Gadgets and Games: 10/9

" Good Friday afternoon everyone welcome here to gadgets and games is 2 PM eastern standard time -- streaming this live right now you're missing us you miss any of the show you can always get us. Via iTunes is a video podcast download welcome to the big shall we got a lot to get to today a lot of big news that unfold this week. We a lot of great video for your show you some of the different hands on stuff that I got a chance to do very excited about it. For someone introduce our panel over my left shoulder. From the city of Washington DC our nation's capital is Stephen Baker he is joining us via Skype this afternoon from NPD group. Hey Steve engineering I and he just fine -- are you today I'm doing well Stephen thanks for joining us today. To my left to his left virtually. It's himself. The sixty. Is -- Dolly of course he -- technology writer for business week magazine and he is in love with iridium this week. We're going to be talking about Darwin wrote the -- the -- certainly is but we're gonna talk about when you -- business week this week about that would dive into that thanks for joining us again as you. Set Borges isn't technology editor popular tax you know you love them. And he's joining us today. From popular mechanics I think it a little feedback from Stephen. To -- headset. At the right at yankees stadium. There's the beautiful speaker phone with a wonderful land line okay. All right so just get a little volume feedback there anyway set we have a great night last night of course a breakthrough wars -- popular mechanics 2009 a lot of stuff. Big success."

" Actually -- their breakthrough awards are annual gathering releases get the coolest biggest most -- geniuses in the world began in the one room. And we applaud all the cool things they've done over the year old agrees and pensions all the great innovators. And we kind of just recognize that our goal really is to say you know the world we we love you know musicians who have sports stars of the movie stars. Which also love our scientists and engineers and teachers yeah and have a plane and getting kids look up to the idea that they can get superstar if they Freddie Mac mentioning. Too."

" Great great pretty sure lesson we'll get into some of what we had at last I was -- video as well. A -- joining us he's associate editor PC mag dot com fighting a cold fighting off but he's here yeah -- actually this is good place and they might have been a senior editor institute's senior. Let's get let me know that they'll let you guys editor of the qualities that changed well it let's take a -- look at it was a state associate editor you know out and we have to change it -- get a little bit later congratulations -- right there. Great to see guys all right let's dive into big announcement this week Windows Mobile six point five Microsoft making the announcement. It. Boy when he I was just rolling with excitement this week met. And I think what really."

" He uses it -- really wanted to see what Microsoft was gonna do with six point five and of course Robbie -- up there on stage and was talking about the personal station obviously made it more finger friendly for Windows Mobile looking towards a -- you know touch interface. -- AC CQ or is really one of our -- our devices that they're sending out -- a lot of the press. To really showcase of what Windows Mobile six point five can do so I'm gonna fire the so this is the pure. One of the things I noticed. It is. You've got the new. And and NASA needs some shots here of the strength issue and -- yet. You try. If this is the what honeycomb display in the front serious hitting a lot more applications on the front some people criticized saying it's too busy readers think. Let them."

" You attacks yeah administrative. And thank you I think it's have a letdown for lucky because he's seen with the -- seat and Microsoft can create a really compelling mobile interface. But it's not on this phone that does an HD interface is what they -- then everybody loves it it's so easy to navigate through things that's compelling smooth. And this is just not that I think from that perspective to the the -- down yet and it totally fills that place holder sort of hey we're still around everybody -- and everything you know everything Miller a mobile us right now. IPhone. Android things like that so this is sort of hey look we're -- but it. Seven point -- is gonna be off of."

" Yeah -- meanwhile you know I've seen the call be renewed once again. For. Microsoft consider acquired Research in Motion particularly on the buyback because of the pullback stock. We'll that would be interesting and a I'm not that I would necessarily advocate such a thing but then that the thought is out there yeah the thought is out there and I have to -- when it might it is a funny moment for me Stephen because as I. Jumped into an application. On Windows Mobile six point five what did it do it did a very windows thing for me which is. I wanted to launch the photos application. And it asks me are you sure you want to launch the photos application -- the pop up quickly yeah -- I was yes I didn't wanna launch of these applications that's why I clicked on it. Stephen what's your impression of us."

" Well I'm the beat they they got some work to do well. You know like everything at Microsoft. Tends to take a long time but one -- yet to the right spot it usually is pretty good I think the big fear is. By the time they get. Windows Mobile seven and everybody will be yet. The equivalent of Windows Mobile later Windows Mobile mine. And it's pretty hard to make that kind of week. Nearly -- they've probably got it would zoom but not how many times can you really do that."

" I think the biggest disappointment for molecules perspectives that some of the hardware their buildings into this really great hardware race incredible hardware that board to help cool lessons for the telephone that you're talking about. For instance the HT CHD. Yeah. Yeah do exactly for the the Samsung army to write all these really incredible phones that incredible amounts of power technology. But just barely usable because the OS is solely. What I wanna get the feeling that they are in fact working on -- convergence device that there's somewhere that that they that they -- publishing their teams together. This did in the mobile but they've still got to put the bits that public face of Windows Mobile."

" Who won a BI if I were Microsoft right now I mean I would do this on the -- to that. I would. Basically throw everything out and start over again. And as did the legacy forget supporting everything that's come before because you don't need to. You can start completely fresh yeah it didn't zero point bringing up this idea this convergence device we asked Robbie -- that in a round table of course and Robbie Bach. One and had on shoes for Microsoft is in charge of their entertainment devices division and he said. He left the door open the possibility of Zune device which is a question why are we still. Why is Windows Mobile still hanging on when you've got a great piece of hardware. That all the bells and whistles this holiday season in the Zune device why not Zune phone but -- left the door open to that device right I mean that's."

