This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," January 21, 2009. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, huge new developments in the Caylee Anthony murder case. In my hands, I am holding 311 pages, new documents just unsealed in the investigation, new information about the case that will stun you, confirmation about duct tape across the child's mouth. Now we know the items found in the bag with the little girl's remains. It is chilling. Plus, text messages sent and received by Casey around the time Caylee was reported missing. And wait until you hear the things Casey was telling law enforcement within the first 24 hours of her mother reporting the toddler missing. We know it all. We have these documents.
Holly Bristow, reporter for WOFL, joins us live. Holly, first of all, why do we even have all these documents? And why are they released right now?
HOLLY BRISTOW, WOFL: It's Florida law. It's public information. And under the Florida sunshine laws, they have to release these, if we request them, and we've been requesting everything that's pretty been able to come out of the sheriff's office and the state attorney's office. So first they release it to the defense. They give them a day or two to look at it, and then they hand it over to us.
VAN SUSTEREN: What about the timing? I mean, it's -- I mean, it's almost like a document dump in a civil case, I mean, like, dumping 311 documents all at once. I mean, a lot of the documents go back to -- here's one going back to July 16, of 2008, and we're just getting that now. Why can Florida hang onto it that long if you have a sunshine law?
BRISTOW: Well, you know, they basically say that once they're done with something in an investigation, once they've gone through and finished their looking into what they need to look into on those, then they release them to us. They make sure, once we get our hands on it, it's nothing that we're going to be able to mess up, I guess, in terms of what they're working on at the moment.
But certainly, some interesting things in there. I'm sure the things that you probably noticed are the same things that I noticed, number one being the duct tape around the mouth, which we've been reporting all along, but now we're finding out that there was a heart-shaped sticker that was attached to the duct tape. They didn't find that until the evidence had been sent up to the FBI labs in Quantico, Virginia, and specialists were looking at the duct tape, saw the imprint from the sticky stuff on the back of the sticker on the actual duct tape. And then we find out that they actually found the sticker at the crime scene. It's just amazing, some of the things that are coming out in this, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: And you know, it's even extraordinary -- I mean, the documents start out -- at least, the order in which I've done it -- I'll take -- one of them is -- they chronicle interviews that they've done with potential witnesses. One is Iason Donavo (ph), or something like that. (INAUDIBLE) that's a friend of Casey. And this talks about how Casey was perfectly fine, nothing seemed out of the ordinary, that on July 5, that this friend talk to Casey, everything seemed perfectly fine, saw -- saw Casey on July 5, and she never mentioned that she was looking for her missing child. I mean, it chronicles just friends who said that she seemed normal, everything was fine. Meanwhile, her child is missing and presumably now murdered.
BRISTOW: Person after person has said that. From that person that you just mentioned -- that was actually the first time I really remember reading about him in discovery. Apparently, they had had dinner together on July 5, along with Casey's boyfriend and some to her folks.
Some other things that were interesting in that discovery -- remember, this Tony Lazzaro guy, she started -- or she met him in May. She started dating him in June. She's pretty much spending every day in July with him, and he has no idea that this child is missing. Then all of a sudden, her mother comes up, comes banging on the door, Where's my daughter? Where's my granddaughter? He has no idea that the granddaughter's missing.
So we actually have text messages from him the morning after Cindy Anthony went to his house to confront Casey and get her and bring her home. She's then at home the next morning. He's sending her text messages, like, What's going on? Caylee's missing? I've been your boyfriend. I care about you. I care about your daughter. Why is this the first that I'm hearing of this? Have you told the police? Why weren't you looking for her? I mean, very revealing things that show that she was just going on, living a very normal life.
And it goes along with a lot of the video that we've seen. You probably remember some of the previous released discovery, the DVDs that were released, that showed her going on a shopping spree at Target. I mean, this is just normal life. You never would have had any idea that her child was missing and presumably dead.
VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, and I'm just -- you mentioned the text messages. Just to give the viewers an idea, if you can flash on this -- the camera -- we have page after page after page of these text messages that she had. And she was just living presumably a -- I mean, what seemed like a, quote, "normal" life. Even the tattoo people we talked to, who'd given her a tattoo in early July, said everything seemed perfectly normal. Nobody saw anything out of the ordinary.
