What was the president really saying in his ObamaCare speech?

Dr. Ben Carson, Scott Brown speak out


This is a rush transcript from "Your World," October 30, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, HOST: We have got Dr. Ben Carson joining us right now.

Dr. Carson, what do you think?

DR. BEN CARSON, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: Well, I think the president is an excellent campaigner. And he certainly knows how to paint a picture that's very rosy and to neglect all the problematic parts.

You know, I would simply say that, if the plan is so good, why force everybody into it? You know, think about many years ago, when automobiles first came out. A lot of people were very opposed to automobiles, and they said, I will stick with my horse any day.

But, you know, the government didn't come along and say, everybody has to buy an automobile. They just allowed things to happen. People did eventually say, yes, you know, automobiles are pretty cool, and they kept improving.

Why do you have to force people to do something if in fact it is so good? So, these are things that we have to think about. I think our Founding Fathers would be horrified if they came back and they saw a situation where the government says to individual citizens, you have to do this. You have to use your money and you have to do this. This is certainly not, you know, what was intended in a free state.

And he did -- to his credit, he said, we have fundamental differences. You know, he, obviously, believes in big government taking care of problems. There are a lot of Americans who actually believe in individualism, who believe in responsibility.

It doesn't mean that those people don't care about anybody else, you know? In fact, you know, America has a history of being the most generous nation in the world. And the richest people here who were criticized by the Europeans, instead of hoarding money, you know, built the infrastructure that allowed us to develop the most powerful middle class in the world.

They built universities. They built foundations. They built the infrastructure of the nation. You know, this -- America is different. And let's not allow ourselves to be cast in the mold of other types of countries which I don't think are exceptional, as we are.

CAVUTO: And, by the way, if you have problems with this law, it's not because you're not a patriot or you don't want to cover those with preexisting conditions or you don't want kids on policies longer or whatever.

The fact of the matter is that it's the way this is being dispensed and the way it's rolling out and the costly nature of it and the fact that people have been promised that they could keep their doctor, now they can't keep their doctor, they can keep their coverage, now they can't keep their coverage.

I guess what I was itching to hear, Doctor, is the president say, we - - we -- we got that one wrong. I don't expect him to say we lied about that. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. He didn't know that would be the case.

But when Steny Hoyer only yesterday, the number two ranking Democrat in the House, was saying, you know, truth be known, we did know some people would lose their coverage, and then you say, well, you never lose your coverage because you're transitioning to something else, truth be known that that transitioning was going to result in a much higher premium Americans were going to have to pay.

I was waiting for that moment, that we didn't quite spill all the beans to you in order to sell this. We didn't tell you...

CARSON: Well, what...


CAVUTO: ... that it would just be a few Americans who would be paying more, and more than a few Americans who would be losing their doctors, you know?

CARSON: Well, what -- what's interesting is, you know, we're talking about the glitches in the rollout right now.

But I guarantee you, in a few months, it will be something else, and then it will be something else. I mean, just think about it logically. If they're having this much trouble, having three years to prepare the rollout, how in the world are they going to handle millions of people's health care? Just wait and see. That's all I have to say.


CAVUTO: Well, you -- that's a very good point, to say nothing of the just the time preparing for this, but then there's a new attack line here that I found interesting. And it continues a blame game here that I just think gets old, when -- when -- when I hear it with this health care law, that the reason why so many people are not getting the benefit of this -- and this is a point I want to pick up with former Senator Scott Brown, also of Massachusetts -- this idea that it's Republican governors who are fighting this, and -- and half in Congress who are still fighting this, that that's the reason why.

Scott Brown, that, I found to be just a whole new opening line in the blame game. In other words, you, Mr. President, have the problem with this site that you had three years to get up and running and can't. You, Mr. President, are the person who said that you wouldn't be seeing Americans lose their coverage, but are, and, yet, it's now a new line of attack that those balking Republican governors are the reason we're in the pickle we're in.

SCOTT BROWN, R-FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Well, Neil, can you hear me OK there?

CAVUTO: I can, sir.

BROWN: Great. Thank you.

Well, first of all, I'm glad the president came to Boston. As you know, it's John Adams' birthday. And John Adams said, you know, facts -- what did he say? He said, facts are stubborn things. And the fact that the president was there misleading the Massachusetts health care -- care plan, I was -- my blood was boiling.

It -- it's so different than what they're proposing in Washington. And to put out these half-truths and try to have the American people think, oh, it's great, everything is great, great, great, just a little Web site breakdown, it's -- it's disingenuous and it's completely misleading.

We didn't raise 18 new taxes. We didn't cut half-a-trillion from Medicare. We did it in a bipartisan, bicameral manner with business leaders and everybody else involved, not like they did, as you know, of all people, when they rammed it through when I got there through reconciliation, using parliamentary maneuvers to give us a plan that we in Massachusetts quite frankly don't want.