" Clearly that's cited things isn't quite ready for primetime at this point yeah clearly it will be soon and I mean it's the ratings on walls and habitable we've seen the response is an HD which everybody loves her face is what they should have been. And if I were Microsoft and it's going to be really really hard to do because so many different business deals and all the this. I would just cut off making oh operates -- other people's funds is focusing your own phone basically is an HD with the receiver and it took."

" In addition in resisting they brought on Todd Peterson Stephen you can speak to this a little bit -- they brought on Todd Peters of course to do you know on our show here -- use the easy button because we try to get -- techie. What he was the creator of the easy button from Steve things. And so Microsoft hires Todd Peters brings him over from staples to revamp Windows Mobile the mobile platform. And the idea behind it is they're not he found he is stunned me in New York Times he's he he found that people had no idea windows had a mobile operating system. When he was interviewed and he ran polls and all sorts of focus groups they found that most people didn't even know windows had. A mobile operating system therefore he decided to scrap the name altogether and instead we're only gonna see the Microsoft logo the flag logo. -- the easy button. On mobile phones from now on is that right CNN."

" Yeah I've heard that took me out you know I used to work for staples many years it got up. So why I loved the easy button at it was a great place to work. The other piece of what's really going to warrant -- I guess I would disagree about Microsoft when you're hardware actually think. What they really need to do with Clarkson trade aren't really building that partnership model what Microsoft's been great debt and what's me hero operating system so successful. Is the fact that they can work with everybody they can be agnostic and I think enough. Com phone space now what you have the whole bunch of very proprietary products. In our -- westside general you know very specific. One -- two -- small family of products in the big opportunity for Microsoft. Is partnering across all the guy who -- great hardware. In delivering nevertheless that's worthy of all that great hardware he had and that's how they can differentiate themselves that's how they've done in the PC world. And if you're going to can act though windows phone in Windows Mobile true. The windows operating system and all the other kinds of things that Microsoft does. I don't think you can be a Microsoft only product it really has to be focused on that partnering."

" Well here's your here's your easy but just to celebrate tonight and a big fan of here is easy button. -- I heard Peter Rojas described it this way he said you know he thought it was that basically treading water. The might that Windows Mobile just treading water and that just when you think it's -- godfather just what you think it's dead. They pull -- back in the give you a little hint of a little hint of hope and one the only few areas of sunshine that I saw. At this event was the -- my phone -- find my phone feature which is something that probably going to be involved in every mobile operating system over the next year. We sought and mobile me obviously with the iPhone the find my phone feature allows you even if the phone's on silent. You lost the phone it's -- couch or something you're able to send a signal to -- will ring the phone at a really high level even if it's set to silent. That's exciting that's nice it one of the other things he talked about was personalization. Making these devices personally had different back place different displays. Will one designed by a particular architect one designed by. Fashion designer or something. But those things aren't enough for media excited about it an operating system is there's just not a lot of excitement around around that I mean. Look at. Look at where the timing is it feminism is really on to platforms it's well three hits it's apple his Research in Motion and it's and -- Google and I think. The battle is really between right now for mind share for number two Google and and --"

" Has a lot have really the second tier in terms of hype. And and why is apple sells some holes cut all the applications all the software developers really -- about. We then add it myself even being beat -- beat out by Paul if there is yes it particularly that -- Yeah absolutely and even Andrew a number of android devices we saw how strong android now is in the marketplace that we see in -- who we don't have time to go and all the android phones released this week and he don't have any time there's going to be a big had to get a lot of."

" I think Microsoft the biggest thing have to worry about is answered because the reason Windows Mobile still exist despite all the problems of the years. Is the fact that it's kind of the default operating system for phone manufacturers that can't make their own software so company like very few phone companies have expertise -- the hardware. It software as they use things that Windows Mobile and enjoyed it's just more compelling and easier it's easy for developers easier for consumers. And so that's the biggest of the Windows Mobile -- the default -- west for Samsung corporation C and for -- you know these guys that don't make their own self."

" yeah but we had a roundtable discussion with Robbie Bach. Again who was also responsible for holding the the address there on Windows Mobile six point five for Microsoft. And it was started as an Xbox -- and Xbox discussion which was which is one of the things that you Microsoft should be very very proud of obviously Xbox Live huge success for for Microsoft. And I really feel a leader in that category but it. This discussion devolved into other areas of Windows Mobile and and I devolved into other areas of the the future of convergence devices and so forth. Michael -- asked. Ask -- about the future of ten computing does does Microsoft still believe the pen computing. And looking across -- these devices -- the answer was look we want thirty. We want my Windows Mobile six point five we want Windows Mobile to be on all of these different phones thirty different phones of course when -- it up on the screen there's thirty different phones on the screen. One has a stylus one doesn't will there be a tablet PC will the courier. You know be part of that whole ecosystem eventually. And Robby went on to say that look there's still something they're working on closely. And they don't wanna abandoning it's still the technology hasn't over the years has been kind of crappy and it's Microsoft is -- research and development looking towards that. When asked about the tablet a some of the other things he came out of that was again. I asked Robbie on whether or not we see a portable Xbox. You know to take on Nintendo in the DS from the tea take on PlayStation and then the PSP go and again. Not on their eighteen month roadmap released not willing to talk about that Stephen what were your impressions of what Robby had to say the other day. I."