But Holly, thank you. And we'll see you soon, Holly.
BRISTOW: Anytime, Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us live, forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden and former LAPD homicide detective Mark Fuhrman.
Gentlemen, you both have -- have these lists of documents, these 300-plus pages. And I guess the most chilling for me, although -- and Holly mentioned we knew about it before, but -- but we now have for sure -- we know exactly what it was they found in the -- about three tenths of a mile from the home where the child was living.
Here's what's the most chilling to me. This is in the affidavit from the sheriff's department. It says that they found something less than three tenths of a mile from the child's -- Hopespring Drive. And it goes on to say that they possibly confirmed that the skull with attached hair was human and that of a small child.
The police saw -- law enforcement arrived on the scene and confirmed that the skull appeared to be that of a small child. It goes on to say the remains appeared to have originally been within a black plastic garbage bag and within a cloth laundry hamper bag. There was a piece of silver duct tape over the mouth area of the skull. The skull, bag and loose bones were collected and taken to the Orange County medical examiner's.
So the confirmation, Dr. Baden, of what we all thought. What are the clues that you find in here?
DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, it confirms that the duct tape holds onto a lot of evidence -- the hair, the heart-shaped sticker. But we have to be careful. What you read is exactly right. That's what the police officer is telling the judge. But when you look later on, a couple of pages later, the doctor at the medical examiner's office, who also noted the area of heart shape absence of -- on the duct tape, commented that they duct tape -- he doesn't say it's on the face. He says on the hair, that both ends are on the hair.
Now, maybe it was on the face, but that's the police officer's version of what the findings are. So there was duct tape. It was on the hair. The hair was still present on the skull, and they got a lot of evidence from that duct tape.
VAN SUSTEREN: Mark, what caught your attention in these 300-and-some pages?
MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Well, there were a couple things, Greta. One is the duct tape that Michael Baden was just talking about. The interesting part about that is I'd like to know, just exactly as he does, how it was secured. And did it look like it was intentionally put over the mouth area or the nose area? And was it post-mortem? Was somebody trying to stage the appearance of a kidnapped and murdered child? That's one thing.
There's also soil samples that were actually taken from the trunk of Casey's car and a leaf from another vehicle. They're very aware of trying to figure out just exactly what soil and vegetation actually went with the area where the child was found and other areas that they have looked and Casey's cell phone was pinging, the back yard of the Anthony home. All these things. I think they're very much aware of trying to place the child before she died and after her death, but I believe they think she was moved at least once.
BADEN: Well, Greta...
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, it's interesting because one of the -- one of the -- if people in the -- they list the witnesses they've interviewed, and they interviewed a Debbie Polisano (ph), who is Cindy, the grandmother's, supervisor. And she's quoted as saying in these records, just to show how they pieced this together -- and she said -- "Cynthia also told Debbie Polisano there was a really, really bad smell in the car" -- you know, again sort of piecing this together, the whole idea that the -- that the child had been in the trunk, that being the allegation. Dr. Baden?
BADEN: Yes. One thing, though, that impressed me most in looking through this very quickly was that it seems to support Kronk's statements that in August, he had seen two different bags, possibly, from his descriptions, and even a vinyl pool cover in that area. And the later findings, or what's described by the police, indicate that what Kronk was saying was true. Now, how he knew that, that's something else. But it does support the fact, to my view, that the baby was there the whole time.
VAN SUSTEREN: I mean -- yes, go ahead, Mark.
FUHRMAN: You know, the meter reader in August that phones in these clues. The deputy goes out, even with the meter reader, and they can't find exactly what he saw. But even if there was a black bag that he saw or a white bag -- a white bag was recovered with the child or a black bag -- doesn't matter what combo it is -- you still can't say that it was that bag August, the bag in which you found in December. There's no way to identify that.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, the thing that's bothered me -- and it's, like, I'm -- I mean, and I don't want to be too graphic, and we discussed this the other night. But if you -- you know -- you know, you leave things in your garbage can, and if you don't secure it really well, at least in many areas of the country, you know, it gets -- animals get in there and shred it and throw it all over. And I don't quite understand why everything seemed to be in the bag, but I guess we'll learn when the experts finally hit the witness stand on it (INAUDIBLE)
Dr. Baden and Mark, if you'll both stick around, we have much more coming up with both of you.
