This is a rush transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," November 6, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a "Hannity & Colmes" exclusive. You've heard the tape.
DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN, BOUNTY HUNTER: I'm not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I've worked for for 30 years because some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) heard us say (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
COLMES: You've seen the comparisons.
MICHAEL RICHARDS, COMEDIAN: He's a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! He's a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.
DON IMUS, FORMER RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Some nappy-headed hos there.
COLMES: But tonight for the first time, Duane "Dog" Chapman breaks his silence about the controversy surrounding the phone call to his son and the status of his popular television show.
Only one place has the Dog first. It's on "Hannity & Colmes" right now.
HANNITY: And welcome to "Hannity & Colmes." I'm Sean Hannity, and I am reporting from Los Angeles tonight, where just moments ago, I spoke with Duane "Dog" Chapman in an exclusive interview, his first since the release of a taped phone call with his son in which Chapman used racially charged language.
Now tonight for the first time, the Dog tells us what happened and why.
HANNITY: You're living your life under fire right now. And we want to talk about it at length. We have this tape that has been released. Let's play it, and then we'll talk about it. Let's play part of this tape. The first part that was released.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
D. CHAPMAN: I'm not taking a chance on some (EXPLETIVE DELETED). She is a Mexican, a (EXPLETIVE DELETED), whatever. It's not because she's black. It's because we've used the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sometimes here. I'm not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I've worked for for 30 years because some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) heard us say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and turned us into The Enquirer magazine. Our career is over.
I'm not taking that chance at all, never in life. Never, never. If Lyssa was dating a (EXPLETIVE DELETED), we would all say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. And you know that. If Lyssa brought a black guy home, yada yada. And it's not that they're black. It's none of that. It's that we use the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
We don't mean you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) scum (EXPLETIVE DELETED) without a soul. We don't mean that (EXPLETIVE DELETED). But America would think we mean that.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HANNITY: You're breaking down just hearing that. What's going on?
D. CHAPMAN: ... you know, really terrible. I don't — I — that's — that is a terrible thing that I said. It hurts worse to hear it over and over. And I am very sorry that I said that.
HANNITY: I want to get to the — you've given a written apology. Is this — is this how you've often talked? Did you not know that, when you use that word that — what the reaction would be? Because you even say — you suggest in this whole thing that you know what would happen if America — America, at one point, you said, would not understand it. America would not think what we mean.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, I didn't, of course, want America to hear that. And of course, I knew that that was a word that I should not be saying. As far as believing in what that word means, I did not — I do not believe that that word is — means what a lot of America is thinking.
And that's what I didn't want to have to do, was explain to America what that word meant to me.
HANNITY: If you knew — you're a public figure. If you knew that America will react that way — you've had some time to think about it since this has been released. Have you thought back as to why you would continue to use the word?
And you know, I don't want her around her not because — you talk about not because of the race issue, but because you guys at the production company, I assumed is what you were referring to, use that word.
D. CHAPMAN: No. It's like I use the word. My little baby is 8. And she came to me and said, "Dad, we don't say that." And a lot of times a boxer is in the ring, and he does a good job. In the interview right after, he says, we knocked them out.
And I always think, what do you mean, we? You just is in there by yourself. I know what "we" means now. I've used the word for a long time not to mean what it does to a lot of black people that are offended.
I will try never, ever, ever to use that word again. I did not — I did not ever want to be in the hot seat as I am right now, the hottest seat I've been in, because I'm always in the hot seat anyway. I didn't want to have to explain to America outside my family and people that I love that know me what that means.
I thought that I was cool enough in the black world to be able to use that word as a brother to a brother. I'm not. I didn't really know until three or four days ago what that meant to black people.
Of course, I know the story, and I know America's story. But I never realized that that's like stabbing a black person in the heart. I would never do that to any kind of person. I've always taken pride to be the white guy that can talk to the black people, that can refer to them truly as a brother from a different mother.
But this is America and this is entertainment, and that doesn't fly there.
HANNITY: There's another aspect to this story, and you refer to it in the tape, that there's a sort of — something else was going on here. I want to ask you about it.
Let me play the second part of this tape, where you refer to this girlfriend of your son, Tucker's, and how she had potentially been involved in an incident with your wife and that there had been other attempts at taping you, because they knew you used bad language.
