This is a RUSH transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," July 29, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
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JUAN WILLIAMS, GUEST HOST: In the "Factor Follow-up" segment tonight: unrest in Arizona. Dozens of people in Phoenix were arrested, hauled off in handcuffs as opponents of the state's tough new immigration law went ahead with planned protests today despite a judge's ruling that blocked key enforcement parts of the law.
The SEIU, one of the nation's most powerful and influential unions, released a video that compares the Arizona measure to the Berlin Wall and Japanese internment. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAPHIC: They'll build a wall.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: We got the right plan. The plan is perfect. Complete the danged fenced, the danged fence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attention of an anxious world is focused on East and West Germany and Berlin.
GRAPHIC: And then, finally…
They'll intern undocumented workers in camps or "Tent Cities."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stealing a good idea from Sheriff Joe, tent city, doing exactly the same thing for housing illegals, at a much, much lower cost.
GRAPHIC: Haven't we seen this before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, our West Coast became a potential combat zone.
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO: When they go home, maybe they will stay home and not come back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Military authorities therefore determined that all of them would have to move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Joining us from Kansas City, Kris Kobach, a former Bush Justice Department official who co-authored the Arizona law. And from Boston, Susan Church, an immigration attorney.
Susan, let me begin with you. You know what? I have my question about the immigration law, but I think that video is way, way, way over the top. I mean, to me, Japanese internment? It looks like scare tactics meant to stir up a base in political race but has very little to do with the reality. Am I off here, Susan?
SUSAN CHURCH, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Well, I think the reality here is what the Hispanic community is feeling as a result of these laws in Arizona that are clearly targeted just at them despite everyone's statements to the contrary. This is a warning shot to the people that all of these situations in our past history, the Mexican Deportation Act, the Japanese internment, they all started with irrational fears over different people of different colors, different nationalities. And those irrational fears, if they were not put a stop to at an appropriate time led to horrific behavior on behalf of many people and strong victimization of, that case, Japanese Americans. So I think the warning that things could go badly.
WILLIAMS: In a word, you think the video is great. Is that right, Susan? Do you think this is OK to say these outrageous things? You think it's great?
CHURCH: I think it's important for Americans to understand that when you pass laws the way -- like the ones that Arizona has passed -- that are clearly targeted at minority of people in the country that bad things happen.
WILLIAMS: But Susan, that's not what the video -- it wasn't a discussion about it. It was, to my mind, an effort to scare people and speculative there is no reality to it. All right, so let me bring Kris Kobach. Do you think the video was great?
KRIS KOBACH, CO-AUTHOR OF ARIZONA IMMIGRATION LAW: No. Juan, you were right when you described it as outrageous. I thought the comparison was particularly idiotic between the Berlin Wall and the border fence such as it exists on the Southern border. The Berlin Wall was built to keep people in. The fence on our Southern border is built to keep people out who would violate the laws and only allow those in who follow our laws. It's like comparing the door on your house to a door on a jail cell. The jail cell intended to keep people in prison. The door on your house is to only allow in guests.
You know, the part about Japanese internment camps -- and this is where I really have to disagree with Susan. The Japanese internment camps were wrong because they targeted people because of their ethnicity and their ancestry. They specifically interned people of Japanese origin. The Arizona law says on its face, four times, it says this law shall not be enforced with consideration of a person's national origin. The Arizona law is race-neutral, nationality-neutral and clearly something that is fair and constitutional. By the way, the Justice Department didn't even bring a racial profiling challenge against the Arizona law.
CHURCH: You know, I think we all know what's going on here. I think we all can be honest about this law and know that if a police officer determines quote unquote "with reasonable suspicion" that someone is illegal, it's not going to be because the person is white and speaks with no accent. I think that we all can be honest and admit that reasonable suspicion is largely 85 to 90 percent of the time is going to be based on the way a person looks, the way a person acts. Even the legislator who advocated for passage of this law…
CHURCH: ...let me finish. Even the legislator who advocated for passage of this law said that we can tell someone is illegal. We can tell by looking at their shoes. So I think that it's -- if people are honest, they will admit what this law is based on.
WILLIAMS: Susan, let Kris respond to your point about this racial profiling.
KOBACH: OK, I think Susan's problem is not with the law. Her problem is with law enforcement officers. She seems to think that they are inherently evil, biased people. The law says in addition to 14th Amendment protections, you also have the protections of the statute and this statute does not allow a law enforcement officer to consider your race, color or nationality.
WILLIAMS: All right. Susan, Kris, thank you so much.
CHURCH: And then the question is what is the law officer to consider then? What else? The way they talk? I mean, there is nothing else to base illegality on.
WILLIAMS: Susan, we've heard the debate. We appreciate it because I think people, again, have a better understanding thanks to the two of you.
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