" Degree review I think you know there's an awful lot of opportunities what I mean you've done -- pretty good job of articulating all the both. But it's pretty tough for for somebody like they have to grab all those things all at once. Yeah that that that's an awful lot of people even for Microsoft to compete with. In developing against then I think they're better off personally focusing. On the pieces that the strong with unit that things are really. Nash the best with what they do -- to -- yes there will be a much better OS for the phone in really expanding the Xbox Live. Opportunity and really using that integrate the phone in the Zune. And even getting into the OS and probably Crimean age -- things like media center to windows seven and really creating compelling. Experience to explore slide that what she's going to all sorts of different devices. -- little -- devices it all sounds great. Overall hardware guidance but know Microsoft. At its core really isn't a device company -- really do. Prefer to let other companies build the devices. And let themselves build the software in the Afghan. -- did you make Hezbollah or -- you don't software than you do hardware and so little bit of an easier. I'll margin business yeah and I mean that's just what they used to when I think. -- That's what this during this idea would be great yeah portable Xbox and while those other things but it I think it the end that is dated much better off. Focusing on what they do well and what they do well is."

" So what -- This past year has been a pretty much -- win I'd say for Microsoft they've certainly impressed a lot of us and I think with project Mittal which we first saw of course. 2009. Thanks Stephanie great people over a month mechanic for making this happen Microsoft for doing this. They won an award for and we have some video like to show you I actually finally got to have hands on -- will not know hands at all. With project at all take a look at this this is me playing I guess this is their game ricochet."

" Great stuff yeah. It's sort of like a breakout late game it's Iraqi those old games for your body would sway around neat that he's all. We try to smashes bricks and -- on how accurate was can see -- so politically and kind of mimicking the movement. -- disappointing -- permit -- to start having fun -- happiness are dancing and moon walking and it's going around. Electric's lighting and when it wasn't in the -- like the coolest kind of experiment was seeing how well -- with moments when you turn around. Yeah even when your public was told it was really cool it's been put your hand behind your back. And the camera -- you can't see it but it still is able to method but with your other choice we'll -- a losing your shoulder seeking an extra -- what you hear the story where it is incredible to me."

" Yeah it was pretty incredible experience and really got to play this got to play driving -- that EA has worked on. You know it's all again it's all at tech demos -- really -- and and this is not there's not even a time there's not even release date yet for project at all but this is an exciting thing. And the potential for the social the social networking aspect for Xbox Live the interaction in fact. I think one of your editors -- was talking about the potential for Microsoft in the future. You know imagine me. He had an architect to literally walking through. A 3-D environment of a building that he or she has designed it's not even bill yet but just to feel what I would like to be will be united to walk through that environment."

" Actually it or school terrorist kind of play with -- virtual clay and watching their creations come up on screen yeah this whole new kind of been dreaming of this -- ever ever since computers first came around. In this the most compelling application I've seen Manchester based computing effort and it surprisingly simple it's just a couple little cameras. And the guy who it is the thirty year old guy in hopes Kidman and he told me that that you know I asked them are you surprised at how positive responses but he didn't know. But he should see their faces when it's being first war when he first set it up and first time it actually worked it was like this eureka moment for them like imported and expecting all the pieces to come together like this interest actually work."

" Too gonna have some sound I interviewed Alex -- and he is he's one of the creators of -- it's all isn't it isn't it -- does it matter if we can find that video EI had a chance to ask him the development process and what that was like. Thinking about getting rid of the controller. It's Alex Pittman. From Microsoft he was the developer of yet no no worries."

" It was his idea that the -- project."

" coming through some of the developments. Yeah and so to remove the controller from the whole experience to speak your body part of that. Set that have been big win for Microsoft we'll see how they integrated into the Xbox experience. On an Xbox Live stuff and it had to say some of the Xbox Live features they're rolling out FaceBook and Twitter you know initially were like. Last year we heard an. And you actually see on the screen and looking Xbox Live experience did you get a chance to play with some of these features that we with. With Xbox Live but."

" I didn't I and I don't had a chance I was I was study Korean and a chance to Lawson and I feel like in the same argument can community project to college if they felt like these sort of -- out in time to come -- free period. And that came out around the same time that Sony introduced their motion controller and it felt like everybody was sort of rushing out to come out with something that was sort of like the Wii -- Right now the right to see it come out its its a lot more interest thing that I don't think the timing was quite right on it."

" Yeah that cities to see -- seem like Netflix integration now being able to pick from your Netflix queue. Right there you're not having to go on your computer and add movies do you know streamline Netflix movies there. And the and the high definition streaming through the Zune marketplace with in within. Xbox Live. Is exciting and gather around front lines of congratulations to Microsoft which is something we've been able to say over the past few years -- with Vista and everything so. You know as we Europe for its chances in Microsoft. You know -- them. We're trying to get movement that was -- you -- even back here we lost to Skype connection here so we're trying to hopefully gets even backup and then running a second. Sometimes this happens not sure where it is on his and places like -- yeah he's fine with Xbox Live right now Alicia -- the -- event this week Sony announcing some big. Some. New bios yes a little bit -- a little revive those things and Brian you're referring to the X series that is the Sony Vaio X which is now they can lay claim to having the world's lightest. Laptop the growing -- We get on the show on for next week at least yeah for next week or next week yeah -- be a month before somebody else is even smaller is smaller and lighter that. And I believe we have some video of this and we're match trying to get Stephen back up here that. Sony Vaio X. And at at the announcement you can see how thin it is and of course they would claim the idea that there's it's a stint as a pencil. So we just talked to witnesses as were rolling it too because one of the things I felt when I was holding when I was actually holding the and there's one of -- when I was actually holding -- to the computer side. So its its its very thoughtful flimsy to me on the screen in an effort to get small the television flip open screwing it felt. It felt really flimsy to me -- is cheap form factor to it what were your impressions of."

