Gadgets and Games: 10/23

" Reggie never know what you're gonna get hey everyone welcome it is Friday afternoon I'm Clayton Morris is is gadgets and games here on strategy room. We've got a lot to talk about today of course sent out a little earlier today we're going to be diving deep today on windows seven. -- your email questions for us now will be taking those also your Twitter questions Claymores on Twitter anything that we're talking about the does that make sense to you please dial in about windows seven are you planning upgrade don't throw that out there now. You can -- chime in with your experiences and maybe your went out and -- windows seven -- didn't buy the student edition. Because we're already hearing some problems according again today this afternoon all right let's dive into our guests -- to my right is lands you'll off you don't you love him he's the editor of chief of PC mag dot com. Going through a little bit of a refresh. Yeah site redesign new look and that its data were actually in beta form right now for lots of stuff this kind of -- but in you do in the Google approach you're opening it up you've allowed people you want -- input through the whole process. Go to cnn.com check out help and it still scholars. Criticized yeah. From that. -- ways to his right is an adjustment of policy of course he's the editor in chief of engadget dot com playing with his -- had a history -- these had a very complicated -- yeah again you can't get you cannot -- furniture grade with gadgets that -- assessment thing and we've got another -- your background your last name is what Russian against the young -- that's right okay because to your right we have -- to the show Nicholas coal accounts -- technology writer for. Nick Nicholas -- policy where you was it like it was a -- feuding families do."

" He's from also have a very early on his right now we've got the slick little danger of her yet. Oh that's perfect Waterford completely all -- so yeah. I hope nothing happens on the ship will probably a bit about that I but doesn't on -- threatening will be playing on Mac versus PC at the very least that's true and we did you cling to that -- If I believe definitely is he like to tell of course he's an editor engadget dot com nice to see in the -- Tallahassee -- your personal thousands IPO last time you order -- free from somewhere -- the -- I think. I just nobody -- I had -- want to listen we we've got a great panel today we."

" Got a lot of great actors who got a lot to talk about let's died in right now start talking about windows seven. It was just scratched the surface of the before we get into some of the -- operating system points here. General feeling about this we've been building up to -- over the past couple months. All I seem to be saying everyone seemed to be saying. Good operating system it's one Vista. Should have -- and -- we surprised by anything yesterday at the launch."

" Outraged that Manhattan beta is that RC one was out. That really satisfaction goes out I mean we've essentially had this product -- for a long time was in a surprise me is how companies like. HP and Sony managed to knock it out from the pre installed right and it -- bunch of crap where right rabbit I just Sony here so I'm gonna fire the subway years. Talking Joshua about his views on others as the nicest yards right minded person out -- my thinking this is going to fly home but -- anything wrong with -- catch right half a hundred -- a lot of my a lot of people give you trouble for but I think it's great. So this. You know I said I know they have to do the launch it wears tight tightness in the -- there's yesterday that thought. Do they really need do the when -- launch for seven I mean they'd already gone through so many could be so much. Sort of pre launch stop standard you know we had it with the reviews are out. -- That's not a norm and you can't do I'm just looking into the interface here and it looks a lot like Vista the little --"

" This is really is is this is this -- to you know this. This but I don't forget we have our eye on the back matters is it's admitting -- Vista they weren't like million dollars were promised to let's throw an -- start over. They say hate Vista stinks let's let's actually get this thing fixed rename might get people excited about the -- again. You know and they did they actually got a lot of the stuff people griped about fixed in seven which is why people it's ahead but this is good."

" And if -- a lot of computers -- yesterday anything is stuck out to you if you're looking at the interface on their running on different machines because they had this whole cavalcade of machines in this area that Steve ball or walk through and showed off -- is getting has said. Product description about the different experiences you can have multi touch anything -- stood out to you."

" What was addressed to me is kind of how much Microsoft has really emphasizing in this release kind of the touch screen kind of capabilities and how many devices -- on display. Had some sort of touch screen functionality kind of built into them -- A lot of the Microsoft reps at the event were very much all over showing off like you know -- you could -- star button. You know windows -- flash up you can manipulate all sorts of you know files in libraries and -- And it seemed a little bit odd to me because Justin turned -- in both. Touch screen traditionally has been one of those areas that belonged to kind of -- segmented. Business communities like physicians use their concerns have engineers -- but it didn't really seem like there's been this kind of popular outcry. You know among consumers particularly for a device that you know they can touch the screen and -- pop -- where."

" They had was alleged to count the -- all -- evidently I had. That's for and that may contribute to some of them do some -- the push forward showing office touched me and I was but I agree. I don't just see people I mean our readers I don't see a big. Outpouring of affection for touch screen laptop what people really need them or want he's gonna talk hardware is because hardware sucks not at all and I. That Lenovo has a T 400 asked Avaya multi touch -- things on -- greatest thing. The -- main reason the iPhone is a success the reason people think right hander is this test as a software is built around touch right right and windows seven it has an office of support. But the software itself is kind of not it's built and -- stylus and fundamentally -- it's not oh really rich. Right into my -- like AG will be tough smart which is like their own software stack on top -- did you find that touch smart and he. Touch you we we can show the -- touch it featured a moment but that experience. --"

" Now all season and -- it's very -- and you brought up HP touch money had been talking and I talked to Toshiba and Lenovo about this because we're going reversing a trend. All of these manufacturers are putting out special on -- on these touch screen app desktops and laptops. Because they want to utilize that environments. If you remember way back. This is something is really popular with windows putting your own sort of interface on it manufactures and it's obligated."

