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Hannity

Conclusion of Hannity-Moore Showdown

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," October 9, 2009. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: Michael Moore's new movie, "Capitalism," is causing quite a stir at the box office for its criticism of the capitalist economic system. Now, the first part of my exclusive interview with the controversial filmmaker aired earlier this week, but there's a lot more that didn't air, and things got, well, pretty heated.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: If government then has to take over. If you're not going to support — for example, you — if Freddie and Fannie go bankrupt, the government will take over, right?

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Uh-huh.

HANNITY: If the government — the post office is going bankrupt, Freddie went bankrupt, Fannie went bankrupt, Social Security is going to go bankrupt this year, according to the latest report. Medicare is going bankrupt, Medicaid is going bankrupt, the FDIC, all going bankrupt.

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MOORE: Uh-huh.

HANNITY: So my next question is why do you trust the government so much? Because that's the only — what else is left? What's going to take over if capitalism isn't there?

MOORE: Well, when you say post office is going bankrupt, what makes you think the post office is — exists to make a profit?

HANNITY: Well, the point is who's going to pay for all this?

MOORE: Well, these are government services. Who's going to pay for the roads? Who's paying for the traffic lights?

HANNITY: But it...

MOORE: Who pays for the Army? I mean, these are things — we don't expect the Army to make a profit.

HANNITY: No, it's...

MOORE: The fire department to make a profit.

HANNITY: The country — Barack Obama...

MOORE: So don't expect the post office to make a profit. It's a service that we need.

HANNITY: So Medicare won't make a profit.

MOORE: It shouldn't make a profit.

HANNITY: Social Security won't.

MOORE: It shouldn't. And in fact let me tell you something...

HANNITY: But they're insolvent. There's a difference. Government has mismanaged it.

MOORE: They're not insolvent. No, no, no, listen...

HANNITY: Yes, they are.

MOORE: The reason why it looks like there's not enough money in Social Security, that we may run out in a few years, is because guys like you and me, who make over $110,000 a year.

HANNITY: How do you know how much I make?

MOORE: I'm going to guess you make more than $110,000 a year.

HANNITY: None of your business.

MOORE: But people who are listening to this right now are probably going to hear this for the first time, that you and I, after $110,000, pay zero — zero — Social Security tax.

HANNITY: Most people know that.

MOORE: Really? You think most people know?

HANNITY: Social Security...

MOORE: Do you think it's right? Do you think it's right that the people watching this are — having to pay a flat tax, around 7 percent, on their wage of $40,000 or $50,000 or $60,000, and you and I don't have to pay the flat tax...

HANNITY: No, no, no.

MOORE: ... on everything that we earn?

HANNITY: No, no, but...

MOORE: Do you think that's right?

HANNITY: It's a very...

MOORE: You think it's right?

HANNITY: You are purposely misrepresenting what Social Security was originally intended.

MOORE: Because let me finish my point. Because if you and I and people who make over $100,000 paid the same flat tax as the guy making $50,000 a year...

HANNITY: You're missing the point.

MOORE: ... there would be — let me just say this, because it doesn't get said.

HANNITY: Go ahead.

MOORE: There would be enough money in Social Security to last to 2087.

HANNITY: The point is...

MOORE: 2087. If the wealthy paid their fair share.

HANNITY: Wait a minute. But everybody gets — Social Security, if you go back to its original intention, this is money that was supposed to be put away as a sacred trust. If you paid in your whole life or your father paid in or any of your friends paid in their whole life, then that money would be available to them when they retired.

When you retire, even though you stop at $110,000, you don't — you don't keep getting more based on the money you made. You get a capped amount so everybody would pay in and they get a little bit back in their old age, etc., etc. It was not designed originally to be the end-all to retirement for people.

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MOORE: Originally. But — but it became essentially your pension in your old age.

HANNITY: Right, but how much — my next question is how much of people's income do you, Michael Moore, want the government to confiscate?

