big stick. I promise you.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

PERINO: Believe me. Now, I love Joe Biden.

Juan, not unusual for a presidential re-election campaign to take a look at the vice presidential candidates. And there's always these rumors. You think there's any truth to this, any serious consideration of this?

WILLIAMS: No, I think the story would have leaked a lot bigger than this now in this book.

But I think I will say is I do believe that Bill Daley's right, that someone like Bill Daley might have thought, you know, we're not doing so well. They were not doing well in that juncture. And Bill Daley probably thought, who can we get, and guess what, we know somebody who's very popular with women and independents. Her name is Hillary Clinton.

PERINO: Do you think Hillary would have considered it? Do you think she would have wanted to say no and go for a run herself?

TANTAROS: Yes. Probably would not have wanted to be the vice president, I would think. If you read Ed Klein's book, "The Amateur" or you talk to Ed Klein, who's fascinating. It's a great book, he talks about the behind the scenes relationship between the Clintons and the Obamas.

I think Daley has the best scenario, which is, it was considered. Unemployment was high. It was a rough situation. But the reason why, I think it was considered was because the same way reason they considered her to be the secretary of state, friends close, enemies closer. And one of these things in the book that they say is if there was concern in the White House about Joe Biden and his political aspirations, not just that he was gaffe-prone.

I think there is deep concern today in the White House, not just about what Biden will do and say, but what Hillary will do and say, when they both decide to run. Will they turn on Obama?

PERINO: Did you have a look at any of this today?

GUTFELD: Yes. It wasn't Hillary Clinton. It was Hilary duff.

PERINO: That's why it says Hillary.

GUTFELD: How do we know Biden hasn't been replaced? Has anyone seen him? I think he made my sandwich at Quiznos. I guess the book -- there's so many things about this book that bugs me. It underlines how much the media has been willing to overlook that's been going.

The media is basically Obama's Maybelline. It covers every flaw. When you're writing a book and big stuff happens that could change the world, aren't you obliged to kind of -- this will be great for my book. Well, maybe it would be great for the country if you reported it first.

WILLIAMS: Yes. You know, that was a problem for Bob Woodward at "The Washington Post," people were saying, hey, why are you saving it for your book? I thought you work here.

PERINO: You love politics. What do you think of this?

BOLLING: I just don't know what's there's no there there.

You know, so Bill Daley says that they thought about replacing Biden because at the time he was -- he was gaffe prone. He changed and all --

WILLIAMS: You said he was. You're being kind to him?

BOLLING: No, no, I'm saying --

WILLIAMS: He still is gaffe prone. What are you talking about?

BOLLING: OK, so he still is. But where's the there? So, they talked about it and said let's keep him because we'll look bad, we'll look weak if we replaced him.

PERINO: I think President Obama has thought that Vice President Biden has been a very good vice president.

There was another vice presidential story that comes out of this book and it's about somebody who is possibly relevant in 2016, has an election next week. That's Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey.

Andrea, in this book the questions were raised of whether or not the Romney campaign got scared off when they were looking at any of the some of the background stuff.

TANTAROS: And they where concerned about his weight and his health and his fitness. But this is what troubled me, Dana, if it's true -- this book says Chris Christie didn't want Republicans, Mitt Romney, mainly, campaigning in his home state and fundraising in his home state of New Jersey, which I thought was very strange and not a good sign to party insiders if you don't --

PERINO: That's nothing that I heard before.

TANTAROS: Right. Also, this name game that they played, this fish name game, where they had nicknames for each of the contenders. Marco Rubio being Pescado, I just think it makes Christie's advisers look really childish. I mean, Romney's I should say.

BOLLING: I'm calling B.S. on this book. They were, they were this far from reality on "Game Change." I mean, if you listen to Sarah Palin and whatnot, they were terrible. They weren't accurate. It's entertaining but it wasn't accurate.

I'm going to say there's nothing here. Why are we listening to Heilemann and --

PERINO: Halperin.

BOLLING: And Halperin. I think they're just trying to sell a few books, get on "Morning Joe" and pat themselves on the back.

GUTFELD: What is "Morning Joe," something in the morning? Is it about coffee? Oh, OK, that's interesting.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Yes. In college, it was sex act actually.

