Brain of a Killer

" Understand your former army psychologist psychiatrist so. What will it wouldn't that job entail island and then take what you learned in that job in and what you're doing now your clinic."

" I was trained at Walter aid. Just like major has time. I trained in the early eighties. I was also enlisted soldier before that. I'm an Arab American and I was the chief of a place called Fort Irwin in the Mojave Desert after I finished my brain. And I got out of the military in 1989 and subsequently. I have -- clinics around the country where we do brain imaging war. Four psychiatric patient."

" And we have -- that's that's my specialty we -- brain imaging. We've scanned about 200."

" Convicted violent felons along with about 75 murderers including a couple of mass -- And well we find is they have a different -- people don't do this. Obviously. Want."

" I wanna get back to this four factors that you look -- that's really interesting the first what did you make of this news last. There or."

" I was horrified by -- I -- have another psychiatrist and others feel our health. Kara provider -- do something like this it's just horrendous from my first thought was he was suicidal. And he was gonna decide just like suicide bombers so wouldn't surprise me at all if he had contacts -- Al-Qaeda or with other terrorist group. He was suicidal and he was gonna take out a lot of people with him."

" And he was about to go abroad did you did you ever work out in the field. With some of the soldiers like. --"

" I -- I stationed in -- was -- In Germany my first professional paper was about post Vietnam stress disorder. And how people who gad PT SB. Often go into the military with significant stress or prior. Traumatic events in our life and then when they experienced the trauma there the most vulnerable. Of the group. But you have. Psychiatrist when we're listening. Day in and day out to people who who have. Horrific events we can get something called compassion -- Where is it really starts to strap your own own brand. And unfortunately many psychiatrists especially in the military don't reach out to get help for themselves. And that stress can just build and build and build over time. Physicians in general have the highest incidence of suicide. Of all professions. And in large part it's because we are healers we don't see ourselves that is good patient."

" yeah I think everyone should be in therapy. So get back to your brain scan. -- what any fourth factor that you look for and and is this something that you would use on and you know -- on."

" Absolutely I'm Diane defeated -- the -- looks like you know most of these guys never left. So we don't -- A good sense as to why they do it they do we had the opportunity. Fifty kip kinkle scat camp was that fifteen year old boy and Springfield Oregon who killed his mom and dad. And then he went to Thurston high school and shot 25 people. Most of those school -- then go on and kill themselves or they get killed."

" Bad camp led through that and what we saw -- his brain was a very. Damaged. Brain where he had problems and in a couple of major areas in his brain involved an impulse control and violence. So you know I when I heard about this. With major has time I'm thinking he's got from a -- problems where he lacks. Perhaps empathy. And and I had seen about fifteen people who have -- tumors in there Brian. That then get these awful violent. Thoughts in their head so that's going to be hard is. Defends his defense attorney should be god we have to scan this guy's black and to see. If they're abnormalities doesn't mean that -- but it would certainly be one of the things I would hunt down."

" Yeah I got -- it said bill -- Question -- present -- having worked in you know law enforcement and then out of private sector that mostly dealing with with people who have sometimes -- have problems with -- there. So they could committing crimes are committing crimes against their country. Or their sometimes threatening other you know employees and and folks workplace. When you tell you about. Areas of the brain that are damaged are you talking about organic damage are you talking about just not functioning properly talking about shifting of the wave of the brain functions that -- more. Operational one sign in that area is doesn't have. More -- going to it I'm not too sure what you mean by damaged."

" What we do a study colts back SPE CT it looks and blood flow and activity pattern. So it basically tells us three things areas of the brain that work well. Areas of the -- that are low in activity in areas of the brain that are high -- activity. So it could be actual physical damage from a tumor from assessed from a stroke to certain areas of your brain. That then makes you more vulnerable. To damage. It could be from a traumatic brain injury. It also could be areas of the brain that work too hard. So they have it excessive blood flow due didn't our transmit -- abnormalities. And these people can be. Obsessive. Winds did things don't go their way they get it's that. And and I actually think many people who are terrorists or who are racists. I mean and -- fight them brain illnesses and it if you can balance their brain may become more reasonable."

" what I'm also on the panel bill asked the exact question that I wanted to ask in terms of causes but what you just left on back to that question. Are these things curable. You know I I if they're detectable -- evidence things to look for that if you can catch someone before they do something horrific farm or perhaps even after. Is is their -- their way to fix what's wrong in the brain. Well that's that's."