MOORE: Well, for people like you and I or...

HANNITY: Yes, everybody.

MOORE: Well, I think you and I should be paying probably twice what we're paying right now in taxes.

HANNITY: So I pay — I pay — I live in New York. I can't pay twice. I pay 60 percent of my income.

MOORE: No, you don't.

HANNITY: Oh, yes, sir.

MOORE: No, you don't.

HANNITY: Yes. Michael, you want to take your second bet?

MOORE: Go ahead. And add it up for me.

HANNITY: Federal, state, local, county, sales, property, 60 percent.

MOORE: County?

HANNITY: Nassau County.

MOORE: You live in Nassau. I thought you said you lived in the city here.

HANNITY: Sixty percent. So I can't double. I can't double what I pay.

MOORE: I can't speak for Nassau County.

HANNITY: I'm 20 percent in the hole.

MOORE: Well, I'm sure the people of Nassau County appreciate your contribution.

HANNITY: I bet they do.

MUSEUM: And pay for police, fire, the roads, the functioning of Nassau county.

HANNITY: How — how much should I be able to keep? Can I keep 20 percent in your world?

MOORE: You know what? When you and I were growing up, I mean, people paid 70 percent, up to 70 percent, the wealthiest.

HANNITY: The top — the top marginal rate.

And it nearly destroyed the economy.

MOORE: Are you — do you remember how the wealthy lived back then? They were doing great.

HANNITY: JFK came into office, and he dropped the top marginal rates, and we have economic growth. Reagan cane into office, dropped the top marginal rates from 70 to 28 percent. Revenues to the government doubled. They're plummeting under Obama's plan. And — and the country created 21 million new jobs. Twenty-one million new jocks.

MOORE: Plummeted — plummeted under Reagan.

HANNITY: How many jobs has Obama lost?

MOORE: The job loss started under Reagan, and it's been going downhill ever since.

HANNITY: He created 21 million, Michael.

MOORE: Real wages haven't gone up since Reagan's election.

HANNITY: Can I ask you this? Obama promised that if we passed this stimulus, unemployment wouldn't go above 8 percent. Now 9.8 percent. Did he lie to us?

MOORE: Well, I didn't make that promise.

HANNITY: He did. Did he lie to us? You worship him in your film.

MOORE: He didn't lie. I think that was his — I worship him in my film and the little altar I have at home.

HANNITY: With the candles.

MOORE: The candles that I'm lighting. He didn't lie. I think that was his hope.

HANNITY: Hope.

MOORE: He's trying to undo a mess...

HANNITY: It's George Bush's fault.

MOORE: ... left behind...

HANNITY: By George Bush.

MOORE: By not George Bush — George W. Bush.

HANNITY: George W. Bush, OK. So the point is, so Barack Obama, he promised no lobbyists. He promised no earmarks. Did he lie about that?

MOORE: Well, I think that there's a lot of people that are disappointed about some of the things that have happened. Who — no one is going to say that they're thrilled with everything that's going on. I just think — I'm willing to give the guy a grace period to figure it out.

HANNITY: Uh-huh.

MOORE: You know? And he's not...

HANNITY: And if he screws up, how long is your grace period before you say, "I expect jobs created"?

MOORE: Let me tell you something. If he screws up, if he really goes back on his word, if he becomes the president of Goldman Sachs, for Goldman Sachs and by Goldman Sachs...

HANNITY: He supported TARP. You didn't like TARP in the movie.

MOORE: If he — let me just say this. If he really doesn't come through, it won't just be me. It will be a lot of people who had a lot of hope in him that he was going to be different than the last guy and the guy before him.

And if that doesn't happen, you're going to see — first of all, sadly, you're going to see a lot of young people just give up, because it's their first experience with politics. They got behind him. And then — and then it didn't happen. And they're going to turn into cynics. And they're going to go, "These politicians, I guess my parents were right. You know, they're all the same."

