'The Murder Business'

" It's your book. -- that I'm very into -- For you to town of Astoria and why you felt compelled to write this particular book and I find this subject matter can be very interesting -- what."

" Again way if if it wasn't it's not something intentional that's gonna kind of something the -- you know I start with the Simpson trial and first from a detective. And I'm dealing with the press before OJ Simpson by. Not -- return a phone call there's nothing that they can help me. -- the OJ Simpson case and we -- the world descended on Los Angeles police department our division. I was the darling that I was the evil. Sorcerer. Then I was stopped bothered to. By the media. I wrote a book. Then it starts coming around gonna write another book on the Martha Moxley and now the media as saying 00 okay now we're gonna be on his side and on the Martha Moxley case. Bad that I work for far. And really what I start working for fox. Bill -- and Roger Ailes today. They saw that they need somebody. Like myself and doctor -- to be here to help them not only understand but do no harm. In criminal cases and have some kind of a connection and allegiance with the police and be responsible enough. To pass on information to sit on information that's important and doctor Bob and I understand what's important. We also know what the police are doing. -- so why don't understand -- other network. There's -- in the thousands of detectives and pathologists that are retired that would love to. Be on retainer or work part time or work for -- get the best. Business. So I'm not getting a little bit and -- about this question of the sort of time left -- we we. Kind of triage information. We know what to put what -- on information and -- on top on these criminal investigation so you could do it. That trend that could do it and that's what stimulated this book because I -- over networks pay for the news. They don't check of the police department before I have announced witnesses or potential witness -- or or even suspect being flown to New York -- money compromising. Everything in the case. Kind of like a surveillance or wiretap where we beat them -- their house. To actually get the phone call to make incriminating statement. In the case."

" I -- I like fact checkers. You you go over the information and you look for new information it analyze the patterns what we actually -- the."

" Field and we actually investigate from the information but. We're. You know we don't have them. I I think structured. Runs system that but we make contact with the investigators -- pass on information. And we don't put out a media if that."

" When you get information I mean you've -- both of you are part of my greatest team as well and credit as a phenomenal job. On her show -- breaking news on -- number one and all the crime staff. So I mean I've seen you out in the field you can -- And part of -- investigations essentially right I mean you've been able to get information feel that other people that avenue pass -- on if you haven't had a little."

" Look let's talk about where and when doctor -- and I were involved in the Drew Peterson case and doctor -- I talked on the phone and we were talking about this audio case. I I talk to doctor -- to get information to confront the coroner. So I had a working knowledge in agreement with doctor Baden that her death was in fact homicides we both won't turn away from our -- is different specialty."

" That was the case where they had decided can't -- yeah and then -- of let you know they did in the case is now open and he's he's in he's gonna go down on."

" Now I want doctor -- to explain what he saw but that's his specialty I know what I saw but I was so. Proud of him because he went right on them against everybody. In the country interest of this a homicide absolutely 100%. Yeah and I don't even need to look at the body and part of it is mark."

" Knows from his polices sources is police investigation. He concluded that the investigation of that death was flawed in many ways. -- by looking at the autopsy findings going over over the -- accounting so that the autopsy was flawed. Calling an accidental drowning when the evidence initially. Showed that she had. -- they have the better home with multiple lacerations and injuries on the body. Who doesn't happen in a drought in an accidental drowning quite so. It would drag them right perspective -- fight mark was able find out that there was lot of problems with the the way the carnage jury did things that. And how they arrived at conclusions. And how there was a police officer -- on the on the kind of -- That could have certainly actor -- in calling it an accident."

" And -- able to get to the bottom of the family structure what was going on in that relationship between two of that prior domestic violence. Between them the threats there was letters all of accepting incoming I'm -- watching on."

" I don't mess that it NASCAR -- a piano brave a brave young man who. Had a balances news is -- his profession. And a a dead victim that has not been found yet so. It was -- balancing act and being able to to talk to him and treat him with the respect -- his profession and his obligation to somebody -- trusted him with information. To make sure. That it was passed on. If if she was not found or found dead that was anything for you why thinking and what happens -- trained and have interrogate -- how to find Windiz interrogate them. Get information that can be helpful. I was able to help out because the family -- want to second autopsy and a second autopsy. Which we did we did was. Prove that this was I don't know I've yet -- I mean he stood against the entire forensic community. And stood barons and made the statement that. And they actually had to -- the same that would that that's right so that that was interesting to -- the entire forensic community. That these solve rate for murders in this country which what I -- that was like. 85% solve murders solved in the sixties. Presently -- all the DNA and all the new technology. Has dropped to less than 45%. And you and what's your opinion why because part of it is. That the -- new investigations. Relied too much on the forensic laboratory and not enough about the old fashioned way that mark was blown up. Shoe leather knocking -- is checking our bodies and interrogate first skills and interrogating the first 48 hours."

