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The Five

New House GOP plan would fund gov't thru December 15

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 15, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City. And this is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

PERINO: It is day 15, and the shutdown in Washington continues.

This morning, House Republicans unveiled a proposal that was immediately rejected by the White House and they've since modified their plan, will bring it to the floor for a vote tonight. The bill would fund the government through December 15th and pin the debt ceiling to February 7th.

The only contentious provision would require the White House, Cabinet, Congress, and staff to be enrolled in ObamaCare without subsidies.

House Republican whip Kevin McCarthy hinted at this strategy earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), HOUSE MAJORITY WHIP: We think individuals should be treated fairly. That big business should not have special treatment. Members of Congress should not have special treatment. We are very cognizant of the calendar. We want to find a solution to this in a bipartisan manner that gets us moving forward and gets America back to working again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: House Democratic leadership just wrapped up a meeting with President Obama at the White House, and Nancy Pelosi had this response to the latest GOP plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Everybody knows that time is of the essence and if the Republicans in the House want to put up a bill, they should do it soon, but they have to know that they'll have to do that with 100 percent Republican vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right. So, one of the things that we said was that time is of the essence.

And, Eric, you had breaking news right before "The Five" started.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Literally, 10 minutes before we started, the Fitch ratings agency, one of the big rating agencies that puts credit ratings on our ability to pay our debts, just put us on a watch. A negative downgrade watch from AAA, which is so, you know, highly respected. The reason why that's important, is as you go lower on the credit rating, it costs you more to borrow money. So, you want to keep that AAA. Right now, we're on credit rating AAA watch for negative.

Be very careful. We don't want to move down on that.

But it's kind of stupid, it's kind of ridiculous what's going on. This plan that you just outlined, Dana, fund the government -- this is a GOP plan. Fund the government through December 15th and allow us to pay and raise our debt ceiling to run out somewhere around February 7th of 2014.
You add the Vitter which you outlined. And that's about it.

They took the medical tax issues out of the offer. They've really given the Democrats just about everything they want because the Democrats want to have their debt the exact same day, February 7th, 2014. They want to fund the government another two weeks. So the difference here is two weeks.

Now, the Democrats added this whole idea of giving the labor unions a carve-out, which sounds to me like they'll push, they'll pull that back and then they have themselves the deal. But the problem is the GOP guys, you've got their deal. You just handed them the deal that they wanted in the very beginning with the exception of the Vitter Amendment, which everyone in congress knows they can just buy their way out of that deal.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I think those dates are different, aren't they?

BOLLING: Two weeks.

BECKEL: I thought it was January 15th, February 15th.

BOLLING: December 15th -- the GOP plans -- December --

PERINO: An earlier one did say that. I didn't hear former Speaker Pelosi, Minority Leader Pelosi say that she would vote against it. What she said is that if this is your plan, you're going to have to deliver all of your Republicans.

Do you think she was saying we might be able to go for this?

BECKEL: Well, I mean, by saying that, she's saying that Democrats are going to vote against it.

I mean, one of the things that I think is the most compelling argument here, is if you keep this open only to December 15th, you're going to be back at this again. Just as people were doing holiday shopping, the rest of it is going to take a lot of confidence out of it.

I don't -- and, Eric, you know, you said this thing about putting on the watch. You said this didn't matter if we -- you know, we have the money to pay our debts. Now, you're saying, I assume it's going to make interest rates grow. So, it's going to impact.

BOLLING: It absolutely could have an impact, but it shouldn't. There's no way we default on our debt ever. So, putting us on a credit ratings watch is -- maybe they're playing into the hands of hey, guys, just get your act together. Maybe they're also seek and tired of seeing over-Botoxed lawmakers.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Oh, my gosh --

BECKEL: I don't know how the Democrats turn down the Vitter Amendment if it's in the context of a bill that does go into January and February. The idea of going just to December 15th makes no sense at all.

PERINO: Well, they may -- we can look forward to another holiday crunch time as you go forward.

Greg, do you think this has been an exercise in futility or a futile exercise?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hmm, that is a tough question. I have some breaking news.

PERINO: OK.

GUTFELD: I'm bored of this topic.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: The shutdown is like the world's longest soccer game that ends zero-zero and then they solve everything with penalty kicks. I always felt like with soccer, why not just start with penalty kicks?

PERINO: It's so nerve-wracking penalty kicks.

GUTFELD: Yes, but that's the point. It's like you watch a soccer game and it's like wow, this is boring. Then they get to the penalty kicks, and you go, OK, this is interesting. Let's just make soccer penalty kicks.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: With this kind of negotiation, why don't we just skip the whole month of this craziness and just get down to the penalty kicks? I think the Vitter Amendment is brilliant because it forces politicians to take their own medicine. I mean, this is something that, you know, they have to now live by their word, which I don't -- I don't know if that's ever happened before, if we've actually forced a politician to actually take the drug that they've been administering to everybody else. I would like to see them do it.

