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The Five

Was Affordable Care Act rollout botched?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 7, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Brian Kilmeade.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City. This is "The Five."


BOLLING: Well, happy Monday, everybody. And welcome to day seven of the Harry Reid government shutdown.

On the left, President O and liberals unwilling to negotiate to solve the political stalemate. On the right, a small group of gutsy Tea Party-backed reps who are doing exactly what their base elected them to do. Fight ObamaCare and a redistribution president at all costs.

But ObamaCare launched Tuesday anyway amid massive glitches. Here's America's CEO on a number of ObamaCare enrollees in week one.


INTERVIEWER: How many people signed up for insurance this week?



BOLLING: You don't have the numbers? Really, sir? Can you imagine Apple not knowing how many iPhone 5s were sold? By the way, the number was 9 million in the first three days. Almost 3 million of you watched THE FIVE's last show.

So, I wonder why the president doesn't know. Should we rename it Obama doesn't care? How did Obama do on rolling out week one?

"Saturday Night Live", "The Five" wants to know. President O, a winner or loser?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Loser, the ObamaCare Web site, with had technical issues because of too much web traffic. You can't campaign on the fact millions don't have health care and then be surprised that millions don't have health care. How could you not be ready? That's like 1800-flowers getting caught off guard by Valentine's Day.


BOLLING: There it is. His signature legislation. His name's on it. In the weekend, he has no idea how many signed up.

BECKEL: You know, that was a really impartial open on your part.

BRIAN KILMEADE, CO-HOST: Did you write that, Bob?

BECKEL: A few brave Tea Party people standing up there --


BECKEL: Yes, that's right. And Obama doesn't care. I get.

BOLLING: So what about it? Why ---


BECKEL: First of all, the report -- why does he not know? I'm not sure anybody knows. The point is, come January 1, millions of people will have ObamaCare.

The other thing you don't understand is millions already are benefiting from it. Those who get their parent's insurance until they're 26 and those like me who have pre-existing conditions.

So, you can go on about it all you want. You can talk about all the glitches and the rest of it. The fact is, ObamaCare is here, and it's here to stay. It's got --


BOLLING: K.G., do you think by any chance, call me a skeptic, call me crazy, but maybe he didn't know the number because it was so darn low? He's so darn low, he's embarrassed to say what the number was?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, I think that's part of the problem. It seems like a reasonable explanation to me. My favorite was, the Obama doesn't care, but how is it you can say you're going to provide health care for everyone? It doesn't work at all. It's more than just the glitch. Nobody can get on how many days later.

So, to me, this isn't even a train wreck. It's a 787 with Dreamliner with screaming passengers running right into a mountain.

BOLLING: President Obama is the CEO of the country. Any CEO with such a massive rollout of their product would know how things are going. Day one, hour one. Day one, week one, right?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yes, and they would break it out into what time were people ordering. Was it early in the quarter of the hour? Just like we look at ratings.

If he wanted to know, he would have known. If the number would have blown all of us away, we would all know it. I think that the glitches piece of it, it's a significant story, but that's actually one that could be fixed.

So, the disaster is in the complete missed opportunity, especially when it comes to two basic things -- the tort reform piece and the ability to sell across state lines. If they had allowed those things, then you would have one big thing called the free market and it would work.


BOLLING: Brian, they had four years to have this Web site up and running. They knew they were going to get people trying to sign up. They blew it.

KILMEADE: Here's a deal -- if I'm President Obama and I believe in the product, which he clearly does, Bob, you'd agree, I'd be angry. I'd go, I so disappointed in 46 of the 50 states not being able to get this up. He absolutely did not get it done.

The fact that no one`s reporting to him with the numbers he wants -- we watch this every day. I studied at the Cavuto school of business. I understand CEOs sometimes delegate responsibilities if it doesn't work out, so people get fired and they demand accountability.

Why does the president try to soft pedal it? Why doesn't he come out and say, I can't believe --

GUILFOYLE: Nothing's his fault, that's the problem.

BOLLING: Maybe, the scary part is, if they --

KILMEADE: You would never say that? I'm so disappointed? But you cannot be my press secretary then, because you can't giggle in front of the press.

BOLLING: Think about this for a second. If they blow something as basic as getting a Web site open for business, how are they going to manage one- sixth of the $15 trillion economy?

BECKEL: First of all -- not very well put together website. We made this point over and over here about all these businesses with 50 employees going to lose -- do you know that 93 percent of the businesses in America have less than 50 employees, 93 percent.

TANTAROS: That's a point, but you want those companies to have more employees, you want them to grow beyond 50 employees.

BECKEL: Those people not get --


BECKEL: It's not off topic. But it's good news.

BOLLING: It certainly is off topic. We're talking about President Obama fudging the numbers.

BECKEL: Obama doesn't care.

BOLLING: I got a better one.

BECKEL: Impeach him.