" Most exciting thing I've been involved with in my career -- wrote a book called changed your brain change your life. And we have -- Manny. -- violent people either involved in domestic violence or workplace violence -- Violence it at school home and on them right treatment. Which could be -- nutritional supplements certain forms. -- even psychotherapy can change your brain on the right treatment you can. Often. Rehabilitate these people -- fascinating study the I don't Washington State. Where -- judge started screaming people who and it entered his courtroom or convicted of a crime -- screen them. For things like KDD and learning disability. And when they work -- we're mediate them they cut down recidivism. From 78%. Which is where it is nationwide to 29%. One. And for every dollar they spend time the program they save the state -- Washington sap."

" In -- It's might be a dangerous question but how predictive. That the did the brain imaging test that you run I mean can you speak to that all I know -- be treading in sort of odd territory but. From the statistics that you've been looking at -- to be considered a predictive. Signs."

" Well with what they really tell us is what you are vulnerability. Code to violence so we -- Major his side pods are we didn't get shot had we could see what was going on in his Brian. He would have a brain that's vulnerable to violence and then. Usually not always which is really important to talk to the talk about that usually if you then stack stresses and we know that he had. A number. Stacked the stresses. Going to be deployed didn't want to be didn't want to be in the military was an attack. If you look at those glasses. It takes a brain that is vulnerable. To violence and then can trigger -- exploded where most people who have a healthy brain. You know you give them those same stresses and they don't react in a bad in in a violent way. Right it's it is now sometimes and and this is very important I think. Sometimes if you have a sense or a tumor stroke in certain areas of your brain -- not have. Any stresses. And still go bizarre. I open. In my book change your brain change like that the story have been nine year old who attacks a little girl on the baseball field. -- no particular reason out of the blue raised in a kind of loving home. And when I scan them -- He had assess the size of a golf ball occupying the space where his temporal -- should be on the left side. And another boy he had another since the size of the tennis -- and when I met him he wanted to cut his mother up into little pieces. I -- is just morale effect and then I I saw this system I went we have to take that out because. It if you have that kind of -- on your brain there's no way you're acting normal."

" We -- said they do have time for a quick question. It. What it then makes sense and I guess -- sort of brings it around to the health care debate we've been engaged in wooded. Help if this was a part of a regular. Health check for people getting a brain -- including -- going to get you get your temperature take in your your blood pressure taken you get a brain scan."

" Well I think -- but we're still wear a long way away from that alcohol. Managed care and health care reform there. Sort of and and that's a shame because if it's your brain that controls everything you do how you think. How you feel how I act -- you get along with other people and when your brain works right you work right. And when your brain has probably you have serious trouble in in your life -- in -- no matter how this thing shakes out I I'm sure. -- that major has signed had. Some pretty serious brain trouble."

" And -- we're just getting word that major thought it is awake and talking with staff there at the hospital so. What would your next step be do you work with. Police the government military. Says -- approach then try to see you can scan his brain -- how how does that work."

" Well hopefully his defense --"

" when they put on his defense is going to think about this and and you know I'm not drop off all contact them but they may contact us because of our our work in this field. And to. He definitely needs to be stand was so we can understand. And and make some sense out of out of what happened that it should be part of vigorous defense. Which he's entitled to."

" And I bet I have one question one final question for me and as what would you -- the end of year you're testing your studies. That this would lead to what what is the ultimate he has you know. Goal of being able to understand this is great kind of retrospectively understanding what may be many people do that or find out -- organic problems such as tumors. That led people to it that. But at the end of the study and and perhaps. You know -- posted the brain scan what do you hope to accomplish and can that get to -- Mike's point -- more preventative."

" Well that's what that's what we are trying to do is really try to understand behavior. And optimize behavior want -- things I found is that when I improve your brain you become more thoughtful you become. More loving you become more effective. In your life and we still active in our country as if we're living in -- seventeen century. Separating. The mind from from the brain and when people do bad things not always I mean people can just choose to do bad things. Lead but more often than not in my experience their brains not right and when you -- that. You increase there are effectiveness overall."

" Well doctor and then thank you so much for coming on an and we can all read about change your brain change your life. Thanks so much for having -- have a good day out there."