" It is one of my favorite features that touch screen the multi touch I think using an X 200 them -- almost four weeks now. I use it yeah I just sometimes I want to show people something I've wanted diving and -- just touching around or manipulating things but you're right."

" Are -- in the -- of games and the -- of applications to really take advantage of that."

" Not yet but isn't that what we always see with -- software products and we were told with Vista that yes once developers -- utilizing what we put out here in this experience in this environment. And hardware side you're gonna love this but that was what we were promised right at the -- the launch of Vista and that's never -- that completely untrue. There are some of that beyond okay yesterday the wonderful surprise this -- surprise -- the event with the Amazon Kindle for the PC. An application that takes perfect advantage of the touch screen immediately didn't do enough yet but it's also -- I can't quite -- aren't."

" I'll multimedia experiences with in the -- but it allows you to work with about with the readings -- with gestures if you want on it happily."

" Let's actually have some video that hopefully we got -- sent to laid out you guys we do. Yeah yeah. -- go ahead and roll this this is what -- suit with my iPhone here. Right so. You know I'm used to it support to. And again I'm wondering why you because you're hitting it it's not necessarily funny exactly where your fingers pointing -- finding out I mean I found as I'm trying to zero in on a specific area. That was interesting you know able to died in deeper on the content but here again boom boom is -- resistance."

" Not All-Star has if I'm here I'm laughing and then there -- all the multi screen -- capacity and they also digitize in the combining all of the technologies so common almost none of them have -- I think that's probably for the best. -- Time something like that's a smart way you have to you can reach out and called for alarms alligator arms -- you have to like your basically operating like this -- here. I don't know how anybody want to do that if you can flip it around and answer if you use it in -- traditional tablet style play I think that makes a lot more sense for touch I think when you're looking -- a laptop like this. And year I'm I don't see how they can prove anything hovered there and watch the -- and let us use you know it's gonna turn your life that type --"

" I wish you would want to be able to have that he. It is being that shouldn't -- it's a natural. Natural thing for -- needed to -- touched me back and that we look at anybody's laptop will find fingerprints on the screen -- You'll you'll find. Hundreds of comprehend. Plus why typically. And is there."

" desktop. I think you have always will have to have the keyboard and -- to back up in the the -- situations when you singing contest not."

" Smart I was using and that's kind typing and then I would be I want to show someone a bunch of different screens so I was just -- going through -- I was moving intelligent removing and that was really natural some."

" What else. I get my -- and was."

" And it's I think that."

" I have to say that next year."

" If we have this conversation mixture I think we're gonna find a lot more people even more excited about touch interfaces and they are right now -- because the other products coming up in the driving people up plus I think there -- the uses -- already system to me this is justice really just start and it hasn't been. There hasn't -- I mean obviously Microsoft has -- has always been about pen input. There hasn't been a lot of emphasis on. Getting us just a kind of typical consumer laptop with touch input on it -- and into your point and -- exactly it was taking unique mean. That's that's the problem I have with -- I would like to be able to show people that."

" It reminds me a little bit the one thing that struck me. In terms of kind of playing through the Kindle happened -- how much kind of the functionality mirrored. What Barnes & Noble had talked out the window could come -- this before in terms. The transferring of bookmarks and notations and so on like from device device right. And functional that I -- obviously you know Amazon and Microsoft are you know developing this a long time before Barnes & Noble -- and made their announcement but it's. Its interest in the -- just kind of taken a macro perspective kind of however things. It's kind of progressing. In that sense -- and certainly a lot more."

" I mean people are starting to think about computing and in more human terms you know I'm -- yeah yeah. Depends -- you're under media when your junior guerrilla arms impression explain that again that is -- true right so well that helps uses Fatah which doesn't -- but upon -- using laptop I don't wanna be reaching out like this all the time and yeah this is gorillas is. What -- your laptop closer."

" I'm here I mean this is a comfortable distance and -- Doing this frank senator's time has not given him an amazing experience I do you think there has to be mean. -- I mean they've developed essentially settings that -- double tap on the screen and it's like you can change the brightness. You can change the volume and that's what Lenovo thinks the killer app for touches right now on -- on product. That's like what else union. This when a seven touchback is good but again it's all kind of like gimmick yes right. It's like not doing -- scaling and moving photos over and over in the."

" Developed 85000. Apps for a device that has fewer components than the PC like the iPhone they think might our -- to. They like they figured out what to do that if you add touch to all of these laptops and desktops and multi touch. And you eventually and excel -- there which will have do have -- town was turned into China on its they're going to -- well hello. The whole paradigm of of the -- on interaction is based around touch you start from touch basically an NHL are let's try to make a device I mean and I think part of -- successes. Let's try to make -- device is built around. -- While remaining keyboard that's the the touch screen keyboard right exactly -- you're coming back -- to get a call here -- I'm not I'm not knocking India I think there's going to be some great uses for it. Especially now as being really push right. But I feel like they didn't -- a -- is. Figuring out how it fits into of a platform it's built from the ground up. They surround icons -- and you can drive adds a great point is that you."