BOLLING: Obama must think we're playing stupid or something. Can you imagine going into a negotiation by first giving away the ranch and hoping the other side plays fair? Take a listen to this today.


OBAMA: We can't fret an economic catastrophe to authorize the Treasury to pay America's bills. Pass a budget. End the government shutdown. Pay our bills. And prevent an economic shutdown. And as soon as that happens, I am eager and ready to sit down and negotiate with Republicans on a whole range of issues.


BOLLING: So, Brian, let me throw this out here. So, there are two things on the table. It's the budget and then there's the debt ceiling. So, President Obama suggests today on the podium that Republicans give in on the budget and give in on the debt ceiling and then maybe he'll -- the only promise is to sit down.

KILMEADE: Here's a deal -- clearly, he got some bad polling, bad data over the weekend. They said, hey, this whole intransigent, I will not negotiate, it's not working for him. So, I'm going to split the baby.

I'm going to say I'm not to move and then I'm going to end it with, I like negotiate, hoping people who are so busy in their lives will go, isn't it nice of the president to give in after a while? But we do know there is some movement today. We do know the president might be open to extending this an extra six days, a temporary refunding of the government.

BECKEL: Do they get different polling data on Long Island and the rest of America?


BECKEL: You probably do --


BECKEL: The fact of the matter is, Republicans are getting more and more blame. But here's the most important -- Eric, of course, would never put it in his open -- the Democrats have asked Boehner to please put a clean C.R. on the floor and let's have a vote and he will lose, but he won't do it.

BOLLING: Of course he won't.

BECKEL: He won't do -- why?

BOLLING: Why would he?

BECKEL: Because it's a C.R. -- the majority of the House of Representatives --

BOLLING: Here's what you're doing. You're talking to our viewers who maybe not -- don't understand the inside baseball workings of D.C.

Dana, John Boehner -- do you think John Boehner will actually bring that vote to the floor of the House?

PERINO: No, he's going to -- he has to have something. They have to and President Obama -- they have to know this, Bob, that they have to give him something. So, the rudimentary principles of the negotiation would say, OK, what can we give him?

If I were Boehner, I think I would ask for two things. Two votes so that everybody's on record. A clean C.R. with an amendment that says government has to abide by the same rules as the rest of America. And the second one, asking for a one-year delay in the individual mandate.

BECKEL: OK, I think your first --

PERINO: On those two things I think -- even if he loses, then you have all those Democrats on record and then you're off to the races.

BECKEL: Last week, it was the whackos who were keeping this thing from being passed. Now, the whackos do not have enough whackos to stop it and you don't let the thing go through to the well of the Congress.

BOLLING: Can you imagine bringing that vote and letting 200 Democrats --

BECKEL: Having democracy works?


BECKEL: Having democracy works?

BOLLING: Don't worry, ain't going to happen.


BECKEL: You're afraid to do it. You're cowards.

BOLLING: Here's the president would like. He would like -- I guess Bob thinks it's the right thing to do -- he wants the Republican to say, just give us everything. Go to the vote and give us everything, without negotiating. Who's going to go back to their constituency and, look what we got? Nothing.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody's going to do that. What was the whole point of this exercise to begin with? Because that's what it would have been, it was just a little bit of stretching, with no substance to it, if you would have go by Bob's recommendation, it is not realistic or feasible. It's not going to happen.

BECKEL: It's the a majority -- it's democracy. It's a majority of the House, a majority of the Senate, and the president. That's how it works. I've got to get you an online class in civics.

BOLLING: Bob, I don't need an online class in civics. I would -- John Boehner isn't going to bring that if even if there are --

BECKEL: He's a fool to not do it.

BOLLING: He's a fool to bring it if he did, because they would march right out of this one.


BOLLING: Take a look at the ad wars going on behind the scenes. Watch this, one of each.


AD NARRATOR: Boehner doesn't have guts to put a clean bill on the floor to fund the government. Why? He's afraid of the Tea Party. Call Boehner and tell him: don't let Tea Party radicals sabotage our government.

OBAMA: I will not negotiate.


OBAMA: In case there's any confusion, I will not negotiate.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: The president has made it clear he is not going to negotiate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn't this insane?


BOLLING: All right, so, Bob, clearly, on left, they want that clean C.R. to go to a vote. That's not the way to get it done.

BECKEL: Last week, the reason was you couldn't get enough votes to pass it. Now, you can get enough to pass it. And the Republicans are absolutely going in the tank for the right-wing zealots like you who buy into this stuff. Democracy is democracy. If you got enough votes to pass it, you pass it. You got enough votes.

Boehner frankly is being a coward by not bringing it up.

PERINO: I cannot believe that.

KILMEADE: If Greg Gutfeld's hamstring had torn on Monday instead of Friday, and I was -- or Tuesday, I had filled in for him, whatever the reason is he couldn't be here, I would say Bob, you're right. I would say there's a lot of people in the House that were against what Ted Cruz did and were offended, 20 to 25.

