'Glenn Beck': Faith of Our Founders

Published April 09, 2010

| FoxNews.com

This is a rush transcript from "Glenn Beck," April 8, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GLENN BECK, HOST: Tonight, we're going to spend an hour talking about faith, because this has been so grossly distorted by progressives. Most people will tell you now: Oh, we're not a Christian nation. We're a Judeo-Christian. What? These people were deists, they were atheists.

Really?

America, if you want to restore our country, we have to look at the foundations, find out how we were built, and repeat the process. We also need to find the things that unite us. I don't care if you're a Republican, Democrat or independent: Faith, hope and charity — we can unite on. Politics will divide us. And I think it was Abraham Lincoln that said, "United we stand, divided we fall."

We are on the verge of collapse. Let's rebuild it.

David Barton, founder and president of WallBuilders, author of "Original Intent: The Courts, the Constitution and Religion."

David, man, I have to tell you, I read this, how many years ago did the "Original Intent" come out?

DAVID BARTON, PRESIDENT, WALLBUILDERS: Oh, gracious. It's been a few years.

BECK: Yes, it's been 10 at least.

BARTON: Probably. Probably.

BECK: I read that years ago and it is an honor to know you. It is.

BARTON: Thanks, brother.

BECK: And you are part of our "American Revival," which we're going to be out in Phoenix this weekend doing. You do the first part on faith. And we were out last week in Orlando. And I said to you, we have got to do this on television.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: Because most people — we had 8,000 people in the venue last or two weeks ago in Orlando.

BARTON: Packed house.

BECK: Packed house. And you could hear people going: Oh, my gosh, I didn't know that.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: So, why don't you take me through these two paintings?

BARTON: OK.

BECK: This is American history. Here you go, gang. This is the stuff you're never ever going to be taught in school.

This is the Constitution. This is the Declaration of Independence. Which do you want to start with?

BARTON: Let's start with the signers of the "dec." That is a fun one.

BECK: OK. So, this — the premise here is — remember, America, no, there is, nobody, they're not God-fearing people. We're not a country based in God or faith. No, no, no. No.

Where do we start here?

BARTON: Let's start with the overall group. Let's just — let me start with this book right here. This came out of Continental Congress. This is the rarest, one of the rarest books in America. That little jewel right there is the first Bible printed in English in America.

BECK: Up here, one of the first Bibles printed in English.

BARTON: English in America. And it was printed by those guys there. The Congress printed that Bible. And the original congressional documents say that the Bible is, quote, "a neat addition of the Holy Scripture for use of our schools," end quote.

BECK: I'm sorry. What?

BARTON: "A neat addition of the Holy Scripture for use of our schools," end quote. And in the front of that Bible has a congressional endorsement.

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: But everyone will tell you separation of church and state.

BARTON: And that's what they wanted. They're the guys who came up with that. So, I think they know what the definition is.

BECK: OK. How many of these are left?

BARTON: There's 22 left in private hands. They printed 10,000 in Congress. And there's 22 left. And that's one of the 22 right there.

BECK: OK. So, let me start now. There's Congress. Let me just get a big red marker here so people can see it. Here is the — here is the Continental Congress and they are getting ready to sign the Declaration of Independence.

BARTON: That's Richard Henry Lee. He's the guy who made the recommendation we separate from Congress. It was really cool. When he died and his papers were passed on to his grandson, his grandson printed the papers in two volumes and they looked at the papers and said, isn't it cool that we had so many Christians together. And so, he's looking at the Founders' writings and that was the epitome of what Christian patriot looked like, Richard Henry Lee.

BECK: Let me — let me ask you this, because when the left always paints Christians as hate-mongers.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: These guys, George Washington — George Washington, I mean, he went, they were vigorous defenders of other faith —

BARTON: Yes, you bet.

BECK: — of Jewish religion of any other religion, right?

BARTON: They were. One of the things you find is that that was a trait that they taught of Christianity. Christianity is not coercive. They said don't compare us to European Christianity. That was coercive. We're not. We believe that truth wins, you present the truth. That's fine.