" with likely a -- Touch. Tablet. That we saw at CES and then we saw recently rolled out finally and I had a beta unit that is still around my office but you you you pick up the screen spinning around. But they they built their touch interface on whittled down version of XP. And then they built into sort of a widget platform -- hop back and forth now between the XP interface to this. Larger icon. Sort of fun here's a post it note I can pull out and we tested -- did you like these Maryann well I mean it. It was it was interest in I didn't see myself being able to use it but again the same problem I had with what lance was talking about -- I want to show somebody something its sluggish. Not -- quickly pull up things. I felt like I would get I would just do more much more easily by using the keyboard."

" Well that's I mean that's the other thing is it's speed. And the performance of the touch. Touch input and the speed this -- in the Iran and what can screen you've got through it all the right components in place I think you have pretty good experience on what was Jersey nets on -- and I got it was really awful I close total -- total -- I mean didn't he didn't did you do need to use a computer and that actually he was a case -- was resistant -- that they -- this team and I want yeah. And just total. As you know is flash is nothing you know I mean flash in the sense that -- was just there for show and I don't think there's any real utility got to leave a note from my dad came down on a bill on -- you know on a yellow post it note and in what case would you have believed to have that on -- computer. That's a question you. A guy like you flip it open -- I hate data without curb the militants -- that a lot of -- and undoubtedly have to. Sometimes you just wanders around yeah. I don't foreign you have I think that's a good example legitimately have a notepad -- staking out right move for yourself. I I can't -- keep thinking what and again it."

" The way I would use that would be in class right I would be. You know it and of course in college entity taking notes easily the young Clayton -- then -- back to -- okay that's -- I have a -- and I'd be writing but then I'd be sluggish and it wouldn't actually be able to get my notes and the -- moving on I'm sitting -- worried that I just wrote something that didn't catch up and -- I'm worried -- erase something by accident so until the hardware a year from now gets to the point at which we can all be happy with -- The -- about cutting into that product mean that the stylist taking notes in class tablet. That is existed and been done extremely well in the past -- that you might want is just really cheap and all -- and Ron Paul Larry. He hasn't -- the okay about it yeah yeah. -- I 299 dollars and I had netted three was the item a frozen foods uniting the BC news at the apple tablet PC -- little of the hospital. Yeah. How is not a big plus how many -- not I don't know that you enjoy what I love is this. There -- now like different camps on the apple tablet when you bring it up -- if you get the -- rolls or you get -- out and there's two different camps now because asserted as late this low rumbling rumor. And then people -- now he would just get angry about what he doesn't even exist."

" I was like -- went three for year five -- four years ago this rumor has been around forever now just like really picked as religious and now we hear from a number of analysts that early 30 dollars a gallon yeah okay it's going to be a horizon when I don't know anything they honing anti apple -- I mean I'm not how -- a lot of great really great really smart analysts that there are some analysts. That -- just. Really and let's just knew I had an idea that every industry and making things up -- lying they're not telling the truth and -- some of these stories you hear are just. Completely inaccurate -- only -- segment today gives -- a show called rumor roundup it's where we get to literally. Throw out any journalistic integrity and the only place best okay we're gonna play I didn't come crawling and he."

" I'm -- it that -- at the end of today's show we're gonna talk about the mystery near -- story. From apple. They knew exactly it's like everything up on that yes it is really. That I got a lot of video right now normal -- mystery -- apple and read the story. Would ultimately what I really easy to recap you haven't had accidentally somehow this windows seven and always a little bit later so let's -- we got a couple of questions on your pawns. Upgrading. This is -- I wanted to die a little bit more now to actual. Upgrading issues because that's hold another aside this any significant blog Arizona writes any significant issues upgrade windows seven XP. Professional version which is upgrading from Vista. How is hard work."

" Clear upgrade path. And queen relatively clear upgrade path between Vista and windows seven there is no -- Yeah so there is no point a to point -- line between XP which is assets. He was mistaken you actually asked to explain this -- everybody freaking out."

" Obviously yeah please would you do if you have this stuff home edition. It's easy upgrade to -- out by windows seven home additions and upgrades but it depends on in my -- you are right here right -- yeah yeah. He's got yeah -- an -- strengthened with a security vulnerabilities but now if you've got a student -- version. Windows Vista and you want to upgrade to. Windows seven alternate. It's not gonna happen easily you've got to make sure that your apps are backed up."

" You gonna pull stuff off. And XP's a whole another -- he is there is no. They're okay there's no in -- you know always upgrade leopard out that you basically as a supplement I've got Microsoft you've you've baca now it's been saying we can't. We do we don't have figured this out -- you -- I don't understand how on earth and everything else are completely and that's a good candidate of his it was a -- and -- and we we thought we sat down bomber yesterday for an interview and he said. You know it was tough getting from Vista 27. -- are getting from XP to Vista. And it's basically all but impossible to get from -- She's of the so the advice then is a clean install so evacuees out -- back of your life and install a game -- that's the basic process you are right to exist -- any doubt about that. Yeah pretty did it I didn't I did the whole process than anybody else is -- WE -- as a an upgrade story go to PC mag dot com read his personal upgrade story did you."

" All of a success. -- it was a success but it was it was one of those situations where I had to make a choice I was running I was on this stuff but I was running Vista 32 bit home. Of premium okay I was going to upgrade to -- a seven ultimate."

" And then I made the decision I should -- 64 bit -- at that point I'm making a break and anybody. All those things you talked about there are only a handful of."

" True perfect clean upgrade path when you get to install -- off to rip your stuff kind of changes -- to get your -- that your documents backed up."

" All of that is fine. But that's limited so for me."