I think the president's stance, which you saw in that commercial highlighted, has made people like Peter King rethink their stance. And say, wait a second, I don't like the way he's refusing to negotiate. I don't like the stance or tone. I am not sure that John Boehner was wrong on Sunday when he said, if I put it to the vote, then it would not -- then a clean C.R. would pass.

BOLLING: By the way, who says it will?

GUILFOYLE: You're saying the same thing.

BOLLING: Because there are 23 that said they would vote in favor --

BECKEL: Put it on the floor.

BOLLING: You think those 23 who --

BECKEL: Find out, put it on the floor --

BOLLING: They'll raise their hand, saying, I vote for --


BOLLING: You're out of your mind.

BECKEL: Put it on the floor, see if you have the guts to put it on the floor, you don't.

BOLLING: There's another big battle going on and this is alleging going to come down on October 17th. Now, that's a floating date. Jack Lew, the treasury secretary, said on October 17th, we're going to run out of money. We're going to run out of debt. We're going to run our ability to raise our debt above that limit. It doesn't necessarily have to be that day.

Take a listen to Jack Lew over the weekend, I would say fear-mongering. And then Rand Paul's response. Listen.


JACK LEW, TREASURY SECRETARY: The consequences are immediate and they're very bad. Congress needs to act.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Would it be catastrophic?

LEW: Chris, I am telling you that I know the direction. I know the direction is bad. There are a range of how bad. It is not responsible -- it is irresponsible and it is reckless to take that chance.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I think it's irresponsible of the president and his men to even talk about default. There's no reason for us to default. We bring in $250 billion in taxes every month. Our interest payment is $20 billion. Tell me why we would ever default.


BOLLING: OK, Dana, here are the numbers. In the brain room, we crunched the numbers for 10 months in 2013. We're going to take in $225 billion per month. Servicing our debt, which were the only reason that would cost America to default is if we didn't do that, is only $24 million. It's $200 billion more left over after that.

PERINO: As I understand it, one of the things the Treasury -- what Treasury does is look at the day-to-day revenue projections, not the month long. You have to ask yourself, is this any way to run a business or country?



PERINO: That the American economy hinges on $24 billion to be able to pay our debt. That I think is going to feed into this shutdown story and debt limit story are going to come together, and when there is something that is worked out, they'll do it together.

I have a question about the story line that Jack Lew, when he was talking about the debt ceiling, what I don't understand from the Republican side as well is, so the shutdown was supposed to cause pain in order to get people to do something. But the pain has not arrived.

BOLLING: Can I push it back a little bit? President Obama likes the pain. He's pushing for maximum --

BECKEL: There is pain --

BOLLING: When you talk about closing the ocean, down in Florida, they close a portion of the ocean, when you talk about World War II Memorial --

PERINO: Throwing people out of their homes? Closing down the Amber Alert.

BOLLING: Amber Alert, yes.

PERINO: I agree they're trying to do that, but I don't think anybody's quite thought through, the American people are sort of like, what is all the fuss about? Because they haven't seen it yet.

But the markets could react, and could react very negatively and that's when you see action on Congress.

KILMEADE: You know, we did see the pain with sequester if you're in the military. We didn't see it throughout the country. So, you could see the -- the problem is the president oversold the pain.

GUILFOYLE: But that's population specific. So, what we're seeing -- the rest of America really understand what's going on that this is, you know, a bad situation. Right now, they're holding firm.

BECKEL: If you don't think that pain for a small business is not being able to process your loans and for students to not process your loans or for any number of programs not being serviced in America to help poor people, if you don't think that's pain, then I guess you have --

PERINO: Bob, there's not an overwhelming story line that has been produced that is going to spur action --


PERINO: And it's going to run into the debt ceiling.

BECKEL: Your math, again, we've got to get you into Phoenix University.

BOLLING: It's he real math, Bob, it's not the Obama math, or the Beckel math.

BECKEL: What about the deficit? You say $250 billion a month, right? Is that what you're saying?

KILMEADE: Two hundred and fifty billion.

BOLLING: Two hundred and twenty-five billion are the federal receipts between taxes, fees and licensing. We take in $225 billion per month.

BECKEL: How much do we spend?

BOLLING: Servicing that debt is $24 billion.

BECKEL: How much we spend above that?

BOLLING: Well, above that. Therein lies the problem. There is why --

BECKEL: You want to just cut all that off?

BOLLING: Here's what you do, Bob. Here's what it is. In an example that you may or many understand. You get your paycheck every week --

BECKEL: I understand.

BOLLING: The first thing you do is pay your mortgage, right? The second thing is pay your electricity bill. The third thing is pay your --

GUILFOYLE: Water, garbage --

PERINO: Car, cable.

BOLLING: About a tenth, or eleventh, then start paying, in my case, a bar tab or restaurant tabs. But if you don't have enough money to pay for that, you say, look, I'm going to get paid next week too, just hang in there. We'll be good.

