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Do Democrats want to keep partial government shutdown going?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 4, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Bob -- excuse me, Bob. We have a show. We're live.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Oh, we are?

TANTAROS: Hello, everyone. I'm Andrea Tantaros, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Brian Kilmeade.

It's 5:00 in New York City and this is "THE FIVE".

(MUSIC)

TANTAROS: Well, if you listened to President Obama and his allies, you might think they're angry about the government shutdown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Take a vote, stop this farce, and end the shutdown right now.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Republicans put legislation on the floor that was intended to shut down government. For them, that's a victory, because they're anti-government ideologues.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: We have a simple message for Speaker Boehner: let the House stop those irresponsible, reckless games and just reopen the government.

OBAMA: So, pass a budget, end the government shutdown. Pay our bills. Prevent an economic shutdown. Just vote and end the shutdown and you should do it today, so we can get back to growing this economy, creating jobs and strengthening our middle class.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

TANTAROS: But secretly, some Democrats are happy about it because they're benefiting politically.

Listen to Republican Congressman Devin Nunes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEVIN NUNES (R), CALIFORNIA: The Democrats are giddy about this behind closed doors. I mean, they think this is going to give Pelosi back the gavel. They're very cocky. They're very confident. I assume they're just looking at polling information.

And they want to continue down this. They want to keep the government shut down as long as they can. And they're encouraging our folks to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: But this is even worse. In a stunning admission from the Obama administration, one senior official told "The Wall Street Journal," quote, "We are winning. It doesn't really matter to us how long the shutdown lasts because what matters is the end result."

Busted.

Bob Beckel, what do you have to say for yourselves and your party?

BECKEL: First of all, let me just say that the source of the Democrats being in favor of this is some right wing Republican, that's how we lead our story here? That's the whole block?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: What are you talking about? No, no, "Wall Street Journal" from a White House --

BECKEL: No, no, I'm talking about that guy, Nunes, whatever his name is.

BOLLING: Devin Nunes was the setup --

BECKEL: Oh, I see, leaks --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Thank you. You should have better producers.

BOLLING: Here's the point --

BECKEL: Excuse me, you just interrupted my block here.

BOLLING: It's because you were completely wrong. Go ahead.

BECKEL: I would not have started that --

BRIAN KILMEADE, CO-HOST: Let's do it again.

BECKEL: Now, they have one senior official who said that and I'm sure they did. I'm sure "The Wall Street Journal" reported right. But that does not mean all Democrats feel that way. There's a lot Democrats today who are upset because women, infant and children are not getting their formula today. National parks are not open. A lot of things are happening.

TANTAROS: Whoa, whoa, whoa. In our own green room, you have admitted that Democrats want this for political reasons. You had said that.

BECKEL: I have not said that.

TANTAROS: Yes, you have.

BECKEL: You say is it good politics. Sure, it's good politics.

TANTAROS: There we have it.

BECKEL: If you ask us, do we want to have a vote? The Democrats would get the government back and open right now.

TANTAROS: Eric?

BOLLING: It's not fair to people watching right now. Which women, infants and children aren't getting their formula, Bob?

BECKEL: The WIC program is closed.

BOLLING: It's not closed.

BECKEL: Oh, really?

BOLLING: There's $100 million of surplus in the WIC.

BECKEL: Who's delivering it?

BOLLING: At some point, it may run out of money and they'll find a way to fund it. Look --

BECKEL: Oh, I see --

BOLLING: The Democrats got caught today with their pants down. Everyone's trying to figure out why President Obama's been so cocky, all these speeches he's making. He's very arrogant. He's very straight -- he's very in your face.

Yes, this is the Republicans. You know why? Because he feels this is on the Republicans.

But guess what? It may have been, but the longer it lasts, President Obama's legacy is at risk here. If he goes, if this goes into the debt ceiling, which I think it will. And people -- and there's some sort of, you know, maneuvering going back and forth, this is going to turn into a Democratic nightmare.

BECKEL: You're basing that on some right-wing Republican and a "Wall Street Journal" report.

BOLLING: President Obama's government that can't work. No, it has nothing to do --

KILMEADE: Bob, "The Wall Street Journal," high ranking, White House official --

BECKEL: Ooh, ooh!

KILMEADE: Unless you think "The Wall Street Journal" made it up.

BECKEL: I don't think they made it up. One administration source? One?

KILMEADE: One high ranking administration official says - -

BECKEL: That speaks for --

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: -- said that this is working towards them.

Let's go to David Plouffe. David Plouffe says he thinks they gave way too much in 2011 and the only way this would be resolved is when the Republicans relent. That is pretty much the strategy we're seeing.

BECKEL: That's true.

TANTAROS: And, Dana, earlier in the week, Bob Woodward, veteran journalist, said exactly what Eric said, the longer this goes on, this is going to fall directly on the president's shoulders. And I do think the first couple of days they were winning the debate. But this is slowly backfiring.

And the more information that comes out shows Republicans have passed bills to fund all of these programs that Bob claims aren't being funded. So, there's a credibility issue as well.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I don't think Obama's too worried the Republicans are going to overtake him and all of a sudden, they're going to out smelling like roses at the end of this.