" Pro for what like a 1400 dollar notebook and the other runs -- 800. Dollars. Yeah and I and you know the top part of the screens and flipping it open I. You want there to -- you you feel like you wanna have this device for a long time if you think thirteen hundred dollars on its carbon -- but it by no mistake he says yeah pretty I mean that is pretty strong and it it feels like plastic that is it is a pretty strong material feel like when you're you know when you're when you're twisting the screen -- it will not that I'm gonna be twisting the screen but. You feel like it is if you're gonna break it when you're twisting it. The price point on this of thirteen hundred dollars."

" The competing against ordered all of netbooks is the problem and prints it went fifteen underdog MacBook -- yes they -- exactly it's it's really it's a really tough marketplace there right now in these things have such a short shelf life. Before next generation to come out. That -- its interest its technology is pretty much probably its most -- still have things like you must begin -- checks in -- like India that's kind of the constraint really as physically fitting all that stuff and there. But the competing against things are much smaller than them and are being topple and those -- two really tough thing fulfill the Phillies though is that a good job it sort of being the the apple of the of the windows -- I feel like that feeling you know if if you're somebody doesn't want it spent quite that much money to buy that book that facility by it was probably good Alter."

" Yeah we saw some of the UK specs of the by UPI thought we see that there too which is a two gigahertz processor bump bump but we didn't see that announced what were your impressions of -- Yeah it's instance I think he's going back in in in pushing the thin ness of a computer and I remember ten years ago they had some of the most notebooks around via. And and -- but they've really been challenged the last few years but that this is a full fledged. No -- I mean is competing against a note in the netbook space. I mean it seems like confusing message via. Especially at the -- delighted that we glory with Leo books and it's right now so that it's hard to -- that consumers I was impressed the speed with which it was running it was one running windows seven. And it -- keyboard felt really nice typing on the keyboard -- really nice and I wanted to test the speed of windows media center as well because this was. Yeah that's when you got a device like that if you wanna test its girth if you wanna test its its strength. One of the things you wanna do is run windows media center on -- I launched it launched from very you know very nicely was able to interact with windows media center pretty quickly on windows seven. But I think that's one of the benefits of windows seven maybe not necessarily the idea of the atom processor that's in this thing one point six pounds. Only nearly half an inch than optical. It does not have an optical. And of course is the MacBook Air in hasn't LEV. Leading display. Two gigahertz Intel chip that suits that it's the -- it's an atom processor -- atom processor. So -- interesting and we'll see also in the L series which was also rolled out and we've now we have that video I know he's. Messaging is back -- by the way he's running it he thinks any Stephen back up and running and running video at the same time. The Sony L series this is the touch screen. Here on stage. And looks allowing the HP touch smart."

" I think it is exactly the -- I don't really think there's anything differentiates -- but it's not a credit marketplace is going to be HP kind of has this themselves at all and one. Touch screen PC thing to make others out there I can't think of any. And Sony's probably thinks that there's a big market for this people are gonna want these things in their living room to sort of hybrid media centers what do you think -- there is more to this touch of a story and now one. And basically the consumers there's a big opportunity. For businesses. Okay now let me ask you this I don't know hotel and I was in a hotel in Maryland not too long ago and I walked into the lobby. And I seen HP touch smart. One directions to restaurants print out menus restaurant and directions. You know it's better than a surface a Microsoft surface devices much cheaper too much cheaper cheaper. Is that where we're seeing this that they're going to be used -- a restaurant reservations hotel check in advertisements. Com we'll kiosk they -- basically a cheap kiosk. They can buy at that spot. And for business perspective this is very very compelling. And and Sony knows -- what are your impressions of actual touch the touch technology what we're doing playing with HP touch far from me to sit out about this divisive about the L but. Your experience with that type of interaction is -- something you see in your life he could really general consumer or is it more what they're talking about in a more in a broader business sense."

" Yeah I mean I think consumers want it right now consumers haven't on the phone right now they're sort of waiting for it to. Really come out of the PC -- windows seven is a good opportunity for that well obviously though this multi touch integration built in but. Oh in terms of the consumer and I think we're really sort of waiting for a killer app I don't think it's not yet you know in order includes people that they need touch screen on on their laptops."

" I've I've -- I've contemplated this quite a bit and it's much is as much fun as it seems to be. I'm when you start actually thinking about the use case in the ergonomics I mean imagine. And making this motion and doing this a lot right in front of the computer. You're gotten your arms are gonna get tired there's a there's a certain use case and a certain ergonomic position that -- used. With our hands down read in a more relaxed position I think that's going to be one of the fundamental challenges of this technology going forward. Information kiosks digital signage. Where do I get to this -- that room. You're gonna see a lot of that in the coming -- have we seen sales numbers for these we have not and I think that's talent yet is telling because I'm curious as I've played with the HP touch smart and I'm standing there and -- frustrated after a little while mean. If I wanna flip through photos it's great but I'm not gonna sit -- do any real work to your point."

" And although we have Microsoft courier like device at the time -- right that made you know an book reader my particular effort. I usually let my guests try to show some because you brought up even better let's jump into it let's talk Kindle you know here's here's the Kindle two and this of course."

" This is one of my favorite devices that are used in a regular basis but that -- Kindle 2. Was to 99 what was 350 we should be clear -- drop down to 299. Few months ago. Now it's down to two. 4999. Fifty dollars off. Try to get Stephen Baker appear available the background us beyond. The Kindle 2 is now 24999. This is just the domestic version of the Kindle 2. There's also now interestingly it to 79 version of Kindle 2. Which is an international plan available over a hundred countries which will that was a big holding back like he was and I couldn't of the Amazon Kindle. Me in Europe the and I was worthless to me because that wouldn't be able to download books. Not so much a problem engadget just breaking the story just a short while ago. From Amazon that there will be impacted DX. International version launched early next year as well. What do make this good good move for the holidays."