The other weird thing about it is watching how an Obama supporter's reward is to be exempt from the Obama policy, which is the unions.

GUILFOYLE: Is that crazy?

GUTFELD: It's like if you get involved with me, then you don't have to deal with me. It's like paying somebody not to sleep with you, which has happened to me before.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, right.

GUTFELD: The thing is though -- I don't know. I'm done.

PERINO: Let me get K.G. in here.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, because he's very bored.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I'm wearing new glasses. Testing these out. This is a dry run.

PERINO: You can vote on "The Five"'s Web site and our Facebook page, for which glasses you like. He's going to wear three pairs during the show.

GUTFELD: Yes, I will.

PERINO: We're going to see what he thinks. Really the only thing that matters is what Kimberly thinks about your glasses, and about all these antics.

GUILFOYLE: And about the vicious, senseless murder of the glasses that I bought you, by your buttocks. That was a big problem for me.

GUTFELD: And for the E.R. room.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: Kimberly, what do you make of the latest -- I want to get your take on what you think America is thinking as they look back at Washington as they get closer and closer to the deadline of the debt ceiling.

GUILFOYLE: You know what they're thinking? Quit acting like spoiled brats. Come up with something that's meaningful. Don't make this a waste of time. So, if you're standing on principle, get something for your side that you think is in the best interest for the country.

For example, for me, the House plan is good because it's saying, hey, if we have to do it, middle class of America is going to have to fund this ObamaCare, then how about you guys have to be subjected to the same thing.
Don't tell me what's good for us as Americans. Why don't you embrace it yourself and take it on.

BECKEL: Well, that's an awfully long way, though, from what -- I mean, Eric is right about this -- from where they started, what they wanted, they have now fallen back to what is arguably the easiest -- and if the Democrats don't take it, I don't know why --

BOLLING: They're out of their mind.

BECKEL: I tell you the idea that the public -- the public has turned so negative on the Republicans. I mean, poll -- it's getting worse and worse and worse. If I were them, I'd just cut my losses and get out.

BOLLING: You're 100 percent right. Bob, first of all, thank you for not being overly smug about this, but you're right. This is a complete win for the Democrats and the Democrats should take this and run. Otherwise, if they don't, if they want to hold out for their union buddies, and the GOP pushes back on that, we stay unfunded and things start to happen, Fitch, et cetera, then the worm is turned. Then it becomes a Democrat problem.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Let's see what happens.

PERINO: Whoever could have predicted that the Republicans were going to lose? Let's look at some of the things that the Democrats have said.

Senator Boxer had some not so kind comments yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: I have to say when you start acting like you're committing domestic abuse, you've got a problem.

I love you, dear, but, you know, I'm shutting down your entire government.
I love you, dear, but I'm going to default and you're going to be weak.

Something is dreadfully wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: You think you've ever heard someone say, "I love you, dear, but"?

BOLLING: Terrible.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Rumor has it --

BOLLING: Can we point something out? Do you know when we passed the debt ceiling? May 13th of this past year. We passed it May 13th.

So we've been getting along just fine. Shark-nado didn't matter, fiscal cliff didn't matter. Sequester didn't matter.

This is all theatrics. It's all Washington political theatrics. Get it over with, move on, and live to fight another day. Let ObamaCare fail on its own and stop by this fight.

BECKEL: I think that's -- it may turn out that way. But I would say be a little careful about a lot of the stuff they believe, a lot of the stuff I believe, like Charlie Rangel saying that the Republicans really want to take government down to what Reagan wants to take it down to, which is the size of the Jersey City council.

But you don't get on the air and start to say these kinds of things and gloat when you're winning. I mean, if I were Barbara Boxer, I would say, OK, we're winning this thing, I'll keep my mouth shut and make fun of it afterwards.

GUTFELD: Barbara Boxer, rumor has it, she got Botox so she could say the most outrageous things with a straight face.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

PERINO: Does that work?

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: Nancy Pelosi I thought.

PERINO: That's interesting.

Let me ask you this -- where do you think it goes from here? Predictions on tonight's vote in the house. Passes or not passes?

BOLLING: Well, I think they have to cut their losses. Yes, I hope it passes. What are they going to do?

If they say no and they come back for more, the Senate Democrats are going to say forget it, we have a deal. We have something on the table. They're going to keep pushing, it's going to get worse and worse for the Republicans.

Cut your loss. You're losing. Take the loss. Move forward.

Win the next fight, not this one. You lost.

