This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," March 16, 2010. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Guess who Republican Senator Orrin Hatch says Democrats are fighting? No, not Republicans, but he says they are fighting the American people.
Just a short time ago Senator Orrin Hatch went "On the Record."
VAN SUSTEREN: We have some excitement here on Capitol Hill with health care. I don't know what is going to happen, whether it is going to be voted in or not, but you have been quoted as saying no matter what happens it will be war. You backed off a little bit, but what did you mean?
SEN. ORRIN HATCH, R - UTAH: Look, if this bill passes, the Democrats really aren't fighting Republicans, they are fighting the American people. The vast majority of them are against this bill.
I've been all over the country. People come up to me and say put that bill down. We don't want that bill. Over and over and over -- I hardly ever get anybody who says we want that health care bill that the Democrats have. They know it is loaded with all kinds of costs.
It has 1,700 new federal programs in it. My gosh, we don't need a 2,700 page bill -- actually 2,711 page bill to tell us what to do. People are very upset about it.
VAN SUSTEREN: There's also the collateral issue of ruffled feathers, and will there be ruffled feathers on the Hill in terms of will the Republicans and Democrats be able to work together on something that -- the people are really drawing a line in the sand on this one.
HATCH: They have. The Republicans are very upset about this.
And the Democrats are upset too. If they push this bill through the way they are trying to do it, and that is by coming up with a phony rule over this -- not phony, they can do it. They can come up with a rule that they try and get everyone to vote for, and then that deems the Senate bill passed by the House?
Not only is that unconstitutional, but that's a phony way of getting around this problem because they don't want their people to directly vote for this awful bill because they know the American people are going to hold it against them. There are going to be fewer Democrats if they vote for this bill this way.
VAN SUSTEREN: This Slaughter rule would originate in the House.
HATCH: Sure, House rules.
VAN SUSTEREN: What are the Senate Democrats thinking or saying? Are they saying that's a good idea?
HATCH: I can imagine anybody thinking they are going to get away with that. They would have to think the American people are absolutely stupid to not understand that voting for the rule passes that bill. It's the same as a vote for the bill except it is illegal under Article 1, Section 7 of the constitution, which says that have to vote up and down on these bills in order for the president to sign them.
VAN SUSTEREN: If the House accepts the Senate bill and goes up Pennsylvania Avenue, gets signed by the president and comes back for reconciliation, is there any maneuver or thought in your mine there's going to be maneuvering or movement on the side of the Senate Democrats, Republicans, to do what the House wants?
HATCH: First of all, the House members are relying on Senate, you know, passing the reconciliation bill. In other words they came up with another reconciliation bill to try and correct the Senate bill that they are unwilling to vote on. In other words --
VAN SUSTEREN: You're laughing at it. You think they're going to take it?
HATCH: Well, there's no guarantee that the Senate is going to do what they want them to do. The Senate is going to have to go through trying times in order to -- assuming that bill passes the House, assuming they get 216 votes. And I don't think they have those. If they had those they would have brought it up by now.
Can you imagine -- this president is going to have the budget under his leadership go up to $8.5 trillion over the next 10 years.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you tell him that?
VAN SUSTEREN: What does he say?
HATCH: I haven't told him that personally, but I've told him in indirect ways. The fact of the matter is the deficit is going to double in the next five years and triple in the next 10 years.
VAN SUSTEREN: They must not think that is true.
HATCH: They know it's true. Their own budget says it's true. And let me tell you, their own actuary says this is going to cost the American taxpayers $200 billion more. And yet they play these phony games to hide the rotten things they've done here, like the special deals for people.
You're talking about a $10 billion deal for Vermont of all things. I mean $500 million for Massachusetts. I mean it's unbelievable. There are like 870,000 people who still get -- will get Medicare advantage while all the rest of the country doesn't get the benefit of that. You can have millions of seniors that really are going to be left out in the cold while they take care of a few special Democrat places.
The American people have caught on this bill is a travesty. It is going to cost an arm and a leg. It is going to double and triple our national debt. It is going to cost $500 billion in new taxes. Medicare is going to lose $500 billion and they are going to use that to start a new entitlement program.
There are going to be 1,700 new federal programs that the secretary of Health and Human Services can call and do. I mean, my gosh, it doesn't take any brains to realize these people are nuts. I'm sorry to be so harsh on my colleagues, but they know it.
They just -- they've come to this conclusion if they don't pass the bill they get killed. If they do pass it then it is probably better for them. I don't think so. I think if they pass it the American people are never going to get over it.
There is no guarantee it Senate is going to do what they want on reconciliation. And they better not rely on Senate to make the changes that they want, because they are unwilling to vote for the original bill in the House. They're counting on Senate living up to --
VAN SUSTEREN: You don't that is going to happen?
HATCH: You never know, but all I can say is the Senate is a big mess.
There's just one other thing. This bill is going to allow taxpayer financing of abortions. Look --
VAN SUSTEREN: They say no.
HATCH: Oh come on.
VAN SUSTEREN: Stupak people want stricter language. The House Democrats say no. Do you think they are trying to slip it in?
HATCH: Of course they are. The fact of the matter is there will be ways that people will -- you have to buy a program under this federal program, under this bill. And almost all of those programs will have some financing for abortion.
There's no question about it. We just a letter from the Catholic bishops who make it very, very clear if you read that letter that there's no way this bill will not provide federal financing for abortion, something that even pro-abortion people are against.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why didn't the Senate when it initially debated the bill adopt the Stupak language? What was the hold up, because that would have prevented a lot of this situation now?
HATCH: Because they know darn will that they are going to slip in abortion here.
VAN SUSTEREN: So you think this was part of the Democratic plan in the Senate from day one is they didn't want the Stupak language because that meant that there was a way they could slide some federal funding for abortion in?
HATCH: I'll tell what you the problem. Under the Hyde amendment, which we always pass on appropriations basis, that Hyde amendment says taxpayers should not be saddled with funding abortion. But that's on an appropriations basis.
If this bill passes it doesn't need appropriations. And so this bill allows the incipient increase of abortion paid for in part by the federal government. And they know it and they are trying get away with that.
And any time you see Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi, who are two of the most pro-abortion people in the history of the country who think this is good language, it tells you whose side they are on.
VAN SUSTEREN: Senator, thank you sir.
HATCH: OK, nice to see you.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nice to see you.
VAN SUSTEREN: We couldn't show you all of our interview with Senator Hatch. There is more, of course, so check out the entire interview tomorrow at, where else, GretaWire.com, of course.
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