This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," February 2, 2011. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: President Hosni Mubarak's 30 year reign appears to be coming to an abrupt and violent end in Egypt. Now, the turbulence witnessed on the streets of Cairo today shut much of the international community. And it has helped remind us all that the critical question now facing the rest of the world is who will fill the power vacuum when Mubarak officially steps down? Will democracy take shape or will a radical Islamic caliphate soon form?
Well, the man who will join me now live from London believes that this is the beginning of an Islamic uprising in the Middle East. And perhaps, even more alarming, he thinks the extremist group known as the Muslim brotherhood will likely rise to power in Cairo. Here to explain those predictions and much more is controversial Muslim cleric, Imam Anjem Choudary. Welcome to the program.
ANJEM CHOUDARY, RADICAL IMAM: Yes. Thank you very much.
HANNITY: You know, I actually read a transcript of an interview yesterday. And as I was reading this, it was interesting to me, because I found myself agreeing with you. And I probably agree with you on very little else. And you were making the case that in fact, this is, as you said, this is the Islamic revolution going on in Cairo. Can you explain that?
CHOUDARY: Yes, absolutely. I mean, one only has to look at the streets in Egypt, they are saying, you know, Mubarak the coward, the agent of the Americans. They are fed up of the torture, of the corruption of the lack of resources. They want to change. I mean, in Egypt today, you already have drugs and alcohol available, they have corruption, all of the fruits, if you like of Western civilization there. What they don't have in Egypt is the basic needs of food, clothing, and shelter, they don't have, you know --
HANNITY: It's a very poor country, we got that. And most of the people live in poverty on less than $2 a day, we've covered all that ground. I want people to know a little bit more about you and who you are. Let me give you for example the Muslim Brotherhood's motto which is their motto today, "Allah is our objective. The prophet is our leader. The Koran is our law. Jihad is our way. And dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope. Allahu Akbar." Do you agree with that motto?
CHOUDARY: Yes. I mean, which Muslim would not agree with that. We do believe as Muslims that sovereignty and supremacy belongs to God. In fact, in the world today, there are two camps, one which believes that sovereignty belongs to man at the head which, you know, is the moment probably Barack Obama and the other one which believes that sovereignty belongs to God. And the head of that whether we like it or not, Usama bin Laden.
HANNITY: All right. So, the Islamic brotherhood that was responsible for the killing on the assassination of the prime minister back in 1948 and also responsible for the -- and involved in the assassination of Anwar Sadat in 1981 and also these writings influence Ayman al-Zawahiri and Usama bin Laden, these are people you admire, these are people that you would want to rule Egypt in the Middle East?
CHOUDARY: No, I believe that the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt have gone through various stages. I mean, we've seen the removal of the British Empire there. We've seen the removal of dictators like Anwar Sadat and obviously now Hosni Mubarak, you know, inshAllah soon.
HANNITY: I got that. I got all that. That's not the question.
CHOUDARY: We've seen them going through -- I'm addressing your question, you have to allow me to finish...
HANNITY: No, no, no, but I just read to you their motto, sir.
HANNITY: And their motto is, Jihad is our way and the -- wait a minute -- and the Koran is our law. You want the Koran to be the law. You want an Islamic caliphate. And how do we interpret Sharia from your view? For example, can women drive in Saudi Arabia under Sharia they can't. If women are raped they need four male eye witnesses. Women in Iran under Sharia are stoned to death. Is that the Islamic law you support, sir?
CHOUDARY: OK. I'm going to answer this question. Let me talk about the Sharia. Obviously, the Sharia is misunderstood, there's no doubt about it. Under the Sharia, you know, we don't have women stoned because, you know, they are raped or because they committed adultery and the man is not, if you like, punished, this is complete false, totally false. Under the Sharia in fact, what we find is the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter are met. The life, the wealth, the honor, the dignity of all citizens are protected. In fact, the Sharia was implemented in Egypt for over a millennium. You know, in Egypt.
HANNITY: You are distorting the issue.
CHOUDARY: Well, allow me to answer.
HANNITY: I'm allowing you to answer.