I do think that this open mic moment that they tend to have --

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: I can't help it. Bill O'Reilly (INAUDIBLE) she was baiting you again.

KILMEADE: I keep trying to talk to him. He can't hear me, can he?

PERINO: OK. Well, what I'm trying to say is they always get caught saying what they really believe on background quotes in major papers. Remember when the national security adviser, senior administration official, described President Obama's foreign policy as leading from behind? They try to backtrack and say, no, we didn't mean that. When they do background interviews, it was during the Syria piece. That was the other one.

That's the third one I was looking for. I was like Rick Perry all day. I had two and I knew there was a third.

I also think there is a way that this could get solved a little more quickly. There was a question today, whether or not Republicans and Democrats agree that federal employees should get back pay whenever this all gets settled. I think I would -- if I were a Republican, I would introduce an amendment that says I believe that all federal employees should get back pay except for political appointees and also anyone that has a -- at a grade GS-13, or 14, or senior executive service. That's all the top level people. This would get solved much more quickly.

TANTAROS: Now, John Boehner was pretty fired up today. He said this is not a game and had some pretty harsh words for President Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I was at the White House the other night listening to the president some 20 times explain to me why he wasn't going to negotiate. I sat there and listened to the majority leader in the United States Senate describe to me that he's not going to talk until we surrender.

And then, this morning, "The Wall Street Journal" and it says, well, we don't care how long this lasts because we're winning.

This isn't some damn game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TANTAROS: Well, it's not some damn game.

So, Bob, if you care about all of these programs, women and children, why wouldn't you pass these Republican bills that have come out of the House so that these programs are funded?

BECKEL: Seventeen times, 17 times the government has closed down because they didn't do a continuing resolution. Never once, never once, did they try to hold it hostage to a major piece of legislation. The fact that the Republicans --

BOLLING: You do this all the time. You say something that is completely false --

BECKEL: And you interrupt me all the time.

BOLLING: What do you mean 17? Why did they shut down, Bob?

BECKEL: I assume they had a disagreement.

BOLLING: About what?

BECKEL: I don't know.

BOLLING: Of course you don't know. It's always over something.

BECKEL: Yes, but the difference was they didn't have -- they didn't put -- attach something to the continuing resolution that was a major piece of law and try to change it. Never once.

That's what I said. If you can come up with one, then come up with one.

BOLLING: All 17 a political football in the middle and they were fighting over it, whether it's Obamacare --

BECKEL: Show me one of those that finally passed?

BOLLING: Really, Bob? Really? What do you think it was about? They didn't like each other --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You know what they did? They negotiated a deal. Unlike these Republicans, these right-wing crowd that you go around.

KILMEADE: Can we talk about a deal real quick? Here's the deal. Regardless of how we got here, I saw you on Monday, Eric. I was in the Krauthammer camp on Monday, that this is a bad strategy. They didn't think it out. Senator Cruz rode it.

I don't think Rand Paul was even going along with it, even indicated the other day.

Wow, I don't care how we got here. Let's figure out how to get out of here.

Having said all that, I think President Obama's overplayed his hand. I want to hear tactically the chess move that came across that was available today. That is, that John Boehner has let moderates know that he will not default on our debt. Essentially saying, the next fight, I'm not going to have it moderates. Stay in line, I'm not going to have it.

Who benefits from him not fighting on something we thought he should have been fighting on all along and not this one? So, is he going to look like the bigger man? Is it beginning to reverse, this glacier beginning to reverse on Democrats?

BECKEL: It was the best thing that he said all along. He's right.

KILMEADE: For the country or for Republicans?

BECKEL: Well, no, for both I think. What he said, he's going to allow the moderates to join the Democrats to let the debt ceiling rise. And they will have a budget in that, too, by the way. What's going to happen, same thing that happens all the time: reasonable Republicans get along -- combined with Democrats and override these right wing nuts.

BOLLING: OK.

TANTAROS: I got to get -- can I get Dana in here?

BOLLING: I do, but off the top of my head, I could be completely wrong. Medicare Part D, I think, that may have been attached somehow to one of these fights. Also, funding the Iraq war may have been attached by the Democrats both times to some of these funding fights. And I want to -- after Dana, I definitely want to talk --

PERINO: Go ahead.

TANTAROS: So, Ted Cruz is in the middle of this, Dana, and he's in the middle of the Republican Party. There was a closed door meeting yesterday, some members of Congress, according to "The New York Times," had some harsh words for him. But Ted Cruz is insisting he's not backing down. He took to the House, or I should say the Senate floor and he blamed this entire thing on Harry Reid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: We are in a shutdown because President Obama and the majority leader of this body want a shutdown, because they believe it is in the partisan interest of their party to have a shutdown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: How does a guy like this --

TANTAROS: You think that most people believe that?

PERINO: I think most people are just sick of the whole thing. And that they don't think this is in particular about any one person. It's not about President Obama. Not about Ted Cruz. They look at this.