BECKEL: OK, since we know where the deficit is, then what you ought to say is, let's not pay Social Security recipients, let's not pay Medicare.

BOLLING: We don't do that, Bob. Those are mandatory --

BECKEL: OK, then you've got mandatory payments so you've got to do that. There's not enough money to be taken out of discretionary spending for what you're talking about.

BOLLING: Well, actually, there is.

BECKEL: Where, how?

BOLLING: Discretionary spending is about a third of all our spending, right?

BECKEL: There's air traffic controllers, border --

BOLLING: So, two-thirds comes from non-discretionary, right?

BECKEL: Excuse me, you want to pick out of that which one you will cut?

BOLLING: Yes, until they figure out their act in D.C.

PERINO: Or you can also fight for reform to the entitlement programs, that would allow you to have more revenue. That was the Paul Ryan plan --

KILMEADE: Paul Ryan evidently working on something behind the scenes right now.

BECKEL: There's going to be a deal on the 17th.

GUILFOYLE: That's the point, use this as a unique opportunity to make cuts that are much needed so we can work better as an efficient government.

BOLLING: We're going to have to leave it there. That was one kick butt A- block, you guys.

Listen, a couple of programming notes, FOX News kicks off --

BECKEL: Math was a little weird --

BOLLING: -- a brand-new prime-time lineup.

KILMEADE: Look at that.

BOLLING: Tonight, Greta at 7:00, O'Reilly at 8:00, Megyn Kelly at 9:00, and Hannity at 10:00. And "The Five" will be part of Megyn's very first show so we'll see you in the 9:00 hour.

And tomorrow, we're headed down to D.C. to do the show from there. Dana will explain why we're going there a little later.

But, first, an explosive new investigation discovers a major scheme to defraud the nation Social Security disability programs. That's next on THE FIVE.


PERINO: Today, Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn released a damning expose of the bloated and corrupt U.S. Disability Fund. The program serves roughly 12 Americans with an annual budget three times than the Department of Homeland Security.

The fraud exposed by the senator and his staff plays like a Grisham novel - - crooked lawyers, judges and doctors all gaming on vulnerable government program.

Here's Senator Coburn, also a doctor, discussing the problems at the Senate hearing earlier today.


SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: While lawyers and doctors were getting rich by exploiting a broken program, the real victims were the claimants and the American taxpayer. The claimants suffer because we don't do any favors when we wrongly award benefits and we will certainly hurt those who justifiably are receiving those benefits when the trust fund runs out of money probably in less than 18 months.


PERINO: OK, this follows on a little bit to what we were talking about -- 18 months to go before this fund, which helps people that are on disability, and the question of how much fraud is involved in this was exposed by Senator Coburn and his staff by "60 Minutes" last night.

How much fraud do you think is in the program where you can start to flip that ratio that we're talking on discretionary and nondiscretionary?

BOLLING: I'm not sure there's enough there. Remember, the Social Security trust fund has been looted. The overall, the $2 trillion trust fund, they've already done that one. So, now, they're playing around with this one. To understand why this is important, yes, people pay into the disability fund. You do, when you get your check, money goes towards it.

However, so many people are going on to disability now that may or may not need it, it jeopardized it when it runs out of money, it jeopardizes the people who actually do need it. So, in a year and a half or so, when it runs out of money, the trust is completely blown, people who really need disability, they're going to start cuts back from $1,100 a month to whatever it may be. That's part of the problem.

And "60 Minutes" did a great job exposing some of the lawyers bringing the suits and --

PERINO: Yes, the one last night, the villain last was called Eric Cullen (ph) and let's take a look at that and take Kimberly's take on this lawyer.


REPORTER: A lot of allegations out there about you that we wanted to talk to you about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. I'm not normally a shy person but I think it's best I speak in the legal realm rather than here. I know ya'll have come a long way. I don't mean to be inhospitable. I just think it's probably best now.

REPORTER: You can't talk about your relationship with George Dougherty (ph) or your incredible success in disability court?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's tempting. Oh, I would love to comment on some of that. But no, sir, I really don't think I should right now.


PERINO: So, Kimberly, as a lawyer, what he does is he tells clients, if you've been turned down for Social Security, I can help you. He's got like a 99 percent approval rating. Guess who pays for it? The Social Security administration pays the lawyer.

So, smart lawyer or crooked lawyer?

GUILFOYLE: That's what we call a racket. He's got a whole operation going there. He should be investigated. He's smart enough OK, and probably dishonest enough to avoid the questions that "60 Minutes" wants to hand him because that will nail him and he could involve himself with criminal liability.

PERINO: Bob, you think, let me ask you, would think liberals who support this program and want people who are in need to be able to have access to funds, wouldn't liberals be the most mad about this?

BECKEL: And they are. I mean, they're now servicing about four times as many people as they were supposed to, they thought they were going to.

