Honest Debate a Thing of the Past?
Fox News contributor Juan Williams on his new book 'Muzzled'
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," July 28, 2011. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And this is a Fox News alert. There is a possibility that there could be another delay on the House vote on the Boehner debt bill tonight. There's word that the GOP may be trying to tweak the speaker's bill at the last minute to secure the missing votes.
Joining me with reaction the author of, by the way, a terrific brand new book, it's called "Muzzled, the Assault on Honest Debate," Fox News political analyst, Juan Williams. I was very touched by it. First of all, I nearly read it in one sitting. I couldn't put it down and I was very touched, you told the story that you knew you were fired, you were on the show that night and you and I are -- what people don't know is even though you are absolutely like Bob Beckel says, you were dropped on your head as a kid, we don't agree politically, we have the same values, we care about our kids, we have a friendship outside this of and that night I knew something was wrong.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is amazing to me that you said to me. We were arguing like we always argue on the show and as we walked out you said are you OK, is something wrong with you?
HANNITY: You had just been fired.
WILLIAMS: Buddy, I was shaken up, but I didn't know because I didn't tell anybody and there you are, I mean, in a moment of connection that to this moment I'm still like how did Sean know that and then we went off and started having our discussion.
HANNITY: I got to tell you. You got to get the book. The story is amazing. It is compelling. I thought you had a great discussion with Jon Stewart. He would never be that nice to me.
WILLIAMS: A lot of people thought he's going to beat me up, I'm a Fox guy.
HANNITY: I thought it was very nice and fair to you.
WILLIAMS: It was a fair interview, it was.
HANNITY: And I thought he got a lot out of you. I know he doesn't like Fox and he hates me, but I thought it was well done. All right, here, look, now it is time to get tough.
WILLIAMS: Right.
HANNITY: Why won't this president man up and lead? He asked for this job. He campaigned for this job. He begged for this job hope and change, hope and change, people fainting before him, a new era of America. And he doesn't have the political courage to go out and put his plan on paper and the Republicans have one, two, three, four, five plans that we can read, we can absorb, we can look at with specifics, voted on, why is the president politically a coward?
WILLIAMS: Let me just say. This is not about plans, Sean. You can have all of the plans in the world. What America needs tonight is a deal that will avert this crisis.
HANNITY: Why can't he put his deal offer on the table like the Republicans out there leading with their chins?
WILLIAMS: Eric Cantor when he was in the negotiations with Biden said the Democrats, President Obama, the White House, they put $2 trillion in cuts on the table. That's a huge victory for Republicans.
HANNITY: This is a meeting! There is a big difference between, you know, the Ryan plan voted on. The "Cut, Cap and Balance" voted on. They are trying to get votes tonight for a deal that their own base is angry about and the president hasn't done it.
WILLIAMS: Correct, Republicans are in a circular shooting squad and let me tell you something the left in the country is infuriated with President Obama and the White House because they think he is giving too much to the Republicans.
HANNITY: He lost the tax raising debate. That's one thing Republicans have won here. But here's the problem, this president is not a leader. He is spineless. He didn't have the courage to lay out his vision, his plan and show the American people where he really stands.
And you know what, at a time when the country is facing losing its AAA bond rating it is disgraceful he is so bad. He is not fit for this office. I'm telling you he is over his head.
WILLIAMS: This is so wrong and the way that you go after President Obama, hit on President Obama constantly and somehow escapes your attention that you have a group of people who have absolutely lost touch with reality with the financial risk they are putting the entire country, my pension plan, your pension plan.
HANNITY: Stop it! He spent the money, Obama stimulus. Obama's budgets. Obama's deficit.
WILLIAMS: He spent the money? Oh, let's count. I have heard from you, Sean Hannity, that President Bush was the one that passed the prescription drug benefits with no funding. Two wars not on the books. You support these wars and we want to fight for our freedom.
HANNITY: As bad as President Bush's worst year was, his last year -- in 2007, his budget deficit was $153 billion. His next year, the worst year he had, $450 billion. Obama's debt this year, deficit $1.65 trillion.
WILLIAMS: And why? Why?
HANNITY: Five times!
WILLIAMS: Because we had to spend money in terms of everything from bailouts to stimulus to try to avert the idea that our recession would turn into a depression.
HANNITY: Juan, I got to tell you something, this president has never -- Donald Trump said this, what big deal has he ever done in his life? What experience has he ever had to run the biggest economy in the world except run it into the ground that we are going to lose your AAA rating? He ran this economy into the ground.
WILLIAMS: Run it into the ground? Let me tell you something. Everything that he tries to accomplish Republicans act to obstruct and it's clearly they just --
HANNITY: Cry me a river.
WILLIAMS: They just want to beat Obama and deny him an opportunity.
HANNITY: Excuse me. He had two years with Pelosi and Reid and majorities --
WILLIAMS: And what was he doing? He was trying to do a bipartisan deal and work with conservative Democrats and Republicans.
HANNITY: Excuse me. Was he bipartisan on his stimulus? Was he bipartisan on Obamacare? Hell he was. He was not.
WILLIAMS: He couldn't get votes because Republican leadership said we don't want to do anything to help this president.
HANNITY: That's right and the Republicans were wise enough not to take $4 trillion in new Obama debt and $5.2 million of Pelosi debt.
WILLIAMS: Let me tell you something. Did you know today that Rasmussen had a poll, only six percent of America approve of congressional behavior right now, six percent, never been lower. You know why this is, Sean?
HANNITY: Because the Democrats ran the country into the ground?