I'm just trying to put myself in America's shoes, looking back at Washington, and saying, my goodness what we want is for Washington to run more like a business. You don't see any business where this actually happens. They knew this was coming for a long time.

I think that Obama is quite vulnerable. If you look at the Gallup poll out today, he has an approval rating of 41 percent. I don't think he'll get -- it will be difficult once you get down into those lower 40s, it's harder to pull up out of that. This fight is certainly not going to help.

BECKEL: Don't you find it amazing that the guy responsible for this thing not getting through would sit there and actually have the guts to say --

TANTAROS: But it's true.

BOLLING: Hold on. The guts to say what he promised to the people who elected him, who put him in office --

BECKEL: To stop the government. Is that what he said, campaigned on that?

BOLLING: No, he was elected, as were 80 members of the House, as were Rand Paul and Mike Lee --

BECKEL: In shutting down the government?

BOLLING: To stand up to government. To stand up to liberals and, frankly, establishment bigger government Republicans who run amok in D.C., to make change for smaller government. By the way, Bob, who says the Democrats, (a), are winning it? And number two, who says that a moderate Republican -- I don't think you the answers -- why would we want more moderate Republicans? It's not working.

BECKEL: Because you might actually get something done.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: And the Republicans may never win another presidency.

BECKEL: Why don't you ask all the people who voted for those Tea Party people.

TANTAROS: Brian, I do think you were right about the premise that most people out there I think blame, one, both parties. I think this is starting to backfire on the Democrats.

There was one lesson that came out of this, and I think it's that when the World War II Memorial, where all the things that were supposed to happen didn't happen, people learned one important lesson. That is, my life is OK without the government.

The left were assuming people would say, without the government, my life would come to an end. And it hasn't happened.

KILMEADE: That's true. I agree. I will say this. You know, there's people like the Secret Service. We know all these people. They haven't gotten paid.

So they're furloughed. Like, they're guarding high ranking officials and they're basically getting an IOU check. I think that's a problem.

Number two is what I think is -- my point is, yours is well taken, 800,000 people in a country this size, not much of a difference in the big picture. But here's the big story -- when you have two sides going at it like this, they started here on Monday. The only thing changing was the number of proposals Republicans offered.

Harry Reid got angrier. The president got more direct. He's back out on the campaign trail. He thinks he's fighting Mitt Romney.

After a while, it's like, wait, we're on two different planets here. The other one's saying I think I'm winning because I'm going to stay away from him until the polls make me come back.

BECKEL: Can you offer me one scintilla of evidence that you just said that this has backfired to the Democrats, besides your own point of view?

KILMEADE: How about the FOX News poll --

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: Well, if you let me answer, hang on a second.

BECKEL: Please, please?

TANTAROS: We got a poll. New FOX News poll shows 80 percent, 88 percent, of respondents said that what's happening in the country today, the respondents say, government is in charge of the people. So, Bob, big government --

BECKEL: What the hell does that have to do with the closing of the government?

TANTAROS: Because if you look at the polls you were hoping Republicans would be blamed for this thing. They're not across the board.

BECKEL: Why don't you look at the poll that asks the question specifically?

TANTAROS: Show me one.

BECKEL: There are an overwhelming number of polls.

BOLLING: Stop, listen, in the same exact poll, the FOX News poll, if I'm not mistaken, the number is 46-46.

TANTAROS: That's right, they blame both.

BOLLING: That 46 percent believe it's the Republicans, 46 percent believe it's the Democrats.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: Show me a poll that overwhelmingly blames Republicans for all of this. I'm not talking about a couple of points --

BECKEL: "The Washington Post" poll over the weekend, right up until Monday, it was a good nine points.

PERINO: Yes, but Monday, that's a whole different world. Monday was right before the shutdown. Friday, after four days of the shutdown, I think there could have been a shift.

We'll have to see what the polls say on Sunday.

BECKEL: We picked it up with the FOX poll, maybe we're the only ones who could pick it up.

PERINO: I'm looking at the Gallup poll today with President Obama down to 41 percent.

BECKEL: Yes, but that is -- these are apples and oranges. He's down 41 percent, I agree.

PERINO: That's where I think we can disagree. I think it's fruit salad. It's all mixed in.

KILMEADE: Which is back to where I started with the Wiggles today. They have a song about fruit salad.

TANTAROS: I know it. Fruit salad, yummy, yummy --

KILMEADE: Stay in my head all day.

TANTAROS: I know. It is the --

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: When you open up the day with four men in unitards, you're on the way up.

TANTAROS: Only four?

PERINO: Bob does that every morning.

KILMEADE: Oh, there's a woman. Yes, that is. That's interesting story. But they're super friends.

TANTAROS: We really are versatile here on "THE FIVE".

All right, up next, we know now a lot more about the female driver shot and killed by Capitol police yesterday after a high speed chase that started at the White House. New information about the suspect, Miriam Carey, and what may have caused her to snap. That's up next.

And later, it's Facebook Friday. So, it's so your chance to ask us anything you'd like. Well, not anything.

Send in your questions now on Facebook.com/TheFiveFNC.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: There are new details about the woman behind that car yesterday that smashed into a barricade outside the White House, and led police on a high-speed chase.