And so, you'll find that in the American Revolution, we had Jewish patriots, we had Christian patriots. We had Muslims here in 1619. We had the first Jewish synagogues 1654. These guys had no trouble with other religions but they didn't deny their own.

BECK: Ben Franklin, he was asked — I think it was by Yale, you know this better than me.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: Asked by Yale, what is the definition of American — the American religion? And he said, there is a God.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: There is an afterlife. We'll have to answer for our sins in the afterlife.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: And the best way to serve God is serve other people.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: That doesn't sound like — I mean, that's not hate-mongers.

BARTON: Not radical stuff at all. And that's why they were so good. They set forth a model of real cooperation. And they're really good on that.

BECK: You know, let's go to number two here. Who's this?

BARTON: That's Sam Adams. Sam Adams, the father of the American Revolution. He was really known as an outspoken Christian guy. This is one of his proclamations. As the governor of Massachusetts, he did seven of these. Seven times he called the state to prayer and it is not the squishy language that he used in that.

BECK: This is — oh, he was amazing.

BARTON: He was outspoken.

BECK: If you see here of the faith, hope charity posters that we have made — can you get a shot of that?

Faith and hope and charity, that is Samuel Adams, the first face is Samuel Adams. Because you read him —

BARTON: Oh, yes.

BECK: Oh, my gosh.

BARTON: Oh, yes.

BECK: And when you're talking about separation of church and state, after the signing of the Declaration of the Independence and the Constitution, did not Massachusetts have a state religion?

BARTON: Oh, nine of 13 had state religions. It was the federal government who wasn't allowed to make a national religion for all denominations like they had in England.

BECK: So, this is kind of the thing — and the reason I bring this up is because this is like — we were talking on the radio today about health care. I don't have a problem with Massachusetts wanting to do health care. You can bankrupt your state all you want, but don't force it on me.

BARTON: That's right. That's right.

BECK: And that was the idea.

BARTON: That was in religion. That's why the First Amendment limited only the federal government. It didn't limit the states at all.

BECK: Right. You could do whatever you want.

BARTON: It's up to the people. Let people make choices.

BECK: OK.

BARTON: Real simple.

BECK: OK.

BARTON: Sam Adams.

BECK: So, there's proclamation of day of prayer.

BARTON: Yes. Day of — and by the way, he would often call the state to day of fasting, humiliation and prayer. So, he was serious about praying.

BECK: Don't ever ask to be humbled or humiliation from God because he'll give that to you.

BARTON: He'll give it to you.

BECK: Yes.

BARTON: Charles Carroll right there. Let me pull a letter from Charles. I've got Charles right here. This is a letter from Charles Carroll, he is the final surviving signer of the Declaration. Out of the 56, he's the last one to die. He died at the age of 95.

And this is a letter that he wrote at 89, a declaration of his faith in God, very outspoken. This guy actually took and endowed, he's the wealthiest man in America. He took his money and he endowed permanently a chapel and a preacher because he said in rural part of Maryland, we don't have churches and there's not enough people to pay for one. So, he took his wealth to endow chapel and a preacher permanently.

BECK: The reason why we're bringing this up, America, is because you have to know — you have to have the correct history here. The idea that these people were not men of faith is absolutely abhorrent. It is such a distortion of history.

Do you have the book, the book where, the modern day book of —

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: — oh, they were all godless heathens.

BARTON: Yes, this one right here.

BECK: Yes. This is it.

BARTON: A couple of Cornell professors.

BECK: Yes. Tell us what's in this book.

BARTON: What's in that book is called "The Godless Constitution" that's used in universities across the nation, in schools everywhere. And this is a textbook and it goes and says, hey, we're a secular nation. That's what made us great for 200 years, et cetera.

BECK: Now, this is scholarly book? Wait. Wait.

BARTON: Well, allegedly.

(CROSSTALK)

BARTON: It's academics, it's Ph.D.s who did it. It's a university textbook.

BECK: Right. Now, if you'll notice, if you've ever read anything scholarly — can we pick it up on three on Oscar's camera?

OK. If you've ever read anything scholarly, like read "Progressivism, the History of Modern Liberalism," it's a nightmare and it's full of footnotes. There are no footnotes.