" found I've used it enough times that I actually I think it really has its got a lot of good name recognition. Pete it's it's in the same way that people think of an MP3 players and -- IPod they're kind of synonymous the people think he region and Kindle one thing right now and last year and I think Amazon. Really really does has shown the way I'm the -- Question is. What are the publishers doing. And what is apple going. -- those are the two big questions and apple cup is supposed tablet coming up right supposedly it's going to be part. You know super iPhone you know maybe without the phone. Reader. You know if apple gets into the business of selling print pattern books and magazines and that sort of thing plus video for this thing I mean who knows what -- Applications can be for that."

" Well we've got Stephen Baker back after they figure. Hey man. Ignore what you wanted to -- this fantastic hello I'm loving. -- Global we -- we're talking over some other stuff here few minutes ago we were talking project and at all but I wanna get your perspective now we're talking. And -- bring -- a great point that it depends on what the publishers are gonna do we were hearing the word of course from Barnes & Noble. About their. And it looks like some rumors last night that it may running android also possibility yeah possibly say yeah so see what's your pressure on the price drop from Kendall."

" Well you know 250 ninth -- group and price points. To be honest with you this is it's not right it's not just point out onto yeah when he 92 to nineteen have -- 249 to 59 in my book left that it -- Gardner. They -- don't really isn't a big deal in terms of price price point at least. No way consumers look at that they're gonna think it that -- is the same price -- the global war. -- You know why it's obviously been done well and it's started to really create this category and be very interesting to see what happens. This holiday why haven't been. Particularly excited about you readers this thought they could there. Aren't very many excuse and it's kinda hard for consumers -- what they are and where they're gonna be all. Best buy just said the other day that they're gonna create kind of -- gadget. Section in the store that is a place for them to put all -- You know maybe you did or start to see some critical mass in terms of the category but even here I'd be surprised that it was. Huge category this holiday but certainly as we get through 2010. This is one of the few products segments that when you look out you can see some real opportunity for growth the."

" From my perspective the most interesting thing is -- international mission because as until now there was no way using the Kindle another country to the on the books you're travelling if you two -- before -- left. And this is really -- very very specific customer and that's the business traveler or that it constant world traveler. Who is behind so often that they can't get the books in their home they need to buy things are always on the road. When they're there what this really opens the door for I don't think this person's been sold in other countries that could be wrong to think it's only being sold in the US. But this opens the door for Amazon to sell the Kindle 2 an international audience was right now does not do it because of the sprint with Burnett. It's kind of just an American device to start moving others that this opens the door for that. It also shows that are not kind of narrative and the sport's -- because the whisper that runs on -- put the international stuff from the eighteenth -- It's gonna cost you a bit extra done these folks in overseas but it could kind of guys always over there it's it's well worth it. I was his agent Brian you mentioned we're Tommy android yeah wanted to yeah I'm really bad that's that's what -- for a feel like that. That could be the major next step in terms of these integrators and it Amazon as low three different versions of the Kendall. But they'll sort of feel like first generation devices yeah I can't really you know unless they're very basic but if you really opened up to what is essentially. But open source LSU any company can take this and adopted today -- device. You can really transform this into some sort of convergence device which you don't have right now with a candle."

" Yeah I think -- when I saw that I thought wow that's an interesting idea actually putting android. On a device like this because what are equal all -- and it's much as we love our Kindle if we if you use it obviously you love it but the software is shaky at best. It would be nice to have some third party applications on there would be nice to have that opened up. And who knows what we'll see from this Barnes & Noble. You know if it's got the -- I'm sorry -- has the this the store experience at Amazon is able to provide. Be able have been integration which Barnes and -- moving towards be able to download books wirelessly. Be able to have a -- nice display. I don't know Syrian see color until early next year."

" From then what does what of the main things they think we know right now that that reader's gonna have that the Kindle doesn't is the ability to. Download books from. Google. Download all these sort of beat these these. Open source all all of the other different put out a critical of everything is like that because they don't make money yeah it has Korea items on store ligament in the USC."

" I'm gonna let me just point out something I guess. You know would be cool thing to do all those things but what you would get it to just be great book reader per cent but before we start -- all the other crap on it. Com you know I think if you wanna get a mass marketed auction. Or something like this it really has to be focused on doing at least the main gas that it supposed to do. Pretty well in pretty seamless for most consumers people are gonna walk in the Barnes & Noble the basic consumer. In want to surf the web on this earth play games and do all sorts of other kinds of things read it let's just make your book reader and stop trying to turn it into something else."

" So you bring up -- great point about walking into Barnes & Noble that's another issue that Amazon doesn't have a lot of people I see what I have a Kindle 2. I am now reading he would always that the that that Kindle device they want to touch it do you experiences that people wanna touch your Kindle always title. Well -- house touch my Kindle. But does just that but it did express interest -- put it that way. And you know they they ask them and and and what it's like but but you know but then -- color screen and they. It'll be losing a little bit of their interest yeah NB doomed the addicted to the point be able walk into Barnes and you'll actually see a display case heard it a display with Barnes and -- only. We were out walking -- borders and see the Sony Reader there and be able to play that you it was interesting to me I would spend some time -- thought about it as long as I can buy the same barks. With the same experience. I wanna leave through the physical book. And then decide -- I'm I've got my Kindle or my. That experience I can in this story you've got to have in store purchasing but Google's gotta have unity the other person. And -- and some news that numbers and and PD had crunch this week and before we have another scary issue and I think this bodes well back to school study you guys did is we're talking about the Kindle perhaps Kindle DX. You guys found your back to school sales that back to school sales were down but not out dive into the numbers for Stephen yeah."

