Gadgets and Games: 10/9

" Good Friday afternoon everyone welcome here to gadgets and games is 2 PM eastern standard time -- streaming this live right now you're missing us you miss any of the show you can always get us. Via iTunes is a video podcast download welcome to the big shall we got a lot to get to today a lot of big news that unfold this week. But a lot of great video for your show you some of the different hands on stuff but I got a chance to do -- very excited about it. For someone introduce our panel over my left shoulder. From the city of Washington DC our nation's capital is Stephen Baker he is joining us via Skype this afternoon from NPD group. Hey Steve engineering I -- you just fine -- are you today I'm doing well Stephen thanks for joining us today. To my left to his left virtually. It -- himself. The sixty. Is -- Dolly of course he -- a technology writer for business week magazine and he is in love with iridium this week. We're going to be talking about Darwin wrote the -- the always certainly is but we're gonna talk an article you -- in business week this week about that -- dive into that thanks for joining us again as you. -- Borges isn't technology editor popular taxing -- you love them. And he's joining us today. From popular mechanics I think -- a little feedback from Stephen. To have a headset. At the -- has reinstated. There's the beautiful speaker phone with a wonderful land line okay. All right so just get a little volume feedback there anyway -- a great night last night of course a breakthrough awards for popular mechanics 2009 a lot of stuff. Big success."

" Actually -- their breakthrough awards are annual gathering releases get the coolest biggest most -- geniuses in the world began in the one room. And we applaud all the cool things they've done over the -- and pensions all the great innovators. And we kind of just recognize -- our goal really is to say you know the world we we love you know musicians who have sports stars of the movie stars. Which also love our scientists and engineers and teachers yeah and have a plane and getting kids look up to the idea that they can get superstar if they Freddie Mac -- engineer. So."

" Great great great -- last -- get into some of what we had at last I was -- video as well. A -- joining us he's associate editor PC mag dot com fighting a cold fighting off but he's here yeah -- has actually this is good place and they might have been a senior editor institute's senior let's get -- let me know that they'll let you guys editor of the qualities that changed well it let's take a shot -- it was a state associate editor you know out and we have to change it -- get a little bit later congratulations -- right there. Great to see guys all right let's -- in -- big announcement this week Windows Mobile six point five Microsoft making the announcement. It. Boy when -- I was just rolling with excitement this week -- I think what really."

" He uses it -- really wanted to see what Microsoft was gonna do with six point five and of course Robbie -- up there on stage and was talking about the personal station obviously made it more finger friendly for Windows Mobile looking towards a -- you know touch interface. And the AC CQ or is really one of our hallmark devices that they're sending out -- a lot of the press. To really showcase of what Windows Mobile six point five can do so I'm gonna fire the so this is the -- One of the things I noticed. Is. You've got the new. And NASA needs some shots here of the strength issue and seen him yet. You try. This is the like honeycomb display in the front serious hitting a lot more applications on the front some people criticized saying it's too busy readers think. A lot of them."

" attacks -- administrative. Yeah thank you I think it's have a letdown for lucky because he's seen -- the -- seat and Microsoft can create a really compelling mobile interface. But it's not on this phone that the Zune HD interface is what they should've -- everybody loves it it's so easy to navigate through things that's compelling smooth. And this is just not that I think from that perspective to the doubling down yet and it totally fills that place holder sort of hey we're still around everybody -- can't -- everything you know every -- a mobile us right now. I -- Android things like that so this is sort of hey look we're -- but it. Seven point it was going to be also."

" what -- meanwhile you know I've seen the call be renewed once again. For. Microsoft consider acquired Research in Motion particularly on the by backers of the pullback stock. We'll that would be interesting -- I'm not that I would necessarily advocate such a thing but then that the thought is out there yeah the thought is out there and I have to -- when -- might it is a funny moment for me Stephen because as I. Jumped into an application. On Windows Mobile six point five what did it do it did a very windows thing for me which is. I wanted to launch the photos application. And it asks me are you sure you want to launch the photos application -- pop up quickly here with I was yes I didn't wanna launch -- applications that's why I clicked on it. Stephen what's your impression of us."

" Well I'm gonna -- they they got some work to do well. You know like everything at Microsoft. Tends to take a long time but once they get to the -- it usually is pretty good I think the big fear is. By the time they get. Windows Mobile seven everybody -- yet. The equivalent of Windows Mobile later Windows Mobile nine. And it's pretty hard to make that kind of -- week. You know -- they've probably got it would zoom but not how many times can you really do that."

" I think the biggest disappointment from molecules perspectives that some of the hardware their buildings into this really great hardware race incredible hardware that board to help cool -- these -- for the telephone that you're talking about. For instance the HT CHD. Yeah. Yeah do exactly for the -- chancellor nominee to -- all these really incredible phones that incredible amounts of power technology. But just barely usable -- the OS is solely. What I wanna get the feeling that they are in fact working on -- convergence device -- somewhere that they -- that they -- publishing their teams together. This did in the mobile but they've still got to put the bits this public face of -- mobile."

" Who won a BI if I remarks -- right now I mean I would do this on the -- YouTube it. I was. Basically throw everything out and start over again. And as -- the legacy forget supporting everything that's come before because you don't need to. You can start completely fresh yeah it didn't zero point bringing up this idea this convergence device we asked Robbie -- that in the round table of course and Robbie Bach. One -- head on shoes for Microsoft he's in charge of their entertainment devices division and he said. He left the door -- the possibility of Zune device which is a question why are we still. Why is Windows Mobile still hanging on when you've got a great piece of hardware. That all the bells and whistles this holiday season in the Zune device why not -- Zune phone but also left the door open to that device right I mean that's."