HANNITY: But sir, sir, I have example after example, women are stoned to death in Egypt. Women can't drive. Under Sharia in Saudi Arabia, you yourself -- hang on -- you yourself sir, let me finish my question. You yourself, people who commit adultery, should be stoned to death. You said that. You said that Egypt and America one day will be under Sharia law. You said every woman Muslim or non-Muslim would have to wear a burqa. Did you not say that, sir?
CHOUDARY: What I said was in fact and what I continue to repeat is that I do believe that the whole world will one day be governed by the Sharia. That is the promise of the best man who walks the message of Muhammad Salalahu (ph). Let me say something, look, you know, there are many misconceptions about the Sharia. You know, at the moment, we have about 55 so-called Muslim countries, none of them implement the Sharia. We have some examples where people are trying to implement the Sharia as in Somalia, you know, parts of Iran and Afghanistan. This is a project, you know, and if you look at those places, you know the --
HANNITY: All right. I got the 55 countries.
CHOUDAR: All me just to finish my -- I think you are listening --
HANNITY: Sir, I'm quoting you. Answer my question, did you or did you not say people who commit adultery should be stoned to death? Did you say that?
CHOUDARY: That is not my statement, but I believe that, certainly, I do believe that when the Sharia is implemented --
HANNITY: Thank you.
CHOUDARY: -- and you have the education system of Islam and you have the social and economic justice, certainly the penal code to be implemented.
HANNITY: OK. And you also said.
CHOUDARY: It is not just about, well, allow me to finish.
HANNITY: You're answering the question.
CHOUDARY: It is not about stoning people to death. Well, look, you know, Mr. Hannity, I believe your name is Hannity, you know, if you just going to kind of hound me with questions and not allow me to answer your questions, I think your listeners of your viewers are going to be very upset. Allow me to at least finish a sentence, I mean, I'm supposed to be a guest on your show.
HANNITY: This is not a monopoly, I'm not a guest on your show.
HANNITY: We have limited time.
CHOUDARY: It is not a monopoly, but all you are doing is just shouting at me. And I don't think, you know, that's not a very decent way --
HANNITY: Because you don't answer questions.
CHOUDARY: I'm answering your question.
HANNITY: You said, people who commit adultery should be stoned to death. Anyone who becomes intoxicated with alcohol should be given 40 lashes in public. You said that. Every woman Muslim and non-Muslim should have to wear a burqa and cover all but their face and their hands. So, my question is this, that's your version of Sharia, forget about the 55 countries, that's what you would impose on the people of Egypt and you would rob them of their freedom, sir?
CHOUDARY: Let me tell you something, the people of Egypt are not upset with Islam and the Sharia. They want to be free from the American regime in the area, they want to be free to support their brothers in Gaza, they want to be free to be able to practice their religion, they want to be free to be able to wear the burqa -- in institutions. They want to be free to be able to do as they please, have food, clothing and shelter. They want the freedom that you are propagating in America which is torture and mayhem in Guantanamo Bay and (INAUDIBLE) bombing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
HANNITY: Sir, you speak of freedom -- you speak of freedom but you would force women --
CHOUDARY: I don't think the people of Egypt are envious of the American government and what you're doing. You don't have a decent way of life that you can export to our country. Don't pretend that you have a public system of --
HANNITY: Sir, I'll put American way of life for the prosperity and the freedom against your -- now it is my turn.
CHOUDARY: You have the largest GDP in the whole entire world -- you have trillions of dollars of debt --
HANNITY: I will put America's freedom up against your tyranny that would force women to wear burqas --
CHOUDARY: Freedom to do what -- freedom to do what?
HANNITY: -- that would put people to death because they commit crimes that you don't agree with in choices they make. That you would give 40 lashes to people that drink alcohol because you are imposing your radical views on innocent people because you don't believe in freedom. And that's what is an Islamic caliphate which you support would result in, sir.
