Religion, Morality and the Supreme Court

Published October 15, 2004

| FoxNews.com

This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," Oct. 14, 2004, that has been edited for clarity.

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ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: A page tonight from the Hannity & Colmes notebook.

The Federal Elections Commission has fined the Alan Keyes campaign, but it’s not his Senate campaign. It’s his long-abandoned 2002 presidential campaign. Apparently, the ambassador’s camp has admitted to accepting $168,000 worth of contributions over the individual campaign limit, which in 2000 was $1,000 per person.

We know what Keyes thinks about abortion and homosexuality. I guess we can add campaign finance reform to that list.

Meanwhile, the Supreme Court has agreed to hear two cases that raise the question of displaying the Ten Commandments (search) on public property, if it violates the First Amendment’s ban on the establishment of religion.

Joining us now is the author of the new "Strong-Willed Child," and the founder and chairman of Focus on the Family, Dr. James Dobson.

Dr. Dobson, thank you very much for being with us tonight.

DR. JAMES DOBSON, CHAIRMAN OF FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: Alan, good to be with you again.

COLMES: Thank you, sir.

Should all religions have the opportunity to have their symbols displayed publicly?

DOBSON: No. That’s a much broader interpretation than we’ve had in the past. There is an historic context to the Ten Commandments. And, you know, given this court’s 42-year history of being antagonistic to religion, we just have really no confidence at all that they’re going to do the right thing.

COLMES: Yes, but if they’re going to have the Ten Commandments, if that is the standard, should all religions have the same opportunity to have their symbols displayed?

DOBSON: Well, I think if local municipalities have drawn that conclusion and that’s what they want to do, I guess they can. It should be an expression of government of the people, by the people and for the people.

But the truth of the matter is that this culture is largely Judeo- Christian, and that has been its heritage. And that’s been the history. And to come along now and sandblast half the buildings in Washington doesn’t make any sense at all.

COLMES: All right, the point is though, what’s good for one has to be good for all. You can’t say only these particular religions get to have their symbols displayed.

In 1980, the last time the Supreme Court (search) ruled on this, what it did was, I’m sure you’re familiar with this, struck down the Kentucky law requiring the posting of the Ten Commandments. Do you agree with that decision, or should there be a requirement that the Ten Commandments be posted in school?

DOBSON: I certainly do not agree with that. Seventy-two percent of the American people disagree with that decision.

And again, this goes all the way back to 1962, when the court began this hostility to religion, removing prayer in schools. The next year it was bible reading in schools. And then it was prayer at graduation ceremonies. And then it was the Ten Commandments. And from there to the Pledge of Allegiance.

It has been a consistent pattern. And we’re going to see it again, I’m afraid.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Yes, and you know, you could see a correlation — and, by the way, good to see you, Dr. Dobson — with the decline of values in society with a lot of these court decisions. And I don’t think it’s by accident, by the way.

But I’ve got to compliment you. The "New Strong-Willed Child," — I’ve finished it now — it’s an excellent book. I got a lot of advice. You know, I’m raising two kids. But they’re not that strong-willed like their dad, which is a good thing. They’ve got all their mother’s good qualities. It’s a great book.

DOBSON: I appreciate your comment, Sean.

HANNITY: Hey, I want to ask you, before I get back into this issue, I really wanted to get your take on the issue we were talking about in the last segment about what was said by John Kerry about the Cheneys’ daughter.

DOBSON: Yes.

HANNITY: And the issue of homosexuality.

DOBSON: Right. There was something that Senator Kerry said that bothers me even more than outing Vice President Cheney’s daughter, which I thought was terrible. It wasn’t fair. It was an invasion of her privacy. I don’t even know if she’s outed herself.

But what bothered me more was the assertion, which nobody challenged, that she was born that way. And there is absolutely no scientific evidence for that. There is no evidence. Even gay activists in the scientific community don’t claim that. There is no gay gene.

It comes from early developmental confusion, sexuality identity problems, early on. It’s not chosen, but it is also not genetic. And I wish somebody would make that case. I guess I just did.

HANNITY: What did you think of the president’s answer then on that? Because I thought the president gave a pretty thoughtful answer.

DOBSON: I thought it was good. It wasn’t complete. He said he didn’t know. And you wouldn’t expect the president of the United States to be up on the literature on that subject. But I thought that, generally speaking, the president did a fine job last night, especially on the social issues.

HANNITY: Well, let’s talk — do you think they’re front and center enough in this campaign, for your liking? Because you have a huge, massive radio audience and television audience and people love you. And every time you’re on, you know, your fans, they appreciate the fact that you’re on the program.