It was 34-year-old Miriam Carey. She was shot dead by police. She has been identified as a dental hygienist. She lived in Stamford, Connecticut, and reportedly had a history of mental problems. Her mother believes that she suffered from postpartum depression.

A federal law enforcement official said today that Carey believed President Obama was communicating with her.

One of the questions about this, Brian, has been -- what were the officers supposed to do to determine whether or not she was a bigger threat or had explosives in the car? Did they make a good or a bad decision?

KILMEADE: A great decision. And the thing is, to hit the White House, to go for the congressional building. This is the nerve center of the country, a place that was just hit by planes. People like, oh, we shouldn't shot the planes. Well, they're going for White House.

Now, you have a woman -- I know it's just a car and I know you have plenty of law enforcement there. But you have no choice.

This is, to me, I haven't talked to Ray Kelly yet or Bill Bratton, two heralded police chiefs, but to me, it's a lot different than going into our house or your house. You're going for the White House. So, you have no idea if this is part of a larger plot. The person is not listening. You've got to take them out. Absolutely.

PERINO: Eric, what do you think about the police -- the Capitol Hill police decision to use that force? You think it was appropriate, over- handed, too much or just right?

BOLLING: Well, yesterday we were kind of -- I was kind of speculating. She panicked and took off.

But I've read some accounts they had the kill shot right away and they realized there was an 18-month-old in the car and they held back, and they waited.

Now, if I agree with Brian and I kind of do, they probably should have taken it the first type. They held back. She got away. She went up some distance, 10 blocks or so, and they killed her there. But if you're going to attack the White House, you got to bring them down.

PERINO: Bob, do you have a different point of view because yesterday, this story was unfolding while we were on air yesterday. We didn't really know the facts.

Given what you know now, what do you --

BECKEL: Well, I don't know if I do know all the facts. I understand some people say that the one was out of the car running and she was shot. Now, if that's the case, then it is outrageous. If she was in the car, then I think it was legitimate. If she, in fact, got out of the car, was running away from the police, and she was shot down, without a gun, then think somebody's got some explaining to do.

PERINO: Andrea, any thoughts on this part of that story?

TANTAROS: Yes, this is -- this is really, really sad. I don't think we know all the details. I mean, on one hand, like Bob said, if she is running and she was out of the car, a lot of people have said, well, why wouldn't they have captured her? Why didn't they shoot the tires? Do they really have to kill her?

Then the other side of me says, trust these police officers. I wasn't there. They're trained to do their job. And, again, if she's getting close to the White House, they're thinking, are more casualties going to do, are more police officers going to die?

And who knows nowadays? I mean, even though it was a woman, which I heard a couple of women (INAUDIBLE), but it was a woman.

KILMEADE: Yes.

TANTAROS: She could have been laced with explosives.

KILMEADE: (INAUDIBLE) the Israelis.

TANTAROS: Exactly.

PERINO: One of the -- so her mother came out today and she said she believed that Miriam Casey suffered from post par it up postpartum depression. And Dr. Besser on ABC News talked about that on his show. Do you have that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RICHARD BESSER, ABC NEWS: Women will have mood changes after they have a baby. But 10 percent of women will have postpartum depression in the first year. And it's typical things you see with depression -- lack of interest in the world, trouble sleeping with appetite.

With postpartum depression, you'll have trouble sleeping when the baby sleeps. There may be lack of enjoyment of being a new mom. You may have guilt about not being a good mother, anxiety something bad can happen to your baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, we don't know. You know, this is what her mother said. I guess we'll find out more. But there was also reports that she suffered from some sort of history of mental illness.

So, here we are again, Brian, talking about mental illness and a tragedy involved.

KILMEADE: Right.

PERINO: It was just in the last year, we've had so many of these. And yet, we have yet to find some sort of public policy. I'm not blaming Democrats or Republicans. I'm saying as a society, what are we going to do about the mental --

KILMEADE: Great point. If you look at the Aurora shooter, if you look what happened to Navy shipyard, you look at the other shooter, that shot Gabby Giffords, they have voices. You keep hearing about these voices in their head.

You watch that special on "60 Minutes" when they talk about the fact we are dealing with our mentally ill and putting them in jail because it's no longer the right way to do to put them in institutions.

So, now, they're in jail. So we have an inordinate amount of people in jail or left alone because whether the health care system or something else doesn't allow them to be taken, and because of the stigma that's out there.

TANTAROS: What about families? I mean, the father of her child, who was unfortunately in the car with her that day, has tried to get custody of the child and has been very concerned about her health and has voiced it. So you're wondering in these situations where the family members are.

Because I'll tell you what, if my family thought I was unstable or thought I was schizophrenic and taking medication, let's assume that they knew, and some guy was saying she's not fit to have this kid -- at what point do people jump in?

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: If you're a guy, it's almost impossible. I'm telling you.

TANTAROS: The courts are not fair to men. That's for sure.

PERINO: Eric --

BOLLING: Can I just do this? The Capitol Hill police did a fantastic job. You know why? Because there's an 18-month old that wasn't hurt.

