Univ. of Colorado Pres. Hank Brown Defends Ward Churchill Firing

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," July 26, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Tuesday Ward Churchill, a tenured professor at the University of Colorado, was fired. The infamous professor, best known for comparing 9/11 victims to — calling them little Eichmanns, was let go for plagiarism and falsification. However, Churchill believes his civil rights were violated and is vowing to take legal action.

Joining us now, the man who had Churchill fired, president of the University of Colorado and former senator, Hank Brown.

I don't call you Mr. President or Senator — which would you prefer?

HANK BROWN, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO: Call me Hank, Alan.

COLMES: Thank you very much for being with us, sir. Is there any doubt that, had Ward Churchill not made that comparison between the victims of 9/11 and little Eichmanns, that he would not have been facing this kind of a fire from his detractors?

BROWN: Absolutely. The lawsuit is simply a fraud. It's a smokescreen to cover up what happened.

He was caught creating academic fraud, literally making up history and fraudulently planting stories and misrepresenting sources to change the history of this country.

What happened was, when the university was flooded with complaints about his research, it looked into it. And what ensued was two and a half years of more due process than anyone could ever want.

COLMES: Was this instigated though, by those who were opposing him because they couldn't stand the terrible, despicable things? And they are despicable. But it's also free speech. But they couldn't stand the things he was saying? Is that what really inspired people to look further into who Ward Churchill is?

BROWN: There's no question that being a celebrity or being famous or infamous caused a lot more attention to him than he would have had, but think about the consequences when you say, as long as you're famous or infamous, that you can get away with whatever you want.

There is no question that he is guilty of absolute fraud, and when you look at the record, through the three hearings that he had, opportunities to cross-examine, to testify, never once did he apologize for what he had done. Never once did he volunteer to correct the record.

As a matter of fact, the record speaks loudly that he's going to continue the fraudulent activity in the state and the university.

COLMES: What about the fact that the faculty recommended that he be censured and demoted and not fired, contrary to what the regents suggested on Tuesday?

BROWN: We had three separate faculty committees review it in depth, more than 20 faculty members. One hundred percent of them found him guilty of the charges.

There was a split on those faculty members, though, as to what the appropriate punishment was.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Hey, Hank...

BROWN: But think about the consequences of retaining someone who continues to commit fraud. Absolutely a nightmare.

HANNITY: Hey, Hank, by the way, let me applaud you, first of all. You made the right decision, firing this guy. And I read your piece today, and you made a compelling case, but I don't understand one thing.

If we're sending our kids to school, and we want to give them the best academic experience, we need to have the best teachers. Somebody that would refer to the victims of 9/11, that they're anything but innocent, and use the term "little Eichmanns" — I don't understand. You've got to explain this to me. That, in and of itself, to me is a firing offense.

You know and I know that you could hire people that are more qualified, that could do a better job. Why not just fire him for cause on that?

BROWN: I think, as you know, when someone gets tenure at a university, it is very difficult to ever change that or go through the process we have. We’ll have spent millions of dollars and two and a half years of diversion going through this process. So it doesn't happen very often.

HANNITY: But wouldn't — you know something? I'm not trying to spend the university's money, but wouldn't it be worth it for somebody that is so revoltingly insulting towards innocent victims that were murdered by the enemies of this country — wouldn't it be the right thing to do to make sure you can get that man and his influence away from your students?

BROWN: The problem is you end up following the law. And a former profession, absolutely, I think you would want to look at that law. But right now, the court cases say it's possible to fire someone on their views, but only in extreme circumstances, and that was the route we chose not to take at the university.

HANNITY: Yes, well, in my view, I think he inflicted so much pain, unnecessarily, on these families, the man is unfit to be a professor anywhere, anyplace, anytime.

I'm glad you did it. You know, I'm glad there were other reasons to do it. But I think the original statements would have justified the firing of him and would have been worth whatever amount of money you had to spend to see to it for that to happen.

COLMES: All right. Senator and President Brown, we thank you very much for being with us tonight. Thank you very much for your time.

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