Let's roll that tape.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
D. CHAPMAN: So, I will help you get another job, but you can not work here unless you break up with her and she's out of your life. I can't handle that (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I've got them in the parking lot trying to record us. I got that girl saying she's going to wear a recorder...
TUCKER CHAPMAN, SON: I don't even know what to say.
D. CHAPMAN: The girl said she's going to wear a goddamn recorder.
T. CHAPMAN: No she didn't.
D. CHAPMAN: Your girl was going to jump Beth one day.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HANNITY: What was that about? And tell us the story of what's going on with your son. I watched one episode with your son, Tucker. You — he had spent time in jail. You took him back to jail. And you actually said at the time that if he ends up back there, "It's your responsibility," you said.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, Tucker's birthday, and I surprised him by taking him back. This sounds terrible. I surprised him by taking him back to the original cell that he was in. And I said, "Tucker, you know, it's not my fault that you went to prison after I tried to raise you right, but it is my fault, now that you're out of prison and a man, if you go again."
And he said, "Dad, I accept that."
I said — so it was kind of like Tucker was born. His mother's water broke. We couldn't make it to the doctor. I pulled Tucker out, and I thought he was dead. He was all blue. And I laid him to the side.
I kept pulling, and of course, the placenta was there and thought, oh no, she has twins and this one is deformed. And there was ambulances calling, and the ambulance driver walked in and said, "Good job, father, but you didn't cut the cord."
So when he cut the cord, Tucker started peeing all over my face — and I was, again — and he said, "Great job," and Tucker took a breath of life. So I rode in the ambulance with Tucker, and on the birth certificate it says "delivered by father."
I was in prison in Texas Department of Corrections. I named Tucker, Tucker D. Chapman, TDC. Because in my life I had to have to something take over that TDC, Tucker — Texas Department of Corrections.
So I thought, this is the son that I will have, that I will be a good guy for and never go back to prison. I couldn't name him "prison." But it was kind of like naming — there's a song with Johnny Cash, name your boy Sue. It was kind of like that, I was in back then when he was born.
And so, I did — I failed Tucker because he went to prison, the bottom line.
HANNITY: Originally, why did he go to prison?
D. CHAPMAN: Tucker went to prison for robbing a tourist with a BB gun and got a 20-year sentence for armed robbery. So I had let him down. When you go — when your son — kids go to jail or something, you feel as a parent you let him down.
So I let him down once. So I said, "Now that we're walking out of this cell, I will not leave you — let you down, because I'm going to stay with you." So — I need one of those, please.
CHAPMAN: Thank you. So Tucker and I were beefing about something that I had thought Tucker had fooled an organization on. And I — you know, and Tucker is on parole, so I was worried that Tucker was obtaining something that he shouldn't, you know, have.
And then I head about this girl that, all of a sudden, she's coming around and you know, now it sounds like it was all that she's a decent girl. But back then I was being a — you know, I had to guard Tucker, because this time the reflection was on me. I couldn't let Tucker fail.
I heard that that day we'd gotten a letter in the front of the office, through the door, that had that word on it 25 times. It said "Dog is a..." and then the word "hates Dog." And I was like, what is this about?
And my baby Lyssa then took it to Beth, and Beth said, "What is this?" So the word was written like 25 times on a piece of paper. And I - - it never registered because we get a lot of fan mail and...
COLMES: Coming up next, Dog Chapman talks more about his son Tucker's time in prison and his struggle with drug abuse. Coming right up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. CHAPMAN: We'll deal with that son of a bitch. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(UNINTELLIGIBLE) Search him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLMES: Welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity & Colmes." We now continue with Sean's exclusive interview with Duane "Dog" Chapman. It's his first interview since the world heard the tape of the phone conversation he has with his son.
HANNITY: All right, Dog, I want to go back to the second part of this tape. You talk about your son, who'd been in jail, and that you'd made a promise to him, if he went back to jail, it's going to be your fault. And you talk about his girlfriend.
And you said a couple of things specifically here. You said, a number of times, "I don't care if she's Mexican." You don't care about race in this particular issue or the person's black. It's not that they're black.