" I had to back everything up and I had been backed -- previously but I believe that every single thing up and I've basically wipe the system with went with Microsoft's help."

" It worked but the weird thing is all the things I was surprised about some kind of to call myself and did actually save it."

" All of -- up those files cannot file not just I mean all the structure of the folder structure my photos my videos. Application for a minute why -- it did -- that we did then find the photos and now they're great -- okay yeah okay. I didn't know I mean the end result yes -- success but I didn't know why so much of my hard drive was gone. Unlike wells -- little -- hey if any you know. It is your whole system -- in a folder somewhere without saying that directory structure as we partition but anyway but the way it doesn't look into other partitions to tell you it it does. If you furious -- tonight there by the way it is okay. That's what the average person cannot know what you did the thing that thing is what they won't be able do what they'll run into the palms of money into this. If they have a lot of stuff stored and made it happen to look at their hard drive space that might wonder where it all went and that is a problem Microsoft still listen good done a good job of handling systems -- really big hard drives which will always have part you know partitions. Different drive letters. They have not done a good job of telling you where to put my documents still."

" I wish they would get this right they don't ask you thought he didn't tell me where to put your document."

" Would you say is ME hearing you know -- the Microsoft help you with us like some -- are some now I don't know I mean that Microsoft -- you with their bottom right okay that is that prize I think that's in his in his hearing this description of what's happening and you know look. I I understand they need to get to seven and a -- to make a break down I'm all loving embrace but I will say that for your average. You're using that stuck with XP and there are a lot of use this stuff -- I think 80% well I mean how. How many you know Microsoft -- basis and that's right take some of the doctorate in business bombers -- 18% -- they'll say they'll argue though say. We have you know every computer that -- that you his ship -- over the last three years that ship doesn't simply because. Okay that's what I right right well and there's still updating XP on their old system that you had to presume that there infrastructure -- right now that's right so and so this -- thing is that. It's it's just -- you know again. Couple complicated. Situation for a user of XP."

" And I want to highlight that now with some ads and then we'll come back and answer that question before NB -- my house of that myself -- computers. Preloaded with XP but yesterday right that's right right -- I thought hey yeah my boss just bought a computer last week -- And yes it might get it they told me I could buy it I get a free upgrade now what should -- at our. You need to go home and look at what this -- that you have the home edition wouldn't just do you have that you bought with this. -- such -- to -- you know you need to make -- by then the or go in and ask for the -- version of windows seven that you have -- operating system right now. -- do -- show. Today to add to this headache apple this week ruled. This ad I hope we have -- add that -- Kevin who's ever in the Booth -- can keep track -- victories three yeah. Well -- well have a one medical that was the funniest jealous -- this is the Mac versus PC Apalachicola. Yes."

" Hello I'm a -- I PC and Mac did you hear that couldn't produce haven't and it's not -- many of the problems my last -- consistent had to trust me. Through this for PC group. Windows -- here as I don't have any of the problems of windows XP at second and many of the problems of windows ME and I don't have any of the problems in windows 98 -- Not gonna have any of the problems windows 95 it's not gonna have any of the problems windows to -- This -- it's going to be different. --"

" I I think. First up I actually feel like these that come off as pretty mean spirited in a way that's not really that funny I but I just -- Yeah we throw that out there but just given the heightened conversation we just had about upgrading. Is there not some validity that it might come off as mean spirited comeback however really well right here that's a picture with the completely user -- next he's in the -- stuff. Right now -- they're saying look at Annapolis not -- up anyway -- get any machine. Go -- these jump through you know these hoops -- gonna Matt -- and I actually think raffles and telling us I know. I actually and I and I think that you know whether it's a question -- or not you have to hand it to to apple they win here in terms of you know getting computer upgrading equipment upgrading year old computer and okay there is a break with snow -- for all systems for pretty old -- well I've got so when they did the break when they switch to the Intel architecture. You know if you're running a power Mac on an old power PC chip you're not going to upgrade the snow leopard. But because apple is able to -- their whole ship. Right all their users so easily can they control legal system they can get away with that -- snow leopard for 29 dollars having people. Not multiple editions of it. But -- gingerly letting people know here is we want you all the -- this because we know."

" you know never crosses like you if you haven't fairly recently which most people community who don't have a five year old computer that mean that people buy new computers every couple of years. And you know three years have you it's you put the disk in you upgraded. It's it's a -- and review. And then finish his name removed eventually -- going to some installer there is no -- there's no process it and let's say look Microsoft has into the afternoon it's more complicated system. But yet to me it just speaks to how to -- in the does that make -- with -- but it's also clear Isabel still dealing with what they tried they try to have it both ways. I sir Donnelly avenue -- and they have both ways. They tried to say. You be able to moved into Vista. But we're also gonna bring all this new stuff to the table but what happened was ended up with with with broken product. -- somebody's going to -- like out there and some have. --"

" Having -- just I'm just as say that. Cut me off about them. You'll Microsoft it's really it's about -- right you know -- apple has this kind of closed ecosystem Microsoft is dealing with 90% of the BP C market. And -- is. It is all these different systems and there's all these different drivers and -- of the people upgrade every 2 years but I am constantly running into people that are running and working with 56 or seven year old Casey -- that I have a little bit of mosquito. 95000. Employees trades a huge company is -- they cannot figure out. How to get 80% of their base which is running XP to move to seven and it like efficient easy manner. We think that that's a failure like vision but also we also have asked a question about your. The other question on Microsoft where they make decisions about we're talking about 32 -- and 64 bit in the home starter out why I mean why can Microsoft make a single -- 32 bit or 64 -- that's the choice -- to make and then. You decide. What you want. From that disk do not you know I know you can get you can upgrade after you install things right wire of these seven boxes you know Harmon -- they're -- offers its chip they're definitely feel that."