HANNITY: I don't think they're all the same. I think there's differences.

MOORE: I hope that that doesn't happen. And it's in Obama's hands.

HANNITY: Can I go back to my question? How much of my income do you think I should be able to keep? Give me a percentage.

MOORE: How much do you want to keep?

HANNITY: I want to keep — I want to keep 75 percent.

MOORE: You want to keep 75 percent.

HANNITY: And I want to choose where I give at least 10 or 15 percent a year in charity. My wife and I are pretty generous. How much do you think I should be allowed to keep before I go to jail?

MOORE: I think — I think that you should be paying half of your income. Not the people watching this. But your income.

HANNITY: I pay more than half now.

MOORE: In taxes.

HANNITY: So I'm overpaying?

MOORE: I never met anybody that's paying — that's paying more than 50 percent.

HANNITY: I get two salaries.

MOORE: Can you bring your tax returns in tomorrow and show us, please?

HANNITY: You bring me yours; I'll bring you mine.

MOORE: What is that about? That sounds a little creepy.

HANNITY: It does.

MOORE: We're not in the locker room here.

HANNITY: All right, let me ask you this. You talked a lot about the health care. When your movie "Sicko" came out, I think we actually have the video here, you know, when you go to Cuba, the bullhorn, the scene that everybody knows about. Do we have that video?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "SICKO")

MOORE: They've become known around the world as having not only one of the best health care systems, but as being one of the most generous countries in providing doctors and medical equipment to third world countries.

In the U.S., health care costs run nearly $7,000 per person. But in Cuba, they spend only $251. And yet the Cubans are able to have a lower infant mortality rate than the United States, a longer average life span than the United States. They believe in preventive medicine. And it seems like there's a doctor on every block.

Their only sin when it comes to health care seems to be that they don't do it for a profit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Do you think you only got access to the hospitals and areas they wanted you to have access to?

MOORE: We went wherever we wanted to, yes.

HANNITY: Let's me show you — we have some undercover video of some real hospitals in Cuba. Want to take a look at it? Let's roll the tape.

There's no — we had an undercover video. This is a real Cuban hospital.

MOORE: Yes.

HANNITY: I want you to take a look at it. And I want you to look at the conditions. And it's about as filthy and about as dirty and about as disgusting as any hospital I'd ever seen. Now, in your movie, you leave a very different impression.

MOORE: So far I haven't seen any...

HANNITY: Have you ever seen an American hospital...

MOORE: But the thing is, you call this a hospital. I'm waiting to see the patients.

HANNITY: Look, that's a patient's bed. They probably ran...

MOORE: Sean, where are the people?

HANNITY: That is a hospital in Cuba.

MOORE: Really? Where are the people?

HANNITY: They're not there, thank God. Would you want them to be there?

MOORE: Because it's not — because it's probably not...

HANNITY: It's a real hospital.

MOORE: I want to see a doctor and nurse.

HANNITY: There's a patient. You wanted a patient.

MOORE: We've got somebody — we've got somebody...

HANNITY: Hang on. We may get a doctor in a minute if you hang in there.

MOORE: What part of this don't you like? Now, we're back to the no people part.

HANNITY: It's filthy...

MOORE: I love how you cut in a couple people.

HANNITY: It's a filthy pig pen.

MOORE: You guys are great. I have a question. Keep rolling. I'm still waiting to see a doctor or a nurse or...

HANNITY: Michael, maybe that's...

MOORE: Keep going. Not on the toilet. Not on the toilet.

HANNITY: Maybe that's the point. The doctors aren't there.

MOORE: No doctors on the floor.

HANNITY: Maybe your analysis of their system was faulty.

MOORE: So you think they just roll the patients into a hospital with no nurses or doctors?

HANNITY: No, maybe there's no doctors in the hospital. That's correct. That's the problem, Michael.

MOORE: Really? So they lure the sick into the hospital?

HANNITY: Here's what I...