There is another — you're saying that there is a reason why you were saying this, and it had to do with some threats that both she and your son were doing to you and your wife. What is that specifically about?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, Beth and I had gotten a message from Youngblood, Tim, my brother, that there were girls sitting out in the parking lot in tank-type shirts and were going to jump Beth. And when they jumped Beth, they would have a tape recorder on there, on their bodies to turn it into the "National Enquirer."
So that's exactly what I was saying: Tucker, your friends are going to jump Beth and record it. And as, of course, he's recording, he says, "No, I'm not, Dad."
HANNITY: But you knew what he was trying to record. You knew that he knew that, in other words, that the language that you used, you knew would be unacceptable. And yet you knew he was trying to get it and that he was putting it — is there a reason why, do you think, that they were trying to do this? Was it for money? Is there something else going on?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, Tucker, yes. There — this "Enquirer" magazine pays you money, whether you tell the truth or a lie. And so they're, you know, stealing my children, basically.
What the "Enquirer" magazine did is found a guy that the world has made a celebrity, a real guy that my fans have molded and made me. And they said, "This guy's like a pin cushion. He used to do drugs. He's been in jail for murder. He says the 'N' word. This is a guy here. If we want to make a lot of money, we can destroy this guy." And that's exactly what they did.
HANNITY: How old is this conversation?
D. CHAPMAN: This conversation was done in March, so eight months old.
HANNITY: OK. And how much did they pay your son for this?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, I think they gave him $15,000. That's the alleged rumor.
HANNITY: Why would your son do this to you?
D. CHAPMAN: You know, I don't know. I mean, I guess I would say I've been to prison, and I wouldn't do this to my father. I don't know why he would do it, unless you know, there's some kind of habit or something he needs the money for.
HANNITY: Habit? Drugs?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, absolutely drugs. That's the reason Tucker went to prison in the beginning.
HANNITY: And there's a 21-year probation that was part of the sentence?
D. CHAPMAN: Tucker has a 20-year parole. He's on parole for 20 years, so Tucker can't do any kind of drug. He can't drink. He can't do anything.
I had heard rumor that he had maybe failed a drug test at the parole department. And I'm like, "Tucker, what's going on?" I had heard rumor that she was buying things to beat the parole test, like I was freaked out.
It doesn't make an excuse for me to say that word, ever. Even if someone is dying, I cannot say that.
HANNITY: You on your show often the use "M-F" word. I mean, A, B, C, D, E, F, I've seen your show.
D. CHAPMAN: Right.
HANNITY: There's salty language. This is not — you're a bounty hunter. You're out there getting criminals on the street. And this is — is this a word you use with regularity throughout the years and now, only in the last four days have realized, five days, that it's wrong to use?
D. CHAPMAN: I was sitting in a studio when the other person used the word.
HANNITY: But did you use it regularly?
D. CHAPMAN: Not that regularly, only probably as a greeting to a black person where they'd come up, "Hey, my N-dog." And I'd be like, stick my head in his chest, "Hi, man, how are you doing?"
I wouldn't turn around and say, "Hi," and use it out loud, because I'm going to get beat up, but I used it as a — when I meet a brother, and we shake, and we say, "How's it," that's how it is. It's not a degrading thing at all.
HANNITY: You said this is how you would greet — you told me privately — Snoop Dogg. Is that true?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, that's exactly right. I mean, you just can't walk up to someone, "Hi." You know, you'd get hit in the mouth. But when a brother says that to you first or you realize that there's — there's a special connection that I thought I had between me and black America.
And I used to say, "I'm black, too." In other words, I — my whole life I've been called a half-breed, a convict, king of the trailer trash, this and that. I take that and stand.
So when I stood there and said, "I kind of know what you feel like, because I've been there, too," I felt that I could embrace and like, as brothers or, even as a black woman, say the word.
You can't — I now learned I'm not black at all. And I never did it out of hate. This sounds so stupid. I always did it out of love. Other white guys would be like, "Boy, who does Dog think he is? Dog can say that." And black guys would be with me and walk with me and respect me.
So I went too far with that. I got — I should have never, ever...
HANNITY: And coming up next, Dog will take us through his heartfelt apology, and he will tell us what he's willing to do for the forgiveness of America. Much more ahead.
HANNITY: And welcome back to this special edition of "Hannity & Colmes". We're in Los Angeles. We continue now with my exclusive interview with the Dog Chapman.
HANNITY: All right, Dog, I want to go to the written apology...
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.