BECKEL: They're not going to get any help out of the Democrats on this, which means that Boehner has got to do is produce all of his votes, including his Tea Party people, who will not like this very much, I can imagine.

Let's assume for a moment that Boehner says it's the only shot we've got and they go along with it. They put themselves in a better political position. They're still in a terrible spot, but at least it's a little bit better. If they turn it down and they leave it up to the Democrats and the Republicans for a compromise in the House, it gets shoved into the House's face.

If the House alone votes it down and lets the government keep going and being shut down and the markets get closed down, then the Republicans are going to be in real trouble.

So I think the best interest of the Republicans would be to pass this thing and to at least have something to negotiate with. But they may not.

PERINO: Anyone have a different point of view here?

GUILFOYLE: No, I think they've got to pass it.

BOLLING: The Democrats better take it --

GUILFOYLE: It's instability on the other side, which might be stretched.

BECKEL: Well, they won't -- the Democrats are not going to take that.

BOLLING: Why not? What's wrong with that?

BECKEL: December 15th is way too short.

BOLLING: We're talking a couple weeks difference, Bob. Literally. Three weeks difference between the two plans. And that is it.

BECKEL: Except I keep coming back to the question of consumer confidence.
You can't argue about that.

PERINO: We're going to have to run.

GUILFOYLE: Got to go.

PERINO: Do you have the last word, or are you done?

GUTFELD: I would have liked to have seen this go all the way to the end and stop pushing this.

BECKEL: Oh, it's going all the way --

GUTFELD: You know, President Obama has been a president of firsts. He's a historical president. He could have been the first president to default.
I would have liked to have seen that.

BECKEL: I think it's probably, right now --

GUILFOYLE: We'll be up there with Nobel Peace Prize, right?

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Less than 50-50 chance we will default. I cannot imagine the way the system works that they're going to get it done by the 17th.

BOLLING: We can't default.

BECKEL: Well --

PERINO: Years of damage to the American economy.

BECKEL: If anybody, if Teddy Cruz, for example, decides to say no, not unanimous consent --

BOLLING: We can't default, Bob.

PERINO: OK, we have to run. Or else we can't talk about all the other great stuff that we have coming up in the show.

Directly ahead, President Obama's former press secretary, Robert Gibbs, wants someone to be fired over the ObamaCare rollout. So, who should it be? We're going to look at some of the candidates.

And before you go, please check out our Facebook page at Facebook.com/TheFiveFNC. Plus our brand-new Web site at foxnews.com/thefive.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Remember when ObamaCare matriarch Kathleen Sebelius said this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON STEWART, COMEDY CENTRAL: How many have signed up thus far?

KATHLEEN SEBELIUS, HHS SECRETARY: Fully enrolled? I can't tell you.
Because I don't know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Well, two weeks into ObamaCare, as I prefer to call it, demo care, "The Wall Street Journal" reports only 38,000 people have waded through glitch city and enrolled in the president's signature achievement.
At this rate, 38,000 every two weeks, it will take 50.52 years to get the
48 million uninsured signed up.

So, what should happen to the Democrats in charge? Let's ask someone from each side of the aisle.

First, former Obama press secretary, Mr. Robert Gibbs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, FORMER OBAMA PRESS SECRETARY: This is excruciatingly embarrassing for the White House and for the Department of Health and Human Services. This was bungled badly. I hope they fire some people that were in charge of making sure that this thing was supposed to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So, got you, somebody should get fired. But who gets the axe?
RNC chair Reince Priebus penned an op-ed and even created a YouTube video calling for Kathleen Sebelius to be fired. For me, I'll just sit back and try to refrain from saying "we told you so."

Dana, is she the one that should be -- a lot of people fired? Is she the one that we have to point our finger at first?

PERINO: I think -- I think it would be very difficult for President Obama to do that at this point. Unless they can pinpoint exactly what went wrong. Do they not manage the process appropriately?

Obviously, that's what happened.

Today, though, Jay Carney, the press secretary, was asked if President Obama still had confidence in Kathleen Sebelius. The answer was an emphatic yes. My experience is that the president has confidence in the cabinet secretary up until the very last second when they go on to spend more time with their family.

BOLLING: What do we do here? I mean, it's so easy to set up a Web site.

GUTFELD: It is. The launch of this makes the arch deluxe look like the iPhone. Who is accountable? America, half of America.

The arch deluxe. At McDonald's? See, that's my point.

Half of America voted for President Obama. What is this called? It's called ObamaCare. Technically, he should be fired. But you can't because he's an incumbent.

So, you've got to do the next best thing. You've got to throw out every single person below him and every election. A candidate should be handcuffed to a victim of ObamaCare. Whenever they ask you a question about ObamaCare, you go look at this guy. This guy's life is screwed.