MOORE: Put them into the bed, and then there's no nurses or doctors anywhere.

(EVIL LAUGHTER)

HANNITY: That's your best moment.

MOORE: Wait. You stopped rolling the tape. I was still waiting to see the hospital.

HANNITY: That's the point. Let me ask the question. So Michael Moore gets sick. I'm going to give you a choice. I'm going to give you a choice.

MOORE: Here we go. Here we go.

HANNITY: The Mayo Clinic. OK, I'm going to give you Sloan Kettering. God forbid if you ever got sick or got cancer. If you have any other problem, I'll give you the choice of the best hospitals in America or your Cuban hospitals where you say they have such a good life standard. Which by the way, I've read you bring your own toilet paper.

MOORE: That's not true. I was there. I saw it.

HANNITY: They showed you what they wanted you to see.

MOORE: If I got sick in Cuba I feel like I would be taken care of very well by...

HANNITY: Mayo Clinic or Sloan Kettering or Cuba?

MOORE: Who gets — who living in Harlem gets to go to Sloan Kettering or the Mayo Clinic? Are you kidding me?

HANNITY: Tell me — tell me three drugs that was created in Cuba. Because I tried to look — because half the patents...

MOORE: It's a third-world country.

HANNITY: So they don't create any drugs. So they're created in the U.S.

MOORE: They're created with our tax dollars. You realize that?

HANNITY: I brought you — I brought you...

MOORE: Do you realize these companies are making millions on research and development that's paid for at our universities with our tax dollars?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: And welcome back. We continue with more of my interview and debate with filmmaker Michael Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: I got a present for you. You say you want a single-payer system. This is a whole stack, and I have another whole stack up in my office.

MOORE: Yes.

HANNITY: One in six NHS patients misdiagnosed. We had the government rationing body of Great Britain denied women with advanced breast cancer the drugs they need. They said, "You can't have them." A death sentence.

MOORE: Wait, wait, wait. Don't say this about the British health care system.

HANNITY: The British health care system.

MOORE: FOX News, it's on satellite now. So they're watching this in Britain. No, they're laughing right now.

HANNITY: Oh, yes?

MOORE: Can you hear them laughing?

HANNITY: Did you hear Daniel Hannan? He's been on the program. He's confirmed it.

MOORE: Sean...

HANNITY: Read from the Telegraph. Babies born in hospital corridors; bed shortages; cruel and neglectful care of one million NHS patients.

MOORE: Why do the British...

HANNITY: Daughter claims father wrongly placed in controversial end- of-life scheme. Doctors told me it was against the rules to save my premature baby.

MOORE: You know...

HANNITY: Restrictions on prescription osteoporosis.

MOORE: Again, the British laughter now is — my ears are bleeding. They're laughing at you. They're literally laughing at you.

HANNITY: We've had Daniel Hannan on this program. He agrees with me. Is Daniel Hannan a liar?

MOORE: We're the only western country, only western democracy, industrialized country, that doesn't have this.

HANNITY: All right, next question then.

MOORE: Wait a minute. In Britain they live longer than we do. They live longer because when they get sick they don't have to worry about seeing a doctor.

HANNITY: Then why do people from Great Britain, Canada, France — here's an article about France. French government tackles surging health care deficit. Why do they flock to the U.S. to...

MOORE: They don't flock.

HANNITY: Oh, yes, they do.

MOORE: People with money often go to...

HANNITY: To American hospitals.

MOORE: ... to here or to other places around the world. I know Americans who had to go for treatment to other countries. If you have money you can do that. But the average American obviously can't do that.

We've got nearly 50 million of our fellow citizens who don't have health insurance. How do you sleep at night knowing that?

HANNITY: I sleep at night knowing that we — it's not 50; it's more like 12. That figure is a lie.

MOORE: So it's 12. I'll take your phony statistic, and I'll agree with it. Twenty million.

HANNITY: All right, I'll pass off your phony statistic.