HANNITY: ... that you had sent out. You said, "My sincerest, heartfelt apologies go out to every person that I have offended for my regrettable use of this very inappropriate language. I am deeply disappointed in myself for speaking out of anger to my son and using such hateful — a hateful term in a private telephone conversation."
You said, "I did not mean to yet add another slap in the face to an entire race of people who have brought so many gifts to us in this world. I'm ashamed of myself, and I pledge to do whatever I can to repair the damage that I have caused."
Maybe tonight do you want to say it to people yourself? I mean...
D. CHAPMAN: Well, can I...
HANNITY: This is the first time you've spoken out now since...
D. CHAPMAN: Can I talk?
D. CHAPMAN: So, first of all, I owe Monique and Tucker an apology. My son knows my heart.
Second of all, of course, all black people in America I owe an apology to. Whether how dark I think I am, I cannot say that word.
I owe the rest of the people, whether they're black or not in America, an apology, because people looked up to me. I've learned a lesson. All my lessons I've learned in my life have been the hard way, or I guess I wouldn't learn them. This is one of the hardest lessons I've ever learned in my life, even facing death.
If I could kill myself and people would forgive me, I would do that. I said on the way here, "I hope no one died thinking I meant that word before I got here. I must come out."
I read a letter from a lady who's 85 years old that wrote A&E and said, "What did you do with our Dog?"
I said, "Beth, in writing is not enough. I must say it in person."
HANNITY: Do you want to look in the camera and tell people directly?
D. CHAPMAN: I'm very sorry, and I apologize with all my heart. The last of my letter, would you read what I wrote?
HANNITY: Yes. You said — you said, "I am deeply disappointed in myself for speaking out of anger to my son and using such a hateful term in a private conversation. I'm disappointed in his choice of a friend, not due to her race, but her character. However, I should never have used that term."
You said, "I know that all my fans are deeply disappointed in me. As well, I have tried to be a model for doing the right thing. I did not do the right thing this time and hope you will forgive me."
D. CHAPMAN: And that's exactly what I say. I did not do the right thing. I don't care how close I could get to any nationality, to be able - - the Bible says, to be all things to all men. I thought that I could say that. I cannot, because of the color of my skin.
That word means something else that now I understand, that no matter how you say it, how you spell it, even, it still refers to slavery. I don't like that. I am not like that. God knows that.
People that know me — now, those people that now are making money on saying they know me, because the magazine pays and there are going to be many of them through my life and have been. But people that really know me know that I've been warned by my black friends, by the way, "Dog, listen, watch how we say that."
And I was like, "Oh, come on. People know I'm the Dog and, you know, we're cool."
So I've been warned. It's not that I haven't been warned, by both white and black.
HANNITY: We're almost — did you ever at any point down the line think and stop, knowing you — you sort of knew in this statement originally...
D. CHAPMAN: Right.
HANNITY: ... that people would react this way. Did you ever stop to think before these four days?
D. CHAPMAN: No. No. I never — I thought that anybody that would hear that would know me and understand that's how Dog is. Dog is cool. Dog, we love Dog. You know, that's our Dog. That's why my name is that: "That's our Dog. He's OK." I didn't know that it would do this.
There is no excuse. I am guilty, and I will take my punishment. But the end of what I said is I will do everything there is in my power to make sure people have forgiven me. I will not stop until they say, "Dog has been forgiven."
I am so sorry. I am so — there's not — you get where — you know, when someone dies, there's no words you could tell a father or mother to tell them you're sorry about it. This fits into that category.
There's no words that anybody in any television show could think of to say when I'm sorry. I will prove it.
COLMES: And coming up, Dog will react to his son's plea for the public's forgiveness. And the girlfriend in question breaks her silence, coming up.
COLMES: And we continue now with Sean's exclusive interview with Duane "Dog" Chapman.
HANNITY: Dog, there's a lot of people that are responding to this whole issue, some favorably, some negatively. And I want to give you a chance to respond tonight. The first one is one of your other sons.
This is Chris on TMZ and what he said earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CHAPMAN, SON: My dad is not a racist man. If he was he would have no hair. He'd have swastikas on his body and he would go around talking about Hitler. That's what a racist is to me.
I don't even know who my brother's girlfriend is. I've never even met her.
My dad has had a problem with every one of my girlfriends.
