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Hannity

Ann Coulter and Susan Estrich Join the Debate!

This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," November 4, 2005, that has been edited for clarity.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Our top story tonight, anti-American protests in Argentina turned violent this afternoon. President Bush is there for the Summit of the Americas. And he was met by 10,000 angry protesters, some of them throwing rocks and bottles and chanting "Get out, Bush" and "Bush is a fascist."

Riot police deployed in the streets and fired tear gas at angry mobs that lit at least one building on fire. According to police, there have been at least 60 arrests so far. And two police officers are reported to have minor injuries.

Protesters also heard earlier in the day from Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez who denounced President Bush as "Mr. Danger" and referred to the United States as the evil empire.

Joining us now with reaction, the author of "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)," Ann Coulter, and the author of "The Case for Hillary Clinton," FOX News contributor Susan Estrich.

It's good to have you both with us.

Ann, are you going to call these protesters? Are they all liberals? I'm just waiting for you to say that.

(LAUGHTER)

In fact, there was a whole bunch of peaceful demonstrations. And then, of course, there were some who did some violence. But this is to be expected sometimes when the president comes — go ahead.

ANN COULTER, AUTHOR: They do seem to have the same behavioral patterns...

COLMES: Oh, I see.

COULTER: ... as the great intellectual liberals in this country.

COLMES: I see.

COULTER: Part of that liberal intellectual nuance and intellectual curiosity we keep hearing about.

COLMES: Right. I was just wondering if this is going to be politicized by the right in this country, Susan Estrich, and said, "You see, that's what liberals in this country do, too." But these are not — these are militants who don't like...

SUSAN ESTRICH, AUTHOR AND FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know a single soul who's protesting down there. I don't think, Ann, that we're responsible for them. You can't blame us for what's going on down there.

I do think — I mean, what we're seeing is obviously ugly and reprehensible. I do think that one of the issues they're protesting about is the war in Iraq. And I do think that the president is vulnerable, obviously, because Karl Rove is still under investigation, he's refusing to comment about that, he's refusing to say anything about the fact that Scooter Libby is pleading in court now, and he's got his new defense team.

And you know, the more we hear, the more it becomes clear that we were lied to about the basis for this war. And at some point, there's going to have to be some reckoning here.

COLMES: Ann Coulter, the...

ESTRICH: And I think we would be in a stronger position if the president would be more forthcoming on that.

COLMES: ... a large-scale peaceful march by thousands of demonstrators first and, of course, we're seeing heinous behavior now. We're watching the burning of an American flag.

The president in this country, also, only a 35 percent approval rating based on a poll out yesterday, so he's got some real problems, doesn't he? And don't we have an obligation to try to bring in the world community to have relationships with these countries like, even, Argentina, that offered us oil, by the way, during Katrina?

COULTER: Wait. Both of you started the segment off by saying, "These aren't liberals. We're not claiming these people." And then both of you immediately said, "But they have a good point. And let me defend what they're saying," and you respond to that, so...

COLMES: I'm not defending the violent behavior.

COULTER: ... I don't think you can have it both ways. This is the intellectual left and their famed intellectual nuance.

And let's see. As for Bush's approval ratings, I think liberals are in for a big letdown when you find out he's not running again.

COLMES: You're kidding. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. He's not going to...

(LAUGHTER)

ESTRICH: I'm aware of that.

COULTER: It doesn't matter.

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: I thought he was going to try to overturn the 22nd Amendment and — so I guess that's not happening?

ESTRICH: No. No. Clinton was going to do that, I thought.

COLMES: But you didn't, Ann, because I think you're tying them to leftist thinking, but we don't know that these people demonstrating are leftists, or rightists, or have anything to do with the American political paradigm.

But don't we have a problem when we are so unpopular overseas? And isn't that something we should be conscious about?

COULTER: No.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: No.

COLMES: In fact, I wish Bush would become more unpopular and get his public approval ratings down to the single digits. He ought to be spending this moral capital.

The last time we were anything close to this unpopular was when Reagan was president and the consequence of that was the end of a 50-year-old evil empire. So, no, only good things can come out of these savages hating us.

HANNITY: Hey, Susan, I'm with...

ESTRICH: Oh, come on, Ann, you don't really believe that.