BARTON: They say at the end, their quote is, we have dispensed what the usual scholarly apparatus of footnotes. Trust us, we're Ph.D.s, we know what we're talking about. None of the guys believed in God.

BECK: You have the largest collection in private hands of American papers and documents —

BARTON: Right.

BECK: — prior to 1800?

BARTON: Prior to 1812.

BECK: Prior to 1812. OK.

Let's continue to go here to number four.

BARTON: Benjamin Rush — he's considered one of the three most significant Founders. John Adams said when he died that you had George Washington, Ben Franklin and Benjamin Rush. We never heard of the guy today.

Benjamin Rush — let me pull his stuff right here. Benjamin Rush is the man who founded the first Bible society in America. He did the first mass-produced Bible in America. He founded the Sunday School Movement in America.

(VIDEO GAP)

BARTON: — John Adams.

BECK: When did this go awry?

BARTON: It went awry right after World War II. Right after World War II, we stopped teaching this in our textbooks. And today, we've been taught this knot-head stuff from these professors and this is what we think truth is. But here's truth.

BECK: Number five —

BARTON: Stephen Hopkins. You can tell by the hat the guy is religious. He is a Quaker. He's a devout orthodox Quaker.

He's a really cool guy, outspoken of his faith. He wrote several religious treaties back in 1765 to show why we were about to separate from Great Britain using scriptures to make his point.

BECK: Number six. This guy.

BARTON: Right there, he's a — he's a fun guy. That's Robert Treat Paine. He's attorney general of Massachusetts but he is a military chaplain. He's an ordained minister. He had churches and taught in churches and the way he served in the military was, he was a chaplain for the troops.

BECK: How did we get to this point? I mean, look at this section. Just look at this section. Look at this section. Look how many are deeply, deeply religious.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: How did we get to the point where, I don't know, these are —

BARTON: Well, what happens today is we know Jefferson and Franklin, and nobody else on that. We've been taught to recognize the least religious and we've been taught, oh, all —

BECK: And they weren't the least religious.

BARTON: And they weren't. You know, if you take even Jefferson and Franklin, there's no question that those guys are a whole lot more religious in their public expressions.

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: They didn't — correct me if I'm wrong — they didn't necessarily believe in the organized religion that was jammed down your throat —

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: — where it was I got to baptize you in the name of Jesus and there's no other truths.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: That's what they didn't believe.

BARTON: But they were not secular. They were not anti-God. They were not even anti-Christian. As a matter of fact, the way they do it, Jefferson has 19,000 written letters. There are six letters in which he raises some questions about orthodox Christian teachings. Everybody focuses on the six, they don't touch the 19,000. So, that's the way they make these guys look bad.

BECK: All right. So, now, we go to — I think, this guy. Who's this?

BARTON: That is James Wilson. James Wilson signed both the Declaration and the Constitution. He's one of the six guys that signed both.

BECK: This is a younger version of him.

BARTON: That's right. And you can spot him both times because he's the only one that wore glasses in the founding pictures. So, he's got glasses. He is an original Supreme Court justice.

This — he started the first law school in America. This is the first law book that was ever used in law schools and he did this.

BECK: Any relationship to Woodrow Wilson?

BARTON: No, not at all.

But this guy, he tells students and it's in that book, that you cannot have good civil law that excludes divine law. If you cut the scriptures out of civil law, you'll not have good civil law. And that's what he's teaching in the court.

BECK: Isn't it — isn't it Deuteronomy that is the most quoted —

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: — out of any of our founding documents, right?

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: It's not Locke. It's nothing. It's Deuteronomy.

BARTON: That's right. Deuteronomy.

The political science professors found that when they looked at all the writings the founders used and relied and quoted, and there were — there were 15,000 writings they used. They found 3,154 quotes, the most quoted source was the Bible — 34 percent of their quotes came out of the Bible. Most quoted book in the Bible is the Book of Deuteronomy.

BECK: Which is basically the Mosaic Law.

BARTON: That's right. That's right. Exactly right.

BECK: So, when we say we're Judeo-Christian, it doesn't mean you have to go to this church or anything else.

BARTON: That's right. These principles.