Dog is not this monster that people think. Dog is one of the most incredible men I've ever met and the best father you could even imagine. I'm here to redeem my relationship with my father and try to make things a little easier on his life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he going to forgive you?
C. CHAPMAN: I hope so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: That's your son.
D. CHAPMAN: That's my son.
HANNITY: Let me go to Tucker's girlfriend, Monique. She's given an interview, "National Enquirer", and this is part of what she had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MONIQUE SHINNERY, TUCKER CHAPMAN'S GIRLFRIEND: I believe that Duane is a racist, because I've heard many times what he says about me. Not just this one time but a lot of things he says and a lot of things he does.
I think it was good for A&E to take him off the air, because he portrays to be a role model and he's not. He's the exact opposite.
I want to take this moment out to say that I've never been in any trouble, so I really don't get you judging my character. You've never met me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
D. CHAPMAN: I have never met her. She's a cute little girl. I didn't know that. I never knew what she looked like.
HANNITY: Well, you have an opportunity tonight. You started to talk to her earlier. You want to say anything to her? You want to...
D. CHAPMAN: Just, you know, I'm so sorry, honey, I'm so sorry. I'm not like that. You know that. I'm very sorry.
I have it. Thank you.
HANNITY: There is — "The Enquirer" did come out with a story. You have an ex-wife.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, Tara's mother.
HANNITY: And she said that she — she says that you've used this language many, many years but you're admitting to that, and you're saying that you acknowledge you've used this term.
D. CHAPMAN: Right. That's Big Lyssa. I haven't seen her since the '80s, but she was — you know, I got out of prison in 1979, so of course, Lyssa met me then.
I was in Texas Penitentiary with 30,000 inmates, and 80 percent were black. So I would imagine that she did hear — my cellie, Edward Whittaker (ph) didn't have anywhere to live so I got married in Denver and told her one day, "Guess who's coming to dinner. This is my cellie. He's black. His name is Edward Whittaker."
So, yes, she knows what I think about black people.
But again, you know, anybody in the past that, when you divorce or you end up in bad terms. My daughter was with her with her when my daughter was killed high speed, in a car full of dope.
So, you know, it's better for me not to air out my family things on television. Yes, I've been divorced. I've got problems. And who knows who'll lie for money?
But they all know in their hearts how Dog really is.
HANNITY: Is this about now, money, that they're paying — they paid your son for the tape. It was a private conversation. But you did say it, and is that a big factor here? Should people pay attention to the fact that people are paying other family members to come out and go out and tape them, if they're famous, and sell it to the newspapers?
D. CHAPMAN: Oh, it's the only reason. I mean, all these — all these people are drug addicts, you know, Christopher and — sorry Christopher — and Tucker. They just got out of prison, both of them. So, you know, all of these people have got to have money or they will not talk.
And I'm not talking not 50, 60, 150,000. I'm talking six, seven, 10, 15 grand. My son Tucker has never seen $15,000 in his life. And sorry, Christopher, my son Christopher has never seen $6,000 in his life.
And, you know, when you tell people that haven't seen that kind of money, "I don't care what you do. Here's money."
Now dad has cut — obviously, they've been cut off. You know, you don't get any money anymore unless you work. Or you don't get any money no more, Christopher, unless you stay out of prison a year, show Dad that you can do that. Then you get to come where the little kids are.
Tucker, you have to work every day. You can't get hot UAs (ph). You've got to stop this. You have to come. We have babies at home.
When conditions are set down like that, then they're going to — I guess, prison teaches them to sell out, for cash. It's all cash.
Tucker's mom lives in — somewhere in Alaska and I don't think has seen much money but from what I've sent her on the side for the last few years. So I'm sure she got a cut of this money.
You know, anybody in my past that doesn't like me is either wanted or they're going to pay them to say it. Yes, they're going to do that. That's the kind of people I used to be associated with.
So I believe that this will follow me my whole life. I'm a real guy that had a real dream about being a real entertainer and making people cry and laugh. I never wanted to make them cry like this. And I never wanted to make them laugh like I do.
I'm going to be Dog, and I'm going to be an entertainer. And I'm going to make mistakes. Never this big again. This is the worst I've ever done. Never again. This dog learns. This dog learns. I've learned not to use that. I'm going to apologize till the day that I die.