" Clearly -- cited things isn't quite ready for primetime at this point yeah clearly it will be soon and I mean it's the ratings on -- and habitable -- seen the response is an HD which everybody loves her face is what they should have been. And if I were Microsoft and it's going to be really really hard to do because so many different business deals involved with this. I would just cut off making. Oh operates -- other people's funds is focusing your own phone basically is an HD with the receiver and it."

" In addition in resisting they brought on Todd Peterson -- you can speak to this a little bit -- they brought on Todd Peters of course to do you know on our show here -- use the easy button because we try to get -- techie. -- he was the creator of the easy button from Steve yeah. And so Microsoft hires Todd Peters brings him over from staples to revamp Windows Mobile -- mobile platform. And the idea behind it is they're not he found he is stunned me and a New York Times -- and he found that people had no idea windows had a mobile operating system. When he was interviewed and they ran polls and all sorts of focus groups they found that most people didn't even know windows had. A mobile operating system therefore he decided to scrap the name altogether and instead we're only going to see the Microsoft logo the flag logo. All the easy button. On mobile phones from now on is that right CNN."

" Yeah I've heard that took me out you know -- used to work for staples many years it got up. So why I love the easy button. It was a great place to work. The other piece of what's really going to warrant -- I guess I would disagree about Microsoft -- when you're hardware actually think. What they really need to do with -- and trade aren't really building that partnership model what Microsoft's been great and what's -- zero operating system so successful. Is the fact that they can work with everybody they can be agnostic and I think enough. Com phone space now what you have -- a whole bunch of very proprietary products. In our -- westside generally you know very specific. One -- two -- small family of products in the big opportunity for Microsoft. Is partnering across all the guys who -- great hardware. In delivering nevertheless that's worthy of all that great hardware he had and that's how they can differentiate themselves that's how they've done -- in the PC world. And if you're going to kidnapped. Windows phone in Windows Mobile to. Windows operating system and all the other kinds of things that Microsoft does. I don't think you can be a Microsoft only product that really has to be focused on that partnering."

" Look -- here's your here's your easy but just to celebrate tonight and a big fan of it here is easy button. And you -- I heard Peter Rojas described it this way he said you know he thought it was that basically treading water. The -- that Windows Mobile -- treading water and that just when you think it's like the godfather just what do you think it's dead. They pull -- back in they give you a little hint of a little hint of hope and one the only few areas of sunshine that I saw. At this event was the -- my phone -- find my phone feature which is something that probably going to be involved in every mobile operating system over the next year. We sought and mobile me obviously with the iPhone -- find my phone feature allows you even if the -- on silent. You lost the phone it's -- couch or something be able to send a signal to it will -- the phone at a really high level even if it's set to silent. That's exciting that's nice in one of the other things he talked about was personalization. Making these devices personally have different back place different displays. -- one designed by a particular architect one designed by. Fashion designer or something. But those things aren't enough for me to get excited about it and operating systems there's just not a lot of excitement around around -- I mean. Look it. Look at where the timing is it feminism is really on to platforms it's well three hits it's apple his Research in Motion and it's and -- Google and I think. The battle is really between right now for -- share for number two Google and and --"

" Has a lot have really the second tier in terms of hype. And -- apple sells some holes cut all the applications all the software developers really -- about. We then add it -- even being beat beat out by Paul if there is yes it particularly that's. Yeah absolutely and even Andrew a number of -- we saw how strong android now is in the marketplace that we see in -- who we don't have time to go and all the android phones released this week I'm -- on how many -- there's going to be a big had to get a lot of."

" I think Microsoft the biggest thing have to worry about is answered because the reason Windows Mobile still exists despite all -- of the years. Is the fact that it's kind of the default operating system for phone manufacturers they can't make their own software so company like very few phone companies have expertise -- make hardware. -- software it's of the use things that Windows Mobile and android is just more compelling and easier it's easier for developers easier for consumers. And so that's the biggest of the Windows Mobile sort of the default -- west for Samsung corporation C and promote liberal look -- these guys that don't make their own self."

" yeah but we had a roundtable discussion with Robbie Bach. Again who was also responsible for holding the the address there on Windows Mobile six point five for Microsoft. And it was started as an Xbox event an Xbox discussion which was which is one of the things that you Microsoft should be very very proud of obviously Xbox Live -- huge success for for Microsoft. And really -- a leader in that category but it. This discussion devolved into other areas of Windows Mobile and and devolved into other areas of the the future of convergence devices and so forth. Michael -- asked. -- about the future of ten computing does does Microsoft still believe the pen computing. And -- looking across all these devices -- easy answer was look we want thirty. We want -- Windows Mobile six point five we want Windows Mobile to be on all of these different phones thirty different phones of course when -- it up on the screen there's thirty different phones on the screen. One has a stylus one doesn't will there be a tablet PC will the courier. You know be part of that whole ecosystem eventually. And Robby went on to say that look there's still something that they're working on closely. And they don't wanna abandoning it's still the technology hasn't over the years has been kind of crappy and it's Microsoft has -- research and development looking towards that. When asked about the tablet a some of the other things he came out of that was again. I asked Robbie on whether or not we'd see a portable Xbox. You know to take on Nintendo in the DS from the tea take on PlayStation and then the PSP go and again. Not on their eighteen month road -- or at least not willing to talk about that Stephen what were your impressions of what Robby had to say the other day."