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: And that kid could have been people in the crossfire.

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: A lot of things could have happened, and no one else got hurt. There's a high speed chase through the streets, a very busy street of the capital. And thank God that the only --

KILMEADE: How much busier if there was no shutdown?

PERINO: Oh, Brian.

KILMEADE: I'm being honest. Those roads were wide open because there was no shutdown.

PERINO: I don't think --

BECKEL: There you go. There's another --

KILMEADE: I'm not blaming. I'm point out. You ask James Rosen how long it takes him to get to work right now. He could run in the streets and scream his name and no one even answers.

PERINO: And no one would notice.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I want to get out of here, but we have a great block coming up. Eric's got a stack of your questions from our Facebook page which is, by the way, Facebook.com/TheFiveFNC.

Our Facebook free-for-all is up next.

(COMMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right. Time for our Facebook free-for-all.

Thanks to everyone who sent questions in our page, Facebook.com/TheFiveFNC. As always, we've got a huge response.

We haven't seen these questions. So, here it goes.

The first one for Andrea. Cheri M. asks, what do you like to do open your days off? Reading, cooking movies, sports, et cetera?

TANTAROS: Sleep and drink martinis.

KILMEADE: Really?

TANTAROS: Really.

BOLLING: I mean, on a day off, you'll sleep --

TANTAROS: I like to go to the gym. Catch up on errands. Like to have some wine, a martini, rest.

BECKEL: Really, that's a good day.

TANTAROS: What would you like me to say, Bob? Climb a mountain. Deworm orphans.

BECKEL: No, think it's a great day.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: All righty. Next one's for Brian.

Brian, Steve F., not Steve Doocy, Steve F. asks, what's your favorite genre of music?

KILMEADE: Wow, I would say rock and roll from the '80s. I like, in terms of bands, U2 and Sting. I never really graduated. I guess Coldplay would be my modern new band. I'm also going around in neighborhoods listening garage bands, seeing if I like any --

BOLLING: Nice.

KILMEADE: I'll drive through your neighborhoods just with my windows down.

BOLLING: Dana, country?

PERINO: Definitely.

BOLLING: Bob, you?

BECKEL: Anything from '60 -- actually, the Stones is back.

KILMEADE: I'm beginning to like country. I'm absolutely beginning to like country more and more. They're the nicest people in the world.

BOLLING: They are.

KILMEADE: And the more I get --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Talented.

BOLLING: You like a lot of genres.

TANTAROS: A lot of genres, easy listening, '80s, rock. I like it all.

KILMEADE: How come everybody got my question?

BOLLING: Me, too.

KILMEADE: Everyone got to answer my question?

TANTAROS: Because no one wants to know what you do on the weekend.

BOLLING: My question from Travis N. asks, if you could trade places for a day, one day, huh, with any rock musician in their prime, living or dead, who would it be? This is easy.

KILMEADE: Who's question is this?

BOLLING: Mine.

PERINO: Steve Perry.

TANTAROS: Tommy Lee.

BOLLING: Close. Tommy Lee --

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Not specifically the day you're thinking --

PERINO: Or I just which day --

BOLLING: Exactly.

KILMEADE: All right, I would just say, I would just worry about Mick Jagger because for a while he was very close to David Bowie.

PERINO: Yes, do you get to pick the day?

KILMEADE: Oh, just today. OK.

BOLLING: How about you?

PERINO: If I could be a rock star?

KILMEADE: Any musician.

PERINO: Hmm. I don't know. Carrie Underwood. For a day.

BOLLING: Very good.

Bob?

BECKEL: Willie Nelson.

(CROSSTALK)

TANTAROS: I would like to be Tommy Lee myself if I were a guy.

BOLLING: Dana usually looks over my shoulder and cheats. So, I'm not going to let her read this one.

Dana, the crew of the Africa Mercy wants to know when Dana and Peter will be back aboard? We enjoyed having them and would welcome them back anytime.

That's from Lincoln Folkers?

PERINO: Well, you know what -- oh, yes, he's from Colorado, from Grand Junction, Colorado, and he's on the crew Mercy Ship, with his wife and his two kids. Well, you know, Congo is just around the corner. So, we'll be able to stop by often. No, I'm kidding. We won't be able to come by for a while.

But we keep in touch. I saw some of the patients that have been coming from the up country down to the ship. These doctors and nurses continue to do really amazing work. Amazing work. And they do not waste a dollar, Eric.

KILMEADE: Excuse me for not knowing, where is the ship now?

PERINO: In Congo, Pointe Noire, Congo.

KILMEADE: It just stays there?

PERINO: Yes, for 10 months.

BOLLING: Great stuff. Great trip, Dana. That was awesome that you did.

For Bob, Janet S. asks Bob, what was your first job?

He's still looking for it.

What was your first political job? Your first job?

BECKEL: My first job was a garbage truck in Connecticut, picking up the garbage early in the morning. Usually my own garbage left other from the night before.

And my first political job was a candidate for Congress in the second congressional district of Connecticut, where we went down to a resounding defeat.

PERINO: And that became a theme?

