OTR Interviews

'On the Record' Legal Panel: The 'Craigslist Murder' and Casey Anthony Cases

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," May 1, 2009. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: And now, what you have all been asking for, even demanding -- the return of your legal panel.

There are two big cases to tackle tonight -- first, the suspected Craigslist killer, who sits behind bars, medical student Philip Markoff charged with one murder and one assault.

But police reportedly found 16 pairs of women's underwear at Markoff's home. Could more charges be on the way?

Plus, second, hundreds of documents have been released in the Casey Anthony murder case, and the documents raise big questions about whether the prosecution is blowing their case against Casey.

Let's bring in your legal panel, criminal defense attorneys Ted Williams, Bernie Grimm, and Michael Cardoza. Good evening, gentlemen, nice to see you, as always.

And Bernie, the soon-to-be ex-fiancee of the medical student, she is going to end up being a witness.

BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that's a problem.

VAN SUSTEREN: Big problem.

GRIMM: I mean, she said she is "standing behind her man," but they find plastic ties in the house. They find 16 pairs of women's underwear, which --

VAN SUSTEREN: They will say, are those your underwear? They're going to ask her that.

GRIMM: And if she says no, then it's over. This poor guy, I think is sick, not so sick that he shouldn't be prosecuted. But there is also a gun that I and Ted were talking about in the green room that raises massive problems for him, as well.

VAN SUSTEREN: But, sick? Michael, everyone thinks when someone does something so insane as to be violent and kill, that the person is necessarily, "legally insane."

But this guy was going about living his life. Everything seemed perfectly normal. He's obviously pulled a fast one on his fiancee. So it doesn't sound like he is legally insane.

MICHAEL CARDOZA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, he's not legally insane, because that yardstick is, did he know right from wrong? The prosecution will easily prove that he knew right from wrong.

What is so frightening about this is that he lived among us. He fooled as family, he fooled his fiancee. It's sort of like Scott Peterson.

And that makes all of us uneasy, because is someone that's living with us, living next to us, are they potential killers? It really gives everybody that I know a very uneasy feeling. Who can you trust?

VAN SUSTEREN: Ted, any advice for the defense lawyer and for Mr. Markoff?

TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. Go in as fast as you can and try to make a deal.

VAN SUSTEREN: A deal? They will not make a deal with this guy. He put three bullets in her chest.

WILLIAMS: One other thing is he should get some good psychiatrist, because I think he will plead not guilty by reason of insanity.

VAN SUSTEREN: But, as Michael just said, that's just a lousy defense, because you have to say that you didn't know right from wrong. The guy knew right from wrong. He even tells his family last weekend, there is going to be more.

WILLIAMS: Greta, I do not know that you can say that this guy knew right from wrong.

Look, 16 pairs of panties. Think about this -- we know he was on Craigslist and he was getting these prostitutes. Why prostitutes? Because he knew that prostitutes were more likely than not not go and report in to the authorities.

And he would not have gotten caught but for him having a -

VAN SUSTEREN: And that shows the cleverness -

WILLIAMS: -- killed this woman.

VAN SUSTEREN: -- or at least not thinking that he is not going to get caught, that he knew right from wrong.

WILLIAMS: How many sane people you know have 16 pairs of panties under their bed?

VAN SUSTEREN: That's not insanity to have 16 pairs of panties. It's weird.

GRIMM: Evidence that he knew right from wrong is that he tried to commit suicide. So he's suffering from grief. They can bring it in as evidence, that he tried to commit suicide.

VAN SUSTEREN: Michael?

CARDOZA: Sure, the grief he was caught. What Ted's talking about, and the way it might work, is to engage the psychiatrists and then use them to bring down the degree from a first to a second, maybe to a manslaughter. But that's the best you will do in this case. You have the gun, you have the panties, and you have those flex cuffs in his room that match the flex cuffs on the victim.

VAN SUSTEREN: I don't know. That might "be the best bet." But I'll tell you one thing is that we used to refer to those as slow pleas, trials like this, because it might as well as be a plea of guilty, because the evidence is piling up.

CARDOZA: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, let's move on to Casey Anthony. Bernie, they testing, they took like 22 pairs of her shoes, tested them for soil, and the soil isn't from where the remains were found, Casey Anthony.

GRIMM: Yes. It came up negative on that. And on the testing for inhalants, they tested for everything but -

VAN SUSTEREN: On the hair.

GRIMM: On the hair, they subject to mass spectrometering. And people that watch this show that take chemistry and paid attention in biology will understand this. I didn't, and I don't think Ted did either.

But, yes, it sort of came up with, the way these FBI reports read, they talk in double negatives, so they're hard to read. But it seems to me it came up with nothing.

VAN SUSTEREN: Ted, that hurts the prosecution's case if their theory is that the child had chloroform. They do the test on the hair, and there is no chloroform residue in the hair.

WILLIAMS: I think they really have a serious problem in this.

What they have going for them is we know it -- and by the way, I was down in Orlando at the home of this, of Caylee Anthony. What they have going more than anything else is that this woman did not report her child missing for a month.

VAN SUSTEREN: And she was out getting a tattoo and living it up.

WILLIAMS: And living it up. And that's what is going to harm her. The physical evidence right now is just not there.

VAN SUSTEREN: Michael, I will give you the last word of this.

CARDOZA: That case will come down to an argument to the jury, because the defense is going to pound away at the scientific evidence, and that being the lack of scientific evidence to prove that she did it. There will be that to death in an argument.

VAN SUSTEREN: And, of course, I think also they are going to replay probably some of those jail interviews where she looks anything but remorseful. She looks like a really lousy, rotten mother, and the jury is going to absolutely hate her, and the defense lawyer will try to say pay attention to the evidence--

CARDOZA: It's not enough.

VAN SUSTEREN: -- it's not whether they hate you. I am just saying that it hurts. I didn't say that it was enough, but that it hurts very much.

Panel, thank you.

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