CHOUDARY: Look, there is freedom from and freedom in to. The parameters of freedom need to be laid down. I believe that the ones who should lay down those parameters is Allah, is God, the one who created us. You believe that people who are following like whims and desires like Barack Obama and George Bush should lay down the boundaries. That is why in America, in 28 states, bestiality is lawful. That is way in America, you know, you have over two million people in prisons. That's why in America, you have the death penalty. But you have a long list of people who are waiting to be killed. Don't you lecture me about the Sharia, the Sharia irradiated poverty.
HANNITY: You're right, we would have less people in prison if we don't like what they do, we would cut their hands off and we put them, we bury them halfway in the ground and stone them to death, you are right the prisons would be half empty.
CHOUDARY: Let me tell you something --
HANNITY: Under your way of life that's what we'd be stuck with. We would stone them to death, just like in the barbaric ages of, you know, biblical times. We have to take a break. More with the Imam coming up, right after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "PARKER/SPITZER" ON CNN, OCT. 29, 2010)
UNIDENTIFED GUEST ANCHOR: Let me be clear here, you are saying there are two camps, one is headed by Barack Obama and the other is headed by Usama bin Laden? Just for our audience here, so, let's be clear. Which one of those camps are you in?
CHOUDARY: I'm in the camp of the Muslims. At the current time that is Sheikh Usama bin Laden. When you sent bombs over there, what do you expect to send back to you? What did you expect to find in a package? You know, chocolates? Of course you are going to find bombs. They are going to give you a taste of your own medicine. And quite honestly, you know, the answer to this is not to point the finger of blame whether to be like myself, rather we should condemn the (INAUDIBLE) and the oppressor of today, which is in fact, Barack Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And welcome back to "Hannity" and our continuing coverage of the crisis in Cairo, Egypt. Back with us now live from London is the controversial Muslim cleric Imam Anjem Choudary. Let me ask you a question, sir, we hear a lot about suicide bombers and we hear a lot about that when they kill innocent men, women and children, the name of Allah is part of Jihad, that they get 72 virgins when they kill innocent people and go to heaven, do you believe that, sir?
CHOUDARY: That's complete nonsense. Nobody kills innocent men, women and children, apart from organizations like black water and the ISI and the use of the Americans, you know, in Pakistan --
HANNITY: All right. Forget about that. There are 3,000 innocent people killed in 9/11, sir, 3,000.
CHOUDARY: Oh, really? And how many hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children did the Americans kill in Iraq and Afghanistan?
HANNITY: I don't have time for your lectures because you are historically so inaccurate. Wait a minute, the 3,000 people, wait a minute, you said you are on Usama bin Laden's side. Three thousand innocent Americans were slaughtered on 9/11. You support this man, I'm asking, do you think the people responsible for that are going to go meet Allah in heaven and get 72 virgins? It's a simple -- you are supposed to be a lawyer, you are not particularly bright -- it's a simple question, do they get the virgins or not, sir?
CHOUDARY: Well, let me ask you a question.
HANNITY: I don't want a question with a question. Answer the question!
CHOUDARY: When you carpet bombed Baghdad, do you think that those people were implementing freedom and democracy? You answer my question and I answer your question.
HANNITY: I'll tell you what, when you get your own talk show, I'll go on your guest, I'll be a guest and I answer your question. But you answer my question because the point is --
CHOUDARY: Let me see how bright you are, Mr. Hannity. When you bombed Afghanistan and Iraq, was that implementing freedom and democracy? Answer the question. You'll lose your job that's why you don't want to answer it.
HANNITY: Sir, the point is, you are a radical murdering supporting fascist and you want this caliphate expanded to the rest of the world. I'll ask you again. Did the people responsible for 9/11, did they get their 72 virgins in your view?
CHOUDARY: You answer my question. Did the Americans and the British implement freedom and democracy when they carpet bombed Afghanistan and Iraq? And I'll answer your question. Is that propagating freedom and democracy?
HANNITY: The answer is, you do believe it just like you believe in chopping off people's hands.
CHOUDARY: Answer my question and I'll answer your question.
HANNITY: You get your show and I'll answer your question, you don't have a show, I have my own show. You were invited on this program to answer questions and you don't want to answer questions. My next question for you because I doubt you would answer this, would you like to see, Ahmadinejad, would like to see the destruction of Israel, sir?