KILMEADE: Why didn't you ever run, Bob? What didn't you ever become --

BECKEL: They actually asked me to run for Congress and if they ever opened up my closet, they sound like the Boston pop at the Fourth of July.

PERINO: But do you think you could get elected now?

BOLLING: Yes, it doesn't matter anymore.

BECKEL: I know I could not get elected now, probably, yes. No, I don't think I could get elected now because there's not a liberal enough district.

TANTAROS: Let's draft Bob.

BECKEL: No, no. Let's start with Gutfeld. We lost that already.

BOLLING: Anyone else, first job, quick?

KILMEADE: My first job, I was washing dishes. It was at a hotel. It was really prestigious, met a lot of people and I smell terrible.

BOLLING: All right. Dana?

PERINO: A lot of baby-sitting, first job.

TANTAROS: Hostess, my parent's restaurant.

BOLLING: All right. This one's first. First one for all of us. Linda H. asks, "I would like to know what each of you have for a hobby." We'll take it around the table -- Ands.

TANTAROS: Hmm. Drinking martinis. I don't know. I like to ride my bike at the beach.

BOLLING: Very nice. Bob.

(LAUGHTER)

TANTAROS: I'm doing my hobby. Politics is my hobby. Bob, what do you --

BECKEL: Not you. I wasn't laughing at. I was laughing at myself for my hobby.

BOLLING: What is it?

BECKEL: Never mind.

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: Believe it or not, I like to pencil sketch.

(LAUGHTER)

KILMEADE: That is not true.

BECKEL: It is too true. I do.

KILMEADE: Do you have evidence?

BECKEL: Yes, I could give you my sketch pad.

KILMEADE: By the end of the show. Just start sketching a little --

BOLLING: My hobby, running.

PERINO: That's a hobby? Is that -- exercise and hobby, is that the same thing?

BOLLING: Well, if that's --

PERINO: Hobby outside of exercise? You have one?

BOLLING: Outside of exercise? I spend a lot of time with my son. Does that count?

PERINO: No.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I could say I walk my dog but I have to walk my dog. That's not really a hobby. I like to go on the conservative Web sites. Cut and paste articles and send them around to all of you.

BOLLING: Quickly?

KILMEADE: I would say if I had to have a hobby, I kind of stopped doing it. I used to collect headlines. I couldn't wait for something big to happen and I would cut it out.

TANTAROS: I collect shoes.

KILMEADE: You collect shoes? You just remember that? All right.

BOLLING: All right. We're going to leave it right there.

Next on "THE FIVE": Alex Rodriguez isn't going down without a fight. A- Rod now suing the MLB for accusing him of doing steroids. By the way, who cares if he does steroids? That's next.

PERINO: You're going to want to know what I have to say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KILMEADE: All right. MLB superstar, admitted performance-enhancing user, Alex Rodriguez -- yes, he is suing Major League Baseball over his 211-game suspension. He says it's a result of a witch-hunt. Does A-Rod have a leg to stand on? He isn't exactly known for telling the truth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

INTERVIEWER: For the record, have you ever used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance enhancing substance?

ALEX RODRIGUEZ, MLB PLAYER: No.

INTERVIEWER: Have you ever been tempted to use any of those things?

RODRIGUEZ: No.

I did take a banned substance. And, you know, for that I'm very sorry, and deeply regretful.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

KILMEADE: And when I see Katie Couric, I'll apologize.

In a statement, the MLB denies the allegations and calls the lawsuit against them a desperate attempt to go around the confidentiality agreement of the league's drug agreement with the players association. So, let's talk about this.

This is the first time, Eric, in the history of baseball that a player is suing the game. He's in a union. They're going through the arbitration process. He's stepping out and suing the game.

BOLLING: Right, see how foolish this all is? This is all a joke.

KILMEADE: Why?

BOLLING: What percent -- be honest, what percentage of players do you think are using --

KILMEADE: It's less than before.

BOLLING: Give me a number.

KILMEADE: I don't know.

BOLLING: Twenty percent?

KILMEADE: I don't know.

BOLLING: The point is, if 20 percent of the league -- that's just baseball, but are using PEDs, make them legal.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: But, Eric, it's clearly cheating. And that's what --

BOLLING: Why don't they go after other 500 --

KILMEADE: That's a great question. He got a suspension. Out of everybody that was suspended, he goes through the arbitration process. And he decides that's not good enough, because he's about to lose.

I'm suing baseball for going after me, Andrea. You can't just go out of the rules, saying the unions and protecting me.

TANTAROS: On one hand, I'm not comfortable defending A-Rod, but he was suspended for 211 games. Other players like Aaron Braun were suspended for 65 games.

OK. So, what do we know about him? He's accused of purchasing PEDs, trying to get other players to go to Biogenesis, attempting to tamper with the investigation by buying files. That's on one side.

Then you got Selig on the other -- who, by the way, presided over this whole era of steroids, turned the other cheek. Let Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire all those guys juice up and hit home runs in the home run derby just to get the eyes back on baseball and now, he's supposed to clean it up? Yes, right.