Really fast, can I tell you what I'm going to do?
HANNITY: When we get back.
HANNITY: And coming up next, influential American civil rights leaders reach out to Dog Chapman. An inside look at their counsel, when we return, straight ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. CHAPMAN: Where the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is the guy at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, you do.
You told me you never seen him. Now (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
D. CHAPMAN: You're lying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not here right now.
D. CHAPMAN: Where are they right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: And we continue now with Dog Chapman.
HANNITY: Dog, we were talking as we were going to break here.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes.
HANNITY: You — and it's funny, because I asked three people about this. Well, four. Roy and Niger Innis with the group CORE.
D. CHAPMAN: Boy, are they great. My God, they're great people.
HANNITY: The Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson here is with the group BOND and I asked him. And I asked the Reverend Al Sharpton, you know, about what should we ask? And all of them talked about what you should do.
So I'll ask you. What are you — now that you're saying it's wrong, you're never going to do this again, you said in your apology you want to make it up. What are you going to do?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, No. 1, I went to all those black leaders, because that's the black leaders. We as Caucasians, where's our leader we go to? I'm proud to thank God they've got somebody you can go to. And they're Christians.
I go to Tim Storey. He happens to be black. But when I mess up I go to God. So all those people I went to are not just because they're black leaders but they're Christian black leaders.
There's other black leaders I could have went to that would, you know, have no mercy. You know what I mean?
So, you know, I don't — I don't know right now. I'm going to get in touch more — America expects something besides an apology. What is our Dog going to do, right? What is he going to do because of what he did?
I don't know. I'm keeping it open to what do you want me to do? Personally, here's — I've made — I had to do something for Dog personally. I've got to talk myself into a lot of steps I take in life: You're not a convict. Don't let them call you that.
But now I've had to clean myself to be able to look at myself in the mirror.
I went to see George Washington. And when I went there — his old house — and I asked the guy, "Well, how many people were here?" They said 300 a day.
So I and the tour guide got to talking about, you know, the — America and how America was in the past. And I said, well — and something was brought up about the slaves — and I said, "Well, how many" — like, I don't think they were slaves because they all had the last name of Washington ...
HANNITY: Talking about his home in...
D. CHAPMAN: His home...
HANNITY: ... Mount Vernon.
D. CHAPMAN: In Mount Vernon, correct. And so, they said, "Well, we want to show you, Dog, where we buried the slaves." And I'm like, OK, right, I know that sounds morbid, but I wanted to see that.
So I went up and they pulled over. And I was on this little golf cart, because I'm — was the celebrity. And I got up and I said — he said, OK, there's where it is at. And there was this blank hill. Right? And there were no markers at all, right?
And I said to him, "What do you mean?" I said, "This is where" — and he said, "There's five family buried there. There's buried there, there's buried there."
And I said, "Well, where's their grave markers at?"
And he said — you know, he said, "We buried them with their feet towards the Potomac." And he said it kind of — and I was like, hey, brother, you know, watch what you talk, you know, what are you saying? Because I was getting a little aggravated that he was talking stink like that.
He said, "No, Dog." He said, "The black people back then, when they died, they wanted their feet buried towards the Potomac so they could walk over the river, when they passed away, back to Africa."
And I thought, oh my God, there's not a marker in there. There's not a marker on the grave.
I have a hard problem, being some part Native American — being a Christian: do you get burned, do you get cremated, do you get — let the sharks eat you? How do you die?
I told the Lord, and I — two Catholic ladies own that property. So I've already made phone calls.
HANNITY: What are you going to do?
D. CHAPMAN: I'm going to be buried right in that center.
HANNITY: You made a deal to do that?
D. CHAPMAN: I'm making a deal. She told me, "Dog, absolutely." I want to know at least what is some of their first names. And I want to be buried right where they're at, because I will never be forgiven as I'm alive. And you and I know that.
HANNITY: You mean, for this — for this incident.
D. CHAPMAN: For this incident.
HANNITY: You don't think you'll be forgiven?
D. CHAPMAN: I — listen, being alive, is there any words I can say? Someone is still always going to hate me. But they'll be able to say, forever and ever, Dog is sorry. They'll come some day to — their children will come to there saying, "Why is Dog buried there? Why is that white man laid there?"
And they'll be able to say, "Because that white man made a terrible mistake and he requested that."
