Gutfeld: Small government is back

IRS scandal is watershed moment for American public


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 6, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: As the IRS scandal bucket overflows, this period in history could be a watershed moment for all of us. It's the time the American public could step on the neck of big government and crush it like a soda can.

With IRS flacks now telling us that Washington directed the Tea Party probe, it's clear they weaponized the IRS through rhetoric indeed.

That's huge. This is politics disguised as governance. The goal being coercion. It's what progressives do best, fascism with a pretty face.

Conservatives don't do this because they are bad at it. But the left, government and politics are inseparable because politics is everything.

Even when they burp, it's with an agenda.

And so, today, Faris Fink, Spock in the IRS video, turns red over the convention mess. What's more embarrassing: the IRS has no documentation regarding costs.

And that opens the door for you and me to do the same. We can now say, you want receipts? I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

See, few revelations are nothing without revolutions. And if every person becomes a political target of a political machine there's no manpower to match that.

And the one candidate who vows to replace the IRS with a fair tax enforced by few rather than many, he or she will win.

It's the inverse of Obamacare -- a subtraction of corruption that enables prosperity rather than a burden of bureaucracy that paralyzes an economy.

Small government is back. I'd say to libs that the chickens are coming home to roost but I banned that phrase. Bob?

Are you trying to distract me?


KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: When you said when they burp, they have an agenda, I really like that part.

GUTFELD: Well, that's because Bob ate a lot of prunes and has an issue today.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: That is actually true.


I wanted to just throw some quick tapes to Faris Fink, who obviously played Spock. And this is him commenting on the videos today.


FARIS FINK, IRS OFFICIAL: I'm afraid, without a skilled leader, anarchy is spreading across the planet like the virus.

Those videos were at the time they were made were an attempt to -- in a well-intentioned way use humor to, the "Star Trek" video, to open the conference. They are embarrassing and I regret the fact that they were made.


GUTFELD: Dana, I actually -- as much as I wanted the IRS gone, I actually feel a little bad for the guy.

PERINO: It's terrible for him.


PERINO: You know, the sympathy or empathy that you have for him.

GUTFELD: You do have a heart.

PERINO: I do. I don't blame the individuals necessarily. I do blame the system and the overseers, and I do think the political tone was set, that made this -- over decades, that the government is more powerful. The IRS is the one entity that can bring everybody to their knees.

It's kind of fun to make fun of them, like who would dress the Spock. He wasn't that bad.


PERINO: I've seen "Star Trek."

GUILFOYLE: I bet you, they don't audit the Trekkies.

GUTFELD: Interesting point of view, Kimberly.

PERINO: We should FOIA (ph) that.

GUTFELD: I want to ask you, Eric, he said that he regrets that these were made. Do you think he regrets that these films were made, or regrets that he was caught.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: They were caught. I think he regrets they were made. Obviously, it wasn't regretting when he was making -- getting his makeup and putting his ears to play Spock. I have no sympathy for them. I'm sorry, I don't feel sorry for them. I don't think they were just caught up in the moment. They shouldn't have done it.

Dana, how many times have we talked about if somebody ask you to do something.

PERINO: Like I don't wear hats on TV.

BOLLING: Right. So, if we ask you to do it, you wouldn't do it.

PERINO: No, I did it once when you guys made me wore that thing for the Kentucky derby and I regretted it ever since. But I've never done it since.

BOLLING: But here's the thing. Let's talk about who these are. These aren't some people who decided, you know, they work for a company. They got caught doing something stupid.

These are IRS agents who make a living by making your life and my life utter hell, scaring the living bejesus out you, just by a mere phone call or knock on the door, you were scared. You were brought to your knees, saying, what did I do? I'm going to go back for the last five years, see if I did anything wrong, just because the phone rung and for them to be doing this with our money, our money, is absolutely ludicrous.

Elijah Cummings for once stood up and said, I see no redeeming value to this.

PERINO: But just think if he had your job, then he can wear like a tin foil hat and --


PERINO: IRS agent if he was Eric Bolling, then he can wear a tin foil hat in front of the world and --


GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't know.

PERINO: You wore a silly hat, remember?