You know, if you want to figure out who leaked the information for a book, this is such an easy thing, find out in the leaks who is described well. Dan Pfeiffer is described as whip smart in the book, acerbic. Gee, I wonder why? Because he provided all the information. If you ever want to find the leaker, find out who has been complimented --

PERINO: He's also quoted as saying he wrote a memo to President Obama, I can't find it here, but I can summarize it, where he basically says, sir, we're going to portray you his a reasonable person because you can't please both David Brooks and Paul Krugman, so we just have to choose. Why not just go with the best policy?

WILLIAMS: What about this rumor about Mormon this feud between Harry Reid and Mitt Romney? Why don't you mention that story?

PERINO: OK. You like this one?

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know if I like it.

PERINO: One of the rumors is remember when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid suggested Mitt Romney hadn't paid his income taxes. Everybody wondered where in the world did he get that? This book reports that it was none other than Jon Huntsman who was also from Utah, former governor of Utah. And he said this book says he told Harry Reid that.

Now, the Huntsman people are disputing that today.

BOLLING: So far, nothing in the book is --

TANTAROS: No, but what are they going to say, yes, I did it? I think there's some -- I don't know, maybe I'm just a geek and --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I've got to tell you, there's nothing sexier than a Mormon feud.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: That's why I thought we had to let people know that THE FIVE is on top of it. We've got it covered.

PERINO: We do. And next, we're going to talk about model Heidi Klum, who is known for her stunning good looks and she's also known for her great Halloween costumes. This year, she did not disappoint at her annual bash. And Juan has the spooky pictures, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: All right. Some foreign researchers published a study saying that owning a gun makes you racist. Before I debunk this crap, let's see why they did this study.

Researcher Kerry O'Brien tells "The Daily News," quote, "There have already been research showing that blacks are more likely to be shot, so we thought there must be something happening between the concept of being black and some whites wanting guns."

Idiotic. Somehow Kerry manages not to finish his thought. Blacks are more likely to be shot by other blacks. Over 91 percent of blacks are murdered by other blacks, and 84 percent of whites are murdered by other whites. So even the premise is false.

So I e-mailed gun expert John Lott on the study and he found the racist findings were the same for both white and nonwhite. How can that be? This is nonsense. No wonder the researchers hid that part. Finally, legal gun ownership benefits blacks more than anyone. As Lott points out, poor blacks in high crime areas are more likely to be crime victims. They need guns.

And left wing efforts to impose large fees on gun ownership have resulted in hefty price tags to register unlicensed guns in cities like D.C. or Chicago, making guns a luxury for the rich and the white. So, who's racist now?

If there's anything worse than bad science, it's really bad science. And you make bad science by using your academic perch t push political ideology and bigoted stereotypes. But what do you expect from these guys? They're probably in the KKK.

Yes, whatever.

BOLLING: You know, that was a very, very good monologue.

GUTFELD: Oh, thank you. You say that it's like surprising.

BOLLING: It was so good. What else? You're right. There's no even arguing with that.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. What said he was right? On the big points, you were right. By the way, I'm so flat to hear you guys agreeing that black people are most likely to kill black people. White people are more likely to kill white people.

PERINO: We always do that.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no, let me tell you, Dana, sometimes --

PERINO: On this show, we have facts.

WILLIAMS: Oh, gosh, we got to worry about these black people, they're very scary.

PERINO: Who said that on this show?

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Juan.

WILLIAMS: I know, I know.

TANTAROS: Who said that?

WILLIAMS: You shouldn't have told my wife that.

Anyway, anyway, this business about who's most likely to own a gun, according to all opposed, it is a white man in America, even a white Southern man.

BOLLING: Most likely, more whites own guns --

PERINO: Legally own guns.

WILLIAMS: Most likely. Highest percentage of gun ownership.

GUTFELD: All right, could the --

BOLLING: But that's -- so?

WILLIAMS: So what?

BOLLING: But you're making -- you're not making a point.

GUTFELD: Correlation. It's a correlation.

BOLLING: There's more white people in the country --

WILLIAMS: No, of course, but if you were just saying percentage, what percentage of this group? What percentage of that group? It doesn't matter.

GUTFELD: Can I make two points here though? If you're talking about the South, they're probably white people living in desolate areas who have to have a gun because the police take a long time to get out there. If you own a farm, 200 acres, you'd better have a gun. That could be a better explanation than just saying, oh, they're racist. That's the problem.

PERINO: That would be way too complicated for somebody in Australia to work on.

GUTFELD: I believe they're more metropolitan areas in places like England. So, they don't have this -- they don't have this with people out in the woods with guns.