As for Sebelius, all she's got to do, leave her job and get -- and work at a place where competition doesn't matter. It's called academia.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It doesn't matter. Results don't matter.

BECKEL: No place does it matter.

GUTFELD: But you know what? Obama already has his legacy. He's got ObamaCare and he's proved to the world how great capitalism is. That when you operate outside of the world of capitalism, you don't need results.
You can fail at will. It doesn't matter.

BOLLING: So, K.G., so if one side is failing at will and failing miserably, can you imagine trying to get to a doctor or trying to get an approval for a test or something? How much are people going to be ticked off at ObamaCare?

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem. It's failure to launch. You can't even get on this thing to sign up for it. So just imagine you can't sign up for it.

How is this going to affect the level of medical care, the doctors you can get? I mean, it's very frustrating to me because there's really no excuse.
Aren't they best friends with people at Google? Like couldn't someone have helped them, their big donors, to make sure that this actually works correctly, especially if it's the law of the land, Bob?

BOLLING: Bob, talk about this. "Wall Street Journal" estimates 38,000 enrollees, two weeks in. What a miserable failure.

BECKEL: Well, I -- your point about two weeks, two weeks is not a very long period of time. It's not. Let me say this. I think Gibbs is right.
Somebody should be ousted here. Probably not -- it won't be Sebelius. I don't think.

GUILFOYLE: But it should be.

BECKEL: Whoever hired the computer people to do this.

But beyond that, let's get a little grain of salt with Gibbs here. Gibbs is upset with the White House. This is a little sour grapes on his part.

BOLLING: Why would you say that?

PERINO: No, he's not.

BOLLING: Because he believes -- a couple of other people believe that they were pushed out in the White House. And I think this is a little bit of sour grapes. But leaving that aside --

GUILFOYLE: Bob probably knows a thing or two about that.

BECKEL: Leaving that aside, I think the answer here is, in California, in states that took on the responsibility for the exchanges, they're working reasonably well. The red states --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: The very least you could do is say it's an epic failure at this point.

BECKEL: I don't call it an epic failure at all.

GUTFELD: How long did it take you to sign up?

BECKEL: I haven't signed up yet.

GUTFELD: Oh. Never mind.

GUILFOYLE: Bob has Dr. Siegel.

BOLLING: Come on, Bob. They have four and a half year, full four years to get this thing up and running, testing, and they turn it on.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You're talking about hundreds of millions --

BOLLING: So, what they didn't expect that? Did you not expect that?

Dana, if you didn't expect hundreds -- first of all, hundreds of millions, that would encompass in the whole United States at once, if you didn't expect tens of thousands of people signing up right off the bat, why we even do this term --

PERINO: But they had to expect that many because how many is needed to make it work. As you mentioned, you need 2.7 million young people to sign up and they're at 38,000. So, it's not going to work. In a way, what they need to do is something like what President Bush did with the surge, which was a foreign policy issue, but on this one, where you admit that there's a huge problem. You have some sort of radical change, and then you start to implement it and you go through it, because in the long run, President Obama's legacy will be more assured if he does something now to try to fix this than if they try to pretend that it's not a problem and blame Republicans. It doesn't look like it's going to get any better. And the interesting thing is the penalty tax is going to happen in eight weeks from now.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You say this thing is not working. How do you know --

GUTFELD: Bob is right. Bob is right.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Sebelius said it's user friendly. She was referring to heroin users, but it is user friendly.

BECKEL: Let's see what happens in January and February. To sit back here and suggest that the thing is a failure, it's all going to fall -- if that's the case, stop talking about it and wasting your energy.

GUILFOYLE: Bob.

BOLLING: Hold on, hold on, you're being disingenuous.

BECKEL: Why am I being disingenuous?

BOLLING: If you stand up here and say, you know what, it is failing right now, but it's going to be OK.

BECKEL: I'm saying -- no, I'm saying that it is failing now, but it is a huge system, it has time to get righted. And to sit back here and suggest that it's an epic failure --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You have every Republican seat, every House Republican --

BOLLING: The Obama administration is focusing on default and continuing resolutions. Is this -- is the reason why we're not hearing about this, do they want this focus on what we're talking about default instead of ObamaCare?

GUILFOYLE: They're playing distraction dust bowl over here so we don't focus on the problem, like people can't even get on to this. How is this making people healthier? It's getting them more stressed out, more cranky, more acid reflux, more gastritis, these are just the things that I get from Bob alone. Someone, help me.

What is going on here?

BECKEL: You're exactly right. I mean, if the focus has been on ObamaCare.
But who's responsible for that? It's the Republicans.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's what we were talking about a month ago, when Ted Cruz was talking about defunding. Wasn't that what we said on this show? Is that what we said?

