This is a partial transcript from "On the Record," March 7, 2007, that has been edited for clarity.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, GUEST HOST: All right, here we go. We have an exclusive tour now of the home where Howard K. Stern, Anna Nicole, and her son, Daniel, all vacationed together. They stayed there right around the time that it's believed Anna Nicole became pregnant with her daughter, Dannielynn.
This tour may shed some light on Anna Nicole's relationship with Howard K. Stern. But you decide. The home belonged to Gina Shelly. She was a very close friend of Anna Nicole's. Gina gave Greta a special tour. Take a look.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, "ON THE RECORD": When was Anna Nicole here?
GINA SHELLY, FRIEND OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH: Last Christmas.
VAN SUSTEREN: So about how long...
SHELLY: December of 2005.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So let's start back here in the bedroom.
Was she alone, or did Daniel — Daniel wasn't here.
SHELLY: Yes, Daniel was here...
VAN SUSTEREN: Oh, was he?
SHELLY: ... Howard, and her assistant, Nate (ph), and the four dogs.
VAN SUSTEREN: Who stayed in the mother-in-law suite?
SHELLY: Just Anna.
VAN SUSTEREN: Not Howard?
VAN SUSTEREN: Not Daniel?
SHELLY: No, just Anna.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. When she was here, everything seemed perfectly normal, as far as whatever normal is for Anna Nicole? She wasn't, like, staying in her bedroom, depressed? She wasn't doing drugs, anything like that?
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you ever suspect that she was doing drugs?
SHELLY: The only thing that she took when she was here last Christmas was her seizure medicine.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she say she had a history of seizures?
VAN SUSTEREN: But no methadone or anything.
SHELLY: No, not at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: And I see that the mother-in-law suite has a full refrigerator. But I mean, it was never — after it was she left, you didn't open it up and find methadone or...
SHELLY: No. (INAUDIBLE) was water, Gatorade. Just whatever she drank was in there, and some fruit.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right.
SHELLY: She ate a lot of grapefruit.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. And so then this is living room area.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she spend a lot of time back here alone, or did she interact with the family?
SHELLY: We spent a lot of time upstairs ordering Christmas presents and wrapping Christmas presents.
VAN SUSTEREN: She wasn't a recluse of any sort, I mean, as a guest, a houseguest, hiding out here or anything.
SHELLY: No. No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why did she happen to come here?
SHELLY: We invited her to come and spend Christmas with us.
VAN SUSTEREN: So she wasn't — she hadn't had a spat with Larry at that point. She'd been...
SHELLY: At that point, no.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So she — she had been dating Larry in November. He was her boyfriend in November. Then they sort of split up?
VAN SUSTEREN: Then she came out here and spent Christmas.
SHELLY: Right, with us.
VAN SUSTEREN: And then left when?
SHELLY: She left New Year's.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did Howard leave with her at New Year's?
VAN SUSTEREN: And Daniel? Or was he already gone?
SHELLY: No. They all left together.
VAN SUSTEREN: And did she ever come back here, then, and stay in this suite?
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, now we're upstairs, second floor. Daniel also stayed in the house. And is this where he stayed?
SHELLY: This is where Daniel stayed.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right.
SHELLY: He had his own bathroom.
VAN SUSTEREN: Had his own bath.
SHELLY: Had his own bathroom.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did Daniel get along with your children?
SHELLY: Oh, yes. He was always outside, skateboarding (INAUDIBLE)
doing something with the kids.
VAN SUSTEREN: And now your daughter doesn't come up here at all.
SHELLY: No. She won't come into this room now.
VAN SUSTEREN: She won't step foot it?
SHELLY: No. She says it's haunted because Daniel stayed in here. It's just, I mean, she became very close to Daniel. They spent, you know, six weeks together.
VAN SUSTEREN: How old is your daughter?
VAN SUSTEREN: And I assume that she, obviously, knows Anna Nicole is now gone?
VAN SUSTEREN: And she knew Anna very well.
SHELLY: Yes, she did. In fact, she wrote a letter and put — we had it put in the casket.
VAN SUSTEREN: Saying?
SHELLY: How much she loved her and one thing she said in the letter she said, "Anna, you know Howard K. Stern," and she spelled everything out, "is not the father of the baby." She's not seen the baby, yet. So, and she was with Anna the whole time she was pregnant and that's really bothering our children.
VAN SUSTEREN: So, your daughter wrote this note out?
VAN SUSTEREN: Who did you give it to?
SHELLY: We faxed it to Larry and Larry made sure it was in the casket.
VAN SUSTEREN: Others put notes in the casket, as well?
SHELLY: My nieces.
VAN SUSTEREN: Where did Howard stay?
SHELLY: Howard stayed right here.
VAN SUSTEREN: So, Howard's in a — this is the third bedroom.
This is the room that Howard stayed in?
SHELLY: Yeah, this is where Howard stayed, in the room with the two twin beds. And he stayed in here. He had a bathroom.
VAN SUSTEREN: So obviously, there was no romantic interest, at least as far as you knew, between...
SHELLY: Anna was way down there and Howard was way up here.
VAN SUSTEREN: And you never suspected anything?
VAN SUSTEREN: So if this was in December of 2005, she became pregnant in January `06. And so, perhaps, I mean, if he is the father, which we hope to find out soon, it would be a relationship that developed quite quickly?