TANTAROS: But it sounds like they had their theory, right?

And you can conduct the study to show whatever you wanted to show. And it's evident right here, right? He says, it's noteworthy, the symbolic racism. I guess that means if you own a gun, guns equal racist. If you have a gun, you're racist.

These guns are in the presence of, ooh, look, Greg, conservative ideologies, political affiliation, opposition to government control, oh, and being from the South. I mean, this is someone who's the most racist of all and he said, sitting in their cubicle saying, how can we conduct a study that show that people who own guns are right wing big racists?

PERINO: Besides, he's from the further South.

GUTFELD: That's true, Australia.

WILLIAMS: I just have one point before we go, which is to say that, so you want me to get a gun because I live in a black neighborhood in Washington, D.C., and I'm just telling you, the biggest danger would be that I'd shoot my old lady. That's what the biggest danger. Or she'd shoot me.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: You know, I don't believe that because you would take -- you're a responsible citizen so you would take firearm lessons. You'd become an excellent marksman. You go shooting at the range and you would enjoy it immensely.

WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you, Gregory.

GUTFELD: It's a nice stress release. It's the male version of knitting.

I don't know. Why am I even talking at this point?

An NFL player walks away from the Miami Dolphins which is a team, not an actual group of dolphins, after reports were bullied -- he was bullied by his teammates. Jonathan Martin was a no show at the game last night against the Bengals. But made the offensive tackle snap -- I should read this first.

BOLLING: He's a nice guy.

GUTFELD: He's a nice guy.

PERINO: It's a school of dolphins.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Well, last night, Miami Dolphins starting offensive lineman Jonathan Martin sat out the game. The reason, he was being bullied. When I first heard the story, my immediate reaction was, wow, more wussification of American me, the NFL style. But the details tell a completely different story.

Jonathan Martin was being hazed by his teammates and hazed bad. He was nicknamed Big Weirdo. When he sits down at the table of fellow players in the cafeteria, they all ceremoniously get up and move to a different table, leaving Martin to sit alone.

I'd say folks, locker rooms and team cafeterias are tough places. Shenanigans are the norm all the time. But after months and months of this, it should stop.

I will tell you, I'd be the guy to stand up and clock those SOBs. The young man was pushed to the brink. He's off the team right now.

The team needs some serious butt kicking. Coach Philbin, get your team together. It's 0-14.

So, you read it and you're like, man up, Martin. But he's being hazed.

PERINO: I felt terrible for him. You know, I felt bad for Sebelius at the hearings. So, of course, I'm going to feel bad for him. I don't understand, like, the immature behavior at the cafeteria is incredible. I mean, you should see what Greg does to me in the hallway.

GUTFELD: I read this story. I don't know any -- I don't know enough to make an opinion on this. I know that the media has a huge obsession with bullying stories. When the media grabs a story like this, I always know it's exaggerated and it's overplayed. And I do believe this story -- there's another side to this story.

Study suggests that bullies has remained constant and very few teens are impacted by bullying. Although the stories that are tragic are played out more. I think there's something else going on here with a personality issue that we don't know about.

BOLLING: Perhaps. But you know what's interesting -- 6'5", 315 pounds and he can still be bullied.

TANTAROS: Well, that's why I'm a little bit skeptical. I mean, he's an offensive lineman. As you mentioned, 6'5". He's the bully on the field.

So I find it hard to believe all a sudden he's a shrinking violet in the locker room. I agree with Greg. I think there's more to the story. Even Martin took to his Facebook page. He said happy Halloween. Don't believe everything you read.

Teammates who seem to be supportive of him say, look, he has personal issues that he's going through. Maybe he just snapped. I just think talking to former NFL players, they say this is really, really rare.

I mean, they razz each other. But this kind of stuff -- I'm skeptical.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say something. The fact he's 6'5", 315, that's nothing to do with it. You could be mentally weak and a giant.

TANTAROS: Maybe he's mentally weak, too mentally weak ton play in the NFL, I don't know. I don't think any of this --

WILLIAMS: But he made the team, right?

BOLLING: Not only he made the team, he started every one of the 23 games he's been on the team. He was a second round draft choice. He's a good football player.

TANTAROS: That's my point. You have to have such mental strength to play that game and to be able to play at the highest level. That's why I'm just not buying all of a sudden this guy who has this fortitude on the field is, like, I'm being bullied.