The villains here are not just the lawyers, it's the doctors they sign up and pay off. To say this person's got a disability. And so, you've got doctors and lawyers being paid. If you took them out of the mix, people who need it could get their liability for a long time. But these doctors are just -- these are the same doctors who worked for Medicare and Medicaid, always bitching about not getting their payments from the federal government when they're ripping off the federal government.

KILMEADE: I don't know if they're the same doctor. But here's what I find heartening. Because this is something everyone can rally around and can be strengthened out. Because if you go ahead and start suing some of those people, start pursuing some of these folders, start looking into some of these different cases, and then you start putting these people in jail, demanding a refund, that is going to just send shockwaves throughout the whole corruption situation and stop it.

And what happened to people's integrity, honesty and conscience? How could you go home every day knowing you're whole -- you're 100 percent healthy and you're getting free money from taxpayers? Go right from unemployment to fake illnesses and injuries, going through the court system? Well, that guy gets fat.

PERINO: Well, can I answer that in a little bit? I think that Dr. Coburn had a really good answer on "60 Minutes" last night, to the point that if you get $1,100 a month, it's not like you're living large. But a lot of people, when they run out of their unemployment benefits, maybe say you're 58 years old. You're not old enough to qualify for your Social Security yet. So you need a bridge, and people are going to have to eat. What Senator Coburn says is why don't we just be honest about the problems in our economy and try to fix those, rather than having a fraudulent program?

Social security disability program will cost American taxpayers in 2014, $135 billion. ObamaCare's expected to cost $49 billion. I think that Senator Coburn and his staff, who are the ones who did the investigation --

GUILFOYLE: Where is Holder and injustice department? I guess this wasn't a stinky enough scandal for them?


BOLLING: He did say expect a call from the DOJ of this guy, this Eric Cullen last night. There's also --

GUILFOYLE: They have to investigate it.

BOLLING: Also, lawyers from law firm for Binder and Binder --

KILMEADE: You see their commercials, in 10 seconds.

BOLLING: Who said 50 percent of their claims they knew were B.S.

KILMEADE: And they know it. The thing is, Dana, they're not all 59 years old look for a bridge. There's a lot of 39 years old looking for a free pass to go fishing all day.

PERINO: I know. I'm just trying to be nice.


BECKEL: There aren't enough lawyers at DOJ to investigate because we're cutting them because of budget cuts.

PERINO: Good thing we have a lawyer right here, Kimberly Guilfoyle.

BECKEL: Yes, why don't you come back and work in the government?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, I'm sure Eric Holder --

PERINO: OK, we've got to go. He's yelling at me.

Exciting news for FIVE fans, we've got a brand-new web page. Check it out at It is great.

Coming up, new information on terror raids by U.S. forces in Africa over the weekend. What netted a terrorist we've been trying to find for 15 years. That and much more ahead on "The Five".


GUILFOYLE: Over the weekend, American Special Forces carried out two terror raids in Africa.

In Tripoli, Libya, the Army's Delta Force captured Abu Anas al Libi. We've been trying to find him for 15 years for the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.

And in Somalia, SEAL Team 6 reportedly tried to nab a top commander of the Islamist group al Shabaab. They're responsible for the mall attack in Kenya. Details on exactly what happened in that operation are still developing.

So, this is a very interesting terror piece. The timing of it, some have been a little bit skeptical about this happening. Because some information that we have.

They knew about the whereabouts of these individuals, but what about the timing?

KILMEADE: What about the timing? I'm fascinated by the fact that we didn't knock on the door in Libya and say, excuse me, can we come in? There's a terror attack or a terrorist in your midst, like we did on Benghazi a year and a half ago, a month ago.

This time, we said, there's a guy inside, we're going to get him. And not only that, we're not going to kill him, we're going to get him, we're going to grab him. We're going to drug him and bring him on a ship. We might even question him.

That sounds like an old policy I used to hear that was condemned and was un-American. It made us look like a separate society, not the superpower which we are.

So now, what concerns me is we're going to stop interrogating him when the ship reaches New York City port. That's what's going to bother me. He belongs to Gitmo.

GUILFOYLE: And then we're going to hire the best lawyer and then we're going to have -- supposedly have violated his rights and we'll send him home with a care package or something like that from 1800 --

BECKEL: That's going to be the longest boat trip you ever saw.


KILMEADE: I hope so.

BECKEL: It's going to make Christopher Columbus --

KILMEADE: Don't you hope it's a long one? You want to see him questions?

GUILFOYLE: That ain't a love boat, if you know what I mean.

KILMEADE: The pocket -- by the way, how many al Libis do we got? We have like four al Libis. As soon as we capture one, we got another al Libi.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's like a terror tree.

KILMEADE: Yes, it's like terrorist/Libya. It's 1800 number to find out --

GUILFOYLE: But we can't still get the guys responsible for Benghazi. What's going on with this? Eric Bolling?


BECKEL: In Libya, it's really not a country. I mean, it's totally run by gangs. There's no sense of government to speak of.