Now, the clues in this case aren't just found in these new documents. They are found also in the actions of Casey herself. August 14, 2008, Casey is visited in jail by her parents, George and Cindy. The jailed mother gets furious with her mother, her own mother, and you have a burst of emotion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE'S MOTHER: But right now, this is the most agitated and frustrated that I've been.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE'S GRANDFATHER: You're the one who can control everything. You're the one that...
CASEY ANTHONY: No, I...
CASEY ANTHONY: Dad, please!
GEORGE ANTHONY: Sweetie, OK...
CASEY ANTHONY: I am completely...
GEORGE ANTHONY: I'm not trying to get you upset. I'm trying to talk to you.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, but -- I am upset now. I'm completely upset. One, the media is going to have a frickin' field day with this.
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, they're not. They're not...
CASEY ANTHONY: I wasn't even -- I wasn't even supposed to take this.
CASEY ANTHONY: Let me speak for a second! Dad, I let everybody talk.
GEORGE ANTHONY: OK.
CASEY ANTHONY: They're not releasing it? Well, I hope not. I'll keep saying whatever I have to about the police...
GEORGE ANTHONY: OK, here's Mom. Hold on one second.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... So they don't let it go. Can someone let me -- come on!
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE'S GRANDMOTHER: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down, baby.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody's letting me speak! You want me to talk, then...
CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I'll listen to you.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... Give me three seconds to say something.
CINDY ANTHONY: Go, sweetheart.
CASEY ANTHONY: I'm not in control over any of this because I don't know what the hell's going on. I don't know what's going on. My entire life has been taken from me! Everything has been taken from me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: We have much more of Casey Anthony in her own words coming up in three minutes, right after this break.
Meanwhile, we want you to log on and talk to us through Twitter.com. You can send any comments you have about the show to GretaWire by tweeting us. You can also sign up to get tweets every time we post a blog on GretaWire, which is often. It's often -- it's probably 10 or 15 times a day.
Coming up: Uh-oh! Caylee (SIC) Anthony's lawyer is now slugging it out, not with the prosecutor but with the Florida bar. Jose Baez is out swinging after ethics complaints are filed against him. You'll hear from Baez. He is not taking this lying down.
Plus, something you never want to see from the inside, but it is interesting from the outside, a holding cell in the Orlando courthouse. Caylee (SIC) Anthony gets locked in a holding cell like this while she waits to go to court hearing. You will see for yourself.
VAN SUSTEREN: Casey Anthony is sitting in jail, and tonight we know more of the reason why, 311 pages of new documents released, giving brand new information about this investigation.
Now, here's Casey Anthony in a visit with her parents on August 14, 2008. This was before she was charged with her daughter Caylee's murder.
VAN SUSTEREN: Dr. Baden and Mark Fuhrman are still with us. Mark, in looking at the documents, it's sort of interesting because in the beginning, when the -- in the affidavit, it talks about how the police officers went through -- she said -- the first night, Casey gave a story about that she worked at Universal, what her day was like, and how the police officers spent 24 hours with her, almost, going over to these places and just proving she was lying.
FUHRMAN: Well, Greta, I mean, that is the first level of consciousness of guilt, when you can't tell the truth about the most innocent things in your life. It just goes downhill, and it has gone downhill for Casey Anthony from that point. And she also ate up time. And for what reason, I have no idea, other than to evade the obvious, her being a suspect in the disappearance of her child.
So these detectives were -- actually, I was very impressed with these documents, Greta. I think they went right down the line. I think they went as quickly as they could, considering the roadblocks that were thrown in front of them. They issued -- they got a lot of search warrants and they collected a lot of evidence. It was rather impressive.
VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, I also was (INAUDIBLE) Now, granted, we've only seen -- we only see one side with these documents. It's only the prosecution/sheriff's department's side. But here's one thing that I thought was very interesting. That first night, July 15th, when the grandmother called and said she was missing and the sheriff's department responded, as the -- as this affiant -- as this law enforcement officer was leaving, according to the affidavit, it says, "Prior to leaving, I was approached by her father, George, who stressed his concern that his daughter's holding information back. And he and his wife, the defendant's mother, fear something may have happened to Caylee."
So right from the beginning, they may not have been suspicious of their daughter, but they sure were suspicious she wasn't telling it all -- Dr. Baden.
BADEN: Yes. I think the biggest hurdle that her lawyers are going to have is all the lies she told. And she's so -- her presentation is so hard for a jury to relate to. That is, in addition to all the facts, her actions and her not telling the truth and her evading everything are going to be a big hurdle for any jury to be sympathetic with her.
VAN SUSTEREN: Here's another line from the affidavit. It says -- the sheriff's department -- "In the course of this investigation, I received calls from several persons who know the defendant. All claim she is a habitual liar, and she's been known to steal from friends in the past." Not a -- not a heavy endorsement, is it, Mark.
FUHRMAN: No, it's not a heavy endorsement, but it's not an indictment, either. I think detectives take all that with a grain of salt. And they also consider her age, and she's single. And you have to consider the people that are actually giving this description of her. But Greta, when you see this...
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, how about this one? How about this one? And I'm going to take the last word on this one in this segment. But the law enforcement who spoke to her said, "(INAUDIBLE) at no time during any of the above interviews did the defendant show any obvious emotion as to the loss of her child. She did not cry or give any indication she was legitimately worried about her child's safety. She remained stoic and monotone during a majority of our contacts."
When the jury hears that, it's going to be devastating. And I took the last word on that. Sorry, gentlemen. I got to go. Thank you both.
Now we have a tape of Casey Anthony visiting with her parents on August 14, 2008. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I know what I'm honestly up against. You guys understand what I'm honestly up against. And with keeping me here you're not helping me help myself.
CINDY ANTHONY: Well (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: I'm sorry to say that. Huh?
CINDY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) We don't have the means to get you out anyway, sweetheart. We don't.
CASEY ANTHONY: I understand that, but the opportunity was there and it wasn't taken advantage of and...
CINDY ANTHONY: We didn't have an opportunity. I don't know where you're hearing that.
CASEY ANTHONY: Just give Dad the phone, please. I'm sorry. I don't want to get frustrated. Just give Dad the phone.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Hey, sweetie.
CASEY ANTHONY: This is seriously the first time that I've been angry, that I've been this frustrated to where I -- I can't even think straight at this moment. Throughout this entire thing, I was pissed off that day at the police station. I was mad when all of that happened, but I tried to look at things objectively.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAN SUSTEREN: Up next: When Casey Anthony goes to court, just like every other defendant, she gets locked in a holding cell. You will see exactly what it's like for the jailed mother. You get a behind-the-scenes tour of the Orange County courthouse.
And then, under the headline "Never dull," Casey Anthony's lawyer is now under investigation by the Florida bar. What is Jose Baez accused of by the bar? Baez responds to his critics. You hear that coming up.
VAN SUSTEREN: Better to see this from where you are, watching TV, than from inside. You go deep inside, though, the Orange County courthouse holding cell, a behind-the-scenes look at a holding cell just like the one Casey Anthony is locked in when she goes to court. It's clean but not exactly the Ritz.
VAN SUSTEREN: When Casey is brought up to go to court, she would come up in a private elevator like this, like all inmates, and then brought from here over to a holding cell. And you can see it says "Holding" right here. And inside that holding cell, there are two benches and a toilet and toilet paper.
In many instances, I suspect (INAUDIBLE) multiple defendants in, depending on the nature of the case. (INAUDIBLE) Casey be alone because she's -- would have a high-profile case. But oftentimes, in cell blocks, they have to put a bunch of people (INAUDIBLE) go to the courtroom.