BOLLING: If you want (INAUDIBLE), really stand up. If President Obama said, you know what? Given the glitches that are going on in the Web site right now, given the difficulty to sign up for ObamaCare, we'll delay it six months, we'll delay it a year.

GUILFOYLE: Does that seem fair? Because it looks like you're going to penalize people and they can't even get on it?

BECKEL: What it would do to people with preexisting conditions?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: It's a preexisting condition piece already was in place immediately upon passage. That was not dependent --

BECKEL: Can you change in on that $63 a month that people are so --

PERINO: Well --

(CROSSTALLK)

GUTFELD: What I don't understand is how -- why do have insurance at all if preexisting conditions aren't allowed? That would be like having no car insurance getting into a car accident, and then getting my insurance. I don't understand that. That's why this is going to fall apart.

BECKEL: If people have preexisting conditions, it seems to me that there ought to be a way --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: We've got to go. They're telling me to wrap.

By the way, Porter Berry's real name is Chuck Berry.

Coming up, the al Qaeda terrorists who bombed -- true. Charles Porter Berry -- who bombed embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 and who hid out for 15 years is now in U.S. soil and right here in New York City. Anas al Libi was in a courtroom downtown today. Sorry, guys.

Why isn't he at Gitmo? Why should he have the right to remain silent?
We'll tackle that and more when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, the alleged al Qaeda terrorist Abu Anas al Libi was arraigned in New York City courtroom this afternoon where he plead not guilty to terrorism charges related to the 1998 embassy bombings in Africa. The plea comes 10 days after his capture in Tripoli and just a week after his capture again aboard the USS San Antonio.

Critics question the administration's stance granting civilian trials to terrorists in cities like New York and not military tribunals in Guantanamo Bay.

Positioning people, we'll start with you.

GUTFELD: Me?

GUILFOYLE: Person at the end.

GUTFELD: Well, the bad news, he has hepatitis C.

The good news is, he's got ObamaCare, so he'll be dead in a week.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

GUTFELD: It's either a law enforcement matter --

BOLLING: He can't log on.

GUTFELD: Yes, he can't log on.

GUILFOYLE: He can't log on.

GUTFELD: Poor guy is going to be trying to get ObamaCare, help me. He'll be dead before the whole case starts.

But, no, is it a law enforcement matter or is it a war? To me it's a war, to be treated as such.

GUILFOYLE: OK Dana?

PERINO: What I think is interesting is -- I don't think we have a clear answer why from the government. Why he is not -- why they're not going to push for the death penalty. Nidal Hasan, the shooter in Fort Hood, he was accused of workplace violence, after his jury trial, he got the death penalty. This terrorist, even if it was 15 years ago, I think he should be under at least -- at the very least eligible for the death penalty as well.

GUILFOYLE: I think that's a very solid point coming from that end of the table. You've kind of made up Greg's comment.

PERINO: We don't have a clear answer from the government as to why, I don't think it's a clear answer.

BECKEL: I don't know what the big concern is here. I'm sorry, go ahead.

BOLLING: No, no, no --

GUILFOYLE: Bob was just like doing nap --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: No, I don't -- virtually every terrorist that's been indicted in this country and sent to jail has been done in this country. It has not been done in Guantanamo. And so, why is this any different?

BOLLING: Because he came here, first.

GUTFELD: But he didn't know he was here.

BOLLING: The other issue --

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Preexisting conditions.

BOLLING: You can hold him a terrorist at Guantanamo bay for a number of months or weeks.

BECKEL: For what?

BOLLING: To get some information.

BECKEL: I assume they got a lot of information on the ship over here.

BOLLING: You do?

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: That's enough.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: For 15 years, embassy bombings around the world.

BECKEL: The point is this big -- New Yorkers for some reason are so freaked out. I can understand 9/11 and all that. But this is where you prosecute people.

This is not -- Guantanamo Bay is not where you prosecute. You do it here.

BOLLING: No, Bob, you prosecute U.S. citizens here. You prosecute U.S.
citizens on U.S. soil.

BECKEL: That is not the case.

BOLLING: Foreign terrorists, you don't have to give them --

BECKEL: We have prosecuted foreign terrorists in this country under this system.

PERINO: Well, one of the additional concerns when Eric Holder in 2009 said he was going to bring the five detainees from Gitmo up to New York.
Remember, there was a huge outcry. One of the points is bring them to American soil gives them the rights of an American citizen.

But also, the other thing was the spectacle and the security concerns and making these guys martyrs when they're on TV and everything every day, that it's better to keep it off the shores and have it at Guantanamo Bay. That is the reasoning behind the question.

GUILFOYLE: I think you know my positioning on this. I do not think they should be brought to U.S. soil and tried. Gitmo.