BECK: This is the law.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: This is the — you know, and this is the thing that we bring up in the — you know, on the "American Revival" that we're doing when we're talking about the faith is the 10 Commandments.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: America, who disagrees with the 10 Commandments? Thou shall not kill?

Now, here's one Jim Wallis: Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: I mean, don't covet, don't have false idols. The problem with America is we have false idols. We worship the almighty dollar or our house or our car or whatever the neighbor has. I mean, that's the problem.

BARTON: What's interesting is it's easier up until the last 20 years when the court got involved in this, it was easier to find the 10 Commandments in government building than the church building. And that's because we use the 10 Commandments as basis of civil law and the Western world, has been for 2,000 years. These guys definitely did it.

BECK: OK. This guy.

BARTON: That guy right there is Francis Hopkinson. And he's the guy who designed the American flag. He's one of our very first federal judges.

I got a really cool book of his right here. He did this book in 1767. It's America's first purely American hymn book. He took the entire book of Psalms and set the book to music. So, this is America's first hymn book done by a signer of the Declaration. The entire of Book of Psalms set to music.

And if you know the Bible, you know, Psalms 1:19 is really long. It is 62 pages long in this hymn book. One hymn, 62 pages.

BECK: This guy — these guys — just looking at this now, these guys would be deemed un-American.

BARTON: Oh, yes. They're part of the radical religious extreme right, whatever the stuff is out there they call them. Yes, absolutely.

BECK: All right. Now, this is John Adams here, isn't it?

BARTON: John Adams is a lot of fun. You know, HBO did a —

BECK: Oh he looks like it.

BARTON: Yes, right. HBO did a special on him and managed to leave out his faith. I've got a really cool letter from John —

BECK: Relationship to Sam?

BARTON: A cousin — distant cousin.

BECK: OK.

BARTON: A distant cousin. This is the letter from John Adams. This is the letter he wrote to Benjamin Rush, who was a good friend. And this stuff right here —

BECK: Wait, wait, wait. You have to tell this story from the beginning.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: I know we're rushing through stuff, but you have to tell this story from the beginning. John Adams, Thomas Jefferson —

BARTON: Benjamin Rush.

BECK: Right. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, they're friends at first.

BARTON: They were great friends.

BECK: Great friends. And then they have so many disagreements that they start — they have a falling out. They can't even speak to each other. He only becomes president because he says, this guy is destroying, correct?

BARTON: Yes. Exactly.

BECK: OK. So, there's a falling out. Wait until you hear the rest of the story and then what's in that letter. We'll do that — next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: America, you are never going to get — thank God, fall to your knees, I mean this and thank God every day for the people at Fox because they allow stuff like this on the air. And believe me, they will have heat for it.

It's an hour of faith and our founders. If you want to rebuild or restore America, you got to know the truth of America. What are our building blocks? Faith is the first one. Faith, hope and charity.

I want to show you what you're not learning in school. Call and a friend and tell them. I don't know if this show will ever be repeated.

We were talking about Thomas Jefferson and John Adams — we're with David Barton, by the way — and Benjamin Rush who is right here.

I told you before we went into break, [Jefferson] and [Adams], good friends. [Adams] becomes president. [Jefferson] doesn't want to be president, but [Jefferson] says [Adams] is destroying the republic. And so, [Jefferson] has to become the third president. And they have a big falling out.

Benjamin Rush, then, in the middle of the night has a dream, right?

BARTON: Right.

BECK: And he has a dream that he reads a book, he sees somebody carrying a book of letters between these two going back and forth. And it's history. And he says he writes to John and says, these letters haven't been written yet.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: You guys are supposed to get back together.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: Now we know that because that document has been out — that letter has been out for a long time.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: But was — what wasn't part of history was a letter that you found.

BARTON: Right here.

BECK: This is the response from — he says, I had a dream. You two are supposed to get back together. You're going to write letters. And they will — and I have the collection.

BARTON: And, you know, what's cool is, he also said, by the way, in the history book, I saw that you both died on the same day, the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of the Independence, which they did, 17 years before this happened in the dream. That's when he saw and was written in the history book.

BECK: Unbelievable.