" Degree review I think you know there's an awful lot of opportunities for what I mean you've done -- pretty good job of articulating almost. But it's pretty tough for for somebody like that grab all those things all at once. Yeah that that that's an awful lot of people you for Microsoft to compete with. In developing against then I think they're better off personally focusing. On the pieces that the -- strong with unit that things are really. Nash the best with what they do -- to -- yes there will be a much better OS -- phone in really expanding the Xbox Live. Opportunity and really using -- integrate the phone in the Zune. And even getting into the OS and -- Crimean age. Things like media center to windows seven and really creating compelling. Experience to explore slide that let you go into all sorts of different devices. -- little under devices it all sounds great. Overall hardware guidance by -- Microsoft. At its core really isn't a device companies -- really do. Prefer to let other companies build the devices. And let themselves build the software in the -- and apartment did you make Hezbollah -- don't software than you do hardware -- little bit of an easier. -- margin business via -- I mean that's just what they used to when I think. -- that's what this during this idea would be great yeah portable Xbox and while those other things but it I think it the end that -- dated much better off. Focusing on what they do well and what they do well is."

" It's what -- This past year has been a pretty much -- win I'd say for Microsoft it's certainly impressed a lot of us and I think with project Mittal which we first saw of course. 2009. -- Stephanie great people over a month mechanic for making this happen to Microsoft for doing this. They won an award for and we have some video like to show you I actually finally got to have hands on -- will not know hands at all. With project at all take a look at this this is me playing I guess this is their game ricochet."

" Great stuff yeah. It's sort of like a breakout late game it's for Iraq -- those old games for your body would sway around neat that he's all. They try to smashes bricks and -- And start on how accurate was -- can see -- so politically and kind of mimicking the movement. At this point in the game permit -- to start having fun watching -- happiness are dancing and moon walking and it's going around. Electric's lighting and when it wasn't in the -- like the coolest kind of experiment was -- how well -- with moments when you turn around. Yeah even when -- publicly told -- was really cool it's been put your hand behind your back. And the camera still can't see it but it still is able to method but with your other choice we'll -- a losing your shoulder seeking an extra -- what you hear the story where it is incredible to me."

" Yeah it was pretty incredible experience and really got to play this got to play driving game there -- that EA has worked on. You know it's all -- it's all the tech -- so it's really -- and this is not there's not even a time -- release date yet for project at all but this is an exciting thing. And the potential for the social the social networking aspect for Xbox Live the interaction in fact. I think one of your editors -- was talking about the potential for Microsoft in the future. You imagine me. He had an architect to literally walking through. A 3-D environment of a building that he or she has designed it's not even bill yet but just to feel what I would like to be will be united to walk through that environment."

" Actually it or school -- with virtual clay and watching their creations come up on screen -- this whole new kind of been dreaming of this -- ever ever since computers first came around. In the for the most compelling application I've seen Manchester based computing ever and it's surprisingly simple it's just a couple little cameras. And the guy who it is -- thirty year old guy in hopes Kidman and he told me that that you know I asked them are you surprised at how positive responses but he didn't know. But you should see their faces -- being first war when he first set it up and the first time it actually worked it was like this eureka moment for them like imported and expecting all the pieces to come together like this -- actually --"

" Too gonna have some sound I interviewed Alex -- and he is he's one of the creators -- process it's all isn't it isn't it and does it matter if we can find that video EI had a chance to ask him the development process and what that was like. Thinking about getting rid of the controller. It's Alex Pittman. From Microsoft he was the developer of yet no no worries."

" It was his idea that the -- project."

" Coming through some of the development. Yeah -- and so to remove the controller from the whole experience to speak your body part of that. -- that have been big win for Microsoft we'll see how they integrated into the Xbox experience. On -- Xbox Live stuff and -- had to say some the Xbox Live features they're rolling out FaceBook and Twitter you know initially were like. Last year we heard -- And you actually see on the screen and looking Xbox Live experience did you get a chance to play with some of -- features that we with. With Xbox Live but."

" I didn't I and I don't had a chance I was I was study Korean and a chance to Lawson and I feel like in the same argument can community project to college if they felt like -- sort of -- out in time to come -- free period. And that came out around the same time that Sony introduce their motion controller and it felt like everybody was sort of rushing out to come out with something that was sort of like the Wii -- Right now the right to see it come out its its a lot more interest thing but I don't think the timing was quite right on it."

" Yeah that cities to see -- seem like Netflix integration -- now being able to pick from your Netflix queue. Right there you're not having to go on your computer and add movies do you know streaming -- Netflix movies there. And they and the high definition streaming through the Zune marketplace with in within. Xbox Live. Is exciting and gather around -- so congratulations to Microsoft which isn't something we've been able to say over the past few years -- with Vista and everything so. You know as we gear up for its announcements in Microsoft. You know pushing them. We're trying to get movement that was -- you -- even back here we lost to Skype connection here so we're trying to hopefully get -- back -- and and running a second. -- Some. New bios yes a little bit -- some little revise those -- and Brian you're referring to the X series that is the Sony Vaio X which is now they can lay claim to having the world's lightest. Laptop the growing people would. We get on the show on for next week at least yeah for next week or next week yeah -- be a month before somebody else with even smaller is smaller and lighter that. And I believe we have some video of this and we're -- trying to get Stephen back up here that. Does Sony Vaio X. And at at the announcement you can see how thin it is and of course they would claim the idea that there's it's as -- as a pencil. So we just talked to witnesses as were rolling it too because one of the things -- felt when I was holding when I was actually holding the and years when the things that when I was actually holding the the computer side. So its its its very. Thoughtful flimsy to me on the screen in an effort to get small the -- as you flip open screwing it felt. It felt really flimsy to me -- cheap form factor to it what were your impressions of it."