And I — that sounds like, you know, a crazy thing to say, especially on your show. But to myself I'm doing that so that everyone will know, even after I'm dead and gone, I am sorry. And I feel at home right there. And that's where I deserve to be, a grave without a marker if they're going to be that, too.
HANNITY: It sounds like you won't forgive yourself.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, I can't yet. I probably never will.
HANNITY: You were convicted of first-degree murder.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.
HANNITY: And this is — we're going to talk about your life in a little bit.
D. CHAPMAN: I didn't do that.
HANNITY: I know. But you were convicted about that.
D. CHAPMAN: I was convicted.
HANNITY: Right. OK. We'll take a break. Your pastor is going to join us when we come back. And then we're going to talk about your life in-depth. So that's all straight ahead.
COLMES: And now the conclusion of Sean's interview with Dog Chapman and some insights from his spiritual advisor and longtime friend, Pastor Tim Storey.
HANNITY: We continue now with the bounty hunter Dog Chapman, and now his pastor is with us, Tim Storey.
Pastor, thank you for being with us. Appreciate your time here. You — I didn't give you — you wanted to finish this last thought about the grave markets at Mount Vernon. And then we'll invite your pastor in here.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, when I was speaking about, you know, their last names, they said a lot of the people took the last name of Washington. So I said, "Well, where are some first names?" So I would like to develop some kind of thing that would at least put markers and say, you know, who is there and what their names are.
I mean, something — I had no idea. I know a lot of America doesn't realize that our forefather and his friends, who helped him become a man and helped him every day eat, have no markers on their graves.
HANNITY: But so the question was, you want to do something you haven't fully defined yet. You want to make good, is what you're saying. You want to find a way to answer the Reverend Sharpton's question and Jesse Lee Peterson's question and Roy and Niger Innis. You — there is — you are going to make proactive efforts, as you said in your apology. You are going to — you're going to help.
D. CHAPMAN: Absolutely, I'm going to help.
HANNITY: Make amends.
D. CHAPMAN: And make a change. Yes. And I still — you know, anything I — anything that I can do to show someone how sorry I am, I will do for the rest of my life. That's — I will absolutely do that.
HANNITY: Let me — Pastor, thank you for being with us.
D. CHAPMAN: Thank you, preacher.
HANNITY: I looked — your congregation is — first of all, you've been friends for how long?
TIM STOREY, PASTOR: Seven years.
HANNITY: Seven years. You married both him and Beth.
STOREY: Yes I did.
HANNITY: I actually saw the wedding. You lost your little girl in an accident the day before that wedding.
STOREY: Yes sir.
HANNITY: And you got — and that was on one of the episodes of "The Bounty Hunter."
HANNITY: You were there that day. Whenever I've noticed on other scenes, whenever he finds himself in life's stress and trouble, he goes to you.
HANNITY: You are an African-American. Your church is largely minority.
HANNITY: You've heard him tonight, and you've heard what he said in that tape.
STOREY: He's not a racist. What you have with Duane — I met him before he was the big Dog the Bounty Hunter, before he had the A&E show. And he's rough around the edges. And, you know, God uses shaky people to do sturdy projects.
And when I met him I knew he had trouble. He has flaws — flaws, faults, failures in his life.
This one I was shocked at. When I heard the tape, I was shocked and mad. I was mad as a black man at him. And came at him with that energy and said, "Man, you've gone too far."
HANNITY: But you've heard him curse a lot. And it's all over the show. STOREY: Yes. And the thing is, is that I've been challenging him on that for years straight, that you can't say the "G-D's" and the "M-F's" and all this. Because I bring him into these churches, predominantly inner city churches, and he sits there for two hours, signing posters and stuff for inner city kids. So I know he's not a racist, but he does have a big mouth.
But I do believe in forgiveness. I believe that you can get forgiven, that God will forget, and you can go forward.
HANNITY: Well, he's said he doesn't think anybody will forget.
HANNITY: Do you believe that? Is this — you know, you may lose, and we haven't gotten to the issue of what's up with A&E? Are you going to lose your show?
D. CHAPMAN: I don't know. I'm laid off. I mean, I don't know.
If I'm a racist, yes. I'm done.
HANNITY: But you just said tonight you're not.