" He where Bob -- but now so this brings me back to this when I wanna run he had because. And I'm gonna run out of windows -- that we -- seeing this week about it being all about you in this is that this is the windows add. The individual choices that go enrolled --"

" You know I want you don't -- My listen wait until I want less waiting. As clean -- loud and clear when a whole lot the last thing go I was -- just. Easier -- excited about clean and simple simple simple error and -- man."

" If Ricky yeah and now we're rolling now we're talking like a -- I'm an easy and windows windows seven. And yeah it's. Thank you."

" And I imagine people want something simple and you know they wanted to would they want to work easily and I'll obligations come on and I know how they were -- for yet -- pulling -- to get it done. So now the price I want to come back to the price is the question right. A 199 dollars for the base. Box. Is that -- 19900 Internet and you can also won 49 for the the home premium edition which had been install on three computers and household and you also have -- obviously -- we can talk about and on some -- of the student edition -- given dot edu address against an additional thirty dollars and I've increased sales -- you ran out mysteriously after fifty dollars -- the question -- is. Is it worth it I mean forgetting all of what we talked -- the upgrade and how much headache it is the price alone. To go out and perhaps even save that money out and buy a new computer that's already running windows seven if you need to have a windows PC we're already life."

" And that's actually one of the arguments they're making has a lot of you know being an I think bomber set yesterday a lot of you know a lot of you are pretty examiner it's a great time to buy new hardware -- Think about -- hey you hardware and actually that's very important this is this is what the manufacturers want this is the partnership that Microsoft finally get the -- up with this that was about the not talking about. Including their partners -- for driver issues. This time they've been talking on the whole way and they are so excited because all of -- wants in this industry is for them to sell more hardware so they can really get that engine. Going again and Mike -- by the way made the point. That most people the largest number of people will get windows seven with new PCs they will not be buying the opposite visited us. -- reading -- punished -- true -- week you guys did that top ten reasons to stay with XP."

" Do we do you have friend that was primarily kind of served on them within a business context. Actually that article a couple of other kind of articles are also for being. In the days -- talked about how. In terms of seven particularly if you're running -- small business to kind of a larger enterprises probably. Worth waiting for the windows seven service pack one which becoming probably later permit and honestly -- I think. Tomorrow. Yeah. I thought yeah. The reasoning behind that in terms of XP is yes I said before 80% of businesses you know -- one analyst's report radioed nice certainly I mean yeah I. -- Are currently running next either -- IT infrastructure is higher than that but the other thing about it -- wells that you know. No matter what you feel that we're still in recession are coming out recession I think Argentina or -- pretty much -- they can type over the past year a lot of you know IT pros are really suffering in terms of how much cash they have on hand. In order spend you know upgrade their infrastructure upgrading their hardware."

" So -- that's a great point I mean an end it is a question. If you -- I think it's a great point that you know it's not just about consumers there is. Enterprise here and they're not they didn't -- this stuff -- two thirds of all businesses are still running XP in the fighting back Steve that you can. If there's -- I mean you. You can just keep XP you have -- your system down and you your feet working for years old building no music and that's no reason to go a step closer to compel them in its load. We know we will support and support and 2014 we also know this isn't."

" Warranty yeah also do we also come headed by yeah. And heavily and it's well digital about it but. But I know that."

" I think -- businesses have been doing for the last three years is not sustainable -- like oh this guy left. So here's his old laptop you know and that's been happening over and over again with these garbage."

" It's not sustainable and and I think there's realization on Microsoft's part in some of the partners partner that they -- no matter what."

" People even businesses are going to start buying the big questions and I don't see how they can do it is whether or not they'll try and rolled back. Young people we would buy new laptop I know I -- saw the business doing it doing this again Vista system I don't move. -- to XP right now will you gonna do that now with an eight year old operating."

" Some woman I mean even if everything works everything works great you've got your whole infrastructure may surrounding it build around and you can you can give us a better system you have an animator have XP as -- So there is that -- silently."

" does seminars people have -- virtualization to run certain applications and their particular for businesses that have kind of an apparent from park -- very -- at this point applications that will only run on XP. You can open up that window activated figures are far blended and they're what you can't it did you know it's not like you're turning your match with -- tires isn't yet that's a last -- kind of effort but it's not like here. Turn your entire system."