So, he says this, what history didn't know was what did he do about it, or what did he say. You have the letter sitting in front of you.

BARTON: Right there.

BECK: This is from John Adams to Benjamin Rush.

BARTON: And Benjamin Rush has told John, I had this dream, it's really strange. I think God gave me this dream, and I think you need to know about it. So, in the letter, John Adams goes through and he says, well, I'm willing, he says, but there's no conversation between me and Jefferson right now. But I'm willing.

And then this thing was the dream from God. This is John Adams' quote right here. He's talking to Benjamin and says, "But my friend, Benjamin, there's something very serious in this business." He said, "The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system and his troop. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost." And he goes through this theological thing that I think God gave you the dream" I'm willing to do this. Let's get back together. That is the letter. They got these two guys reconciled. They did end up writing volumes of letters back and forth to each other from which we benefit today.

BECK: David, let me ask you this. In all the stuff that you've seen, because I think America is — I know, you know, I'm accused of a lot of things. I'm accused of just enriching myself. I'm accused — there's a lot of things.

You've known me for what, a month?

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: And you experienced some things with me. There's a lot I don't want to do and I don't want to say. Out of these guys, most of them were doing stuff they didn't want to do.

BARTON: Exactly right.

BECK: Right?

BARTON: Exactly right.

BECK: And they were prompted by God.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: So, these are people who were — I mean, when we say we pledge our fortunes, our lives — our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor —

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: — with firm reliance on Divine Providence —

BARTON: Right.

BECK: — that's what they were doing.

BARTON: Seven of those guys never lived to see what they signed on the document. Seventeen of them lost everything they owned. Their fortunes, their states, everything — the British destroyed them. Four of them lost their wives. Four of them lost their kids. Five were prisoners of war.

You go through the list of what those guys went through — just to tell these stories of what they endured, it will make you cry. Because you just — you don't see patriotism like that.

BECK: And we don't tell these stories.

BARTON: We don't tell — we used to. Every school kid used to know this stuff.

BECK: I want to show America these things. Tell me what this book is first.

BARTON: That is called "Lives of the Signers of the Declaration" by historian Benson Lossing. That is a textbook for generations.

BECK: OK. This is a textbook and in the textbook, we needed to learn who all of these — I can't — I can't get my fingers around it. I don't want to be — I want to be very careful. This is very old. I don't want to open it up. But basically —

BARTON: It has that picture.

BECK: Right. Right on the front. In school, you had to learn all of the story.

BARTON: Every one of the 56.

BECK: OK. And in this book here, David, is what?

BARTON: It's called the "Wives of the Signers."

BECK: And this book was also a textbook?

BARTON: It was a textbook and it told you about what happened to the wives of these guys, because they made huge sacrifices. And their patriotism was huge.

BECK: So, it was the male and female version, OK?

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: And that's every school had that. You had to know those.

BARTON: Typical textbook, common textbook.

BECK: These are the reprints of this book. These are the exact reprints of the book. Anything changed in this?

BARTON: No. We just did exact reprints of what's there.

BECK: And available where?

BARTON: WallBuilders.com or Amazon or any other place.

BECK: If you want to know what our kids used to be learning, it's this.

More with David Barton on faith and the history of our country and God — next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Hello, America.

You know, my show is kind of focusing on faith, hope and charity. Those are the things that will unite us. Those are the things we can all come together. I don't care if you are Republican, Democrat or independent.

If you want to restore the country — because look, under George Bush, I was saying the same stuff, man. We're in trouble. If you want to restore the country, you have to know what it was, where we came from. How they put it together.

Tonight, an hour of faith.

David Barton is here. And David, you were actually on the Texas school book board. And thank you for all of your hard work because it's amazing. You know, you can hear these scholars, but you don't need to hear the scholars. You have the books.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: You have the original writings. You have the largest collection of American documents and writings from 1812 and backwards.

BARTON: And backwards.

BECK: And backwards. We were I want to spend some time here, because where everybody takes this apart and they say, "Oh, they're deists." There's three of them: There's George Washington, there is Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson.

BARTON: Right.

BECK: OK. So help me out on this because these are the most — this is what everybody is saying: They're not religious at all.