BECKEL: Where should they be tried?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, they should be tried in military tribunals. That's the bottom line.

PERINO: Plus, they can play soccer on the new soccer field when they're done.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: By the way, I've seen that Congressman King said that was not U.S.
territory. Guantanamo is, in fact, under treaty U.S. territory.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Let's talk about the latest development. Let's talk about Iran. You like Iran? You want to go with me on that?

BECKEL: I think what they did in Geneva was something that -- if they don't go along with this, they will that much more isolate themselves.
They have gone farther out saying things they're going to do. Do I believe they're going to do that? Not necessarily. Do I believe they're putting themselves in a horrible position if they don't, after going to the world and saying we're going to do this? They've never done this before. I think there may be a crack here.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Bolling, you're heading that way?

BOLLING: These are the arbiters and financiers of terror around the world.
We should not be at the same table with them. They were clearly involved with Hamas, Hezbollah, jihad against Israel. They don't even believe Israel should be on the map.

It's time to continue the financial sanctions against Iran. In fact, let's up them a little bit and get away from that table. Let them bury themselves.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I don't buy --

BECKEL: If nuclear weapons being talked about, you don't think we should come to the table? If you have one in a million chance --

BOLLING: No, no.

PERINO: I don't buy it for a second. And I think that we are wasting
precious time where we could be putting more pressure on them to get them to give up their goal of a nuclear weapon. I don't believe for a second.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Bolling and Perino, shoulder to shoulder. Where do you stand? Well, probably beneath.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Ronald Reagan said trust but verify. President Obama, trust but bow.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, would you like --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I know that. I get yelled at here by calling people names. You called the president of the United States some of the worst names and --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Whether you like it or not, he is the president of the United States.

GUILFOYLE: In all the land.

BECKEL: You ought to look for every opportunity to figure out a way to negotiate. Maybe it's impossible. We've put every sanction you can possibly have on them. Why do you do business? You did business with the Saudis every day who finance terrorism around the world.

BOLLING: (INAUDIBLE)

BECKEL: Why do you business? You did business with Saudis, didn't you?
You did business with the Saudis. You're trading on gas with them. And they're the ones who fund terrorism.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: The 9/11 Commission put it directly between Iran, bin Laden, and al Qaeda.

BECKEL: Who paid for bin Laden?

BOLLING: What?

BECKEL: Who sent the money --

BOLLING: The Iranians.

BECKEL: The Saudis -- oh, come on. You guys are living in a dream. You buy into that --

PERINO: You're living in a dream if you think the Iranians are going to give up their nuclear weapons.

BECKEL: Do you think -- then why would they --

GUILFOYLE: OK, you know what?

OK, let's go. This is enough. I saw you take a nap today when you terrified me in the green room.

OK, we've got big-time hard news coming up on "The Five", which one of Greg's glasses do you like?

But besides that, another American hero received the nation's highest military honor today at the White House. We're going to tell you about Army Captain William Swenson's incredible act of valor and his remarkable request to keep serving his country.

That's coming up. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: According to "The Journal of Pediatrics," I read it over the weekend, kids with screwed up sleep patterns are more likely to be screwed up in general. Meaning, they're hyperactive, they have emotional difficulties, and they score low in test. If these sleep disruptions occur during key development, the consequences could be lifelong.

It makes sense. Even on eight hours of shut eye, I'm a wreck. But there's something else going on here, and it smacks of B.S. Irregular sleep is merely a marker of an uglier fact, one that experts are too scared to say.
If a kid is not getting to bed at a regular time, it's because his parents aren't either. Or his parents aren't even there at all.

The decline of intact households leads to messed up kids. A conclusion that blames people, not pillows, which creates discomfort among experts.

For champions of traditional family, a thing mocked mercilessly throughout the '70s. Yes. But that decade taught us anything, is that an intact family was no reason to sacrifice happiness. If things weren't working, bolt. The media applauded such disintegration. But what's left for some kinds is a latitude to make their own choices about sleep, diet, friend, et cetera. I call this the pig pen effect, after the kid from Peanuts.

You can see him as a child whose liberty to make his own cause resulted in his own dirtiness. Maybe that is freedom, but let's call it what it really is, neglect.

Everybody's doing this, like they weren't listening.

E.B., is this more about parenting than pillows?

BOLLING: You know, Greg, when I heard you were doing this story, writing a monologue, I was a little upset. I was a little nervous about it, because parenting is bar none the toughest job on the planet, times ten.

GUTFELD: And I'm not doing it.

GUILFOYLE: We're pointing that out.

BOLLING: But you made a couple of leaps in there. You say kids who aren't getting to bed at the right time means their parents aren't either. Not necessarily true. One doesn't necessarily have to go with the other, and that lead to a kid make own his own choice necessarily would lead to what you called neglect. Not necessarily true also. There are hands-on parents that let their kids stay up and watch TV if they want to.