" You know it was -- okay back -- school are being you know we've seen the whole year this year so far we've -- sales results being pretty mediocre at best it retail for consumer attack in. You know as we go forward we're we're hoping people get better but. You know the core categories for Barack preschoolers no -- And no it loses big fallacy outlook -- that nobody's buying anything anymore. And yeah this is you don't computer notebook sales are up in units and double digits. Almost every single month mean all the different ways you can slice and dice those numbers. People -- computers they need them they use them. This is not a luxury product it's a necessity. In the numbers kind of -- that out as we look through back to school season that's not the kind of thing that people are gonna stay informed. The problem is is that all the manufacturers all the retailers are having trouble more unappetizing basically anything that they sell right now. Consumers are. Diving down towards the -- and looking for cheaper products that manufacturers and retailers are more cutting prices in the operating. Lower and lower priced goods that. -- these consumers. Sort of -- race to the bottom so. You know it's great to sell a lot of units but we're have a lot of trouble generating revenue we expected that's gonna continue throughout the rest of the year. But let's get around the fallacy that nobody wants to buy anything yes people love electronics. And these aren't luxury items these -- necessities for most people."

" I don't hear from thousands of viewers generator basis who email me want holiday EU related. Advice for -- wanna buy computer for their son or daughter whatever or they won't want and I have to say overwhelmingly what I'm hearing wanna get your perspective is netbooks. Interested in netbooks this year and Kindle. Hearing that as well cherry pick up a PSP go but overwhelmingly netbooks this is going to be the big story of the holiday -- I think I continues after over the entire netbook concept and in -- by computer boots that somehow less wanna do more whether you wanna do. You know everything -- it to why buy something that's you know essentially topple I."

" You wanna buy more -- I -- network for that with -- Flickr. The cigarettes and I agree a 100% would. There isn't any question. That definitely happening in fact if you look at them back to school numbers. When confronted. With the choice of buying up. 399. Are you the last full featured no book -- this and a bigger hard drive and a big screen versus a net book. Consumers were buying. Those regular notebooks in much bigger numbers. Then they were part netbooks netbook sound great until you get in the store and you would get out of it. As you pointed out you know you feel it touch it yet and and they say there are screens kind of small and -- programs and hall aren't that I'd much rather. For the same amount of money you're just a small -- war let me get a full featured notebook a bigger screen -- can do more things with it. -- great concept but I think can no longer run netbooks are just a segment. Focused on some very specific customers and that's the end of they're great for up selling off. Ultimately I think they they were doing that but you know you know one of the problems too is that the merchandising. For netbooks since the focus on netbooks and doesn't really give people you know oh good --"

" A CNN the room and yeah. It will actually disagree I think and but whatsoever netbooks what happened Lott talked before before people -- in the locked up with their satellite system for turning around. Now people's primary system mr. notebook and in that book is their satellite system I think people are not buying a netbook instead of a full fledged computer buying it in addition to that will."

" I think some people -- I think it it's definitely -- mistake it's it's up to the manufacturers to really let people know the difference between these two devices they're great they are great as secretary notebook if -- can take them to class and take notes on them rather than taking. You're human -- 500 on notebook. But it's really up to that hasn't been manufactured and to distinguish between the Q and to let people know that when they buy these things on -- the third that they shouldn't -- because the primary system."

" What the other wears a wanted to distinguish between two countries to study here from MTV and Stephen if we had your audio back here wanna make sure -- comments on this study which was getting a lot of play in the tech world this week of course apple and windows computers living together under one roof. Dogs and cats living together its mass hysteria there's what did you find in a sudden. Well. You know that that the old idea that that apple people and when those people are totally different groups is really not sure. You know we we did a house full penetration studied what we found is that really only about 2% of households just -- Mattson. Then there's another 10% of households. All Macs -- windows PCs in the homes in the act of -- growing number. And I think it really goes to show that the old ideas about what apple really was are very different today you know those of us who've been around awhile. We remember when. Yeah you don't lose the apple desktop bus and you needed separate. Floppies for apple -- that you have US beat war -- Now if you look at an Apple Computer outside the OS it has the exact same components up and down. As every single. PC does. It because of that because I can network them I can connect them all the all my other computers what we continue to see uses broke me. Mixed households where. People recognize an apple develops and delivers products that are great. To do very specific tasks the great where graphics maybe I wanna connect my iPod to their kind of product. But I also want a windows computer because -- interface is better with all the people that are talking with media like. The young browser better. Whatever by Steve certainly what we see is the real opportunity. For apple is to continue not to think about. You don't turning everybody into apple being boys but. You know getting down one Apple Computer -- to all those households Steve did your research take into account. VMware and parallels and boot camp and things like that right on -- Mac yet no we didn't look at you know whether they were using other kinds of Bob. OS is on the we were basically ask if you -- apple hardware. Or windows hardware reboot it'll open it up this style versus XPE. May be but. I'm you know again people here are using things like parallels -- can stop and think you know mass marketed auction on those."

" Kinda thing is pretty small I think you guys missed one important and that's an all these people like if you had a PC and and you buy a Mac or PCs -- your house which we never use it. But I would look did you I think a look at it for the tool households at the couple households. How much time as being stuck with the it's -- for someone that it's about ninety time with computers -- more time with the Mac for their PC. Now we didn't look at that we're we we've we will I think the next aren't a lot of people doubt with that. But I will tell you that we didn't ask people what they owned one we have to be. In the home in in use. It isn't like you know I have a -- it enough. Closet or Oregon what PCs that don't work via piled in the basement. It they all had to be in use --"

" That's how mine is an -- Dell Dimension desktop PC that's just sitting there collecting -- tonight I literally fired up -- weekend trying to figure out how can use it and I that I just turn it off it I can't figure out how it fits in in my life right now -- a Drobo and I'm backing up my material here. And streaming content into an apple TV or he's not -- Ku player I can't figure out how to use it -- I was."

