This is a rush transcript from "Glenn Beck," April 14, 2009. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GLENN BECK, HOST: If I hear one more time people say, "You know, you don't have to pay taxes, you don't."
Well, Jack, if there was a way to not pay taxes, I would be in that boat.
Beverly Goodman is here, senior editor of SmartMoney magazine.
How are you, Beverly?
BEVERLY GOODMAN, SMARTMONEY: I'm great. Thank you, Glenn.
BECK: Good. OK. So, I hear this all the time, "You know, nowhere in the Constitution — nowhere in the Constitution — does it say you have to pay your taxes."
GOODMAN: Not true. You can dispel that right now. We can talk Constitution: In article one, section eight, clause one, it is right there that Congress has the ability to lay and collect taxes. It was even then embellished in the 16th Amendment which further solidified it.
There is absolutely the right.
BECK: OK. So, let's go through some of these things:
You have — you don't have to file — you don't have to file taxes because it violates the Constitution, not that there's no law regulating taxes, but also it violates the Constitution. What's that one?
GOODMAN: Well, some people have claimed that it violates the Fourth Amendment, right to privacy, or the Fifth Amendment, right to self incrimination. The courts have consistently dismissed that, saying that the basic financial information included in those rights is just — it doesn't infringe.
BECK: What about — what about the idea that the law is not a respecter of persons that everybody is treated equally under the law? How is it that we can go, "Oh, you are the top 1 percent, you suck"? You know what I mean?
GOODMAN: Well, in — yes, but in the 16th Amendment, it sort of furthers this notion that the Congress can tax. It does prevent Congress from laying taxes according to geography or wealth of a particular area. People — individuals — are supposed to be treated equally and you can argue that they are.
BECK: With the exception of the people that they tried to — Congress tried — that's what Congress is trying to do with AIG.
BECK: And they said we're going after these specific people.
GOODMAN: And there was a lot of outcry, justifiable so.
BECK: Right, right. People say that it's voluntary, that you don't actually have to pay for it. The tax code says it's voluntary.
GOODMAN: It does. But in this case, voluntary means that it's up to us to do it ourselves. We sit down with our 1040 and we decide how much we owe based on the — you know, the laws and we submit our payment or we collect our refund. What "voluntary" means in that case is that the government doesn't send a bill and then send the collector to collect on that bill.
BECK: OK. The name of the magazine is SmartMoney. SmartMoney would find a way not to pay taxes.
BECK: Is there any way, I mean, Wesley Snipes, didn't he? That's what he went to jail for, right?
BECK: "Passenger 57" is now like inmate 1157?
GOODMAN: Not yet. He is free until the appeal goes through.
BECK: Oh, is he, really?
GOODMAN: He was sentenced for three years.
BECK: Does he have a chance of not going to jail?
GOODMAN: I would say there's always a chance but I think it's unlikely.
BECK: Was he — because he was really trying — he wasn't trying to avoid and escape. He really said, "There are no, you can't take taxes from me."
GOODMAN: His argument hangs on the part of the IRS code called — it's the number 861.
BECK: Oh. How's that?
GOODMAN: And that basically — that basically defines what is domestic income and what is foreign income. And Wesley Snipes' argument was that he only owed taxes on foreign income, basically money he made overseas. So, that's what he claims and obviously it didn't work out so well.
BECK: Well, that's the kind of opposite of what Charlie Rangel claims.
OK. The fourth myth is you can't take tips.
GOODMAN: Well, yes. There are a lot of people for whatever reason — this is not a constitutional issue — that think that the exchange of money for labor is not a taxable gain. And again, the courts have consistently dismissed that.
BECK: It's called paying it under the table.
BECK: I mean, who doesn't know that paying it under the table implies — shhh, quiet, don't tell anybody.
GOODMAN: There are people that will try anything and I promise you, they spend more on legal fees trying to defend these idiot notions.
BECK: That's what — you know, that's what — yes, because I have heard that there are books that are out and they are like, "Oh, no, we can do it."
You know what? If you could do it, everybody would be doing it.
BECK: Yes. OK. Then there is tax forms don't meet the requirement of — I love this one — Paperwork Reduction Act. This is the Clinton thing, right?
GOODMAN: It goes back to 1980.
BECK: Oh, OK.
GOODMAN: The Paperwork Reduction Act goes back to 1980. And, basically, this is real minutia. It has to do with this code that the OMB is supposed to put on certain documents to make it sort of the Paperwork Reduction Act. And — it really, that code is actually on the 1040. It happens to not be on the instruction book. And again, no court has ever entertained it.
BECK: Who even thinks of — look for the code? Who does that?
GOODMAN: Exactly. A lot of people that don't want to pay their taxes do it.
BECK: Holy cow. Is there — is there any — have you found any interesting case or anybody that is starting to make an interesting run at it?
GOODMAN: Not broadly speaking. There are a lot of interesting cases that work their way through the tax courts that hinge on specific deductions. There is one, for instance, that has to do with a stripper that tried to deduct breast implants, which is normally not allowed, but in her case, it was allowed.
BECK: I'm getting breast implants.
GOODMAN: So, there are some there are some wins out there.
BECK: Oh, I already have them!
BECK: OK. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.
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