This is a rush transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," October 30, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: Now for the "Top Story" tonight, joining us from Washington, a participant in that Democratic debate, Congressman Dennis Kucinich.
I notice you did not really beat up on Hillary Clinton. Did you think it was fair that the others did?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, she was spun around. It was not her finest moment, but the fact of the matter is, there is a lot about those debates that are totally artificial.
It is almost laughable when you have John Edwards criticizing Hillary for taking money from Washington lobbyists when his campaign is heavily funded from New York hedge funds; or Barack Obama criticizing her for her support of the war when she and Barack Obama have identical positions when it comes to funding the war.
So a lot of this is about nuances and not about a real difference or distinction without a difference.
O'REILLY: OK. But once in a while, something breaks out, as the driver's license thing did, because that is a simple deal. Do you support the governor of New York giving illegals driver's licenses? Yes or no and...
KUCINICH: Here is how would have answered that.
O'REILLY: . why? But wait, wait, wait. But that jumps out, that jumps out, because it is not nuance, there is not a lot of room to wiggle. But wiggle Senator Clinton did. And boy oh boy that is going to hurt her, is it not?
KUCINICH: You know what, though? Look, I don't agree with Hillary Clinton on Iraq, on Iran, on trade, on health care. I have established very strong positions challenging her on every turn. But you have to look at the environment there. That could happen to anybody getting spun around like that.
It is not necessarily the best judge of who is going to be the best leader of the country.
O'REILLY: OK. OK. But why didn't she just answer the question.
KUCINICH: . particularly.
O'REILLY: . though, Congressman? Look, do you support it or not, yes or no?
KUCINICH: Well, let me answer the question.
O'REILLY: No, whoa, whoa, whoa! I want you to answer the question.
(LAUGHTER)
O'REILLY: But I know what your answer is going to be. I do not know what her answer is going to be. And no one else does either. You can't have it both ways.
KUCINICH: You know what? I'm through defending her. I'll just say that she should have answered the question more directly. It would have been better for her if she had. I think that she does have that problem where she tries to please people on both sides of an issue. You can't always do that. And I think she found that out last night.
O'REILLY: All right. Now you want illegals to have driver's licenses.
KUCINICH: I want — in immigration, there should be a pact to legalization and then you help people get their licenses.
O'REILLY: OK. That is reasonable. That is reasonable. Now you are considered a far left guy by many.
KUCINICH: Mainstream.
O'REILLY: I like you — I want to tell the audience, I like you. You are the only Democratic presidential candidate that has got enough guts to come in here, and you don't pander to anybody, and you're not afraid of MoveOn and the other kooks.
But I want your reaction on the trend now. And I'm sure you've seen it, President Clinton interrupted, Bill Maher interrupted, Condoleezza Rice had a kook with fake blood on her hand right by her face. This is what happened last night, Senator (sic).
Roll the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEWS: She has given the Republicans the biggest issue they have got so far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All U.S. troops out of Iraq now! No more blood for oil!
MATTHEWS: Well, I agree with the sentiment, at least.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So do I.
MATTHEWS: If not the message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: All right. What a shock, MSNBC agrees with the sentiment. But the bigger question is, the far left loons are running wild, and they've been emboldened. What do you think about that?
KUCINICH: I wouldn't ever want to go along with your characterization. But I would want to say this, that, you know, our political debate sometimes gets out of hand, and I think it is better when — let me back up a minute.
You know, Bill, this is kind of symptomatic of the times. There was a poem written about a hundred years ago called "The Second Coming" that talks about the center not holding and all things falling apart. We are starting to see, you know, symptoms of that in our society. And with the president talking about World War III, with there being a lot of emotion in the air, you know, things are getting out of control. And that is just an example. And I think it could happen.
(CROSSTALK)
O'REILLY: All right. But there have been many examples over the past.
KUCINICH: . of any political persuasion.
O'REILLY: All right. But it is all generated by the far left. Now what is wrong with my characterization? Because look, when you have these 9/11 conspirators telling Bill Clinton at a speech that there was an inside job, when you have gay militants invading a church in San Francisco and defiling the Eucharist, and it is all coming from the far left, you can't argue with that. It is right before our eyes here, Senator (sic).
KUCINICH: Well, you know, I mean, I believe in preserving the sacred. And I also believe that if — that former presidents, whatever their politics, deserve respect. So you know, we have to have a certain amount of respect. We also have to have truth-telling too.
In a democratic society, with the First Amendment, there is always going to be a balance to that...
(CROSSTALK)
O'REILLY: But truth-telling does not mean that you have a right to go up to the secretary of state and get right in her face with a bloody hand. And that is dangerous. So I want responsible politicians, and I believe you are one, to speak out against this.
KUCINICH: I think it is — was it Justice Holmes — you know, there was one of the justices said that your freedom to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. So there is a point at which you can cross the line. I think that the conditions that are existing today in our politics, Bill, where people feel that Washington is not responsive in any way, Democrats or Republicans...
O'REILLY: Then elect new people.
KUCINICH: Democrats and Republicans alike. I think it is driving people to be a little bit more desperate. I'm not justifying it...
(CROSSTALK)
O'REILLY: You can't have anarchy, though, anarchy is dangerous, as you know. Hey, Congressman.
KUCINICH: I wish.
O'REILLY: Go ahead, last word.
KUCINICH: I wish we had — I wish the Democrats here did have a firm hand on governance. They told the American people a year ago they were going to get out of Iraq. They haven't done it. I mean, I'm take issue with my own party, Bill.
O'REILLY: All right. We are going to have you back. I want to talk about the UFO deal that you apparently saw. That's very interesting. But you are always welcome, Congressman, you are a standup guy, and we appreciate it.
KUCINICH: Thank you, Bill.
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