GUILFOYLE: He's saying jobs that would allow to wear sill hat.

BOLLING: Oh, this is one of them?


GUILFOYLE: I wore a Santa hat.

GUTFELD: So you brought up Elijah Cummings.

Before I get to you, Bob, I want to let's roll some tape of Elijah getting freaked (ph) out a little bit over these "Star Trek" videos.


REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, D-MD.: I live in a block where most people don't make $50,000 a year. But yet we can produce a video that has no redeeming value, none. And spend taxpayer's hard-earned dollars for that.

REP. CAROLYN MALONEY, D-N.Y.: Not only was it a monumental waste of well over $50,000 of taxpayer's money, but I would say it is an insult to the memory of "Star Trek."


MALONEY: I could do a better Captain Kirk.


GUTFELD: She could with that hair.


GUILFOYLE: Her hair was fabulous.

BECKEL: Dolly Parton.

GUTFELD: When you lose to Elijah Cummings, who is a big time liberal.

BECKEL: Yes, he is.

GUTFELD: You're in trouble.

BECKEL: Which means he's a big time fascist according to you.

Speaking again now for the fascist now caucus, so far the communist for communist, red sympathizers and now fascist -- I happen to think the video is fine. I don't have any problem with it.

GUILFOYLE: Of course.

BECKEL: Why? I mean --

GUTFELD: It's part of a bigger -- connecting the dots of a bigger corrupt picture.


BECKEL: Well, it may have cost a little extra money and probably had a friend that was filmmaker.

But, look, everybody puts things in conferences. We all speak in front of these things. They all do a funny video. So, what is the big deal.

GUILFOYLE: It's wasteful. You are supposed to be for the poor and downtrodden. Lift them up, let's spread the wealth. You have no problem with these ridiculous "Star Trek" videos and line dancing.

BECKEL: Do you have a problem with the new Raptor jet that wasted billions of dollars in double engines they don't need?

GUILFOYLE: How can you compare defense spending to a "Star Trek" video?

BECKEL: Several billion dollars of wasteful government spending.

GUILFOYLE: The point is, it's Americans money that --

BECKEL: So is the Raptor.

GUILFOYLE: -- they work really hard to make.

BECKEL: So is the Raptor.

GUILFOYLE: The IRS has not trouble taking it and terrorizing people, to the point where they feel like they are going to jail if they don't pay and these guys are laughing. You know, they were laughing and having a great time.

BECKEL: We're making so much fun of government waste in this $50,000 video and yet you don't talk about the wasteful department of the government --

BOLLING: Bob, $50 million, those 50 grand. But $50 million they spent on conferences.


BOLLING: Fifty million dollars.

GUILFOYLE: How can you say so, Bob?


GUTFELD: I want to bring in some more tape. This Senator Chaffetz grilling the IRS on expenses --


GUTFELD: Then, I want to ask you where this leads, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I will tell you.


REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: When did you become aware of the massive expense?

FINK: I actually did not become aware of the massive expense until much later. I did not know what the expense was at the time of the conference that we were paying. I did not know what the expenses were.

CHAFFETZ: And you are the number two person in that position. You are oblivious of the expenses? You're totally ignorant of the expenses.

FINK: I was not involved in the planning.


GUTFELD: I just like the little card that says Mr. Fink.

BOLLING: It should be Mr. Rat Fink.


GUTFELD: Kimberly, what can he do as Americans right now? It seems like a golden opportunity to go after a bloated bureaucracy, clean it out and create something, actually caught -- because making "Star Trek" jokes is pointless if there is no purpose.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I agree. That's why I think we should do something about it and put in a flat tax. Enough already with the IRS. They just prove that they can't do their own accounting because they don't know how much they spent. They didn't keep track of it.

They are sorry because only they got caught. Other than that, they thought it was the best time of their life and they were looking forward to doing it next year. Again, they are nothing but an albatross on the backs of the U.S. taxpayers.

And you know what, if you don't pay your taxes you can go to jail. So, these people should have at minimum lost their job.

BECKEL: I don't want to sound like a Johnny (INAUDIBLE) here but the amount of money and waste in the federal government and the Department of Defense is enormous and they get people who are retired generals who go out on the Beltway, started a business and make a fortune --

GUILFOYLE: Why are you picking on generals?