BARTON: Yes. Let's start with Washington. Washington is a really simple one to start with. When he died, the chaplain of Congress did the first ever biography of him and had the first collection of Washington's writings.

So what he did is he wrote to Washington's family, particularly Nelly Custis, who lived with George for 20 years before she got married, the stepdaughter he adopted. And said, "You know, we just want to make sure. Was Washington really a Christian?"

And she went through this long letter describing what he did, his prayer habits, his scripture habits, how many churches he helped to start, what he did in churches. And she came up and she said, you know, you might as well question his patriotism as to question his Christianity. And that was her conclusion.

What happens in 1926, a guy named W. Wood, part of the progressives, wrote a new book on Washington that said, "Well, we don't think he had that much faith. He was really a deist."

And since then, everybody quotes that 1926 book —

BECK: All right. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Slow down a bit, because the progressive puts a book out that says here is new evidence, but —

BARTON: No, he didn't —

BECK: He didn't say new evidence. He just —

BARTON: It was this book right here. He had not a — he didn't have a single footnote in the book.

BECK: Right.

BARTON: He said, oh, no, Washington really wasn't religious. And he made all these claims.

BECK: Right. OK. So he says that, but then that book is discredited.

BARTON: That book is discredited the next year in 1927 with a scholarly book that came out and footnoted saying, hey, what you said last year, here is the exact opposite proof of what you said.

But nobody quoted the scholarly book. They kept quoting the progressive revisionist book, and that's where we are today. People think Washington was not religious.

BECK: And here is the thing — America, the progressives knew when they were with Woodrow Wilson — all of these guys, it was just a nasty mess. And they were trying to undo what those guys did. They were trying to undo the Constitution, to make progress past that.

I'm not saying that they were evil or anything else. That's what they wanted to do. But America wouldn't let them do it. Why? Because we used to talk about what these people did and we knew who they were.

And so the idea was we have to change history books. We have to discredit the Founders. This is, if I'm not mistaken, progressive period. That's when they were old, white, rich —

BARTON: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: That's all they did.

BARTON: That's right. Right.

BECK: And they were all — they were all not Christian. They weren't good or anything else.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: OK. So there, you have Washington. How about Jefferson?

BARTON: Jefferson is a lot of fun. Jefferson right here — this is one of his presidential documents. And in the document, he didn't like — well, I can't say he didn't like. He just went further than what the other Founders did.

The other Founders signed the presidential documents the way the Constitution closes in Article Seven, "in the year of our Lord" and they signed it. Jefferson signed his documents —

BECK: Here — hang on. You've got to bring this — got to bring this in. Oscar, I don't know if you can get this. This is absolutely fantastic. It's right here. Can you bring it in any farther than that? What does it say?

BARTON: "In the year of our Lord Christ." That's the way Jefferson signed his documents. Now, the other fun thing about Jefferson was when his presidency of the United States just started in December of 1800, he started church services in the U.S. Capitol.

The church he started in the Capitol became the largest church in America. Over 2,000 people a week went to church inside the Capitol. I have the sermons that were preached back then in the Capitol.

Jefferson thought he could help the worship service in the Capitol. So he had the Marine Corps band come play worship services in the Capitol. It was a cool place. The first woman ever to preach in the Capitol, 1806, Dorothy Ripley. The first black ever to preach, Henry Highland Garnet. Huge black history stuff that we don't even talk about anymore with these guys.

There is so much cool stuff in the church that Jefferson started at the Capitol. And he went over and started a church in the War Department and a church in the Treasury Department and a church at the Navy Yard.

BECK: Where everybody gets — and this is where they are going to attack this show — Where everybody gets screwed up is they're going to say, Oh, there they go on the religious zealotry.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: No. Jefferson didn't care what church you attended.

BARTON: That's it.

BECK: Right? That was America and that needs to be America: Go to church; worship God; follow the 10 Commandments. That's it.

BARTON: And what was so cool about the church of the Capitol was the chaplains ran it but you had preachers from all denominations coming in to preach. And that's what made Jefferson unusual as he was not denominational guy. He was a trans-denominational guy.