HANNITY: Hey, Susan, let me tell you something.

(CROSSTALK)

COULTER: ... I do.

ESTRICH: You're just saying that.

HANNITY: Susan, when Ronald Reagan went to modernize weaponry in Europe and wanted to deploy Persian II's and he was so outrageous, and forthright, and honest, and he actually called the Soviet Union what they were, an evil empire.

And he wouldn't go to Reykjavik. And he said, "Tear down the wall." And he said, "Peace through strength, trust and verify." The world's better off, Susan.

And they hated Reagan. And they hate George W. Bush. But the world is safer because of America blood, sweat, tears and the financial burden, right?

COULTER: Liberals.

ESTRICH: Look, look, I don't approve, and I don't think Alan approves, and I don't think anybody approves of people burning the American flag, of violent demonstrations. It's ugly to watch.

But one of the things that is also very troubling is the fact that we are hated in the world right now, and we can't justify, as in Reagan's time...

HANNITY: Susan, wait a minute. Who cares? I don't care.

ESTRICH: Let me just finish, Sean. Let me just finish, Sean. I care if we're hated for good reason.

If you can stand up and say, "Hate us because we're doing the right thing," it would be different. But when you turn around, and the president is left almost flustered saying, "Well, I can't talk about Karl Rove, because he's under investigation," what kind of defense is that?

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Susan, with all due respect...

ESTRICH: I never remember Ronald Reagan being in that situation, do you?

HANNITY: Susan, I remember liberals hating him here. I remember liberals hating him abroad.

ESTRICH: But for what reason? The reason matters.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: No, the reason was he stood up to Soviet aggression and he...

ESTRICH: This guy isn't standing up. This guy is backing down.

HANNITY: Hang on a sec. But, Susan, here's the point. Through the course of this program, you have called this president a liar. You have applied selective moral outrage.

ESTRICH: No, I've said we've been lied to.

HANNITY: Hang on a second. Selective moral outrage, and you have given your Democratic friends a pass, because they all said the same thing George Bush said, but you don't call...

ESTRICH: No.

HANNITY: John Kerry said it, John Edwards said it, Bill Clinton said it, Hillary said it. The French and the U.N. said it.

ESTRICH: No, I won't give them a pass. I won't give them a pass. I think my Democratic friends need to stand up right now and begin speaking out about this war, about what's wrong...

HANNITY: Are they liars? But are they liars like George Bush is a liar?

ESTRICH: ... about the war. No, they were lied to. They were lied to.

HANNITY: Oh, it's George Bush's fault on that?

(LAUGHTER)

ESTRICH: And they need to stand up and make clear that they were lied to, and that we were lied to, and it's time to get to the bottom of it.

HANNITY: And Bill Clinton and Hillary led the way.

ESTRICH: I mean, look...

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: All right, let me go to Ann, because we're running out of time — Ann?

COULTER: Well, I say, once again, I mean, it's charming that Alan and Susan want to dissociate themselves from these animals in Argentina. And I'm glad they're not throwing food.

But this is not only the ideas of the left, but the behavioral patterns of the left. This is always the way it is, throwing food, yelling, "Fascist, liar."

You know, whatever this anti-globalization is — I don't even know what their argument is — but it seems to me, when conservatives have a position, they write a book, they make an argument. With liberals it's just screaming, hysteria, chaos, chaos.

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: We're going to take a break. We have more to come with our guests.

(COMMERCIAL)

We continue now with the author of "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)," Ann Coulter, and also a new book out for Susan Estrich, "The Case for Hillary Clinton."

Susan, the issue is that this man is being attacked as an African- American for being a conservative. He is being treated in the most despicable way. But more importantly, Democrats, when asked to stand up and speak out against this, are silent.

Aren't you appalled by that?

ESTRICH: Well, I won't be silent. I'll say it's disgusting and disgraceful. I just think it's also so counterproductive.

Look, I can understand people, African-Americans, saying why — you know, asking themselves, "Why is he a Republican? The Republican Party or conservatives haven't done as much for African-Americans as Democrats have."

But there's no excuse for name-calling. There's no excuse for Oreo cookies.

I teach my children, you know, children, that you treat everybody with respect. If you disagree with somebody, you make the case the other way, you vote the other way. Nobody's going to force anybody to vote for Michael Steele if they don't want to. You don't have to be on his side.