In fact, I think they probably did get help from a few people in the government there. Remember, the president of Libya was brought in from Switzerland to take over. That country is an outlaw country. That's one of the reasons it's pretty hard to get some of these people.

I give them a lot of credit, though. I think it's a lot -- all the drone arguments, you know, I like drones, but if this works --

GUILFOYLE: OK, snatch and grab of a guy who has been there for how many years?

BOLLING: Go get them, go after them by all means necessary but President Obama --


PERINO: Maybe he has evolved. Maybe his position has evolved, which I'm glad.

GUILFOYLE: Especially when he's getting bad poll numbers.

PERINO: Redskins.

KILMEADE: Are you worried about this Somali operation? I have a lot of questions about that. I mean, SEAL Team 6 involved. It's got to be. It looks like they penetrated in there. The guy's not there, now there's some conflicting reports. Hopefully, we'll get the real story in an effort to not hurt somebody that are civilians there or not be able to fight your way out.

They had to bug out early because this guy wasn't there.

But there were other terrorists that we could have captured but in the risk for getting civilians, we backed out early.


KILMEADE: And they had to leave without their targets.

GUILFOYLE: It sounds like they were pushed in quickly without a lot of time to prepare. Like you said, the intel wasn't exactly as specific as it should have been. So, there was other people in there that was going to compromise the operation. They take heavy fire. They pull out.

And now what?

BECKEL: May I suggest Obama did this to get some political points?

GUILFOYLE: Ding, ding. The gentleman wins with the big elephant.

Dana, this is all you.

PERINO: No, she just said tease.

GUILFOYLE: I'm not listening.

PERINO: Fine. OK, look, I would say two things America doesn't forget. I would say terrorists around the world, do not mistake America's domestic problems for forgetting about this. Just two months ago, President Obama and President Bush were together in Tanzania and they visited that memorial. So, that was top of mind.

I would say I'm happy for these actions although I'm concerned that we are very reactive. These are after events. What -- I'm curious what the policy is to go forward to proactively prevent future terrorist attacks like the mall attack in Kenya.

And I think capturing these people and questioning them for the longest boat ride in history is the best way to do it.

KILMEADE: Yes, put them on the pinta or the Santa Maria.

GUILFOYLE: Cruise around the bay.

All right. That was really thoughtful --

PERINO: Aren't you glad I got a chance to talk?

GUILFOYLE: I'm glad we made time for it, because directly ahead, President Obama inserts himself into the middle of the debate over whether the Washington Redskins should change their name. But does he have his facts right? We're going to report and you can decide when we come back.


KILMEADE: All right. There are a lot of things that need changing right now in the nation's capital. But is the name of the Redskins need to change? President Obama thinks so. He just jumped into the controversial debate over that name.

Let's listen together.


OBAMA: If I were the owner of the team, and I knew that there was a name of my team, if it had a storied history, that was offending a sizable group of people, I'd think -- I'd think about changing. Native Americans feel pretty strongly about it. And I don't know whether our attachment to a particular name should override, you know, the real legitimate concerns that people have about these things.


KILMEADE: Let's tell the Braves and Blackhawks, the president wants your name to change.

Lanny Davis, a Democrat, an Obama supporter, is also the attorney for the Redskins and he fired back on a morning show called "FOX & FRIENDS".

BECKEL: What's that?


LANNY DAVIS, ATTORNEY FOR THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS: President Obama has better things to worry about, but he should look at the Chicago Blackhawks who won the Stanley Cup and he's never said a word.

He's unaware of the data. He's expressing an opinion. He happens to be wrong and not knowing about the data. If he knew about the data, I'm looking forward to him saying, you know, now that I know from him about the data, I favor the Washington Redskins because there's not a sizable group on my own criteria.


KILMEADE: Eric, there was a protest today at an NFL owners meeting by an Indian group, a Native American group, wanting the name change.

BOLLING: Lanny is a very good friend of mine. He also pointed out --

GUILFOYLE: He supports you, too?

BOLLING: He's a supporter of President Obama.

However, there's a 2004 study that polled Native Americans, 9 out of 10 said they're cool with the name. By the way, you bump that with the song that says hail to the Redskins. Hail. Salute. We respect you.


BOLLING: President Obama, listen, you want to close the ocean, go ahead. You want to make sure World War II veterans don't go to the memorial? That's fine. But don't mess with the NFL and don't shut down the interwebs.

GUILFOYLE: Haven't they had enough pain?

BECKEL: I lived in Washington for 30 years and we had this argument every single year. It probably does not help to have the president of the United States enter into it. There are protests by Indian groups every year at the Redskins headquarters. We have this debate. We go through it and nothing changes.

Better idea, think about something else to worry about. Not the name of the Washington Redskins.

KILMEADE: And Daniel Schneider is not going to change the name. He said flat out, as long as I own the team, it's not changing. I'm not giving in.