CHOUDARY: You have me on the show because you avoid questions -- well, when we you occupy someone's land and you steal their resources and you kill and you murder innocent men, women and children, then of course, that needs to be repelled. Every Muslim knows that Israel is occupying Muslim land. And obviously, this needs to be repelled. You know, they need to return from where they came. How is it that you can occupy our land and our homes and steal our resources and you want us to accept it? You would not accept that for your own backyard. You know, Israel is not, you know, Kansas or, you know, Tennessee, this is Muslim soil, Muslim land that has been occupied. And it has been stolen and it will be revived.
HANNITY: No, it's not. It will be revived. And so --
HANNITY: If you have your radical way.
CHOUDARY: The Egyptian soil -- wait a second. When Egypt is liberated and Sharia is implemented --
HANNITY: You are monopolizing too much time. You can't answer simple questions. So, if you have your way, you are saying you want to wipe Israel off the map. You want Israel destroyed. You don't want the state of Israel, because you have this fued.
Now, here's the point I'm trying to make you and I will finish my thought. You believe that every woman, non- Muslim, women should wear a burqa, you're a fascist, you want to ram that down people's throats, you want to cut off people's hands -- excuse me -- I'm not finished. You want to cut off people's hands that steal. You want to stone people to death if they commit adultery. You want to rob Israel's land and you justified it. And I believe, although you don't have the courage to admit it because you are a bit of a coward that you believe that people that killed 3,000 Americans are going to heaven and they've going to get 72 virgins.
So, don't you see, can you not stand back from your sick, twisted bizarre ideology here to see that those 3,000 people were innocent victims, sir, can you not see that?
CHOUDARY: You know, Mr. Hannity, you have a true phobia. Whenever I turn the table on you and I talk about the reality, you want to avoid and you want to talk over me. Your viewers will see you through your lies and your propagandas.
HANNITY: My lies and my propaganda.
CHOUDARY: The fact is, the Americans are the biggest criminals in the world today, they are bombing Muslims, they're occupying our land. Yes, I believe in the Sharia, I believe in the sovereignty belongs to God.
HANNITY: Thank you.
CHOUDARY: And the Sharia will come to America and --
HANNITY: And you believe in virgins in heaven, don't you?
CHOUDARY: It will remove the corruption of democracy and freedom and all of your exploitation. You are worried because you know Islam is coming to your backyard. And you cannot tolerate that. The biggest criminals and the biggest murders today are not the Muslims. We did not bomb Hiroshima -- we didn't carpet bomb --
HANNITY: Hang on, I have a question. I mean, because I'm a nonbeliever -- hang on a second-
CHOUDARY: And you want to blame the Muslims.
HANNITY: I'm a nonbeliever, I'm a infidel. If I don't convert to Islam, should I die?
CHOUDARY: No, you can live under the Sharia, your food, clothing and shelter will be provided --
HANNITY: I can live under Sharia, oh, thank you, sir. Please, I thank you so very much.
CHOUDARY: Your food, clothing and shelter will be provided, and you will not be exploited unlike as in America and in Britain and in the Western countries. You will have the basic rights and of course you will live as a citizen, unlike the way people are being exploited in America.
HANNITY: But I must live as a citizen under Sharia, I've got to live under your caliphate and your way of life. And if I don't, I'll die. I'll be killed and you will feel justified. And you'll be rewarded in heaven.
CHOUDARY: No you're not. Where are you getting advice from? Look, you need to do more research. You cannot base your understanding of Islam on one trip to the library.
HANNITY: My understanding of Islam is exactly accurate. Your comments condemn yourself, sir.
CHOUDARY: You're very immature --
HANNITY: We are out of time. Thank you very much for being with us.
CHOUDARY: Next time we can have a more decent conversation.
HANNITY: You're one sick miserable evil SOB. But I thank you for coming on anyway.
CHOUDARY: Well I think you --
HANNITY: We will analyze the Obama administration's actions regarding Egypt and much more, Karl Rove coming up, straight ahead.
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