HANNITY: I want to go to Susan, Susan, because this is a big — and there are numerous state Democrats. And Kweisi Mfume had an opportunity to speak out in a strong way, and he didn't do it, either, to my satisfaction.

You had Delegate Marriott, for example, a Baltimore Democrat, who said that, "Mr. Steele invites comparisons to a slave who loves his cruel master or a cookie that is black on the outside and white on the inside because of his conservative political philosophy," in her view, quote, "anti-black," because he's a conservative.

It's just outrageous to me that there's this double standard applied to Democrats on the issue of race.

ESTRICH: Well, I just think he's probably...

HANNITY: No, that's for Ann — Ann?

ESTRICH: ... you know, he's probably getting mileage out of it. I'm sorry.

HANNITY: Ann?

COULTER: Oh, sorry, that was for me.

HANNITY: Yes.

COULTER: No, I'd like to see the party of the future throwing food again. And I notice that this doesn't happen with Republican Hispanics, Republican Jews. You don't get vicious, you know, anti-Semitic or anti- Hispanic attacks on them.

It only happens — Democrats only do it to black Republicans. But, once again, there they are throwing food because they are the intellectual party.

COLMES: You Republicans are great! By the way, I'd like to disagree with my friend, Sean, here for a second on the issue of Democrats speaking out, because Kweisi Mfume did denounce racially tinged politics.

HANNITY: Not to the extent that was necessary in a case like this. No, not enough.

COLMES: Well, he said he was against...

HANNITY: Not anywhere near enough.

COLMES: He did say, "I denounce this racially tinged politics."

HANNITY: No, he didn't do it right.

COLMES: Well, that's what he said. Benjamin Cardin pledged not to use racially tinged attacks. Elijah Cummings, former head of the Black Caucus, said he planned to meet with those...

HANNITY: Chuck Schumer put it on his web site.

COLMES: Hold on. Hold on. Elijah Cummings, former head of the Black Caucus, said he would meet with those responsible and ask them not to do this.

So Democrats have spoken out, Susan.

(CROSSTALK)

ESTRICH: You can't stop irresponsible...

COULTER: Sure, you can. Why isn't it done to Republicans...

ESTRICH: ... people. What you can do is say — well, you know, I mean, Ann, what you have to do is stand up and say it's wrong.

We have to say to our kids, "Don't behave like this." You say it's wrong. I think black — a lot of African-Americans in this country are really frustrated because they're doing very poorly under the Bush administration. But that's no excuse for name-calling.

COULTER: I think that Democrats are the frustrated ones. I think that's what the food throwing is showing.

COLMES: Let me ask you this, Ann.

ESTRICH: And I don't think we're throwing food.

COLMES: All right, Ann, let me ask you this.

(CROSSTALK)

ESTRICH: I don't think we're accusing anybody of treason.

COLMES: One of the problems here is that Steele supported the governor going to a whites-only club, and that was one of the reasons some people are speaking out about him. And should he not have denounced it?

ESTRICH: And that's a pretty bad thing to do.

COLMES: Yes. And he didn't denounce him.

COULTER: I just — I think everyone...

ESTRICH: You know, I mean, what are you supposed to do when he does that?

COLMES: Ann, go ahead.

COULTER: I think everyone watching this program needs to contribute to Michael Steele, because I think if we run him on our presidential ticket, we could get the Democrats to actually start burning crosses. They're losing their minds, and this is how they are.

ESTRICH: Well, I think that's a ridiculous thing to say. I mean, I think it's really ridiculous, Ann.

HANNITY: The 1998 Missouri Democratic ad...

(CROSSTALK)

ESTRICH: You can't approve...

COULTER: ... thrown at dozens of conservatives.

(CROSSTALK)

ESTRICH: Well, but, Ann, do you approve of white-only clubs?

COULTER: This is how the Democratic Party argues, smashing windows and throwing food.

ESTRICH: Do you approve of white-only clubs, of white-only parties? You can't approve of that.

COULTER: I don't throw food at blacks and call them Uncle Sambo. Why is that question being directed at me? You're the guys who need to answer it.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: She doesn't.

We've got to go, guys. Thank you both for being with us.

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