KILMEADE: Well, he's done a very good job cleaning it up, I hate to tell you. And Jose Canseco deserves a lot of credit. And Congress has done a great job because they allow this -- they put the pressure on the union, and they said, you're not dealing with the commissioner, you're dealing with me, right now -- and that brought the union to table. And now that Bud Selig could actually do his job.

Now, Bob, I want you to weigh in, he says that A-Rod's suing because Major League Baseball paid for this guy who owns Biogenesis to be a witness and they paid to get the evidence against him.

BECKEL: I hope they did. I mean, it seems to be biogenesis has been around a lot of this scandal around I don't believe 25 percent for a second. I think maybe 5 percent, maybe 8 percent. But that's not the point. If you have to get this stuff and you can't get it any other way, if you got to buy it, buy it.

KILMEADE: Exactly. And, you have to go outside the theme. Dana, what about integrity? Even if he ends up winning the lawsuit, because Joe Tacopina is a great lawyer and that's his lawyer, we all know he cheated.

PERINO: I do think there are just way too many lawyers.

KILMEADE: In the world?

PERINO: Yes.

KILMEADE: OK.

PERINO: And certainly in sports and entertainment and things go on and on and they come up with cockamamie schemes and I don't really know anything about baseball.

KILMEADE: Right. But you're saying --

PERINO: So, I'm looking at you to help me, save me, throw me a lifeline.

KILMEADE: Here we go. Roger Clemens, I think he's a great guy but he got nailed. Barry Bonds, not a great guy. I don't care what the court says. He's not the home run champion.

And, lastly, Alex Rodriguez is a guy -- you can put O.J. into that thing. Might have been found innocent. Does anyone think he's innocent?

If A-Rod had to go outside baseball, he's doing it because he knows he's going to lose inside baseball.

TANTAROS: If he's found guilty, can the Phillies get the World Series ring back that the Yankees stole from them because he was juicing?

KILMEADE: No, it's a long way to go back. And Barry Bonds and --

TANTAROS: Just asking, just asking --

PERINO: Pandora's baseball.

TANTAROS: OK, we've come to a halt. I think we've got to go. Bob is sketching. I might as well just go to break.

Coming up straight ahead, there's a new push to legalize pot in Maine. That will get his attention. Some people are fuming because ads are going up to encourage people to choose pot over alcohol. Is one less harmful than the other?

Then, that debate when "THE FIVE" comes back. We're 16 minutes away from getting Bob's sketch.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Pot versus booze. Is one safer to use than the other?

A new ad blitz in Portland, Maine, claims marijuana is less harmful than alcohol. The ads are up on buses right now in the city as part of a campaign to legalize the weed.

Eric, you're a weed user. What to you think?

PERINO: What?

BOLLING: Never have, never will.

BECKEL: I'm only kidding.

BOLLING: But I'll be perfectly honest, when we first started the show, I was vehemently against it. Throw kids in jail.

I've evolved -- I've really embraced the libertarian view on it. Don't hate me for flip-flopping on it because I have. But the reality is, number one, this stuff should be decided at the state level. I like that Portland is doing it because it shouldn't be a fed decision. It should be a state. That's fine.

Number two, they should be allowed to put whatever ad they want on any bus they want. But most importantly, I think people -- our jails are filled with low-level minor pot users and sellers and buyers. I think they really need to reform that. I think that's the first place to start.

BECKEL: Dana, I know this is not your field of expertise.

PERINO: Yes, baseball and marijuana, not really my block. Here's what I think is interesting, Bob. The focus groups that they must have done for the advertising -- one of the people that they have, at least that I printed out is like a middle-aged woman. And so, this is their focus group.

This is who they think will turn out to vote and that they're saying marijuana is better for you than alcohol, I don't know if that's necessarily -- I don't know if that's true. It might be less caloric, unless you get the munchies or something.

BECKEL: What do you think? I won't accuse you of ever doing that. But what do you think this is the most dangerous and whether this is dangerous?

TANTAROS: I think it depends. I think if you smoke a lot of weed in one sitting versus sitting down and having one beer, weed is more dangerous.

But if you smoke a little bit of weed and drink a lot of Jack Daniel's, alcohol is more dangerous.

But I've said before, I've always been in favor of decriminalizing small amounts of marijuana. I'm not loving, though, an ad campaign pushing marijuana. I don't really like that. There's a lot of young kids.

So, if you're going to legalize it, legalize it. But encouraging people to use it over alcohol to me is a step -- it's a little too far.

KILMEADE: You've got a clean cut guy saying I prefer marijuana, it doesn't make me rowdy and it doesn't me reckless. And not only going for the middle aged white women, they're also going for the people under 21. So, they're trying to do that. I don't think you need that. I don't think you need alcohol targeted for that as well.

The other thing is, let me give you the unofficial Brian Kilmeade study. Most people that do smoke pot, it is just the beginning. And most of the people I watch their ambition being curtailed steadily and they never reach their potential.

I'm at the point now --

TANTAROS: I agree with the second point, but I don't agree with the first point.

BECKEL: The fact is they ought to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana, but marijuana is getting so much stronger now than it has been before, much stronger.