GUTFELD: Bob, this is what you're doing. You're going like this, look over here at this. That's your defense. It's not a defense.

Let's talk about how the American public feel about like this, Dana. Sixty-eight percent of respondents in a new poll said they think the IRS targeting was motivated by politics. That's a pretty big number and it was high among Republicans, high among Democrats and high among independents. I'm high.

PERINO: Sixty percent of Democrats.


PERINO: And even if they with would be defensive for President Obama, they do think government -- regardless of who's in power -- is too abusive and too arrogant.

So, 68 percent, that is prime opportunity for somebody to do something bold.

The person, Daniel Werfel, that President Obama appointed to go in, he does seem a serious guy, trying to do some things, but if you just put people on administrative leave and you don't actually fundamentally change something and take the opportunity to do something, you might have really wasted more taxpayer in long run. Because I also think, Eric, maybe I'm wrong, the fair tax, all the models that have done, the economic growth potential, if you go to a system like that rather than the current income tax that we have, would be really good for everybody, old people, young people, Hispanics, blacks, African -- everybody would benefit.

BOLLING: Everyone except the people who aren't paying taxes right now, and that's part of the problem. Those are the ones who are putting Democrats in office, and they say, by the way, we don't want to go to a fair tax.

This little deal we got going on, where we don't pay federal income tax, pretty darn good.

Can we just -- can I point something out - -


BECKEL: They don't pay taxes because they don't have enough plenty to put food on the table for their families.


BOLLING: But the rest of us, the other 53 percent pay the taxes.

BECKEL: And you should.

BOLLING: Anyway, the two IRS agents who are accused of being rogue and starting this. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, last I heard they pointed a finger at somebody in Washington, a guy name Carter Hall (ph), if I'm not mistaken.

Here is the question, they say it came from Washington. Who told Carter Hall?


BOLLING: That's -- there -- once you find, get Carter Hall, I don't want to see Mr. Fink. Carter Hall in front of the congressional panel saying, this is how I came up this myself or this is who told me to come up --


BECKEL: Can you tell me why Mr. Issa has not -- Chairman Issa has not released the full transcript of those discussions, for transparency purposes?

BOLLING: Of which discussion. The ones of the Cincinnati people, he will not release. Only one he releases is damning ones and, by the way, Chaffetz, please don't get away from the TV camera, you don't have enough exposure.

The fact of the matter is that Issa and, you know, here's the other thing, the Republican leadership is upset with Issa because he went out there and he used that comment about lying on the Sunday shows, they wanted to rein in and act like a mature adult chairman. And he's much more like a hack.

PERINO: One thing I noticed, Elijah Cummings says in one these articles, Greg, he expresses outrage over the videos and he tried to understand by watching them over and over again at 3:00 a.m.


PERINO: And I thought this might be an opportunity to let him know that if he is up at 3:00 a.m.

GUTFELD: Watch "Red Eye."

PERINO: He should watch "Red Eye."

GUTFELD: Very important.

PERINO: Much more redeeming than IRS videos. Sometimes.

GUTFELD: Yes, sometimes, not all the time.

BECKEL: Average of 1,000 bucks of these people in these conferences and that's about less than most conferences. I mean --

BOLLING: Fifty million dollars.

BECKEL: And $1.2 billion for an engine for a plane.


BECKEL: Come on, Bob. Why don't you -- where is the outrage about the Defense Department?

GUTFELD: That is lame defense.


GUTFELD: The IRS scandal is much bigger than this conference. It's about targeting --

BECKEL: I agree with you.

GUTFELD: But what about Defense? We know, we remember the toilet seats from the Pentagon. Remember that? We all get it. We all know that they're overspending.

BECKEL: Much bigger issue, it's about the IRS targeting groups. It's a much bigger issue than some silly video. Why don't we get to the point of finding out who do this and take the opportunity to reform the tax code.

GUTFELD: I love you for that. I agree.


BOLLING: Talking about the $50 million they spent playing around with this conference.

GUTFELD: All right. They are yelling at me.

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