" Pro for what like a 1400 dollar notebook and the other -- and 800 dollars. Yeah you know the top part of the screens and flipping it open -- You want there to -- you you feel like you wanna have this device for a long time if you think thirteen hundred dollars on its carbon -- that -- but it by no mistake he says yeah pretty I mean that is pretty strong and it it feels like -- that is it is a pretty strong material feel like when you're you know when you're when you're twisting the screen -- it will not that I'm gonna be twisting the screen but. You feel like it is if you're gonna break it when you're twisting it. The price point on the -- thirteen hundred --"

" The competing against ordered all of netbooks is the problem and prints it went fifteen underdog MacBook -- yes they -- exactly it's it's really it's a really tough marketplace -- right now in these things have such a short shelf life. Before next generations come out. That -- its interest its technology is pretty much probably its most -- still have things like you must begin -- attacks in it like India that's kind of the constraint really as physically fitting all that stuff in there. But the competing against things are much smaller -- them and are being topple and -- to really tough thing -- so -- a good job it sort of being the the apple of the of the windows -- I feel like that feeling you know if if you're somebody doesn't want it spent quite that much money to buy that book that -- by it was probably good Alter."

" Yeah we saw some of the UK specs of the -- Yeah it's instance I think he -- back in -- in pushing the thin ness of a computer and I remember ten years ago they had some of the most notebooks around via. And and and but they've really been -- last few years but that this is a full fledged. No -- I mean is competing against a note in the netbook space. I mean it seems like teasing us via. Especially at the price -- delighted that we glory -- Leo books and it's right now so that it's hard to -- that consumers I was impressed with the speed with which it was running it was one running windows seven. And it the keyboard felt really nice typing on the keyboard -- really nice and I wanted to test the speed of windows media center as well because this was. You know that's when you got a device like that -- you wanna test its girth you wanna test its its strength. One of the things you wanna do is run windows media center on -- I launched it -- very you know very nicely was able to interact with windows media center pretty quickly on windows seven. But I think that's one of the benefits of windows seven maybe not necessarily the idea of the atom processor that's in in this thing one point six pounds. Only nearly half an inch an optical. It does not have an optical. And of course is the MacBook Air in -- LEV. Leading display. Two gigahertz Intel chip suits that it's the -- it's an atom processor -- an atom processor. So it interesting and we'll see also the L series which was also rolled out and we've now we have that video I know he's. Messaging is back -- by his running it he thinks any Stephen back up and running and running video at the same time. The Sony L series this is the touch screen. Here on stage. And looks allowing the HP touch smart."

" I think it is exactly -- have you heard. -- I don't really think there's anything differentiates this but it's not a credit -- places -- HP kind of has this themselves at all -- one. Touch screen PC thing to make others out there I can't think of any. And Sony's probably thinks that there's a big market for this people are gonna want these things in their living room to sort of hybrid media centers what do you think -- there is more to this touch of a story and now one. And basically the consumers there's a big opportunity. For businesses. Okay now let me ask you this I don't know hotel and I was in a hotel in Maryland not too long -- and I walking into the lobby. And I seen HP touch smart. And one directions to restaurants print out menus restaurant and directions. You know it's better than a surface a Microsoft surface device it's much cheaper too much cheaper cheaper. Is that where we're seeing this -- they're going to be used her restaurant reservations hotel check in advertisements. Com -- they're basically a cheap kiosk. He can buy at that spot. Ever business perspective this is very very compelling. And and Sony knows that's -- what are your impressions of actual touch the touch technology what we're doing playing with HP touch far from me to sit out about this divisive about the L but. Your experience with that type of interaction is -- something you see in your life -- could really general consumer or is it more what they're talking about in a more in a broader business sense."

" Yeah I mean I think consumers want it right now consumers haven't on the phone right now they're sort of waiting for it too. Really come out of the PC windows seven is a good opportunity for -- obviously though this multi touch integration built and that. Oh in terms of the consumer and I think we're really sort of waiting for a killer app I don't think it's not yet you know in order -- people that they need touch screen on on their laptops."

" I've I've -- I've contemplated -- quite a bit -- much is as much fun as it seems to be. I'm when you start actually thinking about the use case in the ergonomics I mean imagine. And making this motion and doing this a lot right in front of the computer. You're gotten your arms are gonna get tired there's that there's a certain use case and a certain ergonomic position that we're used. With our hands down read in a more relaxed position I think that's going to be one of the fundamental challenges with this technology going forward. Information kiosks and digital signage. Where do I get to this -- that room. You're gonna see a lot of that in the coming -- have we seen sales numbers for these we have not and I think that's talent yet is telling because I'm curious as I've played with the HP touch smart and I'm standing there -- frustrated after a little while mean. If I wanna flip through photos it's great but I'm not gonna sit -- do any real work to your point and."

" And although we have Microsoft courier like device at the time -- that -- you know an book reader my particular effort. I usually let my guests -- to show some because you brought up even better let's jump into it let's talk Kindle you know here's here's the Kindle two and this of course."

" This is one of my favorite devices that are used in a regular basis but the Kindle 2. Was to 99 -- was 350 we should be clear -- drop down to 299. Few months ago. Now it's down to two. 4999. Fifty dollars off that. Try to get Stephen Baker appear available -- the background is beyond. The Kindle 2 is now 24999. This is just the domestic version of the Kindle 2. There's also now interestingly -- 279. Version of the Kindle 2. Which is an international plan available -- over a hundred countries which will that was a big holding back -- he was and I couldn't of the Amazon Kindle. Being in Europe the -- was worthless to me because -- wouldn't be able to download books. Not so much that problem at engadget just breaking the story just a short while ago. From Amazon that there will be in -- DX. International version launched early next year as well. -- we make this good good move for the holidays."

