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'Glenn Beck': History of Nonviolence

This is a rush transcript from "Glenn Beck," April 20, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GLENN BECK, HOST: I have to tell you, sometimes this job sucks beyond belief. Other times, it is the coolest job in the world.

Tonight, I was telling — I was telling my niece, I said, tonight, I get to go home and say to my wife, I spent an hour today with Martin Luther King's — Martin Luther King, Jr.'s niece, a rock legend and one of the smartest guys I've ever met.

Joining me now: Dr. Alveda King, pastoral associate at Priests for Life. She is the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King. The daughter of King's brother, A.D. King.

And music legend — this has never happened before — you keep your randy hands to yourself.

TED NUGENT, ROCKER: This is our first date, Glenn.

BECK: And music legend, Ted Nugent.

And then, joining us from Princeton, Princeton University's McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence, Robert George.

Wow!

All right. So, here's why I collected you three. I've collected you because Dr. King, you know history, you were there.

DR. ALVEDA KING, NIECE OF DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: Absolutely.

BECK: And I want to talk about history. Martin Luther King had it nailed. I'm convinced he has the answer for today.

KING: Absolutely.

BECK: Nuge, you're here because you're an outspoken guy and you are also — I think a lot of people to me would go, he's a gun nut.

NUGENT: Have you noticed that?

BECK: Yes. I have noticed that. But you're also dedicated to peace and sometimes — it sounds like —

NUGENT: Absolute nonviolence.

BECK: Yes.

NUGENT: Absolute nonviolence and peace and demonstrating "We the People" in the most peaceable way we can.

BECK: Right.

And then I have Robert George — because, Robert, you are — you are just a — you are a guy that consults with presidents and popes and is a big thinker. And I thought you could also help kind of stitch all of this together so we could help the American people. So —

ROBERT GEORGE, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR: Well, thank you for inviting me on to the show, Glenn.

BECK: You bet.

Let me start with Dr. King.

Do you see parallels between the 1960s and today?

KING: There are parallels between the 1960s and now, because during the 1960s, people were being slaughtered, their lives were being taken, there was violence, greed, drugs were rising — just all of this. And my uncle was saying, you've got to come back to faith, hope and love. Now, you get the translation and say faith, hope and charity — faith, hope and love.

And he got that from his father, Daddy King. And he got that from his ancestors, you know? And so, coming forth, you've got to love each other and you have to have faith. And you never lose hope. Even when things are really, really, really bad — there's always hope.

So today, we have the same conditions. People being slaughtered, war and rumors of war, abortion, drugs, sicknesses, disease — all of this is going on. Greed — America has gone crazy with greed. I really have to say that.

And so, in the midst of all of this, people caring more about themselves than the least of these, than others. And so, the answer is going to always be the same: You've got to have faith. You've got to begin to continue to hope and not give up on others.

And then the other thing: You hate evil, but you don't hate the people that do evil. So, hate has to go out the window.

BECK: Let me go to you, Ted, because that's where I think people confuse the truth with hate. I don't — I don't have — if I met President Obama, he's the president of the United States and he is a human being.

NUGENT: You respect him.

BECK: I greatly disagree with, but I don't hate the man. So —

NUGENT: It's pretty simple. You know, I'm honored to be here with Dr. King.

KING: Thanks.

NUGENT: And I think it's best to just quote Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., if I get it accurate: Those of us who engage in nonviolent direct action are not responsible for the tension. We're merely bringing to the surface a tension that already exists.

That's the experiment in self-government where corruption metastasizes if not monitored by the boss, we the people. The boss is coming in and saying, you guys are out of control. We want accountability. We want you to conduct yourself in responsible manner the way our families do. And that's where you're going to get peace and love. That's where you're going to get hope and faith in a government that represents you accurately.

So, if there's tension, we are not the cause of tension. We are the monitors of tension. And we want it reduced to a peaceful assembly.

BECK: So, Professor George, Martin Luther King, if I'm not mistaken, said that he actually didn't mind tension.

GEORGE: Tension is necessary, yes.

