This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," May 1, 2006, that has been edited for clarity.
ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: The attorney for Reade Seligmann, one of two Duke lacrosse players charged with raping a stripper, has filed these time-stamped photographs showing Seligmann arriving at an ATM machine at 12:24 a.m. on March 14. The attorney says this confirms his client's alibi during the alleged attack, which defense says occurred between midnight and 12:30.
Seligmann's attorney also filed a motion today seeking Durham district attorney Mike Nifong's removal from the case saying the D.A. is using the investigation to improve his chances in tomorrow's Democratic primary.
Joining us now is former prosecutor Ann Bremner and criminal defense attorney Natasha Lapiner-Giresi. We welcome you both.
NATASHA LAPINER-GIRESI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thanks.
COLMES: Ann, first of all, it could be — Seligmann might be one of a number of people involved in this. Secondly, the time stamp on the camera could be wrong.
ANN BREMNER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Right.
COLMES: Thirdly, we have witnesses stating she went into the house earlier than was originally stated by the defense attorneys. There's lots of wiggle room here that the defense doesn't seem to want to acknowledge.
BREMNER: That's right. And I keep thinking to myself if in doubt of who's going to win -- be neutral. That's a saying that I always think about.
But you know, in looking at this, that's right. And these things can happen very quickly and when someone is getting raped in terms of time, who keeps track? This 30 minutes versus a shorter time.
The phone calls, you can dial your cell phone and not call anybody. I know with mine I have my BlackBerry. Sometimes it dials numbers without me.
BREMNER: But the other thing about it is these times could be wrong, but it could be a shorter period of time. So these attorneys are trying and protesting in some ways too much — publicly.
COLMES: A little bit.
Natasha, they're going after Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong and claiming that he's playing politics.
COLMES: He's been really quiet. They're the ones keeping putting stuff out there. They're the ones who keep saying and now they now believe they have an airtight case.
LAPINER-GIRESI: Well, he started it. He had about 70 statements when the first...
COLMES: He's been quiet.
LAPINER-GIRESI: He has been quiet now, but then he also made a statement, I believe, on the 8th, when all of the allegations came out about a prior allegation by the accuser.
COLMES: So he's supposed to sit there and be quiet while the defense attorney is poisoning the jury pool?
LAPINER-GIRESI: He can either — they're not poisoning the jury pool.
COLMES: Sure they are. How are they not?
LAPINER-GIRESI: Do you think the Black Panthers aren't poisoning the jury pool, too?
COLMES: Perhaps they are, too.
LAPINER-GIRESI: Hometown girl, she's the accuser?
COLMES: Absolutely. But aren't the defense attorneys doing the same thing?
LAPINER-GIRESI: Well, I think that they're protecting their clients, which they're supposed to do. If everybody had been quiet from the very first day, or at least negotiated.
I think the biggest problem here — I read in Newsweek that Seligmann's lawyer went to Nifong on the day of the indictment. And he wanted to talk to him. And Nifong said, "You said on TV he's innocent. I'm not going to talk to you."
The whole thing that supports our system of...
COLMES: Do you know whether she was raped or not?
LAPINER-GIRESI: I don't. But at least the district attorneys when I call them and say, "I want to talk to you about really revealing evidence I have," they go, "Come into my office. Let's talk about it." Nifong doesn't seem to be doing that.
SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Nifong is foolish.
Let's go to what we know, Ann Bremner, here. First of all, we have this woman saying 100 percent certain, 100 percent, Seligmann is a guy.
HANNITY: She — we have on record now — a neighbor identifying the time. We have time stamped photos. We have phone records that say — now remember, she came out of the house three minutes after she arrived.
HANNITY: He's calling his girlfriend multiple times between 12:07, 12:14. At 12:14 he calls the cab company. He's in the cab a block and a half away at 12:19. And there he is in the ATM machine and then later he's back in the dorm.
You've got to admit, based on what we know — the corroboration of the neighbor, corroboration of the cab company — this is an awful case for the prosecutor right now.
BREMNER: Well, but the thing is I was thinking of a very famous Black Panther, and that's Eldridge Cleaver. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem. I this case, you know, do we want to try this whole case in the media and have the media decide?
HANNITY: Tell that to Mr. Nifong, who made 70 statements before the defense had an obligation to come out and correct some of the things that he said, at least from their standpoint.
BREMNER: And that's the problem. That's exactly right. And the statement is for everybody. This case should be tried in a courtroom. Do we know if she was raped or not? That's up to a jury but there could be discrepancies, as I said before...
HANNITY: You've got to admit this evidence is not looking good for the prosecutor, is it?
BREMNER: It is a problem. But you know, the thing is...
HANNITY: A problem?
BREMNER: I'm keeping an open mind. I'm keeping an open mind. I know you are.
HANNITY: I'm keeping an open mind, too.
BREMNER: It's a problem, but it is not insurmountable. It is not insurmountable, because the times could be wrong on the technology, on the ATM machine...
HANNITY: Right, so...
BREMNER: And she could — you know, some guys can do this very quickly, a rape. And he could be part of this group and out of the room for awhile.
HANNITY: She said — wait a minute, Ann, she said 30 minutes. Natasha, she identified.
BREMNER: You know what, though?
HANNITY: Hang on, though, Ann. Hang on. She said 30 minutes.
LAPINER-GIRESI: Let's even save say it's less. Let's say it's 20. Let's say it's 15. Would a young man be calm enough after such a violent incident, choking her, holding her down and raping her, to get into a cab, sit in the cab, go to an ATM?
COLMES: It's more than one man, though. More than one man.
HANNITY: I have one last question. I have one last question. This is important. What does it mean that now they're admitting she had a nervous breakdown, they're admitting she had financial problems and they're admitting that she accused three other men of doing this some years ago? What does that mean in this case?
LAPINER-GIRESI: This all goes to her credibility. This should have been looked into my Nifong.
COLMES: Should they be destroying her character like this?
LAPINER-GIRESI: Well, you know, they're destroying these boys' characters, too. They were thrown out of school. One of them is being retried — actually, a case was reopened against him.
COLMES: We've got to run. I'm sure we'll pick it up again, Ann and Natasha. Thank you.
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