D. CHAPMAN: I'm not a racist, so I'm not done. But I need forgiveness way before I need my job.
I can't say, "Go ahead, film. Go arrest these guys and everyone hate me." I can't do that.
I don't arrest for myself. I arrest for America. I don't go out there because I want to die for myself. I go out there because someone says, "You did a good job, son. You did a good job, Dog." If no one is there left to do that, I'm not going to do that.
HANNITY: Have you spoken with A&E? Have you talked to them? Have you told them your plans about trying to make good on this? Have you told them how sorry you are and what you want to do?
D. CHAPMAN: Right now I am afraid to. When it's A&E on the phone, I tell, Beth, "Tell them I'm in the bathroom."
HANNITY: But you want your show back?
D. CHAPMAN: You know, I don't know. I don't know. I mean...
HANNITY: Seven thousand plus arrests, you don't want to go back?
D. CHAPMAN: If people say that. If my fans and the people say, "We forgive you, Dog. We want you back. We now give you our blessing." But if they're like, you know, "Just another thing on Tuesday night," I don't want it back.
HANNITY: But you spent — Pastor, you can help out here. He's not Mother Teresa.
HANNITY: I mean his whole show, there's a lot of bleep bleep bleep bleep bleeps in the show.
STOREY: You know what's amazing, Sean, is a lot of people, they want mercy but they're not willing to give it out.
HANNITY: Let me ask you. Is the "N" word in Dog's life, in your estimation as a close friend and his pastor, is that the same as just any other curse?
STOREY: I will say that I've never heard him say it, but I was shocked when he said it and it did bother me. But I know that, down deep in his heart, that he doesn't mean it that way. But it's still an alarming bad word that he said.
HANNITY: Do you believe that he's capable of now saying he's going to change his life and not curse anymore?
STOREY: Not on his own. I believe that God can help him.
HANNITY: And that will be a miracle, is what you're ...
D. CHAPMAN: That's a lot of faith the preacher's got (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
STOREY: But the thing I like about him is that there's a humility that people don't see usually, that when he gets in trouble he calls me. We got on our knees today, and we prayed. He is really a man of God. And men of God make mistakes. Peter in the Bible was cussing all the way to the end.
HANNITY: ... a man after God's heart.
STOREY: King David failed. And the thing is, Dog, is that you fell forward, you fell forward.
HANNITY: We're going to run. We're going to have more on your life and your biography tomorrow night, but Dog, thank you for being with us.
D. CHAPMAN: Thank you sir.
HANNITY: Thanks for your time.
Pastor, thank you.
D. CHAPMAN: Get up here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get your old man off of him. I'll mace him off you.
D. CHAPMAN: Stop it. Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let him go and just be done with it.
D. CHAPMAN: Let him go. Let him go. Let him go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There you go. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bitch.
D. CHAPMAN: Shut up. Don't you touch him again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Now before we go tonight, the Dog wanted to clarify one small point from the interview before we left.
HANNITY: All right. We've only got about 30 seconds. You wanted — you want to clarify something?
D. CHAPMAN: I want to clarify something. When I was in Mount Vernon, I went there recently on my book tour.
D. CHAPMAN: And I saw where the slaves were buried. And I was very upset that none had a marker. And I thought right then, if I could ever do something, really, for black people, I would put a marker on at least every one.
HANNITY: And you're going to try and do that?
D. CHAPMAN: I'm going to try to do that, absolutely. I would like to lay down, right now how I feel, right next to them. I would like to — literally like to just lay down and stay there forever.
HANNITY: And that's what — if you could do that, that's one of the things you want to do?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
HANNITY: All right, Alan, we actually taped about 25 minutes more. He was beaten as a kid. He was in the Devil's Disciples motorcycle gang. How he became a bounty hunter, was found guilty of murder one and changed his life. There's a lot of spiritual, religious side to all this. And — but he was very remorseful, as you could see, about this whole incident.
COLMES: I thought it was very interesting he thought he was a brother and he was talking — he would talk brother to brother, which is why people like Sharpton and Jackson will say even African-Americans should not use that word. Regardless of whether you're white or black it's not a word to be used. But he thought of himself as one of them.
HANNITY: He swore he would — and he swore he would never use it again, and you have to decide for yourself. I believe he's sincere.
COLMES: Thank you for watching "Hannity & Colmes". See you tomorrow night.
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