WILLIAMS: Tonight you've got this charade on Capitol Hill where these guys are playing with each other and saying I'm more conservative than you are and none is concerned about America's future.
HANNITY: Where is the president's plan? Why is he politically cowardly?
WILLIAMS: The president is standing there and saying let's make a deal. He has made every effort.
HANNITY: Show me. Tell me where I can find it.
WILLIAMS: Who walks away, who doesn't call the president back?
HANNITY: Where can I find his deal? I can't find his deal!
WILLIAMS: You know what? His deal is right there where he is negotiating with Boehner.
HANNITY: Where is it? Where is it so we can read it? This the most transparent administration in history and I can't find his deal?
WILLIAMS: What do you need? A deal where there is nobody on the other side to negotiate with. And that right now is the case.
HANNITY: I see the Republican deal. I see "Cut, Cap and Balance." I see the Ryan plan. I see this deal tonight. They've got something on paper.
WILLIAMS: You know what I see tonight? I see Republicans who can't even vote on their own deal because they are so divided and let me say you cited the Wall Street Journal editorial earlier tonight.
HANNITY: Pathetic.
WILLIAMS: Pathetic? How about the Wall Street Journal acting in a way that says we have a financial future, a common future, Republican and Democrat and let's protect it.
HANNITY: You stay right there because I'm not done with you.
WILLIAMS: Oh my God! He's going to have more.
HANNIY: You're staying. We're going take a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: We continue now with Fox News contributor the one and only Juan Williams. His brand new book is "Muzzled." I can't believe I'm endorsing a book when I'm in a big fight with you here.
You know, Juan, here is the problem and we went over this with Rand Paul. All of these bills short of "Cut, Cap and Balance" all of them and you can't tell me what the president's plan is because he didn't have the courage to come forward with one. He didn't do what the Republicans did because I think he is in over his head, he is weak and he's not a leader. That aside --
WILLIAMS: OK.
HANNITY: Thank you for conceding that point.
WILLIAMS: I didn't but go right ahead.
HANNITY: Here's the point, the Republicans have put forward their plan and with all of these plans short of "Cut, Cap and Balance" and what Rand Paul and I were talking about tonight, we are still increasing spending eight percent a year.
We are -- not only are we taking a sledge hammer to our kids' piggy banks. We are taking a bulldozer to freedom, our Constitution and their future opportunity and that is why this matters. We get this right now and that is why the president should have led.
WILLIAMS: Let me just say this to you, the president has been leading and the president has been trying to engage in serious negotiation.
HANNITY: You don't believe this.
WILLIAMS: When you talk about the size of government spending, let me remind you that taxes in this country are at a 60-year low in terms of GDP. Secondly, let me remind you something, that the country is growing. We have more people on entitlements than ever, more people, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and aging population so there's going to be increased spending and we have to provide for the people, especially people that paid into the system.
HANNITY: Every family watching this program right now, every person all around the world who watch this program and watch the Fox News Channel, if they fell short of money and I told them they have to freeze spending for six years and cut one percent a year, do you think they could do it? Do you think that is possible?
WILLIAMS: This is a totally false analogy.
HANNITY: No, it's not a false.
WILLIAMS: Let me tell you why it's different. Your family and my family as fortunate as we are in American we don't print money in my household. You know what? We don't have bonds that we can issue and get capital and we don't guide the rest of the world because of the value of our dollar.
HANNITY: We are becoming Greece. The debt to GDP ratio is going be 100 percent of what we take in. That means that every penny this country takes in is going to go to service the debt and that means that we will not be able to pay for any programs.
So if we can experience a little pain now because they have overspent more than anybody else, Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats, a little pain now, a little austerity now is going to prevent our kids from working their entire adult lives to pay off this that we're accumulating.
WILLIAMS: Are you working for the Obama campaign because this sounds like what President Obama was talking to the Republicans about when said he is willing to raise the age on Medicaid. He is willing to put more --
HANNITY: Show me where he put that on paper?
WILLIAMS: Stop with that foolishness!
HANNITY: There is this silly teleprompter he reads. He doesn't have the courage to --
WILLIAMS: This isn't the teleprompter.This is what he is saying to Republicans in serious negotiations.
HANNITY: Jay Carney was asked today by Chuck Todd. He said can you show us the deal and he says we have shown enough leg in this debate.
WILLIAMS: What are you talking about?
HANNITY: That is what he said. He won't show us the deal.
WILLIAMS: What we are talking about here is trying to work with people. Why don't you stand up and say you know what, Republicans, you know what Tea Party members, we won, we pushed this.
You think he is a liberal far left president, right, this liberal far left president is willing to engage in entitlement cuts, spending cuts and -- what's it about for tax hikes? No tax hikes, that is what you are getting from the Democrats.
HANNITY: In two and a half years we've had an 84 percent increase in discretionary spending under the most fiscally irresponsible, reckless, ideolog that's ever been on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
WILLIAMS: You are so myopic. And I can't believe --
HANNITY: I am so honest. I tell the truth.
WILLIAMS: You are not honest with this.
HANNITY: I'm honest with Obama. He has been a disaster for this country and the economy.
WILLIAMS: You know what is a disaster for this country? That charade going on Capitol Hill tonight.
HANNITY: At least they have some courage, some plan!
WILLIAMS: Let me tell you something. This is like a bunch of kids out in the woods playing with each other and you say kids come in it's time to do serious business, let the adults take charge and President Obama has shown leadership that you refuse to acknowledge, Sean.
HANNITY: I have a headache. More with our Great American Panel. Thank you, Juan.
WILLIAMS: You're welcome.
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