BECK: OK. One last guy and then we have to take a break. Help me out with Benjamin Franklin, because he is here and he is also here — Benjamin Franklin.

BARTON: Well, Ben Franklin is the guy who called for prayer at the Constitutional Convention, one of greatest calls, Thursday, June 28, 1787. He went through a number of scriptures to say, guys, we've had five weeks of fighting. We need to do some praying.

So he gave this passionate call for prayer. Washington said they recessed for three days and went to church at the Rev. William Rogers Church. It's in his diary.

And they had a time of prayer — actually, I have the original prayer that they prayed over at the convention there at the church. So Franklin does that. After that, he became — actually, he was the governor of Pennsylvania before.

And get this. Franklin, as the governor of Pennsylvania, came up with a plan to raise church attendance in state of Pennsylvania. When was the last time a governor did something like that? That's Franklin.

BECK: They say he is not religious because at the end of his life — if I'm not mistaken. You know better than I.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: But he is painted here sitting in a chair, and that's because he had kidney stones, gallstones?

BARTON: Yes. He had all sorts — he had a whole plethora of —

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: He was actually carried —

BARTON: He was carried in.

BECK: In that chair, because he couldn't stand the pain of walking on cobblestones.

BARTON: Walking — that's right.

BECK: And so they carried him in. He was on opium —

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: And hated it —

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: And tried to get off it as much as he could because it clouded his mind. It was at this point that people began to question him because he was fiercely anti-slavery.

BARTON: Absolutely.

BECK: And they also started questioning his Christianity and his sanity because he was fiercely anti-slavery.

BARTON: Well, he had written one letter early in life where he called himself a deist. Now, the difference is a deist in that dictionary definition does not match up with what we call a deist.

A deist back then was someone who believed in God, believed in revelation, just wasn't sure about the divinity of Jesus. That's all a deist meant.

BECK: OK.

BARTON: So we turned the deist today into an agnostic, atheist and it's not the same thing.

BECK: OK.

BARTON: So he made one letter, but that was not the rest of his life. If you look at 60 years, he was a supporter of this church. He had a pew in his church, Christchurch. And then he is very active religiously. He is not what we might call orthodox. He's another trans-denominational guy, quite frankly.

BECK: He flew a kite in a storm and almost electrocuted himself —

BARTON: Exactly. Exactly.

BECK: Not orthodox. I think we got that.

Back in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Welcome back. I'm with David Barton from WallBuilders and we're talking about faith, how — the truth about the founding of our nation and the Founders.

This is — I mean, when they reprinted this — I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, I got a copy of it. I never heard of it. And I'm a big fan of Jefferson. And I am — and this is so cool. This is the morals of Jesus.

BARTON: "The Life and Morals of Jesus —"

BECK: Life and Morals —

BARTON: "Of Nazareth."

BECK: What Jefferson did — what he did is he took four different languages, the scriptures in four — the Gospel in four different languages and he put them side-by-side and kept them up. And you just called it a red letter.

BARTON: Yes. What he did was took all the words of Jesus and pasted them end to end non-stop so he can read the words of Jesus in four languages.

BECK: OK. Now, here is what is very interesting. This is — this one was printed in 1904. "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" by Thomas Jefferson and it was printed Washington, Government Printing Office, 1904. And I see here it's from the House of Representatives.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: What is this?

BARTON: That is what was given to every freshman member of Congress every election. Congress gave that to freshmen members because they needed — they felt that this was an important thing for you to know. This is what Jefferson thought was important and was just passing it to members of Congress.

BECK: When did we stop printing this?

BARTON: We probably stopped that about the progressive time, in the 1920s. We moved away from that.

BECK: Unbelievable. David, we are — we are going to Phoenix this weekend. Judge is going to be with us. He is doing something on charity, which is basically the Constitution. We have David Buckner on hope, which is truth. And you are doing faith.

Our country is facing a time that I haven't seen in my lifetime because we have all of this debt and everything else. And we have a storm coming our way.

Am I missing any of the fundamental building blocks of our country: faith, hope, charity? Faith, truth — charity comes from the individual. Live by the law and be good to each other. Am I missing anything?