" found I've used it enough times that I actually I think it really has it's got a lot of good name recognition. Pete is it's in the same way that people think of an MP3 players and -- IPod they're kind of synonymous -- people think he region and -- more than anything right now and last year and I think Amazon. Really really does has shown the way -- that the question is. What are the publishers doing. And what is apple going. Even those are the two big questions and apple stuff is supposed tablet coming up right supposedly it's going to be part. You know super iPhone you know maybe without the phone card reader. You know if apple gets into the business of selling print -- and books and magazines and that sort of thing -- video for this thing I mean who knows what he. Applications can be for that."

" Well we've got Stephen Baker back after they -- man. Ignore what you wanted to -- did a fantastic hello I'm loving. -- Global we -- we're talking over some other stuff here few minutes ago when we're talking project -- but I wanna get your perspective now we're talking. And -- have a great point that it depends on what the publishers are gonna do we were hearing the word of course from Barnes & Noble. About their. And it looks like some rumors last night that it may running android also possibilities and yeah hospital -- yeah so see what's your pressure on the price drop from Kindle."

" Well you know 250 ninth kind of regroup and -- To be honest with you this just isn't right it's not just point out onto yeah when he 92 to nineteen I think. 249 to 59 in my book left that it -- Gardner. I think that I don't really isn't a big deal in terms of a price price point at least. No way consumers look at that they're gonna make it that -- is the same price -- the -- war. -- You know it's obviously done darn well and it's started to really create this category and be very interesting to see what happens. This holiday -- I haven't been. Particularly excited about you readers for this holiday could clear. Aren't very many excuse and it's kinda hard for consumers -- what they are and where they're gonna be all. Best buy just said the other day that they're gonna create kind of -- gadget. Section in the -- the war that is a place for them to put all the easy reader products. And you know maybe you did or start to see some critical mass in terms of the category but even the -- I'd be surprised that it was. Huge category this holiday but certainly as we didn't through 2010. Com. This is one of the few products segments that when you look out you can see some real opportunity for growth the."

" From my perspective the most interesting thing is -- international mission because as until now there was no way using the Kindle another country -- on the books you're travelling if you two -- before -- left. And this is really aimed at a very very specific customer and that's -- business traveler or that constant world traveler. Who's behind so often that they can't get the books in their home they need to buy things are always on the road. When they're there and what this really opens the door for a I don't think this person's been sold in other countries that could be wrong I think it's only being sold in the US. But this opens the door for Amazon to sell the Kindle 2 an international audience was right now does not do because of the sprint with Burnett. It's kind of just an American device -- start moving on this but this opens the door for that. It also shows that are not kind of narrative and the sports right because the whisper that runs on sprints but the international stuff from the -- It's gonna cost you -- an extra done these folks in overseas but -- the kind of guys always over there it's it's well worth it. I was his agent Brian you mentioned we're Tommy android yeah wanted to yeah I'm really bad that's that's what I -- for a -- that. That could be the major next step in terms of these integrators and it Amazon as low three different versions of the Kendall. But they'll sort of feel like first generation devices yeah I can't really -- unless they're very basic but if you really opened up to what is essentially. But open source LSU any company can take this and adopted today -- device. You can really transform this into some sort of convergence device which you don't have right now with a candle."

" Yeah I I think would when I saw that I thought wow that's an interesting idea actually putting android. On a device like this because what are equal all -- and it's much as we love our Kindle if we infuse it obviously you love it but the software is -- at best. It would be nice to have some third party applications on there would be nice to have that open up. And who knows what we'll see from this Barnes noble. You know if it's got the -- sorry if it has the this the store experience at Amazon is able to provide. Be able -- have an integration which Barnes and -- moving towards be able to download books wirelessly. Be able to have a -- nice display. I don't know -- see color until early next year."

" From then what does what of the many things I think we know right now that that reader's gonna have that the -- doesn't is the ability to. Download books from. Google. Download all these sort of beat these these. Open source all all of the other different put out a critical of everything is like that because they don't make money yeah it has Korea items on store ligament in the --"

" let me just point out something I guess. You know would be cool thing to do all those things but what you would get it to -- great book reader per cent but before we start -- all this other crap on it. Com you know I think if you want to get the mass marketed auction. Or something like this it really has to be focused on doing at least the main gas that it's supposed to do. Pretty well in pretty seamless for most consumers people -- gonna walk in the Barnes & Noble that basic consumer. In wanna search the web on this earth play games and do all sorts of other kinds of things read it let's just make your book reader and stop trying to turn it into something --"

" So you bring up a great point about walking into Barnes & Noble that's another issue that Amazon doesn't have a lot of people I see what I have a Kindle 2. That I am now reading he would always that the that that Kindle device and they want to touch it do you experiences that people wanna touch your Kindle -- title. Well I don't house touch my Kindle but just that but it did express interest -- put it that way. And you know they they ask -- and and and what it's like but but you know but then -- color screen and they. It'll -- a little bit of their interest yeah NB doomed the addicted to the point be able walk into Barnes and you'll actually see a display case heard it a display with Barnes and -- only. We were out walking -- borders and see the Sony Reader there and be able to play -- you it was interesting to me I would spend some time -- thought about it as long as I can buy the same barks. With the same experience. If I want to leave through the physical book. And then decide -- I'm I've got my Kindle or my. That experience I can in the -- you gotta have in store purchasing but Google's gotta have unity the other person. And -- and some news the numbers and and PD had crunch this week and before we have another scary issue and I think this bodes well back to school study you guys did is we're talking about the Kindle perhaps Kindle DX. You guys found -- your back to school sales that -- school sales were down but not out dive into the numbers for --"