And a lot of people in Massachusetts are getting those notices. And we're having to give up the plans that -- that we fought very hard for in Massachusetts. So it's shame on him for coming to Massachusetts, especially in the Red Sox playing and the traffic jams are unbelievable.


BROWN: You can't imagine how many -- you can't imagine -- and now he's going to a fundraiser. He's going to just totally mess up traffic forever. So, it's just wrong.

CAVUTO: You know, Scott, I do want to follow something else he said that caught me, maybe because I follow the business community pretty closely, that a lot of the people that are getting sticker or premium shock are getting it because they were covered by bad apple plans, in other words, those companies that were -- were -- were giving you bare-bones coverage, and then when you have to include all this other stuff, you're getting socked to the nose.

The fact of the matter, these were not bad apple plans. A lot of them were very pristine, what we call Cadillac plans, what I think president calls Cadillac plans.

BROWN: Right.

CARSON: And they find out right now that to make the switch, if they have been dumped or they're forced out, it's going to cost them prohibitively more.

Now, that's not a bad apple plan. That's a business saying, this is the rate it's going, and this is the alternative you have, and you are screwed.

BROWN: You know, listen, the president is misleading the American people. There's a complete lack of trust between the American consumer right now, the people who are looking for health care in the administration.

Whether it's the website, whether it's, hey, don't forget, you know, you're not going to have to change a plan, you're not going to have to change your doctors. It's not going to cost you a penny more, well, those are lies.

And, in fact, that's -- that's, in fact, what's happening right now. And it's -- it's unfortunate. If I was giving any recommendations to the president right now, I would say, sir, pull everything back. Go on hiatus for about three to four months. Get an American company, first of all, to do the website, instead of a Canadian company and who we paid $400 million-plus, let's fix it, let's test it, and let's roll it out incrementally, like we did in Massachusetts.

And if we find any tweaks, then let's fix it incrementally. Let's not just say to everybody, hey, by the way, if you don't get on, that's too bad, tough luck. And if you get on, hey, congratulations, but they're still going to pay more money. They need to fix it. There's a lack of -- a lack of trust right now, and there's a serious credibility problem.

CAVUTO: But I think it's more than that, Scott.

And, Doctor, I will raise this with you as well. This -- it's a lack of basic business knowledge problem. I mean, any time...

BROWN: Because there's no one there who has any.


CAVUTO: Well, but here's what worries me.


BROWN: I'm sorry, Neil. There's...

CAVUTO: And I will take it up with you.

And, Doctor, if you don't mind, I want to hit you on this, because it's just a basic business issues as well as a medical issue. I remember covering this battle in Washington. We were there. I should have gotten a condo in Washington, I was there so often.

And one of the things that came up is this notion that you could cover those with preexisting conditions. A lot of Americans are for that. You can keep your kids on your policy longer. A lot of Americans are for that. You can get all of this and not have to pay more for it.

Well, that might seem like an ideal and it's a wonderful goal, but to assume that premiums won't go up in the face of that or that companies now facing all of this are not going to raise premiums as a result of that, is naive at best.

And so, when this happens, and the reality of these new requirements happen and companies do have to then jettison policyholders or let them know it's going to cost you a lot more, they're not the ones being the villains. They're following the law and the new requirements, and -- and that is prompting this move on to other exchanges and the sticker shock that Americans are experiencing.

I just think, Doctor, it would have been a lot more crucial and truthful for the president to say then, you can't get something for nothing, for those of you who get this kind of coverage, and we want to expand all this other coverage, you are going to pay more for that. It's simple math.

CARSON: Well, the -- yes.

Regards to Scott Brown.

Good to see you again. There is...

BROWN: Good to see you.

CARSON: ... no question that -- that he is pandering and taking advantage of the fact that a lot of people have not studied these issues very deeply.

And, you know, I again will say that it's going to become increasingly apparent what a problem this is. I just hope that all of those people who are rabidly behind the president and calling everybody else every name under the sun and thinking that they're evil will remember what I'm saying right now and see if maybe they change their minds.

CAVUTO: Scott Brown, where is this going?

BROWN: Hey, Neil, Neil, can I -- can I add something to that?


BROWN: I think you're absolutely right.

We have all those coverages. We have -- our kids are able to be covered up to 25. We could have changed it to 26. We already -- we already addressed preexisting care and preventative care. We already did it in the Massachusetts plan. Every other state should have that option.

To think that the federal plan, this one-size-fits-all, with the federal government, who can't seem to get out of its own way in almost everything it does run a health care plan...

CAVUTO: All right.

BROWN: ... a national health care plan? Forget about it.

CAVUTO: Senator, thank you. Doctor, thank you very much.

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