PERINO: And he's such a well-liked guy.


PERINO: The thing is if President Obama thinks that Redskins is offensive to people, you should hear what he thinks about Republicans. Holy cow.

I wonder if we would be having this conversation if it was red necks. We probably would not.

KILMEADE: Probably not.

GUILFOYLE: Now, you've done it, Dana.

KILMEADE: What about the Fighting Irish? I'm offended every day.

PERINO: No one cares about the red necks, do they?

GUILFOYLE: That sounds like Irish people just fight all day long.

KILMEADE: Exactly.

BECKEL: Because they're drunk all day long.

GUILFOYLE: You know, Bob, now you've offended just about everybody on the planet. Unbelievable.

KILMEADE: Peter King, he's a writer, not the congressman, is no longer call them the Redskins. Only the Washington football team. "Slate" magazine also, (INAUDIBLE) two legendary Redskins are thinking about pushing for a name change.

Does that change anyone's opinion? Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, no. I just think the name is the name. Keep it that way. I like it.

KILMEADE: Will the Braves have to change? The Cleveland Indians have to change it, the Blackhawks --


BOLLING: Hundreds of college football programs.

GUILFOYLE: The Tomahawks. Come on.

KILMEADE: The Giants offends Shaquille O'Neal.

BECKEL: Probably the most popular former Redskin by far.


BECKEL: Darrell Green. And he -- even with him getting in the middle of it, it won't change the numbers.

BOLLING: Not Joe Theismann.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's Joe Theismann because he's got some personal issues, but he's a great quarterback.


KILMEADE: All right. So the Redskins name stays by the power --

PERINO: I would wait until they have a really, really bad season.

KILMEADE: Like this year?

BECKEL: Like this year, yes.

GUILFOYLE: You mean like the giants are having? Oh, gosh.

KILMEADE: I am just shocked that the president factors himself into this. That factors himself into the professional --

PERINO: He could have taken a pass and he chose not to.


GUILFOYLE: What about a football metaphor?

KILMEADE: As a Giants fan, can't believe it's happening.

BOLLING: First place, two and three.

BECKEL: First place, two and three, amazing.

KILMEADE: All right, when we come back, a look at all the highlights from the past weekend. Only kidding.

Hey, straight ahead, there are new updates on the motorcycle mob attack in New York City, including the first interview with the biker accused of starting it all when "The Five" returns 16 minutes until the top of the hour.


BECKEL: An update on the biker mob attack in New York City last month.

Yesterday, one of the motorcyclists caught on video smashing the window of an SUV was in court. Reginald Chance flipped off reporters as he walked into the courtroom.

Turns out, he's had 21 prior arrests. Meanwhile, we're hearing for the first time from the 28-year-old biker accused of starting the bloody attack. Here's Christopher Cruz.


CHRISTOPHER CRUZ, BIKER: I think I feel responsible, but I don't feel -- I do feel bad for the family that got hurt. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, just turning into another lane. My intention was never to make him stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about what happens next?

CRUZ: Yes, I am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think you can win this case?

CRUZ: I don't know that.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, now he's crying? Please.

BECKEL: Yes, hey, Chris, buddy, read between the lines, OK. The --

GUILFOYLE: Bob, you are so clever sometimes.

BECKEL: I had to get around it because the producer said couldn't flip him the bird.

GUILFOYLE: Well, obviously.

BECKEL: Eric, do you think -- I understand there may have been a cop involved in this, too, this gang.

BOLLING: First of all, Cruz, you weren't trying to make a lane change. That video --

KILMEADE: Look over your left shoulder. That is perfect.

BOLLING: That's a lane change, yes, right.

Anyway, so here is the issue. We looked at the brain room, NYPD, tough job all the time. However, when you're off duty undercover cops have the responsibility if they see a crime to immediately report it. Uniform police have responsibility even off duty to get involved to take action. Neither one of those things happened.

So, a little tarnishing on the badge. They need to get it cleaned up quickly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but he's on modified duty, but that is shameful, it is conduct unbecoming. I would come down on him like a ton of brick. That is not acceptable. Commissioner will not appreciate that kind of behavior.

KILMEADE: What about the revelation, Dana, that they came to the passenger's side where the wife was with the kid and tried to pry that door open.

PERINO: It's so frightening.

Do you remember last week when we were talking about three strikes and you're outlaw in California and there were a few people who said we should get rid of it and I said I don't know, maybe we should. This is a perfect example of why three strikes and you're out was actually instituted in the first place because you had repeat offenders like this who eventually cause so much harm.

They're calling Lien, the driver, the victim. I actually think the wife and the child are just as much victims in this. I don't know what sort of harm they will have psychologically for a long time. But they were victims of this, too.

BECKEL: You know, these guys have been driving up and down the west side highway for years, this gang. And there is one very simple thing to do. You take a spike belt and run it across the West Side Highway as they're coming down, and that will take care of it.