SHELLY: Yeah. It has to happen overnight.
MACCALLUM: All right, well does this tour tell us anything about Anna Nicole's relationship with Howard K. Stern? And when will relearn which of Anna's lovers is Dannielynn's father? That remains a big question.
Let's bring in our legal panel.
Tonight in San Francisco former assistant D.A. Jim Hammer. In D.C. criminal defense attorneys, Ted Williams and Bernie Grimm.
Welcome, gentlemen, to all ever you.
Jim, let me start with you, what do you make of the tour? You know, we learned, basically, that they slept in separate bedrooms, at least at that time. But we've heard so much about the sort of, kind of, up and down nature of their relationship.
JIM HAMMER, FMR SAN FRANCISCO ASST D.A.: Well, it's certainly in my mind, as a former prosecutor and just a human being, raises lots of doubts about his claim that he's the father of the baby. I can't wait to see these DNA results, but I think is he going to lose that bet, Martha.
MACCALLUM: And Ted, let me go back to some of what Harvey Levin was talking about earlier, and that is that He's saying that "Big Moe," who was very much by her side, by all accounts, is now coming forward with a slightly different story. He's saying that on those last days at the Hard Rock Hotel that something was different, that Anna had taken a lot of prescription drugs, antibiotics and cold medicine that Howard's behavior changed dramatically. He basically wasn't there. What do you make of all that?
TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well you know, it's interesting, Martha, this is a, certainly a tragedy. Anna Nicole Smith was used by many while she was alive and then she was used in death by a wacky judge who was a disgrace, as far as I'm concerned, to the bench down there. And the fact about it is, the only person, and I've watched him on Greta, who appeared to have been very loyal and who I came across very intelligently was "Big Moe," so I don't know if "Big Moe" spoke to the police today or not, but he is very intelligent and he seemed to be very creditable.
And if — what we are going to have to do is reserve and wait for the autopsy. That autopsy, if there is a nexus between something illegal on or nefarious and Howard K. Stern, Howard K. Stern could, could be in a lot of trouble.
MACCALLUM: All right, Bernie, so, if you're Howard K. Stern's attorneys tonight and according to Harvey Levin they were fighting back against this story and saying it was lies. What do you start to do in terms of defending what "Big Moe" is saying?
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I guess with Howard K. Stern, I mean, you want to consider the source. I mean, "Big Moe" might have an ax to grind with Howard one way or another. I don't know. There might be some bias there. But, I guess if it was a normal client of mine, I'd tell him not to dignify it with even a response. But this is a case that's watched by millions, if not billions all over the world, 24 hours a day.
So, Howard K. Stern has already taken a shot here where I think the presumption out there is he's not the father. So I think he has to come to the forefront and pretty much drop the hammer and say, listen, I love the woman, any suggests that I left drugs around or gave her drugs which resulted in her death is just completely incredible. So, I don't think he...
MACCALLUM: Go ahead.
WILLIAMS: Martha, Bernie brings out something very interesting and,
Greta has said it over and over. And that who is the father of Dannielynn?
And Howard K. Stern, Joe Lewis said it very well, can you run, but you can't hide. Sooner or later, Howard Stern is going to have to give a DNA test.
MACCALLUM: You know, Jim, let me go back to you. That's what we all keep saying and any time any of us interviews anybody about this story we ask them, you know, why doesn't Howard Stern just fess up with that paternity test and let Dannielynn do the same thing and put all of these rumors to rest. So, what do you think — you know, if you're advising him, what are you going to tell him right now — Jim.
HAMMER: Well listen, I don't think he has any reason not to take the test, unless he's not going to like the result and in a criminal context...
MACCALLUM: Well, that's what we're assuming is the case. That's what you can only help but assume is the case.
HAMMER: You know, call me crazy. But, in a criminal setting, if a criminal defendant often doesn't want to talk because he has something to hide, Ted and Bernie will argue with me and beat me up after the show for saying that, but if he has nothing to hide in this case, take the darn test, prove you're the father. For me, I'm absolutely convinced by his refusal. But I think the more — the really important thing here, if the autopsy, as Ted says, shows that she died by a drug overdose, the police right now are digging, Martha, to find out who gave her that drugs, if Howard did it or someone else did, they can be facing manslaughter charges.
MACCALLUM: You know, Ted, you have to wonder what's going through Howard K. Stern's mind tonight. He's the baby and he's in the Bahamas.
Those are sort of the two things that he has in his corner, right now.
All kinds of talk about whether or not he and Larry Birkhead are kind of reaching some kind of deal. Do you put any credence in that? Do you think that Larry Birkhead, first of all, has any reason to work a deal with Howard K. Stern?
WILLIAMS: You know, I don't think so. And the rational basis for my representation is simply a DNA test, a very simplified test that's given in this country, as Bernie Grimm will tell you and Jim, every day, will make a decision as to who is the father of Dannielynn. What may be shocking about this is that neither one of these individuals may be the father of Dannielynn.
MACCALLUM: That could be. That could be. All right, gentlemen, thank you very much — Jim.
HAMMER: Who's the daddy?
MACCALLUM: Who's the daddy? That's the question. Ted Williams and Jim and Bernie Grimm thanks very much, guys. Good to talk to you.
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