PERINO: At 16. These are younger kids.

BOLLING: Yes, I have worries on that. But some parents have always -- there are other parents who don't give a crap about what their kids do and they end up being really, really functional and fantastic students.

I think you generalized. It was interesting. I think the study is B.S.
And for that, I agree.

GUILFOYLE: I thought you handled that in a very tactful way.

BECKEL: I don't think you can call a study a B.S. It's a 10,000 sample survey. It's very well-done survey research piece. And what it says here is, in the end, that only 9 percent of the kids are not getting their regular sleep patterns. It's not a huge epidemic. And if they do get sleep at a regular time, it does show that there has been a pattern of having less hostility and being less disruptive.

So, maybe there's something to be said about it. Certainly the numbers are there. If these numbers 10,000 are true, it's very hard to deny that this is probably accurate.

GUTFELD: I like it when Bob reads the packet.

GUILFOYLE: Wasn't that impressive?

Wait, I've got to do my thing.

GUTFELD: Yes, go, K.

GUILFOYLE: It's my turn. I have a child. OK?

OK, I have one child at home. That's like a little munchkin. And I have this child here. So when you talk about eight hours of sleep, I hear this weird noise emanating from the (INAUDIBLE). I go in there, and there's Bob all laid out, right? And he's snoring.

I take a little picture of him. It's very cute. I don't know if we have that.

Bob said to me the reason why he's so tired is he only had eight hours of sleep. I was thinking that's a lot of sleep, Bob. Do we have a little picture? Is that a no? It's so cute.

BECKEL: I think they're afraid to run that picture.

GUTFELD: Because he wasn't wearing pants.

GUILFOYLE: No.

GUTFELD: Dana, very quick, you actually get to bed before you go to sleep.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Which is amazing.

PERINO: How well-adjusted I am, how well I do on test.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

PERINO: I had a bedtime of 8:00 p.m. for a long, long time. It got stretched to 8:30 p.m. And it got to the point where I will just put myself to bed.

BECKEL: You don't really go to bed at 9:00, do you?

PERINO: On Sunday I did. It works for me to have a regular bedtime.

GUIFOYLE: I think it's important --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I will say this. What Eric said. It is the toughest job in the world.

My daughter was one who was very difficult. She would not go with a pattern. She's turned out so far, knock on wood, quite well. So, I --

BOLLING: So, you're refuting your earlier comment.

BECKEL: No, no, no, I'm saying that I think this study is a good study and it probably is better to err on the side of regular sleep patterns.

GUTFELD: All right. I've got to move on.

Coming up, an honor student does the right thing by not letting her drunk friend get behind the wheel. So why did her school punish her for it? How she's fighting back, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: That's what I'm asking. Who is that?

Two weeks ago, Massachusetts honor student Erin Cox did what every parent hope they would do. She wouldn't let her friend drive home drunk from a party, so she gave her a lift. Now, the high school volleyball captain has been benched for five games and stripped of her captainship because of her school's zero tolerance policy on alcohol and drugs.

The Cox family has hired a lawyer, hoping to get Erin's punishment reversed. Here's her mom, Eleanor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELEANOR COX, ERIN'S MOTHER: She's very fragile. I'm worried about her, very worried about her. She didn't do anything wrong. She did what she thought was right. And I'm proud of her for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Eric, you've been in that situation. So have I. What do you think?

BOLLING: I think what this does if this holds, if the school's making it more difficult for kids to be the smart one to do the right thing, to be the designated driver because you're still going to get -- if you get pulled over, the school finds out about it, you're still going to get punished and you're doing the right thing.

So what's the point of being the good person and not drinking when your friends are drinking? They got to reverse this right away.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. It's upsetting because this really has a chilling effect on young students that are responsible. They want to do the right thing which is going to develop good character going forward in life. I think it's incumbent upon them to change this and reverse the decision.

BECKEL: Well, Greg, a number of people drove you home drunk, do you think they should have been punished for driving you home drunk?

GUTFELD: I luckily have lived in a city where I have people drive me home drunk they are called cab drivers.

But you know what? They need to start a business. They need to have like a little business of designated drivers.

PERINO: For teens?

GUTFELD: Yes, well, there's a guy that comes up -- where was I living that comes in with a car and has a scooter and then you get on the scooter with him and he drives you home. It's pretty interesting.

GUILFOYLE: Without a helmet.

GUTFELD: Wait, wait, that was in the Philippines. Never mind.

BECKEL: Dana, what do you think?

PERINO: I think the fact that they had to hire a lawyer proves that there are just way too many lawyers. And that they are having to go in rather than having the school deal with this in a common sense way, you actually have to hire a lawyer to get your school to make a good decision. That's ridiculous.