MOORE: Twenty million.

HANNITY: No, it's 12.

MOORE: Oh, twelve. Twelve. So only 12 million can't see a doctor when they get sick.

HANNITY: Obama says 30, by the way, so he's in the middle.

MOORE: Twelve — 12 million.

HANNITY: So here's what I would do. I would increase tax benefits for anybody that can't afford it. So that they could get their own insurance. And I'd create a competitive nature. Hang on.

MOORE: A lot of these people don't pay that much taxes. They're on the lower end.

HANNITY: Tort reform. Tort reform. Portability. Medical savings accounts.

MOORE: Tort reform, lawsuits and — and...

HANNITY: They did it in Texas.

MOORE: ... insurance, doctors and liability insurance, makes up about 1 to 2 percent of our health-care budget.

HANNITY: Here's a question. If our — if America is so bad, because every time I read about you, and I haven't even touched half the stuff I've researched about you, but if America is so bad, why do people in Cuba...

MOORE: Why do you think it's so bad?

HANNITY: No, based on your analysis. If it's so bad, if capitalisms so bad, why do people in Cuba get in broken down, dilapidated, rickety boats or inner tubes...

MOORE: Because they live in a third-world country.

HANNITY: But you praised their system. Why do they come...

MOORE: Because it's a poor country.

HANNITY: Why does somebody — why do we have to build walls to prevent people from coming in, not going out?

MOORE: You're Irish, right?

HANNITY: That's correct.

MOORE: So how do you think your ancestors came?

HANNITY: Are you Irish?

MOORE: Yes.

HANNITY: Not related.

MOORE: How do you think they came here?

HANNITY: They came poor, and they didn't have health care, and they worked hard.

MOORE: Poor boys come here. So what's your point about Cuba? Are you saying that our great grandparents who came here from Ireland, they came here because Ireland was such an evil country?

MOORE: How could they come — well, you're the one that said...

MOORE: Are you saying the Irish are bad?

HANNITY: You say capitalism is awful. You want socialism and a single-payer system.

MOORE: Wait, wait, wait, wait. You're saying that our Irish great grandparents came here because Ireland was evil, and they had to get in boats and come here?

HANNITY: I'm saying they came here for freedom, Michael. This is what you don't understand.

MOORE: Oh, well, that's what — yes.

HANNITY: They came here for opportunity, not for guaranteed health care, not for guaranteed school, not for guaranteed housing. They came here for freedom. And they wanted to make the best of themselves.

And Michael I'm going to be the first to tell you I stand on my grandfather's shoulders.

MOORE: Yes.

HANNITY: And my father's shoulders.

MOORE: We all do. We all do.

HANNITY: And they didn't come here for a Michael Moore handout.

MOORE: No, but you know what? When they got here somebody did help them.

HANNITY: Not the government.

MOORE: Stop for a second. Somebody helped my grandparents. They helped your grandparents. And sometimes it was the government.

HANNITY: I agree with you.

MOORE: And it was Franklin Roosevelt, and it was the New Deal that helped them. And for you, to get to this place of being successful and having money, to want to turn your back on the people who were helped and say no, no, no, just let charity take care of it. You know, this...

HANNITY: This is the answer. That's not what I'm saying.

MOORE: My question is why do you hate our government so much? That you don't want to trust it to take care of the fellow citizens?

HANNITY: That's a great question. You want to know why? Because the government is incompetent.

MOORE: No.

HANNITY: The government — wait a minute. Michael, they promised to put Social Security money in a lock box, and they blew it. They spent it. They used it to accumulate power. They — same with Medicare. They spent it. They bankrupted it. They ran it into the ground. Freddie and Fannie, they ran it into the ground. Where's the Social Security money that was supposed to be in a lock box, Mike? Where is it?

MOORE: Well, you are still living in 1936.

HANNITY: No. Where is it? That's a sacred trust.

MOORE: The way Social Security works now, and you know this.