PERINO: What about the other drivers?

BECKEL: This one guy was selling drugs outside of a high school in Brooklyn. They went to his apartment. They found guns and drugs in his apartment and he still walked. Now, come on, I mean, I'm a liberal on a lot of things, but not on something like that.

The guy should not have walked. He should be in jail, or he should have his motorcycle spiked.

KILMEADE: But now they have the paralyzed guy talking and Gloria Allred making him a sympathetic figure.

GUILFOYLE: Representing him.

KILMEADE: So, now, this is not going to be any lay up for the driver for the Land Rover.

BECKEL: Gloria Allred only got two reasons for doing this. Either she wants the money or she wants --

GUILFOYLE: No, don't say that.

PERINO: I like Kimberly's answer that if she were representing the defendant who flipped the bird to the courtroom, what would you have done to him in front of the judge?

GUILFOYLE: Swift kick under the table. See what happens if --


KILMEADE: He made a joke and he got put 60 days in jail.

BECKEL: Yes, well, not enough --

GUILFOYLE: I don't know why Gloria is representing these guys.

BECKEL: You had a rough today. So, in respect to that, I'm going to say "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you, gentleman Bob.


BOLLING: All righty. Time for "One More Thing". Five people, four minutes.

Dana's first.

PERINO: OK. We mentioned earlier that "The Five" is going to be on the road tomorrow. We're going to Washington, D.C. Why you asked. Well, there is a special reason.

We're going to go down. We're going to do the show at 3:00. It won't be live. But anyway, it will be up-to-date.

We're going because tomorrow night there is a very special dinner in honor of Bob, and it is being given by Caron Treatment Center and he's getting the alumni award for all of his hard work of being sober all of these years. And we felt like it was really important for the show to be there to support him. There is a very generous benefactor that got the table for us and we're excited to be there for you, Bob, tomorrow night.

BOLLING: Yes, we wouldn't miss it for the world.

GUILFOYLE: Your years of advocacy and the impact you've had on other people's lives.

BOLLING: You're one more thing?

BECKEL: It's nice for you to come.

My one more thing is for all the heat that federal workers often take around the country, I want to point out that there are a lot of them working today, they will get paid eventually. It's true. But they could stay home and not get paid.

But those not working, air traffic controller, federal courts, Federal Reserve, U.S. Postal Service, those are the part of the government, NASA, military personnel, prisons remain open, trademark office, on and on and on. You'd be saluted, you're good people, you work hard, you serve this country and you serve this country well. And I congratulate you.

BOLLING: And you will be paid.

All right. So, there is a big debate going on in Washington. President Obama -- whether or not to give him another trillion dollars of our money. But let's refresh everyone's member about President Obama and his ideas of debt ceiling. Watch.


OBAMA: The way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt. That's irresponsible. It's unpatriotic.


BOLLING: Yes, one more thing, from March 16th, 2006, we went back in the archives, this is President Obama on the Senate floor -- I'm sorry, Senator Barack Obama on the Senate floor.

Quote, "The fact we're here take to debate raising America's get limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means the buck stops here. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."

So what is it, President Obama?

BECKEL: Do you want to bet any Republican that's going to be nominee in 2016 will be against the debt limit?

BOLLING: Brian Kilmeade is --

KILMEADE: All right. So, here we go -- Condoleezza Rice in the eye of the storm because she was named to the college football playoff committee, that's going to start having a college playoff, the final four in 2014. b When her name was brought up and she's a member of the panel and she said yes, this is what David Pollak of ESPN said. Listen.


DAVID POLLAK, ESPN: I want people on this committee, guys that can --


POLLAK: Yes, that are around football, that can tell you different teams on tape, not on paper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, no woman belongs on the committee is that correct what you said?


PERINO: Does that mean they don't belong on the sidelines doing all the reporting?

KILMEADE: Yes, he believes and a lot of people are offended by women don't belong on that committee. She's very schooled in football.


GUILFOYLE: She knows more than he does.

BOLLING: K.G., let's get it --

GUILFOYLE: I have a happy story about a machete wielding clerk. This cheers my day up. Take a look at this.

So, this guy goes into rob this deli, right? He actually fires a shot nearly shoots the clerk, goes into the wall. The guy is like you want to try me out? Kind of like Raiders of the Lost Arc, you know, Harrison Ford, whips out the machete. This goes to get car (INAUDIBLE) like Thanksgiving. The guy runs away crying for his mama. That's it.

KILMEADE: And the play by play.

BOLLING: Very good. That was awesome.

All right. We're going to have to leave it there. That's it for us tonight.

Don't forget to catch us on the debut of the "Kelly File" tonight. Set your DVRs for tomorrow. "The Five" is in Washington, D.C.

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The Five, hosted by Eric Bolling, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Greg Gutfeld, Dana Perino, Juan Williams, and Andrea Tantaros, airs on Weekdays at 5PM ET on Fox News Channel.