" You know it was -- okay back -- school are being you know we've seen the whole year this year so far we've -- Sales results being pretty mediocre at best it retail for consumer -- in. You know as we go forward we're we're hoping people get better but. You know the core category for back -- school was no books. And no it loses big fallacy -- the world that nobody's buying anything anymore. And yeah this is you know computer notebook sales are up in units in double digits. Almost every single month mean all the different ways you can slice and dice those numbers. People -- computers they need them they use them. This is not -- luxury product it's a necessity. In the numbers kind of -- that out as we look through back to school season that's not the kind of thing that people are gonna skin form. The problem is is that while the manufacturers all the retailers are having trouble more on advertising basically anything that they sell right now. Consumers are. Diving down towards the low and looking for cheaper products that manufacturers and retailers are more cutting prices -- and offering. Lower and lower priced goods -- Kinda get in front of these these consumers. So it's a -- race to the bottom so. You know it's great to sell a lot of units but we're have a lot of trouble generating revenue we expect -- that's gonna continue throughout the rest of the year. But let's get around the fallacy -- nobody wants to buy anything yes people love electronics. And -- aren't luxury items these -- necessities for most people."

" you don't hear from thousands of viewers generator basis who email me want holiday EU related. Advice for -- wanna buy computer for their son or daughter or whatever or they won't want and I have to say overwhelmingly what I'm hearing wanna get your perspective is netbooks. Interested in netbooks this year and Kindle. Hearing that as well cherry pick -- a PSP go but overwhelmingly netbooks this is going to be the big story of the holiday seasons I think I continues after over the entire netbook concept and in -- computer -- that somehow -- wanna do more -- you wanna do. You know everything -- to why buy something that's you know essentially topple I."

" You wanna buy more but our guys hungry network for that with -- The cigarettes and I agree a 100% wouldn't that. There isn't any question. That that's -- happening in fact if you want to go back to school numbers. When confronted. With the choice of buying up. 399. -- you the last full featured notebook with this -- a bigger hard drive -- a big screen versus a net book. Consumers were buying. Those regular notebooks in much bigger numbers. Then they were -- netbooks netbook sound great until you get in the store and you would get out of it. As you pointed out you know you feel it touch it yet and and they say there are screens kind of small and -- programs and hall -- that I'd much rather. For the same amount of money you're just a small -- war let me get a full featured notebook a bigger screen -- do more things with it. It's a great concept but I think you know why -- netbooks are just a segment focused -- some very specific customers and that's the end of they're great for up -- Ultimately I -- they were doing that but you know you know one of the problems -- is that the merchandising. For netbooks tends to focus on netbooks and doesn't really give people you know all good --"

" A CNN the room and -- It will actually disagree I think and but whatsoever netbooks what happened Lott talked before before people that -- in the locked up with their -- for carrying around. Now people's primary system mr. notebook and in that book is -- I think people are not buying a netbook instead of a full fledged computer buying it in addition to well."

" I think some people -- I think it it's definitely mistake it's it's up to the manufacturers to really let people know the difference between these two devices they're great they are great as secretary notebook if -- student degraded can take them to class and take notes on them rather than taking. You're -- 500 on notebook. But it's really up to that hadn't been manufactured and to distinguish between the Q and to let people know that when they buy these things -- the third that they should be -- as -- primary system."

" What -- the other wears -- wanted to distinguish between two countries to study here from MPV and -- if we had your audio back here wanna make sure -- comment on this study which was getting a lot of play in the tech world this week of course apple and windows computers living together under one roof. Dogs and cats living together its mass hysteria but what did you find in this sudden. Well. You know that that the old idea that that apple people -- windows people are totally different groups is really not sure. You know we we did a house full penetration study what we found is that really only about 2% of households just -- maximum. Then there's another 10% of households and out. All Macs -- windows PCs in their homes in the -- of -- growing number. And you know I think it really goes to show that the old ideas about what apple really was are very different today you know those of us who've been around awhile. We remember when. Yeah you don't lose the apple desktop bus and you needed separate. Floppies for apple and it didn't have US beat war decision. Now if you look at -- Apple Computer outside of the OS it has the exact same components up and down. As everything goal PC does. It because of that because I can network them I can connect them all all my other computers what we continue to see uses -- Mixed households where. People recognize that apple develops and delivers products that are great. To do very specific tasks the great where graphics maybe I wanna connect my iPod to that kind of product. But I also want a windows computer because maybe -- interface is better with all the people that are talking with media like. The young browser better. Whatever by Steve certainly what we see is the real opportunity. For apple is to continue -- I could think about. You don't turning everybody into apple fan boys by. You know getting down one Apple Computer in to all those households Steve did your research take into account. VMware and parallels and boot camp and things like that right on -- Mac yet no we didn't look at you know whether they were using other kinds Bob. OS is on the we would basically ask if you -- apple hardware. Or windows hardware reboot it'll open it up pit -- versus XPE. Maybe but. I'm you know again people here are using things like parallels -- stop and think you know mass marketed auction on those."