BECKEL: Well, you know, this is part and parcel but you use the word "zero tolerance" leaves no room at all for interpretation. And I think zero tolerance is a bad idea in anything. I mean, there's different circumstances.

And if this girl -- she probably -- she could have saved this girl's life.
That's the thing I find most amazing.

GUILFOYLE: Or somebody else's.

BECKEL: Right. And I tell you a number of people drove me home fortunately or I wouldn't be here to say "One More Thing" up next!

PERINO: Did it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for one more thing.

Greg, your phone's on, Greg.

GUILFOYLE: It is.

PERINO: Kimberly is going to take us --

GUILFOYLE: Well, I think this is really important today was significant.
I think if you spent time with FOX News, which I hope you did, it's time well-spent. And you saw former Army Captain William D. Swenson who was given the Medal of Honor by President Barack Obama today.

And the most interesting aspect of this story is the fact he's asked to re- enlist and if he does he could go back and attain the rank of major. This was for his conduct that in 2009 showing incredible heroism in a lengthy battle against the Taliban in Afghanistan near the Pakistan border. So, he is to be commended and respected and honored today.

PERINO: Indeed. Good story. Inspiring story.

Eric, you're next.

BOLLING: OK. So, calling the character -- I love the zombies. I just absolutely love the zombies, love "Walking Dead." "Walking Dead" Sunday night kicked off the season 4 series, fourth season to 16 million viewers,
10 million in the key demo. They beat the NFL Sunday night football.

And I love so much Sunday night, I was also at Halloween horror night at Universal Studios. There's me at the front gate. If you've ever been there, you have to see -- if you're into the scare thing, it's the greatest night of your entire life. Lights come down, zombies come from everywhere.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I love it.

PERINO: I would never go to that. I would never, ever go.

BOLLING: Absolutely crazy time. Do we have any video of that? Do you have it real quick? Couple seconds.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYUS)

BECKEL: Oh, yes, there's my idea of a fun night right there.

PERINO: That's horrible.

BOLLING: So you're literally standing in the middle and they come out at you.

PERINO: I would never do that.

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.

PERINO: Greg, you're next.

GUTFELD: If you can't afford to go down there, as you know, Greg's apartment, I do the same thing. Call ahead, show up, I hide behind his couch and then I attack you.

This is a new little thing I'm doing. It's called resurrected phrase.
It's opposite of a banned phrase. It's a phrase I want to bring back.

PERINO: Wait, this is my idea. I was going to do this last week.

GUTFELD: You know what? You weren't here, so now it's mine.

Swell. I am tired of people using the word perfect. Are you ever on TV -- on the telephone and you're ordering something and you go, yes, I'll have a large order of chow mein, they go perfect -- no, it's not perfect, just say OK, or swell. Brilliant from British people, oh, that's brilliant. Just say swell. Tired of awesome from Dennis Rodman. Say swell.

From now on everybody say swell.

GUILFOYLE: Isn't that a little antiquated?

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: You know what, you're a terrible, awful little --

PERINO: It was great though.

GUTFELD: A bad person.

PERINO: I was really going to do that last week.

GUTFELD: I was going to do something it's not the same as doing something.

PERINO: Joshua, you are in trouble. Joshua, our producer.

OK.

BECKEL: This is the headline in the story is how fast will poverty cost Americans billions. Americans have spent billions of dollars to -- in the safety net mostly in food stamps for people who work for McDonald's because McDonald pays such slave labor wages, lay people cannot live on it. So they have to go get food stamps.

And, Eric, always say there's always food stamps, you can thank McDonald's and other fast food places won't pay a living wage.

GUTFELD: You can't do that after one more thing.

BECKEL: Why can't I do that as a one more thing?

GUTFELD: It's a segment where we debate it.

BECKEL: I don't debate your points.

GUTFELD: Well, on one more thing it's --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: He resurrected the word swell. It's not the same thing.

GUTFELD: You bring in a thing that's so dishonest.

BOLLING: And so hyper-partisan.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it's an ad hominem attack.

BECKEL: Oh, I see, I'm hyper-partisan at this table, I see, OK, good. I'm glad we got that through.

PERINO: Speaking of partisanship, did you know there was a fight that broke out on Capitol Hill this weekend?

GUTFELD: Oh, geez.

PERINO: I was there to witness it. It happened right there. That's Jasper and (INAUDIBLE). Look at that. Takes a right hook to the face.

That's my one more thing.

GUTFELD: Are you involved in a dog fighting ring?

GUILFOYLE: I think they're kissing.

PERINO: All right. That's it for us on "The Five." Thank you so much. We're going to see you tomorrow.

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