BECK: Yes. But everybody else is trying to — well, you have Bill Clinton saying, you know, you can't speak out. You can't say these things. You have a responsibility.

So, in other words, if any nut-job goes and grabs a gun, then I'm responsible.

KING: You have an obligation to speak out.

BECK: You have a duty.

KING: You know, the question comes back: Am I my brother's keeper? Well, of course, you're your brother's keeper. And if you see your brother about to be harmed and somebody is doing something, you must speak out. It takes courage to do that. Then you have to come out of yourself to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: A selfish person says, hey, me and my four at home and no more and whatever happens to you is OK. But it can't be that way. It cannot be that way.

BECK: Professor George — let me go — if we can bring it up on the screen the line from the Manhattan Doctrine. Can you explain what the Manhattan Doctrine is?

GEORGE: That's the Manhattan Declaration, Glenn, and that's a declaration was put together by leading Catholic, evangelical, Protestant and Eastern Orthodox Christians, pledging themselves to three great foundational principles of our civilization. One is the sanctity of human life in all stages and conditions.

BECK: OK.

GEORGE: The dignity of marriage as the conjugal union of husband and wife is the second.

And the need for respect for religious liberty and the rights of conscience is the third. And it began with about 100 leading religious figures and spread. It's on the Internet, at www.manhattandeclaration.org.

BECK: You're part of this, too, Dr. King?

KING: I actually signed the document. I definitely —

GEORGE: Alveda signed and she is one of 400,000 — roughly 450,000 American citizens — ordinary folks from all walks of life who joined the religious leaders in signing on.

BECK: OK.

The reason why I bring this up — pull the full screen up, please, about Caesar. This is — I believe you're lying, professor. And I think this is unbelievable. "We will fully and ungrudgingly render to Caesar what is Caesar's. But under no circumstance will we render to Caesar what is God's."

Is that your line?

NUGENT: Bingo.

KING: Yes.

BECK: That is one of the — is that your line, professor?

GEORGE: Well, of course, I'm drawing it from the scripture. Jesus said that when confronted with Caesar's coin, to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's but unto God what is God's.

This was echoed by Martin Luther King, Alveda's — Alveda's uncle, who had great respect for law and for the rule of law but said there comes a point at which a law can be so unjust it is necessary openly, lovingly and with a willingness to accept the consequences to refuse to comply with a greatly unjust law.

NUGENT: Civil disobedience — the core of American defiance against kings and emperors.

BECK: So what is the difference between — I mean, because for a lot of people, me included, abortion is murder. And it just becomes clearer and clearer the closer you get to birth. I mean, it's just so — I think if you had a womb with a window, it would never happen.

KING: Absolutely.

You know, my uncle said that America will not reject racism until America sees racism. Well, then you saw the guns and their dogs and the billy clubs. Today, over at Priests for Life, Fr. Frank Pavone says America won't reject abortion until America sees abortion.

And you know, we are going to be getting on a bus in a few weeks to do that Pro-Life freedom ride. And so what you've got if you are slaughtering people because of skin color or gestational age is still wrong. It's just wrong.

BECK: OK. So now, I want to go — when we come back, I've got to ask you about — that is such a clear-cut case. But what about the Tea Parties and what's going on?

KING: Yes.

BECK: Well, they're next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: The Negro citizens of Montgomery, Alabama will return to the buses on a non-segregated basis.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BECK: I had a lady call me on my radio show today and it's a phone call I won't — I don't think I will ever forget. She was very passionate. God love her. She was so passionate.

And she said, Glenn, tell us — tell us the way out. I can't figure it out. Tell us a way out. And I said, "I'm doing the best I can. I'm doing the best I can."

And quite honestly, if I can get all Jesus with you here for a second, I feel God is a little cryptic at times. You know, it's like, "Figure it out, dummy." Faith, hope and charity — faith, hope and charity — those are the tools he gave me. Ad I keep circling around it.

But I'm telling you, in about five minutes — five minutes — I'm going to lay something out: History is the answer. I'm going to lay something that I found out today that we happen to have the perfect person to explain it to you.