" Trying to -- medical let's say yeah I'm I'm wants to show I have I had this situation I'm running Vista service pack two. On laptop. Do YE upgrade to windows seven or -- take -- 149 bucks and buy more -- Well how are you experience been happy with a use a lot of -- hazardous. Two is fine this you know I think it I think vista's been under fire I'd buy something for yourself it's either have -- these sneakers what -- so wait a few more weeks and by. Netbook like or an ultra an ultralight which basically -- get like a 600 dollar see -- be laptop which is probably -- be running out windows seven and don't kick -- And I'll have more ram -- young if you bought like four gigs of ram and -- that money which. Could you have done away and spent a weekend is blown up on and -- Yeah and you have a 150 boxes and you -- statement announcing the same -- is home -- home edition run windows side. You know I think you should I said and you're running Vista and so buying more -- right year and next thing you're running X you know I Spitzer Vista service I hardly miss out -- okay yeah. Exactly yeah yeah this happened I've -- yeah. That's a no -- I want to make the point that I feel I don't think you're a little bit like the the the fact that seven is -- good operating systems get a little bit notes that pushed aside. Yes it's been too many options it's probably too expensive it should be cheaper. And is upgrade happen should put if you have the final product and -- have a laptop running that's not buying it. It's good anymore stays the way better educated and much more enjoyable experience and I don't I have to say that that and that is true and I I don't mean a knock him off it sounds like what we're doing. It just -- I think -- this moment. Might it doesn't make it easy to love I think that's the problem is that the nasty he put all this there's all this complication around it. When when -- did you have a great product and everybody's. You know prematurely interviews as this is really think -- really and cleaned up. What they're doing -- in with their allies but they started off making these books -- with free credit quality. This small one of the smartest thing -- and Lebanon Indiana -- and they actually don't -- you know they had all of our readers excited. I would like free how would repay -- eight -- business yeah that and how they and India actually it's you know I and I. I've talked to in the name and we've heard from and that they really took and that's really -- commercials about. They really did take a lot of that feedback to heart I think they said. We screwed up last time. -- you know clearly consumers to not do for it yeah. And we need to rethink our strategy here and let's listen to what they're -- and I think they really dead and by the way you know Microsoft almost seems to be taking a more humble approach. Then their main competitor. Oh yeah yeah yeah does everything better and I could truly this is not apple remain competitors windows XP. Right I think I'm not easily. Dyson that's because we can always say that Apple's main competitor but when you in the marketplace was still 92% of the country running -- he's right nine he had signed by nine began when apple and apply if you see a nine of them lesbian doesn't run --"

" Continues to run like you're an undying -- I I I. -- just contagious."

" He doesn't fit the when you have up when you how's that much market share right you know you have this you know. This it was a it isn't he -- more. You know I wanna hear me to go over to Vista and again to -- right now there and then behind me they need to get penalized it -- be fair here because. If Microsoft does run attack canceled and being. We've created as a whole other side of their operation that they have run attack ads they run out they basically -- yeah under attack yeah."

" The surge is a model to dazzle us women ages people and I make -- talking about out of our ability and that those are that's a direct attack on Google. And Ballmer in an interview with CNET not too long the suggest to our whole point of them. Running these ads and doing this is to to eight market share away from Google. It's forward and say to innovate to do this -- that we -- that was the bottom line for an update in on the innovation but I think on the market from a marketing. Perspective if you look at how the market -- and and marketed windows seven Vista was about the wow windows seven is they're basically saying look -- that works you know what we promise it works but it's not. I guess the bottom line it's on a main competitor is -- we talk who collectively say this if we if you were right you -- MacBook Pro he had you know recent apple products and -- said snow leopard is it a no brainer to upgrade I think. Everyone around now I say it's point 10 and issues -- but 29 dollars -- a no brainer wouldn't we all but what we've said yeah yeah yeah. -- absolutely."

" Oh yeah significant audio -- I took I took the drive out of my laptop and and putting you drive and installed leopard. Because snow leopard doesn't work means of production for my production machine but -- hindsight but at the time -- say yeah I think the major problems and snow leopard I mean I'm not -- issues -- mind I think your problems -- eleven and you be fixed and that happens -- last. Can just send them out on -- I've completed about a number I think that's. That's human -- and I have treated angrily -- We can't get around is this Microsoft has its market it's a big market. They can they're not gonna -- on XP forever that's a fact and it also might -- isn't going out of business and Apple's not going to take their market away from them so. People are going to go to seven or whatever happens after seven had just gonna happen if you're gonna happen by attrition or it can happen because people really want to go over but it will definitely happened there's no question about."

" On the market shares have so and we've gotten what what wolf I guess this -- mean just think about. The way to mark his press turnout for Dell might -- this -- 1100 dollars. You get a windows seven desktop you know -- seven laptop. You get in that -- from -- an okay you so much stuff later. I got here ask your heart rate and things like some help. I think this is an ominous -- a -- we know we have to we have -- figure -- this is something -- files the right -- that -- the that's three windows seven licenses right. You can putt for save money -- that he won OS some licence and -- Myself market -- going to be dominant forever because you simply just get more for your money while I mean was speaking on next to give me great transition and you have a -- it's okay."

" We have about fifteen minutes left in the show. Hillary is your business it's and I didn't have a -- we get every possible nook and cranny on this incident. But first let's talk about the -- we have a little video from like a minute of it this from Apple's website this is the launch this week. Perhaps trying to steal some of of Microsoft's thunder with the release of the new -- Macs the new Mac minis. And the new -- take a look at this. And yet."

" gold actually a lot of and it fills that aren't as good. They didn't really change the tool you know they're they're all -- trying to create beautiful aluminum products based on an amazing technology. And making it very very simple. This new iron man -- really easy solution. A product that was so Ryan. In so many ways when -- first."

" It's just dominates -- but I in this. Credible news sixteen by nine display. Good -- figured out a way of taking the books and really with the improvements. It's just display -- in -- That's it I mean you're just completely. Consume."

