War of words: Issa calls Carney a 'paid liar'

Was the accusation an appropriate comment?


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 4, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: The chair of one of the committees investigating the IRS isn't happy with the response that has been coming from the White House. Here is Darrell Issa taking a shot at Jay Carney yesterday.


REP. DARRELL ISSA, R-CALIF.: Their paid liar, their spokesperson, picture behind -- he still making up things about what happens and calling this local rogue.


GUILFOYLE: So what does Mr. Carney have to say about that? Well, he was asked about it at today's briefing.


WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY JAY CARNEY: I hadn't heard that. That's amazing. I'm not going to get into a back and forth with Chairman Issa.


GUILFOYLE: Well, the White House says he doesn't want to get their hands dirty so their surrogates are out there doing it for them. Former senior advisor David Plouffe tweeted, quote, "Strong words from Mr. Grand Theft Auto and suspected arsonist/insurance swindler. And loose ethically today."

That is a mouthful of tweet for you, right?




GUILFOYLE: Did we leave anything else out?

I mean, poor Darrell Issa.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Poor Darrell Issa?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Here's what he did, David Plouffe. Really, honestly, maybe Darrell Issa shouldn't have said paid liar. Look --

GUTFELD: He should say overpaid.


BOLLING: Very good. But here is the thing: David Plouffe, there's no reason for him to tweet that. He knows very well that Darrell Issa was -- there were no charges ever applied to Darrell Issa on all of those things that came up 20, 30 years ago, all of those charges were dropped. For him to do that is amazing.

There was a tweet that came after that and I can't remember who it was, but they put up a picture, and visualize this. You know, the picture of President Obama when he was in college, chewing gum --



BOLLING: -- smoking some weed and it was a picture of that that said while Darrell was being -- the charges were being dropped on Darrell Issa for those things, here is what President Obama was doing.

Now, there is no disputing that part, because President Obama admitted to doing it.

Look, this is a peeing match, we call it that, going back and forth. Eventually, let's just get to the truth. Let's just find out what happened.

GUILFOYLE: You don't have a problem with what I said?

BOLLING: He could have used a hatchet or a scalpel.

BECKEL: It was a disgraceful comment on his part. He started it, and the response was bad as well.

If we can just get this thing -- for the chairman to take on some serious investigation to call people "paid liars" diminishes his own role in this thing and for Plouffe to come back and calling those things I think was a mistake too. Now, I do think Darrell Issa finally apologize, but this is getting down to rough politics already before we have evidence out there. Does he have evidence that Carney was a paid liar?

PERINO: He has the transcripts that have one thing being said and then another thing being said and that's part of the look into things.

GUTFELD: There are two things about this thing. You are not supposed to call somebody a liar. You say they misled. We learned that. You can't say the word that you mean!

But I would rather be called a liar or a hypocrite than a racist. That's all the left does. I'm sorry, Bob, but that's how the Tea Party was characterized for the last two years as being racist. Call me a liar all you want. Don't call me a racist. There's no comparison.

GUILFOYLE: I think what's going on here and, Dana, the White House and the left and the Democrats trying to make Issa the villain and the poster boy for this investigation and trying to dirty him up to take the shift away, the focus.

PERINO: And I think the best response out of all of this is Jay Carney who says, "I'm not going to dignify that. I'm not going to engage with Darrell Issa. My job is to answer your questions."

And as a press secretary, you never want to become the story. That should not be your goal. And if you become the story, then you have a problem. Now, they have a problem.

But I also think that from the chairman's standpoint, he's got an excellent case. They can go about it methodically and on the merit, and they can probably either score political points if they want, but they can get to the truth easier if they don't make themselves part of the story.

GUILFOYLE: But, Eric, I mean, what they're doing, this is one of their plays, right, where they try and smear the person that's spearheading the investigation, to take the focus away.

BOLLING: I know. And they keep using the same thing over and over again, those charges that were brought up and dropped 20, 30 years ago. The question is, Dana, if the White House says this is what we are going with, these are the talking points we are going with and you as a press secretary believe them to be true, do you deliver them? What do you do?

PERINO: Heck no, no way. Absolutely not. Mostly because not just for yourself, because -- when you are the spokesperson, you are really unimportant. You are the vessel. You are communicating with the president of the United States.

I would wait. I would stand outside the Oval Office and say I'm not doing this until we have more of an answer.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, I've got something for you.

BECKEL: I can't let this go by what Greg said, because it is true that there are certain individuals on the left that do raise the race card, but they generally are very few and they are very far left. I can tell you that I know very few people on the left who raise the race card in defense of Obama or anybody else.

And so, to indict the whole left on this is not a fair statement. There are some. I grant you that.

PERINO: So, what about Julian Bond? He represents --

BECKEL: No, he doesn't represent the left.

PERINO: But the NAACP's former chairman. I mean, that -- he is a leader of the group.

BOLLING: We just had a state senator -- go ahead.

BECKEL: I was just going to say, if you look at the overwhelming percentage of people who say this are blacks who raise the racist card.

BOLLING: We did a whole segment saying the reason people disagree with Obamacare is because the president is black.

GUILFOYLE: You mentioned about this yesterday of Plouffe and Axelrod, take a listen to this piece of sound. We're going to get a little reaction around the table.


DAVID PLOUFFE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: This was not an effort driven by the White House. It would be the dumbest political effort of all time.

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: If there was somebody political involved in this, it never would have happened, because it was the stupidest thing you could imagine.


GUILFOYLE: You had a quick comment, Greg?

GUTFELD: Well, OK, the defense of the IRS, no politician would ever do something so stupid -- politicians are predicated on doing stupid things. If politicians didn't do stupid things there would be no need for politics to cover it up. We would not have politics. All you would have is governing.

Politics is invented to disguise the corruption of people in government.

GUILFOYLE: Is this your next book? I have a feeling.

OK, Bolling?

BOLLING: No politician would ever tell a group of available people to help out four ambassadors in trouble. No politician would ever do that.

No politician would ever deny a search warrant and then sign it only a couple days prior to that.

GUILFOYLE: Friends in green and blue, anything else to add?

PERINO: I will pass.

GUTFELD: No, it's like password.

BECKEL I will not pass, because I think what they both said, and these are two skilled politicians, but it is hard for me to imagine that to make this order, to do this to Tea Party groups is so politically dumb that it just -- it rises -- I can't believe that Plouffe or Axelrod would do this.

GUILFOYLE: You don't like it --

BECKEL: There may be somebody else in the White House, but it is so dangerous.

PERINO: Right. Can I take back the remaining balance of my time? I agree. That's why I said that they are writing checks that they can't necessarily cash, because they don't know what's in the account. They don't know who possibly could have paid into the account or might have taken withdrawals.

And so, when they said nobody was involved, maybe nobody or the four people sitting around senior staff table, but they can't say that about everybody in the campaign, and that can comeback to haunt you --

GUTFELD: The White House burglary, everybody would -- the burglary of the Watergate seems stupid now.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my gosh. Now, you've opened that can of worms. I would like to say it reminds me of the situation in college where my brother wrote those checks to Domino's and there is no money in them.


GUILFOYLE: It's problem. Pizza is good.

PERINO: You're paying for today.

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