" Absolutely so what about the -- of picked -- the lines of the of the people that are no longer they had been murdered victim. There is something that was created before and something created around them -- they have definitely may have caused this whole thing that happened that trenches just. It's great that."

" Well right but it's it -- I I always called it the you have to do it by a psychological autopsy on. The right environment the victim live -- and who the victim was to actually understand the movements and what happened after or in the absence of the victim. And paint a different -- to everybody. For gifts and in the entertainment industry that there's a victim. They start talking about ratings getting the next person on TV and everything whose offense yeah and and it's not because we work for fox if I wasn't working for fox and somebody else was doing what I do I I would say the same thing for Texas Tech. Taken a step. Beyond. Everybody else and being responsible and they're still on top of it --"

" So it can't do it that way and that what evidence is in the -- as they say. So this so I also want to tell people -- they can get this Amazon.com. Amazon.com. Barnes you -- I think you make -- on that note we're gonna take a quick break for a message from our sponsors and we'll be right back and doctor Michael Baden mark Furman. And -- smiling. Welcome back so we're just talking about -- we thought we'd like to discuss next with our esteemed cannot and doesn't. --"

" Many want to talk about Casey Anthony and the investigation denied knowingly -- obviously that's something that -- for investor. Very familiar with back case and we inside. Well I think it affected that it's really touched my heart because I work -- apparently -- network quiz that generational families and looking at patterns instructor. And the fact that she could possibly were allegedly killed her child. And then went the life. Indicates to me that there is something seriously wrong. In it. In that particular area that I see what that particular area. Family. A family structure. I mean I don't want -- I don't wanna tell what my ideas are on the date because that would have a personal. A personal feeling to it but I'd rather hear what you have to say about it and then I can -- what people like I don't pattern."

" fit in and a general sense. I I thinking it's a little deeper than just the face value of one family yet I think we're on the on the the edge of the second generation. That doesn't have to take responsibility for the -- they don't understand. Actually owning up to their own conduct. So when you have these young parents. Or young husbands. -- get involved in something that escalates to a point where they strike out there's an accident there's an intentional injury but leads to death. There's no more taking responsibility for what I've done I'm so sorry I didn't mean to. We have a generation that simply. -- of dirty clothes under the bed and make us believe it. There are more important than the dead victim. I don't -- and I think this repeats itself over and over and over again it's hard to understand bit. People there's certain people that just will not admit that. Well I made a mistake I didn't mean to and take your punishment they feel that -- above that I'm sure there's some psychological. You know mix or genetic predisposition. That creates this but it. I don't believe that a domestic situation -- a child or husband or wife that. It's an intentional homicide because that person would have to be an idiot. To not only do it in the house but -- with family members and close proximity contacting them. Or. No place to get rid of the body Scott Peterson -- Lee Anthony and a Drew Peterson."

" On and on and on and on."

" Yeah and also. I'm I'm kinda wanna talk a little bit about him they come -- and slam yet that we -- What happened there. --"

" Obama all of the mountains. That it will -- Cummings stepped on the second team missing myth is that it. -- neck he Anthony was 22 with 21 it he's a very young women that haven't had a chance to grow up themselves. So where is there support to that had any support in growing up. Where would the adults in the situation that -- fun month cut. Where the adults and what happened and why -- disconnect so that one can commit an act and and be so -- site themselves and that they don't as you said it don't take responsibility. But they almost don't believe that they did it."

" Is that kind of an out of body -- Experience we're looking down at somebody else committing the crime it's not really them yet if it's not really bipolar but it -- and definitely it did -- it's if it's associated activists -- wanna I -- I think doctor Baden would have some insight in."

" you -- in the decades that you've done this. Do you see the difference. Ingredients of these homicides. That that's it isn't that two things -- in in the consideration of full disclosure. My wife the attorney Linda -- Biden. Is one of the defense attorney -- Casey Anthony case right so. Even though his book we've. It could indicate a bias here but what's -- using the think mark. Is how a good. Investigative. Really has to be a psychologist right so. Take into consideration. Not only how to approach people to question them. But also to approach the whole world circumstances surrounding the -- that. Because the context is very important -- try to figure out. Why that person. Is dead. And in the investigation."