" We had I can not -- so helpless. It's not an economy that is commenting that that it is British accent Johnny I'm totally. Hundreds of you I cannot and I loved I think I -- is a brilliant designer he's done it's the stuff he's done is he's monumental moment in our industry you know in terms of industrial design. But I will say it's kind of like you know they they would put -- British guys in late night infomercials and our class is -- to have a better. This small we're. I think I've heard Jack yeah."

" Camera that was not that was -- the -- and written about the mass -- the masses sort of the most insisting product that apple dead we again thank you -- that's always a little little animation and let us jump and they -- experts you guys you I think you said in boxing first ran earlier this week galleries I raced across town -- can --"

" After Israel radio artists NN reported its best I know it's so that's -- stock in trade here until we get to see this first up what was your impressions of the displayed -- new lineup of its iMac is mason president China is if you're looking amazing for an iMac is amazing prizes at the same category I and that could put a -- this planet -- aspect ratio -- the -- now aluminum. Well -- classes that up -- Right there is an unhappy that I really only you can buy a monitor with super high resolution -- he's gonna get more screen real estate right now could limit."

" Impressions of -- you IMAX. I think that I mean. For me kind of within the context of windows at the entire time you launch was -- so much kind of about the industrial design and so on so much as apple. Perhaps having this waiting in the wings for some time offensively. Timing the release if only to steal -- news. Some small percentage of -- share away from Microsoft this week and not allowing Microsoft to kind of have an unimpeded camp. We -- itself and -- said Arnold who book yes I."

" It's actually 88 becoming a more common apple tactic I believe that we've seen this a couple of times apple -- you know we -- we were -- questioning. Why apple had this event where they had you know palm had this event the pixie sort of announcement right the day of the night Apple's. Fault that. And I've heard rumors -- that apple actually moved. -- To coincide with what they -- was planning really yet that -- no matter where hey I've -- not -- you know the only indication. Apple apple has got more intense about time to time things can get messaging out there and I totally agree they put these systems out right. You know. That day to try and steal love the Microsoft windows seventh under. But they also reached out and want to talk about how they're operating system is better than windows so that's right and and -- ever done yeah enough that is Big Apple has been. In fact I mean what is isn't so sure that the quote -- is still windows I mean I think they really have. Attack this -- on whereas before they've just sort of done the -- in new you know let everybody kind of well this to do its own job I mean it's what's within and they couldn't they couldn't help mentioned -- and every event and I'm gonna be something and what impact. As I hotline been successful -- three when -- I do play video look at it."

" Snow leopard now that it's gone they have you know suddenly they have a conundrum because for so long this that was the punching bag by which you know they arguably gain market share and now that. A lot of the arguments surrounding this have effectively been eliminated by what has -- cannot figure -- yeah figure out a different tactic now in order kind of maintain market share against women they just we'll be normal or orderly manner and India and whatever they were doing before."

" Well arguably don't forget where they make a tremendous amount of money on those iphones right and -- a lot of money at what fun. But the -- the other thing that's you know the the other thing that's interesting is that those ads focus so much on the look of the system might -- for the camera sweeping by the end. And that the industrial design."

" And at that a mansion a visual -- mention of snow leopard and as the platform."

" Which I always find interesting because I don't -- a lot of people lot of things that I realize that in the competing platforms that they become one more alike it's a commodity."

" So now you have to really compete."

" On the look of -- and I an -- and this is good at that."

" Well that's an advantage but definitely now Saddam that's -- like yeah totally -- laptop and makes no sense. Finally as -- insane product -- got to get dinner table on grounds on which has two different and we'll just do it and I got Kevin we we've got ten minutes -- only get an -- real fast because there's a backlash and it seems like that a lot of the a lot of critics are saying it's not a compelling experience we use it to touch mouse and there's like gesture controls on it. I don't play with -- yet what is over the years -- Apple's going after touched very differently than Microsoft Microsoft wants you poke the screen right now apple says here's a huge. Multi touch track we can. See this this is this accident MacBook the same on your Mac -- problems Z MacBook. It's got this huge -- track pad its sides he has one big button right and it's like it's a very interesting to use this track that people live there. The hated her love it. And the mouse brings the same experience more allow -- to the desktop right -- reach -- poking at IMAX screen and getting -- which. I think Steve Jobs and -- I would. And actually cry that was Acadia. You use the mouse for you can't pinch to zoom breaking pretty much a school."

" For someone else in the -- is a small surface you can do. You don't you a couple of judges like -- left and right gesture to fans you can -- scrolling with one gear to connect scrolling and whip. In both horizontally and vertically which is a good and that war is only one -- so okay so there are certain things I do with the mouse and were actually required to a physical buttons I'm not going to get I got."

" I don't know I -- that -- there. Are there -- moment that I do my computer problems. That are required to be able to protect you go. Toggle between two buttons at a time and take hold one down and hold them another one now export so -- you can't do on this now so for me I'm I don't care about how. -- They like it -- now. All right igniting a human hand that's actually think they're capable a lot of stuff you -- thing about human figure out overall I was nervous I didn't think -- to -- I don't think he's the that that that they about humanity can do a lot of stuff and when you when you. Get rid of all the buttons and you throw a couple of neither couple -- there. You're other singers aren't doing anything and -- mouse it's not like you can just click -- two fingers -- one finger let me ask your question because Microsoft. You know has project Mittal which is all about playing a game with nothing but your body why is that we're not seeing some sort of little camera next far. Our computer that lets us just do this. On the table top and and move around widening his -- learn keyboards that -- yeah. It seems that nobody you're limited Tron universe -- Helmet on but coming up -- I."