" Kinda -- is pretty small I think you guys missed one important and that's an all these people like if you had a -- the and then you buy a Mac or PCs -- your house which we never use it. But I would look did you I think a look at it for the tool households -- the -- households. How much time as being stuck with its -- it's about ninety time with computers that more time with their Mac -- Now we didn't look at that we're we we've we will I think the next -- a lot of people doubt -- that. But I will tell you that we didn't ask people if they owned one -- they have to be. In the home in in use. It isn't like you know I have a -- enough. Closet or Oregon what PCs that don't work via piled in the -- It they all had to be in use --"

" And streaming content into an apple TV or using -- Ku player I can't figure out how to use it brought you this I was."

" Some say the odds are if you work -- accompany it. You're using -- this machine and there are still certain things. And I know most people the vast majority -- you don't know if -- You're lucky cardiac but there there there are there're still things that you. Can't deal on -- Iraq. For both parties you can do pretty well. There there are a lot of things he can do. But you know in terms of unless you're running a VPN in terms that you know using outlook exchange that's not quite up to par. There -- certain things that you really aren't that easy to convert over to Mac so a lot of people probably have these systems in place at home in order to do you. There working."

" the best windows experience I ever had was on a Mac. Running on boot camp. The best windows computer I've ever had that's currently running windows XP on boot camp and it was probably the -- and I can't stand windows as you can tell the probably windows only saving grace is that it now runs on Mac no reason. So yeah -- only my serial arsonist have slowed do great studies there I want to jump into an article that that Erik wrote. For business week magazine all about. Iridium but it's flying again what political. What an old name as that is. So here's the story and the satellite phone company which as you point out flopped back in 1999. Years of his numbers -- story -- story from a business week picking up on the shelves now on you can jump on line. I'm check it out as well as -- com yeah. This is this is a terrific story that the reason I love it is because everybody associates -- medium width one of the great colossal failures of the mid ninety's loses it. Five million dollars satellite phone system that was envisioned in the 1980s launched in the 1990s. Operated on nine months before it -- bankruptcy. And nobody want that they needed a million customers and -- got 10000. And the last minute a bunch of investors bought up for. Clearly fractions of pennies on the dollar. Changed its operating structure and got it unprofitable. And turns the Department of Defense loves iridium and anecdote I -- confirm but I heard that it may -- Defense Secretary William -- time. Picked up the phone screamed at summons that you will not be -- with the satellites. Because they were going to let the satellites. Burn up in me in the atmosphere all 66 of them. And unbelievable BI abuse its inception colossal failure couldn't believe that you put on the article that they -- planning to raise millions and millions of additional funding -- and do that when they went -- they went public through kind of a a weird. Thing called us back which don't get into -- basically an investment company acquired iridium. In order to take it public and there -- 200 million dollars that way. They'll raise the profitable now they'll raise money from their operation say they were pretty good cast well her company in -- size. And then also. They're going to is leased space on the satellites and they had -- actually ceiling space. And this is the only satellite company in the world that includes and so only -- operator any time including the government. That covers the entire. Earth every inch of it but. With all those were both satellites and so if you want some space. -- you know to put if you can't afford to appear on somebody gets -- on these birds. That's -- and the fact that they were gonna let him crash down into the Earth's atmosphere after that I love this I just love stories back from the -- story."

" Well check it out on business -- dot com great article from -- there it was certainly an education -- did not know much the company calls check -- out good tech story. Let's also talk about I had chance hands on Super Mario Brothers other new Super Mario Brothers we get to see -- of course -- Let's -- some of -- video here we'll talk over it I had to I just had to say what an enjoyable experience this was. You know going back of course the old days of playing the original Super Mario Brothers certainly treat. And certainly true to that form factor we know from should -- so hoarse from. From. And that would you mind -- and we are you got that off in their mind this is that pulled up but you can actually there's -- snow level there's an ice level. There's all kinds of features that allow you to play with your friends and you can compete in cooling mode. You can compete for just a total number of coins or you can you you can decide to team up and try to get through levels together or you can fight against each other. Pick like pick him up throw -- if you want. And meanwhile of course talks about this game really pushes the wheat to is absent but what if we -- all -- video video impressions of that he gets his chance to play this yet."

" I did it was -- it was a lot of fun but I think it's really -- it's only fun if you got a lot of friends. That big the multiplayer modes looks fun but there's -- online multiplayer mode yet that I -- over they've announced. -- you really have -- people at your house this means you have to reference sort of really popular Thomas could be trouble for -- going to be -- community and and we can become pregnant a couple of but on -- political -- it's really hilarious that this supposedly pushes the -- with absolute limits Katrina looks like something and a superintendent."

" It it does -- that I mean. There's a lot going on in the background unless the physics are really complicated is it -- it is and it and it I have to say the attention to detail on in this game is just is just mind blowing so I'm really excited about it and I have to say which is so addictive I -- we did that after they're done playing my thumbs hurt and reminds -- of playing field Super Mario Brothers you know. The original Super Mario Brothers so it'll be interesting to see it out November 15. I I city it is highly addictive. And what's between today and tons of responses from people -- someone -- get that for Christmas from my kids. They've hit another home run here in this."

" Hold -- gazillion copies of their. -- you know sort of fire balls you can fire ice balls here and some and you can actually get in a penguin outfit you can get a propeller hats and swim around. Newton antennas that are really good job and stay loyal to lot of -- throwers but they mostly it's sort of revisiting these old games it -- just basically reporting. Old super Nintendo Nintendo games to the way it's nice to see something actually sort takes advantage of all the technologies."