PERINO: I totally believe it. People that have the bravado, and the biggest egos in the world, and actually, inside they're like a crumpled mess.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I agree.

GUTFELD: Is that directed at me?

TANTAROS: She looked right at you.

GUTFELD: Can I just say something a lot of people don't say? I was bullied, but I also was a bully. Everybody was a bully. Everybody's been bullied. That's the nature of life.

WILLIAMS: You know what --

PERINO: -- the biggest bully --

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, nobody bullied (ph) but unless I come here. But let me just say, I know, Eric actually played pro sports. I think people get bullied all the time, but you rise above it. You move beyond it.

I think, maybe you're right, something else is going on in this story.

PERINO: If he does need help, I hope they are trying to reach out.

BOLLING: Look, it's got to be bad. The guy walked. He said, I can't do this anymore. He's a starting NFL lineman, offensive lineman. We've got to leave it here.

Still ahead, "The Associated Press" slams the self-proclaimed, most transparent administration in history from blocking its photographer from the White House. Why? So it can put out staged propaganda photos like this one instead. We're going to tell you all about that, next.

But before we go, Shep has an update on the shooting at LAX from the FOX News deck.

Shep, what's up?

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Welcome back.

"The Associated Press" has taken a lot of pictures of President Obama outside the White House, but they don't get much access inside the Oval Office. "The A.P.'s" director of photography, Santiago Lyons, says his agency has only been allowed to photograph the president twice in his office. Instead, the administration relies on pictures taken by its own photographer, pictures that Lyon says amount to propaganda.

Let's look at some of these pictures.

Andrea, take a look.

TANTAROS: OK. Well, this isn't an official photo by "The Associated Press". This is a photo taken outside.

But remember this infamous photo with President Obama trying to convince the public at the time that doctors in the United States supported ObamaCare. Well, of course, these doctors didn't show up in lab coats so they very graciously handed them a lab coat and staged a photo op to make it seem like, yes, doctors love this.

Well, of course, as we talked about earlier on "The Five", 40 percent of doctors are now even deciding if they even want to participate in the exchanges.

So, a lot of politicians staged. I've staged press conferences when I was press secretary.

WILLIAMS: No, you?

TANTAROS: Yes, I have, I have. But it seems like they do it a little bit more in this White House.

WILLIAMS: Dana, you're a pro at photography.

PERINO: I think the photo journalists never get enough credit for being the journalists that they are. They capture moments. They help us recognize history for all our lives.

And they're easy going guys. President Bush 41 used to call them the photo dogs. Let them in. And it's the easiest thing you can do as press secretary. It's like, let the photogs in. It takes 30 seconds.

President Obama never takes a bad picture. So, I think that they should let them. I understand why "The A.P." is complaining. My favorite staged photo was this one of Bush. I believe it was Karen Hughes who gave him Bernie Goldberg's book about media bias. It's called "Bias", and as he walked out to Marine One, he held it just perfectly so that everybody could get a picture of it.

GUTFELD: Cool.

WILLIAMS: Greg, you like any of these pictures?

GUTFELD: No, I thought long and favorite about the picture I thought best reflected who I thought President Obama, you know, was in spirit and I came up with this one.

Oh. Sorry, I made a mistake. I made a mistake.

Can we get the actual picture? There you go.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: That's Karl Marx. Yes.

WILLIAMS: Well, look. Now I come to the big man, Mr. Photographer himself.

BOLLING: No, but Dana said President Obama doesn't take a bad picture. I have a couple unofficial photos which are actually of President Obama. Take a look at the first one.

Remember this one?

PERINO: Oh, yes.

TANTAROS: Mom jeans.

BOLLING: I got another one. Next one. There he is with the mom jeans, throwing like a girl.

WILLIAMS: Ooh. Ooh.

BOLLING: Those are both "A.P." photos, though.

WILLIAMS: You know, I mean, there's a larger point here. There's too little access to President Obama. I mean, they protect this guy like he was somehow going to explode if he gets actual -- and it's not only the press, because Dana is right. Most times, the photos help the politicians.

But this is a larger complaint about --

PERINO: Access.

WILLIAMS: The Congress. The Congress says they never see the guy. The response that comes back from the White House is, looking he's got two young children, he wants to spend time, have dinner, go to their soccer games.

Dude, you're the president. You've got to do the job. You've got to play the game. That's the only way you're going to get these things done. You've got to make the sacrifice.

GUTFELD: He should do a selfie like Geraldo?