And I've never been to an area where there's been marijuana use at a concert and there hasn't been Molly around, there hasn't' been speed around. The question is, is it a gateway drug? Booze is a question I could tell you. Booze killed 44,000 people last year. Nobody died from marijuana as far as I know.

PERINO: Well, do they keep stats on that?

BOLLING: Well, what about smoking? I mean, for -- the Center for Disease Control, CDC, says smoking directly causes up to 400,000 deaths.

BECKEL: Yes, but how many of that is marijuana they think?

BOLLING: No, no, smoking --

KILMEADE: Smoking pot.

BOLLING: Smoking cigarettes is 400,000 people die.

So, what are you going to do, you going to make that --

BECKEL: No, I don't think -- I don't think you ought to outlaw alcohol. And outlaw -- I mean, but the point is -- should marijuana be legalized. If it's as strong as I believe it now is, when I smoked it, it wasn't near as strong. But I think it does lead to other people getting higher thrills.

KILMEADE: You can subscribe to the study.

BECKEL: OK. "One More Thing" --

PERINO: If Gutfeld were here, he'd say that that alcohol -- that that's true for anything. It's more about self-control and the individual rather than the substance.

TANTAROS: Right.

PERINO: Not that I ever speak for Gutfeld.

BECKEL: That's one of the things I would disagree with him on.

"One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TANTAROS: It's now time for one more thing. I will kick it off.

All right. This video is going to make you flip. Sixteen-year-old Marie Kline (ph) decided to break the Guinness Book of World Records. Her friend told her she could do it. There she goes, 40 back flips in a row, breaking the record. She's from Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio.

I will say, my hobby may be drinking martinis and sleeping now. But it used to be gymnastics and dance. I could do a couple of those. But 40, no way.

Girl, that is awesome.

BECKEL: Did she break my record?

KILMEADE: She did. You had 37.

TANTAROS: OK. Robert?

BECKEL: I was in our good friend Dr. Siegel's office, Dr. Siegel who's on the air here a lot. I was talking to a guy who was sitting across from me. He was from Florida.

He had been diagnosed with inoperable cancer -- inoperable liver tumors and he was going to die. They gave him six months to live.

So, he'd been watching FOX and came up to see Dr. Siegel as a second opinion. Siegel looked at him, did some tests. The guy is alive three years later. He didn't have a liver problem. He had a thyroid problem.

So, all it does is underscore the importance of getting a second opinion because this guy was shattered, his family was shattered. He came to see Siegel, found out that it was not the case.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: Dr. Siegel helped out my family as well. He's the best.

PERINO: Why are you seeing Dr. Seigel?

BOLLING: Yes, he's -- by the way, why were you seeing him?

TANTAROS: HIPPA, you don't have to say anything.

Eric?

BOLLING: My turn, 16 years ago today I married Adrienne Jill Leventhal. There's our wedding picture. We actually eloped.

Quick story, see those studs on my --

TANTAROS: Did you have a stash?

BOLLING: Yes, I had (inaudible) and a stash.

See those studs? I forgot studs and the pastry chef loaned me his. Those are big plastic ones. Last night, here's us enjoying --

PERINO: That's fun.

BOLLING: The trick, 16 years later, the trick is keep having fun.

PERINO: I agree.

KILMEADE: Really?

BOLLING: That's the trick.

TANTAROS: I think you should bring back the little stash.

PERINO: Don't eat plantain chips while your wife is trying to have quiet time because --

TANTAROS: I wonder who could she be talking to.

PERINO: That happens.

I want to wish happy birthday to Ronan Villency. That is Kimberly's son, Kimberly Guilfoyle. They had the superstar soccer party today. He is "THE FIVE"'s biggest fans. He watches all the time.

So, we want to wish Ronan We wish you a very, very happy birthday. And all of his friends there. We love that kid. Love him.

TANTAROS: Big seven.

KILMEADE: I love the sport he picked.

I like to bring you some video right now. Let's go to the golf course where you'll see Tiger Woods, very familiar face. But Lindsey Vonn an outstanding skier. Together, they're a couple together.

Out of the pocket of Davis Love III comes a pet squirrel found on the second hole. They did well on the second hole so they kept the squirrel.

Lindsey Vonn says my boyfriend is so playful, I'll put him on his back. The answer is -- what's Tiger's response? I'm trying to watch, I'm trying to play. I knew I shouldn't have brought to you the course.

Later, he lightens up, they drive off together, he held the squirrel on his back. A wonderful story. I wish I had more.

PERINO: He doesn't look like he has a sense of humor at all.

KILMEADE: She brought it out there. But you shouldn't bring your wife to work.

TANTAROS: All right.

BOLLING: Lindsey Vonn getting the squirrel out of Davis Love's pocket.

TANTAROS: I would have broke with her.

That's it for us on "THE FIVE". Thanks for watching, everybody. Have a great weekend everyone.

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The Five, hosted by Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Greg Gutfeld, Dana Perino, Juan Williams, and Andrea Tantaros, airs on Weekdays at 5PM ET on Fox News Channel.