I mean, do they feel that there’s enough emphasis — obviously, Iraq and the war on terror is such a dominating issue now. Do they feel that these social issues — as I care about them as well as you do — but do you think there’s enough emphasis on them in this election?

DOBSON: I absolutely do not. I mean, Iraq is important. We’ve got troops there. We need to be praying for them. We need to be concerned about them.

But it’s as though it’s the only issue. I tell you what concerns me most is that the next president is going to be able to choose between two and four Supreme Court justices, and given the power of this imperious, unelected, unaccountable court, it is a major concern.

Sean, let me...

COLMES: I’ll tell you what, Dr. Dobson. We’ve got to take a quick break. So let’s get to that point as soon as we get back.

DOBSON: OK.

COLMES: We continue with Dr. Dobson on the other side.

Later on, we’re going to hit the campaign trail to tell you about a big shootout in the Rocky Mountain State.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: And another page tonight from the Hannity & Colmes notebook.

The Guardian of London newspaper, urging their readers to contact residents of Clark County, Ohio, to share their thoughts about the presidential race. Now, considering that poll by the paper shows that 47 percent of Brits favor Senator Kerry and only 16 percent back President Bush. Well, the only person here, well, that could sort of help in this. Anyway, go figure. I always thought that Kerry’s overseas support would come from the French, anyway.

We continue now with our good friend, Dr. James Dobson.

What most concerns you, Dr. Dobson, about John Kerry (search)?

DOBSON: I started to say before the break, Sean, I wanted to give you something to think about in the midnight hours, because I woke up this morning at 4:00 in the morning thinking about this.

Let’s suppose that John Kerry squeaks out a victory. And then, he’s able to make two to four Supreme Court appointees. And Senator Clinton looks at that situation, and she sees the possibility of eight years of waiting, and she’ll be eight years older. And anything could happen in eight years.

And President Kerry then appoints her as chief justice of the Supreme Court. And she would have the opportunity to virtually rewrite the Constitution with the rest of her life. That keeps me up at night.

HANNITY: Dr. Dobson, you’re trying to scare — you’re trying to do what they’re — you’re trying to play the draft card. Because that’s what they do. They use scare politics. That is a chilling scenario.

DOBSON: That scares me. I’ll tell you.

HANNITY: Yes, I’ll tell you. Look, I don’t have anything personal against John Kerry. But he has shown he is weak — has been his entire career — on defense issues, intelligence issues, has been on the wrong side of history in confronting evil in his time.

It doesn’t make him a bad person. I question his judgment. He doesn’t understand what we are up against and he doesn’t share the moral values that I have. And it’s not anymore personal than that.

DOBSON: Well, I agree with that. There are millions of people out there who are not bad people that you wouldn’t want in the White House.

HANNITY: I agree.

DOBSON: He’s wrong on marriage. He’s wrong on the sanctity of life. He’s wrong on sovereignty. He’s wrong on the military. He’s wrong the United Nations. He’s wrong on all those things.

COLMES: Dr. Dobson, can I...

DOBSON: And I just pray that he won’t be in the White House.

COLMES: I think you’re wrong on Kerry.

But, in any event, listen. I want to get back to Mary Cheney for a second.

She was not outed by John Kerry. She worked as a gay liaison to the gay community for Coors beer before she joined the Cheney campaign. The vice president has spoken about her being gay. She was not outed. This was not some kind of secret way to reveal her sexual identity. That’s not, sir, what happened.

DOBSON: Well, Alan, I heard that on Rush Limbaugh today, and I very well may be wrong, because I don’t have the facts, and I certainly don’t know either one of them personally.

I still do not think it is right to spotlight a family member like that. I wouldn’t want my kids spotlighted if I were running for president, especially if there was some aspect of their lives that was highly personal and could have been embarrassing.

And the question is why? Why did Senator Kerry do this? I mean, he could have named so many other people who are well known in the public life for being homosexuals, as well as the other things that they stand for.

(CROSSTALK)

COLMES: But it probably wouldn’t have come up had that question not been asked by Bob Schieffer.

But let me ask, what’s embarrassing about it? Why is it embarrassing, or why is it negative? It is the way some people are. Why should we be embarrassed about it?

DOBSON: Ask Mrs. Cheney how she feels about that. I mean, they didn’t like it. They don’t want their kids spotlighted like that in a way that kind of singles them out.

I thought it was a cheap shot. I thought it was designed to kind of separate president...

HANNITY: For political points.

DOBSON: ... yes.

HANNITY: And the parents don’t want to spotlight it, and their view ought to be respected.

Dr. Dobson, the "New Strong-Willed Child." It’s a great book. And thanks for being back on the program. It’s always good to see you.

DOBSON: I love being on with you guys.

HANNITY: We love having you.

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