HANNITY: It's a Ponzi scheme. Worse than anything Halliburton could have done.

MOORE: Man, I don't know why you hate this government and why you hate old people or you want to say this.

HANNITY: Hate old people? I love old people.

MOORE: Old people love their Medicare and their Social Security.

HANNITY: Obama is cutting Medicare $500 billion.

MOORE: Now, people — listen, that's — now you know what that's all about. You know...

HANNITY: He's cutting it.

MOORE: Not cutting it. It's that we're living longer than people lived in 1936. Which is a good thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: And welcome back. Here is the final installment of my interview with filmmaker Michael Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: Why do you trust government so much then? Why do you think — why do you believe government that has failed the public trust — why do you trust them?

MOORE: I've been very disappointed in a lot of politicians and a lot of leaders we've had of this government. But when you say this government, this government to me is of, by, and for the...

HANNITY: It's a cliche. Why do you put your faith in government?

MOORE: You just asked me. Let me answer this. It's not a cliche. That's really — I don't understand how you can say that something so critical, so vital to who we are, of, by and for the people, just to call that a cliche. It's not a cliche.

HANNITY: No, the way you're using it is a cliche.

MOORE: It's written down in our Constitution. It's who we're about.

HANNITY: How did we survive all these years without nationalized health care?

MOORE: We aren't doing very well and a lot of people are suffering. And it would do you and your good nuns who taught you...

HANNITY: You know Sister Agnes Lucille?

MOORE: She'd be very happy, I think...

HANNITY: No, she wouldn't.

MOORE: ... if you would be — no, that's right, she wouldn't how you turned out.

HANNITY: I know, I'm evil. Evil capitalist.

MOORE: But you're supposed — you're supposed to be there for...

HANNITY: You want to wring my neck, don't you? Go ahead.

MOORE: No, I don't. I don't want to — no. I just want you to be everything that you were taught to be as a Christian.

HANNITY: I am a Christian.

MOORE: As a person who loves this democracy.

HANNITY: I love it.

MOORE: I know you do.

HANNITY: I do.

MOORE: You need to start acting like it and you need to start realizing your fellow Americans who are hurting right now, they're in the same boat you're in.

HANNITY: I agree.

MOORE: And that boat, we're going to sink or swim together.

HANNITY: That's the best thing you've said in this interview.

But I'm going to tell you one other thing. Michael, I want — I want Americans to be free. Capitalism — and I'll end it with this — and I'll give you the last word. Capitalism made you a kid from Flint, Michigan, a multimillionaire. It made me, the son of Irish immigrants, poor, you know, a successful person. Capitalism allowed that to happen.

Castro would not let you have that happen. Socialism destroys incentive. It destroys wealth. It lowers the standard of living. America has created a standard of living that is the envy of the world because people in freedom were able to dig down deep in their hearts and souls and find their God-given talents, bring them to fruition, and that made everybody rich, even the poorest among us. And I've been in the Techwood homes, and I've been in some of the poorest housing projects. They live reasonably well by world standards.

You get the last word.

MOORE: You've been watching too much TV Land.

HANNITY: I've been to the Techwood homes.

MOORE: You — no, I'm saying that you live in this old way of how you wish it would be. Andy of Mayberry, Hooterville. You know.

HANNITY: Good grief.

MOORE: That's the — the way it is right now, Sean, and you know this, millions of people are hurting. We have extremely high unemployment. We have — you said I could have the last word here. Fourteen thousand people today lost their health insurance in America. Fourteen thousand will lose it tomorrow. And 14,000 will lose it, as they do every day. Fourteen thousand a day are losing their health insurance. These are your fellow Americans. And...

HANNITY: I'll make a deal with you. If you give up 95 percent of your wealth, I will donate another 10 percent of my salary this year. I want to see you put your money where your mouth is. Michael, you have multiple homes. You live a good life. You're a multimillionaire. You give your money. You show me by example. Give up all your money.