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: What?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Don't listen to him. Don't listen to this guy.

PERINO: Must be brilliant, actually.

BOLLING: This is crazy. Can you put up the first picture you put up in the Oval Office with Biden over there on the side? Can you scroll back to that? Is that possible to do? Can we?

WILLIAMS: Maybe not. There it is.

BOLLING: They staged that, right? So help me out.

PERINO: I don't think they staged it, said Mr. President --

BOLLING: Put your left leg up. Joe, look like you're busy. Do something, pretend you're talking.

And, Mr. President, point your finger because it looks like --

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: We've already seen as much as Geraldo and President Obama. I mean, remember, President Obama showed us his abs. He was half naked in that Martha's Vineyard picture.

WILLIAMS: All right, all right, right. Look, look, look, at least it didn't have "mission accomplished" behind it.

"One More Thing" --

PERINO: Oh my, you can't do that. You're a bad guest.

GUTFELD: You're a bad guest?

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TANTAROS: It's that magical time. "One More Thing".

Dana, kick it off.

PERINO: OK, so I am having a Beckel moment. I said Governor Jon Huntsman was behind the leaks to Senator Harry Reid about Mitt Romney's taxes during the 2012 campaign. It was actually -- the rumor in the book is that it was Jon Huntsman, Sr., the former governor's father. Both of those things have been debunked by the family. Who knows who's right?

So, I apologize for that. I apologize to my producer for making fun of his song choices all week.

TANTAROS: That was very Beckel of you.

PERINO: Very Bob-ish, although it was sincere.

TANTAROS: Greg?

GUTFELD: I haven't banned a phrase in a while, so let's ban this one: debacle.

I mean, so many other words we can use: great disaster, catastrophe, calamity, complete failure, fiasco, and my favorite, Obama. Oh, that's an Obama. Whew, check out that Obama.

PERINO: You just got Obamaed. You're an Obama.

GUTFELD: Bork became a verb.

PERINO: It's true. I like it. You could start something right here.

GUTFELD: All right. Quiet.

TANTAROS: Eric.

BOLLING: OK, hosting O'Reilly tonight, but "CASHIN' IN" tomorrow morning for a big interview with Glenn Greenwald. He takes a shot at President Obama. I asked him if President Obama regarding the NSA was uninformed or misinformed. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: The question is, do you think President Obama was misinformed or uninformed?

GLENN GREENWALD, JOURNALIST: No, I think neither. I think he was informed but chose to tell the public things that he knew to be false.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And then we go on and on, 11:30 tomorrow morning "CASHIN' IN".

TANTAROS: "CASHIN' IN". Your turn, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's the day after. The day after Halloween. And we have to pick a winner for best costume, and the winner is -- Heidi Klum, 40-year-old Heidi Klum - -

PERINO: Wow.

WILLIAMS: -- looking like a 100-year-old unbelievable, because she is gorgeous. Of course, I think she's a gorgeous 100-year-old woman. That's unbelievable.

GUTFELD: Juan, you're allowing her to walk around in old face.

WILLIAMS: What's wrong with that? What are you upset with?

PERINO: Age-ist.

WILLIAMS: I must tell you, though, my granddaughters, my 1-year-old granddaughters were dressed at cat and mouse at pumpkin picking over the weekend. So I think actually maybe they're better looking than Heidi Klum.

TANTAROS: Do you have a picture?

WILLIAMS: No, I didn't bring a picture.

PERINO: If you followed Rafi Williams (ph) on Twitter --

WILLIAMS: You could do it. There you go.

TANTAROS: We'll have Juan tweet a picture out.

OK. I rarely plead the audience for anything, but I'm going to do it today. I'm going to beg guys to do something. Please, if you know someone who lives in New York or "The Five" boroughs, have them please check out this man, John Lhota, who was running for mayor. Election Day is on Tuesday.

He is a former deputy mayor under Rudy Giuliani. He's fantastic, and he would make a great mayor. Call them up, tell them to get out, tell them to get our and vote for Joe. He's running against this man named Bill de Blasio, who you've heard Greg warned you about. He is this European socialist. He's going to throw New York City back into the doldrums, make it unsafe.

To live here, and all the experiments they try here in New York City, this is where they copy them and they put them in your town. So, this is why it's important.

PERINO: You know the best thing about next Wednesday. These commercials will be off the air.

TANTAROS: That's it for us at "The Five." Thanks for watching, everybody. Have a great weekend, everyone.

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