" Some say the odds are if you work at a company. You're using a windows machine and there's still certain things. But most people the vast majority -- don't know if you've got. You're lucky cardiac but there there there are there're still things that you. Can't deal on -- Iraq. For both parties you can do pretty well. There there are a lot of things he can do. But you know in terms of unless you're running a VPN in terms that you using outlook exchange that's not quite up to par. There's certain things that you really aren't that easy to convert over to Mac so a lot of people probably have these systems in place at home in order to do. There work."

" the best windows experience I ever had was on a Mac. Running on boot camp. The best windows computer I've ever had that's currently running windows XP on boot camp and it was probably the whole -- and I can't stand windows as you can tell -- probably windows only saving grace is that it now runs on Mac -- one reason. So yeah -- my serial arsonist have slowed do great studies there I want to jump into an article that that Erik wrote. For business week magazine all about. Iridium and it's flying again what political. What an old name and that is. So here's the story and the satellite phone company which as you point out flopped back in 1999. Years of his numbers he uses to this story from a business week picking up on the shelves now -- you can jump on line. I'm check it out as well as -- yes. This is this is a terrific story -- the reason I love it is because everybody associates -- medium width one of the great colossal failures of the mid ninety's causes it. Five billion dollars satellite phone system that was envisioned in the 1980 launched in the 1990s. Operated on nine months before a -- bankruptcy. And nobody want that they needed a million customers and got 10000. And the last minute a bunch of investors bought up for. Clearly fractions of pennies on the dollar. Changed its operating structure and I've got it unprofitable. And turns the Department of Defense loves iridium and anecdote I was -- to confirm but I heard that it may -- Defense Secretary William -- time. Picked up the phone screamed at summons that you will not be orbit to satellites. Because they were going to let the satellites. Burn up in me in the atmosphere all 66 of them. And unbelievable BI abuse its inception colossal failure couldn't believe -- you put on the article that they're planning to raise millions and millions of additional funding -- and do that when they went when they went public through kind of a a weird. Thing called us back which don't get into is basically the investment company acquired iridium. In order to take it public there -- 200 million dollars that way. They'll raise the profitable now they'll raise money from their operations say they. Were pretty good cash offer competitive -- And then also. They're going to just leased space on the satellites and they have actually ceiling space. And this is the only satellite company in the world that includes assault on the satellite operator any time including the government. That covers the entire. Earth every inch of it have. With all those were both satellites and so if you want some space. Two you know to put the if you can't afford to appear on -- was based on these birds. That's interest and the fact that they were gonna let him crash down into the Earth's atmosphere after that I love this I just love stories back from the brink story."

" Well -- check it out on business -- dot com great article from -- there. It was certainly an education for me that did not know much the company calls check -- out good tech story. Let's also talk about I had chance hands on Super Mario Brothers other new Super Mario Brothers we get to see of course -- Let's -- and this video here we'll talk over it I had -- I just had to say what an enjoyable experience this was. You know going back of course to the old days of playing the original Super Mario Brothers certainly treat. And certainly true to that form factor we know from should -- so hoarse from. From. And that would you mind -- in we are you got that off in their mind this is that pulled up but you can actually does us no level there's an ice level. There's all kinds of features that allow you play with your friends and you can compete in cooling mode it. You can compete for just a total number of coins or you can you can decide to team up and try to get through levels together or you can fight against each other. Pick like pick him up throw home if you want. And meanwhile of course talks about this game really pushes the wheat to is absent but what if we -- the video video impressions of that he gets his chance to play this yet."

" I did it was -- it was a lot of fun but I think it's really if it's only fun if you got a lot of friends. The big the multiplayer modes looks fun but there's -- online multiplayer mode yet that I -- over they've announced. -- you really have so much -- your house this means you have to reference sort of really popular Thomas could be trouble -- can be -- community and and we can become pregnant a couple of but on its political fault it's really hilarious that this supposedly pushes the weeds without the limits Padilla looks like something in superintendent."

" It it does -- that I mean. There's a lot going on in the background unless the physics are really complicated is it -- it is and it and it I have to say the attention to detail on in this game is just is just mind blowing so I'm really excited about it and I have to say which is so addictive I like we did that after they're done playing my thumbs hurt and reminds -- of playing field Super Mario Brothers you know. The original Super Mario Brothers so it'll be interesting to see it out November 15. I I said it is highly addictive. And what's between today and tons of responses from people sitting on someone's get that for Christmas from my kids. They hit another home run here and it's."

" zillion copies of their. You know sort of fire balls you can fire and ice balls here and some and you can actually get in a penguin outfit you can get a propeller hats and swim around. Newton antennas that are really good job and stay loyal to lot of besides throwers but they mostly it's sort of revisiting these old games it was just basically reporting. Old super Nintendo Nintendo games to the way it's nice to see something -- actually sort takes advantage all the technologies."