I'm with Dr. Alveda King. She is the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Music legend Ted Nugent — gun-lover. And Princeton University's Robert George.

Professor, let me start with you. We know like we were talking a minute ago about abortion. And people — if you think about it, you generally go one way or the other and you're strong in that view.

But that one is pretty easy for people. The media keeps looking at these Tea Parties and saying, "Well, it's about high taxes." It's not.

Can you explain and distill what people are feeling? Or what can you compare this to? How would you explain what people are gathering for?

GEORGE: Tea Partiers see themselves in the tradition as the original Boston Tea Party. What they are united and standing up for is the principle of constitutional government, the rule of law.

In the United States, under the Constitution we have, this is principle of limited government. I think people see that we are really here at a hinge — a hinge of history. We are going to go in one direction or the other.

We're either going to go in the direction of European-style social democracies or we're going to go back in the direction of limited government under our Constitution. The Tea Partiers are very clear about where they want to be.

Now, those who favor European-style social democracies are not bad people. That's a legitimate point of view. It happens to be not one that I share, but it's a legitimate point of view. The argument can be made.

But the argument can also be made — and I believe that it's a powerful argument, it's the argument that Tea Partiers are making — that the real future of America, the best future for ourselves and our children, is to go back in the direction of limited government restrained by the Constitution.

So what the Tea Parties are standing for is constitutional principle. It's not fundamentally about tax rates or whether to have a consumption tax or an income tax. It's about adherence to Constitution and the principle of limited government.

NUGENT: Well, the Tea Party — their battle cry is not coincidental that they rallied against taxation without representation. And that is such an egregious violation by this current government and has been metastasizing for years.

Certainly, nobody can stand up and go, yes, they are spending our tax dollars really good. They're very accountable.

There is no accountability. That was the battle cry of the original Tea Party and it is the battle cry of this Tea Party. But it's only the tip of the culture war spear. The government is out of control. The corruption is absolutely vulgar at this point.

Power corrupts and there is way too much corrupted power. So we, the people, just like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., said stand up and monitor the government that is supposed to work for us. That's what the Tea Party represents.

It's so simple, it's stupid.

BECK: So, Dr. King, before I get to what I think Dr. Martin Luther King did brilliantly, let's talk a little bit about the culture of the '60s. You talk about how it was out of control on all fronts and reflects today's culture in many ways.

KING: Yes.

BECK: But it was — I don't think I've — I have never considered — I never considered going to jail before. I am a law-abiding citizen. I have never considered that.

And my wife and I have had a conversation recently going, "You know, I think these guys could say, 'You know what? Something happened. You caused it. Get your butt in jail.'"

And I started thinking about Martin Luther King. What was that like because you went to jail?

KING: I actually went to jail and my Uncle Martin went to jail several times. My father, Rev. A.D. King, his brother, was jailed often, especially in Birmingham. You know, our home was bombed in Birmingham and all of that.

When I went to jail, we were demonstrating and we were marching. And we had a covenant or an agreement that we would not be violent and that we would conduct ourselves in a certain way.

One of my friends was thrown down by the police officers and they began to kick her. And so I went to rescue her and there actually was a tussle. So in the midst of that, I went to jail.

And I remember calling home crying and I said, "Daddy, come and get me." He says, "No. Why don't you just take the night in jail and think about what non-violence really means." So I already knew.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: But after that, I further committed myself. I was very committed because Daddy meant it. My Uncle Martin meant it. So to live in a time when you were jailed just because of the color of your skin, and having courage like the Tea Party people —

NUGENT: God bless you.

KING: I pray they don't end up in jail. But you know, speaking out with courage and conviction peacefully for what is right. And that's why they went to jail.

BECK: Back in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: We're back with Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., music legend Ted Nugent and Princeton University's Robert George.

I think we could do about three hours here, because we're running out of time. But I have to get to this. And tomorrow on the show, I'm going to take you to this chalkboard. It is absolutely amazing. Tell me what this is.

KING: Well, now, this is a pledge that we made during the days of the civil rights movement. I've actually made the pledge myself. And there are 10 points if I can move quickly.

BECK: Yes.