" Yeah. We can't you know and touch interface is actually use -- finger to scroll through books now who has -- I'm good thanks this is okay or outside whereas -- so they do. Eight so we saw that from Barnes & Noble this week course we're all big launch event for the new new -- What's interesting about this device struck me right away of course is the brick and mortar feel that I mean. Josh talk about hands you want to get into the story. You -- actually touch the device and see if it's something that could living your life. Very often I'm walking McKinnell to a from the somewhere and I talked about this for people ask only that the -- can be modified to hold a C a heavy isn't. Because they cannot get it mostly order from Amazon now and then want to return it. So the color screen at the bottom we'll see in the second here is and he hands the book to William lynch and then -- realize what's going on and I paddled over to the actual. I. Hurricane. We Tennessee community there can only a couple of my actually -- don't know the NFC that you I don't know issue -- and we were not allowed to touch them at the Amazon than you -- which -- all those appearances in this video that's the battery killer. -- I don't ask I think he's very it's it's running and it. Opening attorneys that they're saying it -- a little last considine is all you're really by if -- reading fourteen days is the Kindle. The touch screen how often do you really have that on it goes to sleep pretty quickly. -- This compelling part --"

" I don't think that I don't -- yeah yeah I think it's an MBA yeah India a showstopper for people who wanna buy this the company well what's a battery life. I don't know that color screen and and most people who are in the -- say. Well worry about battery -- that -- extremely well recharge your book it's not it's yeah. E-book readers have different expectations because they have to mimic. The the experience of Reading a book and one of the most important part is you can open up and read it wherever you want me don't wanna be on oh. -- right no matter how well yeah. But I need the advice the differences drastic when was imminent four hours four hours fourteen or -- eyebrow at four -- You know -- RS ten it's ten days I was always we're -- OK so one charge get contenders on the net. Gets you fourteen days on the Kendall went to meet -- but we don't know you don't know. -- Hey look like it was okay -- right we don't we wirelessly you know that doesn't help so it's have you tested it."

" I don't I don't he's my idol because I don't find these things to be -- compelling right at the time be able to go into a -- you'll be able to browse books for free on the device and actually -- through a full books at their drink coffee they need to be free books as well on certain days when you're in this I think the reason."

" Simitis has a hand up on -- on a layer cops are on. The Kindle is that he actually -- in terms of how it's -- and what it does. He's getting closer to what people are you familiar with in the book experience and -- don't -- I rival Philadelphia I'm records he's he's an authentic you walking to a store and look at it touch it that's one way however that would have -- Bible and you go to from the people who work I have people might look I don't get -- Amazon okay. I initiated a final word on the -- feature and what your final thoughts is -- jump in our room around the yeah yeah -- I think that's what."

" is an interesting toy and I thought it was interesting that. When you lead to book you can -- someone another book on to their device for fourteen days you can actually read it on your own devices like actually landed the physical book to so you don't you want from book and he don't do what's her book. The measure that the interesting thing about that -- that. I mean if it seems like that cool. Cool -- feature but it seems almost like a secondary -- I'm not sure that's what's gonna kind of what the differentiator her so in this versus the Kindle or facility -- here."

" Yeah let me just say for people who wanted to upgrade you don't need to upgrade I don't think this is a compelling enough devices on get -- do you have and -- and oh yeah -- yeah and besides the fact I still think this is a device to weigh station on the -- a better -- it down the line anyway -- record attendance tablet that. --"

" I don't know about roundup -- three minutes left -- They're actually marketing history air -- great story okay on the apple fourth quarter earnings call this week we heard that they are expected to spend a heck of a lot more money on air freight. For the holiday season what does that mean -- mean here's my rumored gas that it could be a larger television and apple TV refresh LG display. A beautiful and it's pretty okay well."

" You know it's they can -- a lot more apple tablets into a small things but they're very happy go ahead of the data okay yeah. Space H Paula nice that's nice job -- around what he -- going to be sort of be clear -- suppose you could just make up something that -- you. Without journalistic integrity class yeah -- good hard to -- I think it's gonna be -- 42 inch tablet."

" Nick I think behind everybody's back Steve Jobs went and bought -- other auto company were about to get the -- car."

" OK. -- they lie you wanna back me up on my large television with apple TV built them. Yes yes I'll I was like how they're just being really cocky and -- their leadership and why this. Okay clearly it is clearly not iPods or iphones could it'll be just the IMAX. It's gonna laptops. I think there's really a sense -- values are selling a lot of laptop the issue Hillary Clinton basically -- seven and IMAX they're right monster has. So what did three inches bigger than that she's going to be monsters of the provision to lot of weight leadership yeah -- go yeah. Every month and the I car thing."

" I think I -- might wind up behind me and you like modeling that TV shows you right. We have the good times and you know you have got to wonder may recognize this and there's here's what we have five million under through rumor right now on your iPod and I get to go down the line here and thank all of you highlight itself from engadget dot com thanks so much -- and excellence. Nicholas school accounts he is from. Fiery hot -- enterprise it has an. Acidic. As long as -- yeah. From engadget dot com also make -- on -- you check out -- and gadget show. -- You all for joining me and our panel today and thanks for everyone for way unions are we -- all of your questions hopefully we answered them all in our own fun. That's it for gadgets -- games you can download this video podcasts on plugging away on iTunes as well see you tomorrow morning on FOX & Friends here."