" You -- about that because you don't -- my all time favorite games -- metro but my that was kicker it's -- from the original super from the original NES system and the only -- follow the game for that for the for gambling. But they never made a follow up on any of the other bigger than Nintendo platforms and I have heard and I get it's all rumor to me at this point but I had heard that this was something that they were working on. And we're planning on finally. Sequel to -- it chorus that we would see perhaps on the Wii or maybe down the line if there's a Wii HD. I would be thrilled slowly to the great thing is that there's an entire generation of people who grew up with with this. Generation games and they're beginning to just hitting that age where -- they're getting mr. Alter events across the and they and they can't play a lot of their games. Yes that's a built in audience yet it does it's really smart move for them so check out November 15 and I actually have an interview with should your immune most of coming up here a few weeks it'll be on FOX & Friends are excited about that. Via a translator but of course you wanna go the video games -- be pretty excited. Let's start off popular mechanics breakthrough awards -- its title of the like project Mittal earlier I wanna finish here on a bang with some of the video here. -- it. You were there I was there it is just an overview set talk about what he can roll this is just some video I shot of the show floor."

" Here yet so basically this is our annual gathering of geniuses we celebrate the best inventions and the greatest innovators of the year and we celebrated mixture consumer products that there's a palm pre we really love -- finally gotten but the charging through -- cell -- and and then just things that aren't really concerned about -- great inventions period that are gonna change the world but new types of concrete. New types of robotics -- just methods of doing things engineering feats and it's really wonderful for us -- me I think -- before. No this country's culture we celebrated musicians and celebrities sports stars -- movie stars. But we don't celebrate and seniors don't -- great scientists we really feel like we -- we're trying to do with you this peopled Alka -- and applause in the trophies that we guilty this. This wind turbine is amazing uses a magnetic it has magnets on the end of it so even in two mile per hour winds get actually get. Wind power through it this is from Honeywell and ideas that wind turbines are now you need massive holes that really practical for home use. This can really just perched on your -- and only the just the wind up our room right there yeah I think it I think Spain air conditioning. Was not to get nothing spinning requires nothing. And basically cut out all the -- that turbine itself is the generator basically Dean -- of course was your it was -- the leader and innovator awards he won a big leadership award is where we kind of acknowledge somebody who is on the lot across multiple fields -- really push forward there is right now and as I've bought with us here. But this thing amazing fun wheelchair that can go upstairs goes upstairs and keep them so much and I'm his biggest is great -- people tell you a youthful anybody last some. Is the first robotics competition which is this incredible thing. We get hundreds of thousands of teenage students they compete against each other in this kind of sports like setting with cheerleaders and stadiums. And making robotics and kind of tricks to kids because they think they're getting involved with sports competition. But the really learning about math and engineering and what he's trying to -- is -- that they. This whole generation of kids will be built in knowledge and talent to compete in the global marketplace where these skills are going to be really really hot commodities via. And it was amazing of course he's also famous for inventing the same way actually get a segue there as well it's -- his most famous for the segue but he's done so much else he's he's. Like I think he's won the most prolific medical device inventors of the world's ever."

" Yeah I mean do you mechanical arm. Value PS there's a prosthetic arms and they're working on for the military veterans who have lost three limbs but yeah I mean there was a sixty minutes piece on that it's blows your mind when you see this. -- he NO from what I understand talking to dean you mean this is one thing she wanted he wanted not a device that you would. Take hours to put on he wanted to sort of a strap -- go arms is that I and we get a house alive and need to get my art it's called the -- third empire strikes back at skywalker gets -- officer who has -- strap that wraps around and they were running the sixty minutes -- over there on the side there. So -- I want you to hear your thoughts on any of the things you're talking about there with a breakthrough awards we have."

" You know everything looks cool I'm always wear it and for those things fit that the stores open job so the rest of the people can start -- them. I'm you know it's always great to look at the those kind of things being in near infancy. But what really makes the industry go is engineers turning these things into products at affordable prices that. Note though the mass market people can get out there and Biden enjoyed and that's what makes up packer great business. Is that we're always focused on delivering you know better products for the consumer. And you know taking advantage of all the great talent that's out there."

" What we're almost out of time and -- thank Stephen Baker from NPD ILE two always ask were you working on next and before I leave here."

" Whoa you know we're just gonna get ready for the holiday now get ready we'll get Black Friday sales and I'm looking at some some sales numbers in terms of TDs in what kind of about things people buying with you right now. All knowing then getting ready you like I said for Black Friday and all the excitement data quality tends to generate."

" Great we'll Stephen thanks so much for joining us today we're Skype connection here at the top appreciate -- we'll have you back -- thanks so much Steven cute way. Eric has the golf course from my business week what are you working on their next bite of the apple column. I don't know what it's about but -- Cynthia soon to see some yeah. -- this is an interesting stuff from apple soon as well as set -- from popular mechanics died. It's been busy week for you so yeah we're either ordered to come -- to take a nap now I think we're still Terry got on this displacing yeah. Yeah the big operation so good stuff over there from -- check out that this issue of popular mechanics for all of breakthrough awards great stuff you can check it out on line. What is the web just for popular mechanics that comes spark yeah very brilliant. Yeah and right here for PC Mac when you're coming out there and try to get over this cold."

" Yeah as the C lying down and hydrating. Are hard to tell let's PC mag after hours is are relatively new podcasts are going to be. Throwing a windows seven party this week on the show."

" Yeah we're gonna try to do I hear that with the big windows seven on boxing of the party streamers yeah completes this in playing cards -- small cars as if it has battled back absolutely. -- Well thanks to all of you for joining us on the show today thanks for everyone for weighing in on Twitter this afternoon and we have so much content here you can always download us on iTunes and Zune marketplace that he's saying and anywhere you can find podcasts it's -- gadgets and games on those Claymores thanks to all of our great guests today we will see you back here next Friday at 2 PM. I'll see you tomorrow morning on FOX & Friends bright and early. At seven and things have."