BARTON: The one word that I would use that they used repeatedly is the word "duty." You mentioned these guys didn't want to do this. They wanted to be home.

Patrick Henry tried not to be governor four times and he said, I've got 19 kids. I've got 81 grandkids. I want to be home with the kids. And they kept electing him. He said, I've got a duty to serve.

BECK: That's amazing. [Washington], when they knocked on his door to come here to this convention said, "Please, find someone else." I know — I think his words were, "Have I not served my country enough?"

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: OK. So he didn't want to do it and he certainly didn't want to be president.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: [Jefferson] guy didn't even put "president" on his tombstone.

BARTON: That's right.

BECK: Wouldn't you like to find one of those guys to run for office or force them in somehow or another?

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: We're with David Barton from WallBuilders and I want him to take you to the 20th Century now and different ways that the government has — it would never, never be involved.

Let's start with this: Forest and Flames in the Bible. The back, here is Smokey the Bear, "And please make people careful, Amen." I mean, Smokey the Bear is praying and this is all Bible scripture.

BARTON: All by the Department of Agriculture in the '60s, just showing what the Bible says about forests in flames. And let's preserve the forest and Smokey Bear praying.

BECK: OK. This is from World War II. Again, this is a government-issued poster. This is World War II. "This is the enemy." The book —

BARTON: The Bible.

BECK: What is the thinking behind this?

BARTON: The Nazi forces and the Axis powers were coming after our faith, our belief, our culture which is built on faith. That was — they were coming after —

BECK: Truman said this also about the Soviets, right?

BARTON: Truman, in the speech when he took over the Cold War, said it's a fight between Christianity and anti-Christianity. That was Truman's official position as president.

BECK: This is to buy war bonds, "Save Freedom of Worship. Each to the dictates of his own conscience." This actually comes from a speech of FDR.

BARTON: It is.

BECK: The progressives — [the Founders] guys lived it. The progressives used it.

BARTON: They used it. That's right. That's right.

BECK: Again, another buy bonds from the U.S. Government, "For peace and security."

BARTON: At the bottom, it says, "An official U.S. Treasury poster." I love the fact — there is the Nativity of the Christ.

BECK: And this one — this one again, the United States Treasury Department. This looks like World War I.

BARTON: That is divine guidance, Joan of Arc. God led her to victory over the enemy. And that's —

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: This was Woodrow Wilson.

BARTON: Yes, right. It would be that time.

BECK: You know, what's fascinating to me is — I mean, Woodrow Wilson, his father was a preacher.

BARTON: He was a preacher. That's right.

BECK: Yes. And they knew they had to — and this is why I say you must be very careful about the idea of social justice. Correct me if I'm wrong. Social justice is dangerous because these guy guys knew how they had to get into the churches.

BARTON: Yes.

BECK: To be able to control you, they had to get into the churches.

Remember, [the Founders], all of the stuff that we've laid out here in front of you — these two scenes, they were not about controlling you. They were about giving you freedom and liberty. And they didn't care what church or synagogue or anything. They didn't care what mosque you went to. Just regulate yourself and serve your fellow man.

[Progressives] use religion for power. That's where the danger comes in. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: We have been with David Barton. He is the author of a book that I read — I don't know — 10, 15 years ago. It's great, "Original Intent." He's from Wall Builders. And he is also joining me in Phoenix on Saturday at something we call the "American Revival." And it is the idea of faith, hope and charity, the building blocks of our country.

Whose face would you add for duty?

BARTON: All of them. That's what drove every one of them. They did things they would prefer not to, but it was their duty to do it.

And if we catch that notion of duty as citizens, we'll get this thing restored — not rebuilt, but restored. But we've got to have the same commitment to do things that are difficult and take our time because it's the right thing to do.

BECK: David, we'll see you Saturday. Tickets are still available at "GlennBeck.com," "The American Revival."

"Use truth as your anvil and non-violence as your hammer." And anything that doesn't stand the test when it is brought to the anvil of truth and hammered with non-violence, reject it. The words of Gandhi.

Content and Programming Copyright 2010 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2010 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.

URL

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2010/04/09/glenn-beck-faith-our-founders/