" You -- about that because you don't -- my all time favorite games -- one -- metro but my that was kicker it's -- yes from the original super from the original NES system and the only government to follow the game for that for the for -- But they never made a follow up on any of the other bigger than Nintendo platforms and I had heard and I get it's all rumor to me at this point but I had heard that this was something that they were working on. And we're planning on finally. Sequel to -- chorus that we would see perhaps on the we -- maybe down the line if there's a Wii HD. I would be thrilled slowly to the great thing is that there's an entire generation of people who grew up with with this. Generation games and they're beginning to just hitting that age where the they're getting mr. Alter events across the and they and they can't play a lot of of their games. -- that's -- a built in audience -- it does it's really smart move for them so check out November 15 and I actually have an interview with should your immune most of coming up here a few weeks it'll be on FOX & Friends are excited about that. Via a translator but of course you wanna go this video games can be pretty exciting. Let's start off popular mechanics breakthrough awards -- its title of the like project Mittal earlier I wanna finish here on a bang with some of the video here. -- You were there I was there it is just an overview -- talk about what you can roll this is just some video I shot of the show floor."

" Here yet so basically this is our annual gathering of geniuses we celebrate the best inventions and the greatest innovators of the year and we celebrated mixture consumer products and there's a palm pre we really love -- finally gotten but the charging through -- him. And then just things that aren't really concerned about -- just great inventions period that are gonna change the world but new types of concrete. New types of robotics -- just methods of doing things engineering feats and it's really wonderful for us -- before. No this country's culture we celebrated musicians and -- sports stars -- movie stars. But we don't celebrate and seniors -- don't -- great scientists and we really feel like we -- we're trying to do with you this peopled -- and the applause in the trophies that we guilty this. This wind turbine is amazing it uses magnetic it has magnets on the end of it so even in two mile per hour winds get actually get. Wind power through it this is from Honeywell and ideas that wind turbines right now you need massive holes -- not really practical for home use. It's really just perched on your -- and only the just the wind up our room right there yeah I think it I think Spain air conditioning. Was not to get -- thing spinning it requires nothing. And basically cut out all the -- the turbine itself is the generator basically Dean -- of course was your it was -- the leader and innovator awards he won a big leadership award is where we kind of acknowledge somebody who is on the lot across multiple fields -- really push forward there is right now and as I've bought with us here. But this thing amazing fun wheelchair that can go upstairs goes upstairs and -- so much and I'm his biggest it's great to mention -- tell you and youthful anybody last some. Is the first robotics competition which is this incredible thing. Where he gets hundreds of thousands of teenage students they compete against each other in this kind of sports like setting with cheerleaders and stadiums. In the making robotics and -- kind of tricks to -- because they think they're getting involved with sports competition. But the really learning about math and engineering and what he's training it is -- that they. This whole generation of kids -- built in knowledge and talent to compete in the global marketplace where these skills are going to be really really hot commodities via. -- and it was amazing of course he's also famous for inventing the same way up slowly to get a segue there as well it's -- his most famous for the segue but he's done so much else he's he's. Like I think he's won the most prolific medical device inventors of the world's ever."

" Yeah I -- mechanical arm. Yeah UPS there's a prosthetic arms that they're working on for the military veterans who have lost their limbs but yeah I mean there was a sixty minutes piece on that it's blows your mind when you see this. And he NO from what I understand talking to dean you mean this is one thing she wanted he wanted not a -- would. Take hours to put on he wanted to sort of a strap -- go arms is that I and we get a house alive and need to get my -- it's called the -- empire strikes back at skywalker gets -- officer who has -- strap that wraps around and they were running the sixty minutes -- over there on the side there. So -- I want you to hear your thoughts on any of the things you're talking about there with a breakthrough awards we have."

" You know everything looks cool I'm I'm always wear it and for those things fit that the stores open job so the rest of the people can start to -- them. I'm you know it's always great to look at the those kind of things in in the -- infancy. But what really makes the industry go is engineers turning these things and products at affordable prices that. -- though the mass market people can get out here -- Biden enjoyed and that's what makes up packer great business. Is that we're always focused -- delivering you know better products to the consumer. And you know taking advantage of all the great talent that's out there."

" What we're almost out of time and I want to thank Stephen Baker from NPD ILE two always ask when you're working on next and before I leave you."

" you know we're just gonna get ready for the holiday now get ready we'll get Black Friday sales and I'm looking at some some sales numbers in terms of TDs in what kind of about things people -- would use right now. Knowing then getting ready you like I said for Black Friday and while the excitement data quality tends to generate."

" Great we'll Stephen thanks so much for joining us today we're Skype connection here at the top appreciate -- we'll have you back and soon thanks so much Steven cute way. Eric has the golf course from my business week what are you working on their next bite of the apple column. I don't know what it's about -- but -- some interesting stuff from apple soon as well as support is from popular mechanics -- It's been busy week for you so yeah we're either order to come -- to take a nap now I think we're still Terry got on this displacing. Yeah -- the big operation so good stuff over there from -- check out that this issue of popular mechanics for all the breakthrough awards great stuff you can check it out on line. What is the web -- for popular mechanics -- spark yeah very brilliant. And Brian heater for PC Mac when you're probably -- try to get over this cold."

" lying down and hydrating. Are hard to tell let's PC mag after hours -- are relatively new podcasts are going to be. Throwing a windows seven party this week on the show."

" Local yeah we're gonna try to do I hear that with the big windows seven boxing the party streamers yeah completes this in playing cards this -- cars as if it -- battled back absolutely. -- Well thanks to all of you for joining us on the show today thanks for everyone for weighing in on -- this afternoon and we have so much content here you can always download us on iTunes and Zune marketplace that -- saying and anywhere you can find podcasts it's -- gadgets and games on those Claymores thanks to all of our great guests today we will see you back here next Friday at 2 PM. -- see you tomorrow morning on FOX & Friends bright and early. At seven and reasonable."