Will Al Harbi Lead to Bin Laden?

This is a partial transcript from "On the Record" with Greta Van Susteren, July 12, 2004 that has been edited for clarity.

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GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: This is a "Fox News Alert." The Philippines is apparently bowing to the pressure of kidnappers in Iraq, this on the same day that possibly one of Usama bin Laden's most important associates surrenders. And is he talking? And will and can he tell us where Usama bin Laden is hiding?

Joining us in Washington is former U.S. ambassador to Morocco, Marc Ginsberg. Al Harbi could be hugely significant if he's talking and if he knows something.

MARC GINSBERG, FORMER U.S. AMB. TO MOROCCO, FOX NEWS FOREIGN AFFAIRS ANALYST: Two principal reasons why that may be the case, Greta. First of all, because he, in effect, surrendered inside Iran. It was his contacting the Saudi embassy in Teheran. So there may be other Al Qaeda operatives. We've long suspected that members of the bin Laden family would be inside Iran, and it's indicative of what Iran is doing, providing sanctuary to Al Qaeda operatives. Secondly, he is married to the daughter of Ayman Al Zawahiri, who is the No. 2 in, actually, Al Qaeda -- you know, the man who always is seen next to bin Laden.

VAN SUSTEREN: And his voice has been on many audiotapes.

GINSBERG: His voice has been on a lot of videotapes and it's clear that perhaps he would be able to help perhaps tell the Saudi authorities where, indeed, Ayman Al Zawahiri is, and perhaps then where bin Laden may be hiding. I've always suspected that we've been focusing so much attention on the Afghani-Pakistan border and not the Iranian-Afghani border, where many of these operatives have been given safe haven by Afghani warlords and Islamic militants and the Taliban that are still operating with the connivance of Iran.

VAN SUSTEREN: Obviously, it's been almost three years since 9/11, so bin Laden can move around tremendously, assuming he's even still alive. But even if he can provide us information where he was in that videotape, it may be a small piece of intelligence that may help us.

GINSBERG: Absolutely. And of course, he wasn't operationally involved in Al Qaeda, but he was a religious authority that essentially was giving bin Laden the religious dictum, the Fatwas to justify the killing, so to speak, and that's why he was this jolly, happy-go-lucky man sitting next to bin Laden after 9/11.

VAN SUSTEREN: And of course, I mean, it's not insignificant that he's -- I mean, he apparently must be breaking somewhat from bin Laden, if he's surrendering to the Saudis and taking amnesty.

GINSBERG: Absolutely. I mean, the fact that the Saudis have granted this amnesty -- he wasn't even on the list that the Saudis were after. They were shocked.

VAN SUSTEREN: So why do you think he did this?

GINSBERG: I suspect because, listen: The man was paralyzed. He really couldn't move around. I suspect that he felt that he wanted to return to his homeland. Maybe, indeed, he came to the conclusion that there was nowhere for him to go but to perhaps surrender, ultimately. I suspect that, in the end, a man like him, who has been on the lam so many years, basically decided perhaps maybe the Saudis would grant him some sort of amnesty.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, switch gears. A Bulgarian has been executed by a terrorist group. There's a deadline for the other Bulgarian, a truck driver who is -- has also been taken custody. And we're hearing tonight that the Philippines apparently is bowing to pressure from the terrorists. They're going to withdraw troops early. Stunning?

GINSBERG: Stunning, inglorious, joining that list of countries, like Spain that essentially capitulated to terrorism in Iraq. It's an enormous threat to the United States and others to watch the Philippines which, by the way, has had an Islamic militant terrorist organization in Abu Sayyef operating and killing many, many of the Filipinos that have been caught and targeted by Al Qaeda-like operatives inside the Philippines. And here they are, they gave support to the United States in Iraq, are now pulling out because of this threat against...

VAN SUSTEREN: Why? Why do you think that…

GINSBERG: Because of the unpopularity of the war in Iraq in countries like the Philippines. There's no doubt about, President Arroyo has been under enormous domestic political influence from opponents of her support of Washington.

VAN SUSTEREN: What's the story about -- at latest -- We hear that money's being offered in exchange for them. We hear about hostages, but there are a lot more hostages than we hear about.

GINSBERG: Oh, gosh. You know, the one thing that I think Americans don't realize, that for every foreign hostage that's taking place, we have sort of the minor criminal elements that are stealing children, Iraqi children off the streets, and stealing -- and in effect, kidnapping others and selling them up to the line to these militant groups. So in other words, they may kidnap, for example, an Iraqi who may be a prominent Iraqi and then selling them up to the more foreign militant hostage groups in order to extract even more ransom and more demands from the Iraqi government. For every one hostage that is being kidnapped that is a foreigner, there are 10 Iraqi innocents that are being kidnapped by criminal element organizations inside Iraq and being sold to these foreign militants.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, 10 seconds. Getting better or worse there?

GINSBERG: I think it's getting better for one reason -- at least, I'm hoping -- my intuition's telling me it's getting better -- because the interim government has now been able to convince Iraqis to go after these foreign jihadists themselves.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Ambassador Ginsberg, always nice to see you. Thank you, sir.

GINSBERG: Thanks, Greta.

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