This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," December 1, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Joran van der Sloot told us on tape that he sold Natalee Holloway on a beach in Aruba for about $10,000. Well, Joran now says he was lying to us. Well, was he, or did he get cold feet having told us? One person wants action and wants it now, the Holloway family lawyer, John Q. Kelly.
In a letter to the Aruban prosecutor given to us by the family of Natalee Holloway, Kelly says, in part, "A newly released videotape of Joran van der Sloot making statements against penal interests (admitting to kidnapping, human trafficking, conspiracy and other crimes) to Greta Van Susteren is readily available ... and independently corroborated by the undisputed fact that he was the last person with Natalee when she vanished from the beach by the fisherman's huts. That, coupled with the fact that he initially fabricated demonstrably false accounts as to what happened to Natalee ... and was accused by the Kalpoes of engaging in criminal conduct in Natalee's disappearance ... in a June 29, 2005, surreptitiously recorded audiotape, all provide a more than sufficient legal basis for the immediate issuance of an arrest warrant for Joran van der Sloot." Kelly says there is enough evidence to arrest Paulus van der Sloot and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.
Now, will the Aruban prosecutor agree? Let's ask your legal panel. Joining us, Jim Hammer, former assistant DA of San Francisco, and criminal defense attorneys Ted Williams and Bernie Grimm.
Jim, you also went down there and confronted Paulus for us with the tapes, or at least made available some of the information. What do you think -- knowing the standard in Aruba, which is less than here in the United States, what do you think about the John Q. Kelly letter that the family gave us?
JIM HAMMER, FORMER ASSISTANT SAN FRANCISCO DA: Well, I think even under their loose standard, you could lock up Joran, but I think there's nothing to hold him with in that. I don't think we can put any faith in anything he says. I think the most damning thing, though, is said by Paulus, his father, the one I confronted down there. At the end of that entire tape, he says, Listen, keep your mouth shut, essentially, Keep it secret, don't cooperate with the authorities. I think that's a clear case of conspiracy to obstruct justice, to keep the truth from the authorities. For a lawyer to do that, Greta, is damning, and he ought to be arrested.
VAN SUSTEREN: Bernie, the most peculiar aspect of this -- I mean, we set out to prove or disprove what Joran told us. We don't know if that -- when he told us -- he told us -- he made us a statement about sale, then eight hours later says that's a lie. We don't know if he got cold feet and suddenly wished he hadn't said it, or if, indeed, it was a lie.
Joran was arrested on June 9, '05. On June 29, '05, the letter that John Q. -- or the tape that John Q. Kelly refers to in this letter is the three are in the back of a police truck and don't know that they're being recorded, and they talk about her as though she were alive.
BERNIE GRIMM, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, you know, you mentioned that before we started the show. And to me, the statements that are most damning -- and I think Jim Hammer would agree with me -- are statements that people naturally make when there is no motive to lie and there is...
HAMMER: Exactly.
GRIMM: ... They don't know they're being recorded and it's just said in a natural sort of element. That to me is compelling. Now, consider the fact that's not going to get him locked up, and this last statement that he made to you, it's -- I thought that it was a tremendous effort there, but I simply don't believe him because he's (INAUDIBLE) I mean, he could say Ted did it tomorrow, so...
VAN SUSTEREN: But I don't -- I don't -- but the thing is, it's not a question of whether you believe him or not believe him because that's not the issue. The issue is whether a prosecutor should go out and either attempt to prove or disprove what he has said. And one of the things that we supplied was a chip that Joran says is a conversation with his father, and which you talk about yourself is a conversation with his father, assuming it to be authentic -- and I have -- you know, I wish the prosecutor would either authenticate it or disprove it -- he didn't know that he was going to be taped. And they actually talk about trafficking and actually talk about it being a bad thing. And that's a perfect example.
TED WILLIAMS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But Greta, there is a dichotomy between re-arresting somebody and corroborating evidence. I believe that everything that's in your interview needs to be corroborated. I think that the Aruban authorities need to follow up on the leads. But should there be a re-arrest right now? I do not believe that they would be able to hold Joran at this time and I don't believe in a re-arrest.
VAN SUSTEREN: I will tell you that here in the United States, they probably would not have enough. But they have a much lesser standard in Aruba when we were down there. And the one thing that needs to be done is that chip. If that chip that Joran van der Sloot gave us of his father, then that's a whole different story if that is, indeed, an authentic one.
WILLIAMS: Well, not only that, what about the Western Union calls? What about the cell phones? All of those things could be corroborated by the authorities down there if they will investigate it.
VAN SUSTEREN: I'm just saying that what they -- under the law in Aruba, to arrest someone, since the standard is ever so slight -- frankly, I don't agree with the standard being ever so slight. But Jim, if it turns out that that -- that that conversation was an authentic -- was a real one between Joran and his father, at a time when he wouldn't have known it was taped, and it is his father...
HAMMER: Boy...
VAN SUSTEREN: ... Then that's whole -- then there's problems for Paulus.
HAMMER: Then...
VAN SUSTEREN: If, if.
HAMMER: Then this -- if that's true and it's authenticated, Greta, this is the craziest case we've ever talked about. I mean, and the thing that still troubles me is, give me another scenario by which his father would have uttered the words "human trafficking." I mean, it is such a distinctive thing to come out of his father's mouth. But the last thing, Greta, rather than do an arrest right now, they ought to do the spade work, the hard work of corroboration. If those wire transfers could be proven, Greta, together with his story, then we've got a real, real dynamite piece of evidence here.
VAN SUSTEREN: And of course, but the thing is that you've got to have a willingness to either prove or disprove. And if you're not even going to bother to do either, you're never going to find out.
GRIMM: Yes, I know what your point is, which is, you know, let the cards fall where they may. He gets found guilty, not guilty, but at least do the legwork. And I think what Jim's saying -- you know, people think -- and a lot of our people think cases are made by the CSI stuff. It's not. It's out knocking on doors, doing the legwork, serving subpoenas, getting cell phone records, Western Union records, all this stuff...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN SUSTEREN: If that chip is the real deal, that changes everything.
GRIMM: Wow.
VAN SUSTEREN: Everything completely. But you got to at least -- if, if it's the real deal. But that's -- Joran is telling us that it is. I don't know. Anyway, panel, stand by.
Up next: Two friends of the Holloway family give you important information about Natalee's disappearance. They spoke to Joran's former headmaster on Aruba. What might this headmaster know?
Then: Our interview with Joran van der Sloot is creating big waves tonight in Aruba. The Aruban minister of justice is paying attention, talking about the interview. He doesn't sound happy. Now, cross your fingers. This might be good news, but maybe not for the prosecutor. And your legal panel will return.
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