This is a partial transcript from On the Record with Greta Van Susteren, October 20, 2003.
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GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Our next guest is a best-selling author whose latest book, Persecution: How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity, is number nine on The New York Times bestseller list. Syndicated columnist and attorney David Limbaugh joins us from St. Louis. He's also a friend of mine.
David, welcome. Let's talk a little bit about...
DAVID LIMBAUGH, AUTHOR, PERSECUTION: HOW LIBERALS ARE WAGING WAR AGAINST CHRISTIANITY: Tony, how are you?
SNOW: I'm doing fine.
Let's talk about two different ways in which Christianity is under siege. Number one, from the courts.
LIMBAUGH: Yes. The courts have applied an expansive interpretation of the establishment clause, which was originally intended just to prohibit Congress from establishing a national religion to the -- to effecting a complete separation of church and state so that they won't allow the government to be involved with religion at all. But what happens is they selectively apply it and discriminate against Christians alone and prevent government from endorsing or being involved with Christianity.
Millions of examples. Let me give you one that's just ridiculous. A speaker that gave motivational talks, anti-drug talks at high schools, gave some 200 speeches, was invited to speak at a high school, and, when the high school found out that he was a Christian, even though he never invoked Christianity in his speeches, it withdrew the invitation.
So the establishment clause has been interpreted to the point of precluding the free exercise of religion. It suppresses religious liberty for Christians.
SNOW: One of the things -- and I know you've gotten e-mails to this effect many times -- people keep saying, look, there is nowhere to be found the phrase in the Constitution the phrase "separation between church and state." As a matter of fact, that was something that appeared in private correspondence between Thomas Jefferson and an Episcopal bishop?
LIMBAUGH; Yes, I think it was the Danbury Baptists (search). And, later, it was incorporated by Justice Hugo Black of the United States Supreme Court in the case of Everson v. Board of Education in (search) 1947, and, from that point on, the courts have interpreted the establishment clause literally to attempt to effect that pretty strict separation of church and state, when the framers never intended that at all.
SNOW: OK. Let's talk about another way that Christianity is under assault, and that's from the bottom up. That is through culture. Describe that.
LIMBAUGH: Yes. I mean I don't think this -- the Supreme Court cases could happen in a vacuum, but the culture is affecting -- the secular humanists, I think, are affecting a climate in this country that makes those kind of rulings a natural outflowing.
For example, the culture -- the homosexual lobby has even effected private corporations to require mandatory sensitivity training. The private corporation (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which is one of three corporations which produces top-secret weapons for the United States government, shut down its plant for two days to allow its employees to take sensitivity training.
But, you know, this culture war that's going on is not something that Christians -- Christians do not want to impose their will on the rest of society. They just want their right to freely exercise their religion and free speech.
You know, the fact that these people won't let them, the fact that the counterculture has attained dominance and said they cannot speak -- they cannot speak in religious terms is because it's -- because they are being intolerant -- it's really constituted a suppression of their religious rights.
SNOW: And in your book, you talk about the fact that the founders believe that virtue is essential for liberty, and that, in itself, you believe is under assault?
LIMBAUGH: Oh, yes. I mean I -- the foundation of this country was the Judeo-Christian ethic, and I believe literally it is foundational to our liberties and it is slowly being etched away, and, if we lose that foundation, eventually, our liberties will implode.
Now we can piggyback on to that freedom tradition for a few generations, but, eventually, it's going to fall by the wayside. You know, John Adams said the Constitution was made only for moral and religious people, and what he meant by that was not that Christians were not sinners but that you couldn't abandon the standards of absolute right and wrong just because we were sinners.
And, once you did abandon the standards because we couldn't live up to them, then, eventually, moral relativism supplants absolutes and you have nothing anymore upon which to build this foundation of freedom.
SNOW: All right. David Limbaugh, thanks for joining us.
Again, David's latest book is Persecution: How Liberals Are...
LIMBAUGH: Thank you.
SNOW: ... Waging War Against Christianity.
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