Now, (INAUDIBLE) if she should have a visit while she's waiting for the court or jury trial, they would come into the attorney/inmate interview room right here. And you can see that there's another glass over there and a telephone and she would speak to her lawyer and would have a conference and also be able to speak privately (INAUDIBLE) unlike -- unlike the social visits that inmates have, which are recorded here (INAUDIBLE) Florida, your visit with your lawyer is private and confidential, so that's very different.
VAN SUSTEREN: Today, we have 311 pages of new documents released in the Caylee Anthony murder case. Let's bring in the legal panel tonight. Diana Tennis is an Orlando defense attorney. Also with us, criminal defense attorney Jeff Brown and Florida prosecutor Pam Bondi. Nice to see both of you.
Diana, first to you. These documents that were released, is there any significance to the timing? I mean, some of them go back to last summer, they're dated last summer, and we're just getting them now, and Florida is supposed to surrender (INAUDIBLE) because of your very open rules. Why now? Any particular reason?
DIANA TENNIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't know if there's any particular reason that it's now, but I had the same question, frankly, that you did when I started reading through them earlier today. Many of them seemed like -- related to events that were months ago. And frankly, I think they should probably have been provided prior to now. I think the whole leak to the media has been a little slow, and certainly, the discovery to the defense looks like it's been slow to me.
VAN SUSTEREN: Jeff, the thing that I think is -- I mean, you've got the forensics. That's one part of the case, which can be quite damning (INAUDIBLE) We haven't seen the test results or anything like that, but it doesn't help, for instance, that it was three tenths of a mile from the home.
But when you read things like that the detectives talked to her that night and as -- and she's described as having no emotion, just stoic, in their description -- she's out getting a tattoo, we know. She's out clubbing. Her friends are in here saying she was acting normal, she never mentions it. What do you tell a jury about that one?
JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, we always have these in trials. We always have these situations that are just tough to explain. But I think you have to start in voir dire in jury selection, and I think you have to start to educate the people that just because somebody's opinion is that she's not showing emotion doesn't mean she doesn't have emotion. Everybody shows it differently.
But I think you have to start in jury selection, working with your jury, letting them understand that there may be a different story or a different side to all of these issues and that they just can't believe an officer that says she had no emotion. Maybe she's one of these people that holds it all inside and she released her emotion by herself or in the cell at night. So I think you go to start in jury selection educating this jury that there's going to be a different side to -- or different side of the coin for a lot of these issues.
VAN SUSTEREN: Pam, what strikes me about it -- and you're a prosecutor -- we even have phone numbers, I mean, that we're getting of witnesses, addresses, these text messages. It's unbelievable. I mean, nothing's blacked out for us. I mean, it's almost open season for us now on all these people.
PAM BONDI, PROSECUTOR: And Greta, that's how Florida law operates. We have one of the broadest public records laws in the country.
And back to what Jeff said about jury selection -- I think that's a great defense strategy, but the prosecutors are truly going to have an advantage in this case just given her demeanor and her actions. And look at, I mean, even all these text messages, Greta. Her friends, on the day that they learn that Caylee's missing, all her good friends are saying, What? I had lunch with you and you didn't even mention your daughter's gone.
VAN SUSTEREN: Diana, what -- the question I threw to Jeff Brown -- you got any suggestion for Jose Baez? Because, you know, this does not look like -- I mean, I've seen women who are missing their children in a shopping mall for five minutes who are absolutely, you know, psychotic, upset. This woman's out getting tattoos.
TENNIS: Agreed. What Jose Baez needs right now is a time machine so he can go back about five months and redo this whole thing altogether. He did not leave himself any options. He did not leave himself a mental health out. He did not leave himself a, "It was an accident with a botched cover-up job." He did not leave himself any alternatives there at the beginning. And I think that has really boxed him into a corner.
You know, unfortunately, he was on TV a week before the body is found, claiming this child's alive. That doesn't give you a whole lot of extra credibility to go into jury selection with. And you got to do with what you have, at this point, but I think he needs a time machine.
VAN SUSTEREN: I think you might be right. Panel, if you'll stand by, we have much more.
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