MOORE: I know it bothers you that millions of Americans have gone to see my movies.

HANNITY: No, it doesn't bother me.

MOORE: And allowed me to...

HANNITY: I paid for my own ticket.

MOORE: You know, there's...

HANNITY: I want to read...

MOORE: Why do you have me on here? You know, there's 100 million Americans right now out there.

HANNITY: You're powerful.

MOORE: They have nothing.

HANNITY: You're a powerful — you're a powerful voice.

MOORE: Why don't you have the voice of the people on here who have nothing?

HANNITY: Every night we have a "Great American Panel." Michael, I try...

MOORE: The people — I'm talking about the people who are struggling to get by. Who are trying to live from paycheck to paycheck. Where is your heart for them?

HANNITY: Michael, I give — I donate generously every single year...

MOORE: Well, that didn't help the 14,000 who lost their health insurance today, did it? Your little bit of charity isn't going to do it, Sean.

HANNITY: Michael, I went out last week. I went out two weeks ago to California because farmers are standing on line for food because our government shut off their water, and it's become a dust bowl.

You know what? I spend every single day. I just believe the real answer is capitalism. The real answer is freedom. The real answer is liberty. You want a cradle-to-the-grave society, utopia but you're not willing to pay for it. And in that sense you're a hypocrite, Michael.

MOORE: No, actually...

HANNITY: You really are. You really — I don't mean to be insulting.

MOORE: Well...

HANNITY: But if you aren't going to put your millions of dollars on the line, then you're a hypocrite, because you're benefiting from the system you're trashing.

MOORE: Yes.

HANNITY: And that's sad, Michael. You're lecturing me. You're benefiting from the system you trash.

MOORE: Yes. I think that — I was thinking about if there was a Sean Hannity around back in the days of Thomas Jefferson or John Adams or George Washington, he'd probably say to them, "What are you doing complaining about this? You've really benefited from the system. Look at all the money you've made, you know." Would you say that to them? You know?

HANNITY: I have quotes from Jefferson. And you know what they said? Jefferson and Franklin and everybody, you know what they warned about? They warned about putting our debt on our children and grandchildren. You know what we're doing right now?

MOORE: Yes. They also — they also warned about — warned us about the rich.

HANNITY: We're stealing their future.

MOORE: They warned us about the banks. They warned us about a lot of things.

HANNITY: There's some truth.

MOORE: Because they knew — because they knew, as wealthy men, they knew just what the wealthy would do to people, if we allowed the wealthy to be completely in charge.

HANNITY: Here's my challenge to you. Ninety-five percent of your income, I want to see you give away. Ninety-five percent of your wealth and then when you do that...

MOORE: I will work for any legislation that doubles my taxes and yours.

HANNITY: If I double my taxes, Michael, that's twice what I'm making and 20 percent.

MOORE: You don't pay 60 percent in taxes.

HANNITY: Michael, I pay 60 percent.

MOORE: There's no way.

HANNITY: Sixty percent.

MOORE: No way.

HANNITY: Sixty percent.

MOORE: Bring in your tax returns.

HANNITY: Do you want to make a bet?

MOORE: I'll bet you right now...

HANNITY: I'm not going to show you my tax return.

MOORE: ... you do not pay — well, I'll settle for an independent person to audit you.

HANNITY: We've got to go.

MOORE: You did not pay 60 percent of your income last year. You did not pay 60 percent.

HANNITY: All right, if you give 95 percent — I'll make a deal with you. You make 95 percent donation.

MOORE: I'll give 95 — 95 percent of what you earn.

HANNITY: That's the point.

MOORE: To the people.

HANNITY: So you don't believe in freedom. You're stealing my money. You want government to steal my money.

MOORE: If you want to have a bet that's the bet.

HANNITY: Forget it. Goodbye.

Michael Moore, appreciate it.

MOORE: All right.

HANNITY: Thanks.

MOORE: All right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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