KING: And you agree to meditate on the teachings of Jesus every day.

Remember that the non-violent movement seeks justice and reconciliation, not victory — or not just victory.

Walk and talk in manner of love or charity, for God is love.

Pray daily to be used by God, sacrifice personal needs and so greed has to go out of the window. Because you have to believe God can take care of you so you don't have to worry about that.

Observe with both friend and foe the ordinary rules of courtesy.

Seek to perform regular service for others and for the world.

Refrain from the violence of fist, tongue or heart. And heart is real important.

Strive to be in good spiritual and bodily health. Because how are you going to do all that marching if you are not in good health?

And follow directions of the movement and of captain on a demonstration.

BECK: And if you marched, you had to sign it.

KING: If you marched, you had to sign it and to keep yourself accordingly.

GEORGE: Beautiful. I like it.

BECK: This is the kind of thing that I think we need. And I'll be following this here in the next few days. Professor George, you said something?

GEORGE: No, I just said that's very beautiful, Alveda. Thank you for that.

KING: Thank you.

GEORGE: I am going to put that on my website.

BECK: That is amazing. Let me ask you this — seeks justice and reconciliation and not victory.

KING: Right.

BECK: How do you do that in today's world?

KING: Well, justice means that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all people. If people are being downtrodden and mistreated, it's our obligation, it's our responsibility to speak out, not just for ourselves but for others.

NUGENT: When we see others victimized —

KING: When we see others victimized we must speak out. We have to seek justice for everybody.

BECK: But I was saying, reconciliation, not victory.

KING: Well, reconciliation means — in victory, I win and you're wrong, and then you lose.

BECK: Got it. Got it.

KING: You're out. You're wrong. I hate you. I can't stand you. Reconciliation with truth being the real winner. And —

NUGENT: We're all Americans, after all.

KING: And we're on the side of truth. When the truth emerges, then we reconcile ourselves to truth and unity and in charity or in love.

GEORGE: What Alveda is saying here is really deeply rooted in our Judeo-Christian civilization. The idea is that we don't seek to destroy our enemies. After all, Jesus taught that our love must extend even to enemies. It's a remarkable teaching. Not to destroy enemies, but to convert hearts, to win people over to the cause of justice.

NUGENT: Sounds like the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule to me.

KING: Absolutely.

BECK: And it sounds like the opposite of what Malcolm X was doing at first and Martin Luther King — Malcolm X fails and Martin Luther King succeeds.

KING: Yes.

BECK: Back in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: I have to apologize to all three of my guests, because I've had — well, I've had one guest on this program that was a waste of an hour. And if I could get that hour back, I'd put it on right now.

Dr. Alveda King is with us, music legend Ted Nugent, Princeton University's Robert George.

I guess I just — I want to ask this question. And I've really got about two minutes now. And I apologize to you three for bringing you in for this so short. I really thought if I could make a case, people would wake up. And —

NUGENT: They are.

BECK: I know they are. They are. I am talking, I guess, maybe about the media.

NUGENT: They aren't. They aren't.

BECK: How do you get people who just are still playing politics? When you saw dogs attack, everybody in America went whoa, whoa, whoa.

KING: Right. Right.

BECK: Well, what is it that it's going to take?

KING: When people saw the dogs, the guns and the billy clubs and yet the face of my uncle, my father and a little later, my face and there was love and compassion there, it caused the human hearts to begin to melt.

So the media has a responsibility. And we can't let them totally get away because they have to let the truth be seen and be told. So we have to have shows like yours. We have to have Internet streaming with truth out there. We have to have folks who are peacefully protesting, telling the truth. And the heart of America will begin to melt in the face of truth and charity.

NUGENT: I think the far-left media represents the dogs attacking the protestors.

KING: Hey, the far-left media is going to have to start telling the truth.

BECK: The media did the same thing, though, in the 1990s.

KING: They did for a very long time. And they would not report the truth. Finally, you have young members of the media who bravely begin to say they're telling the truth. We need to show this. And that's what happened.

BECK: All three of my guests, I can't thank you enough. God bless you.

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