" you know doctor -- brings up a point that people don't understand it in good relationships. And as far as investigations. The -- apologists in the detectives are are tied in very tight end of the -- colleges. Depends on the detective have -- not only on the the victim's life. And the crime scene but really what how they saw the crime scene -- how that the crime was committed because he asked to tell me. Exactly how the person died and by what method. And all the little pieces of evidence and if it doesn't bear out medically with what I think. Then I have this information within the first 48 hours to interrogate somebody. And not be caught. NA NA in the theory that doesn't hold water."

" That's absolutely and part of you that question -- how things have changed over the years it's part -- good to know. How much. The changes due to media exposure. Events that happened -- time but one thing is clear. That in the sixties do with 30000 murders in the United States now the -- 18000. So that the concept is every mayor every police chiefs -- it wouldn't be better work. Nobody every says. In light of current that national concerns that's because -- better medical care. Then going back and going back over cases in the sixties and seventies. And recently. Is that people used to die of domestic violence and -- the wife hitting the husband the head with a frying pan of the husband stayed in the wife of a kitchen night. They come to hospitals now and they get cured they don't. Whereas sixty is just have before Caspian before Medicare they used to --"

" Water before -- heretic oh I don't know --"

" Looking forward the idea that it was okay to go to effect on that -- mental illness and demand that violin right. That kids need to should be out in the open pit -- so this would support that drive."

" But -- results is -- decrease in the solvable cases and that is. The domestic cases were the ones that we the easily -- solid -- solvers. They're not dying anymore the ones that are darling I gunshots -- distance. That -- hard to -- by strangers that. -- to -- in the sixties and is still partner I don't and I am but they're now a bigger percentage and that's why they're more unsolved murders. Percentage wise. Because of the fact that the easy ones of."

" So a lot of things can change this in a different communities where people don't want to cooperate -- give information known to be seen as a -- or Iraq or anything like that right. I saw this on the news this morning. Whereas young boy -- wrong place at the wrong time was an historic I -- two were injured he was killed of the fifth fatality at the what I liked. When I -- the community action was they wear out there I think of my friends saying he saw something you see this video. It captures and very clearly you say you've got to come fly with no hands he --"

" Giving up so right anybody give them -- I I have not and I can't win tonight who also in Chicago and the admitted killing had poor kid. We have lots of people -- who did it and nobody so far right as we understand has come up. To say I know who did it. Which case isn't this the kid who was just walking home from school or something. And got -- not panic panic and lie down and -- I have I had Leo yeah dies. And honor student that -- unity that kids know each other. I don't -- for years of this niche business that's happening when they beat in my and we had done that video that was tariff line really really -- you know is this."

" gangs there there is no. There is no group of criminals that can't be penetrated if -- if detect I found. Skills. To actually work a case like they did in the fifties and sixties before we even had sophisticated blood testing. Yeah you have to put a jacket on somebody for something else you got apple -- have to take them. Put him in custody you have to work -- have patience and if the media is on to what you're trying to do. People will give it. An easy about it. Exactly my confidence. That you will keep their name yeah confidential. If they give you information that's another problem with the media they get onto this. They're gonna be in front of that person's house and the game is all right. And -- that person -- it. -- it and and unfortunately. For the media they'll never know completely what the police investigating news they have for tactics. Or what they have in their playbook. And we don't even know but we can speculate. Where they're probably going by the actions and what they're doing so I can kind of project what I think their idea is. But unfortunately the media they're not gonna do that so they are going to unintentionally step on a surveillance a wiretap. A witness they're gonna be in front of -- house they're going to. Kind of in directly. Subvert this justice and talking about yeah and we're watching. You know TV we do not know if the suspect. Is holding a -- child. -- has buried a dead child. What you do on TV. When you show a composite when you show -- vehicle. If not done through the direction of the police department. Can indirectly cause either a body to be moved where we never find it a suspect to -- or a victim to be killed and we'll never know what --"

" And so true that's the thing if so how do you you know make you make those decisions -- he. You can put the person -- position where they feel trapped and if I get rid of the end and that's -- I think -- can escalate. To a homicide versus. And kidnapping and weapons."

" Let's look at -- makers. The body was taken from the house in a garbage bag in the trunk of the car did the body stay in the trunk of that car until the car was impounded. Some twelve days later eleven days later. I'm not sure I think the body was placed somewhere right. And then. Moved to another location where it was found because that area was searched once so. And -- I'm not it appeared that correct yeah I'm not yet I'm not sure but. What elevated the suspects. Needs to dispose of the body at another location. We don't know could it have been. You know the questions that people were asking. It certainly wasn't the media at that point but the media played into this not understanding. The process of the suspect went through. And really you're creating. A jury pool but now really doesn't understand the case it's going to be presented to -- and there are some -- there."