The Journal Editorial Report: 8/29

" Up next Eric -- assault on the CIA. Will be administration lived to regret and what's actually in that supposedly explosive report on interrogations. We'll take a closer look across. Britain's -- outrage was the freeing of a convicted terrorist part of a deal for oil. And how high up did the decision dolls and then nine trillion dollar budget deficit why even bad forecast may be overly. Optimistic The Journal Editorial Report begins right now. And welcome to The Journal Editorial Report I'm Paul if you go."

" Attorney general Eric Holder named a special prosecutor this week to investigate allegations. Of CIA abuse against high level terror detainees. The appointment of federal prosecutor John Durham came the same day. As the release of a 2004 internal CIA report detailing that agency's interrogation program. So just what he is -- that once classified report income holder be starting a political war that President Obama. Will live to regret joining the panel this week Wall Street Journal columnist and deputy editor Bret Stephens. Columnist Mary Anastasia O'Grady Washington columnist -- Russell. And Brian Carney who joins us from London as the editorial page editor of The Wall Street Journal Europe all right -- you read these documents what's that. Less than you'd take away from it."

" Of the -- jumped all over this I think was some prodding from the administration suggesting that this is yet more proof of abuse of that at the hands and unleashed CIA. When you read these things what actually jumps out at you is that. This part that was actually carefully developed it was carefully controlled it was widely brief the congress and the yielded. In valuable results. --"

" Well I mean that I think that's the but that's the key point and Goodwill there is the sort of obsessive focus with a handful of instances. Where investigators potentially win over the line although it's important to note that when career Justice Department prosecutors looked at these. Cases for years ago they ruled that they did not merit."

" Interest in this is an internal CIA report that has only been released -- begun in 2004. And was shared with congress shared with congress and turned over to justice and career prosecutors did not prosecute except in one case of abuse where a detainee was killed. By being hit on the head apparently -- a flashlight that detainee was and that interrogator was prosecuted for assault and convict. And I mean I think that it and it's a key point to note that the people who looked into this we're career prosecutors this wasn't. The Bush Administration nor -- twenty's ruling against. The the bureaucracy of the Justice Department you know."

" All the other thing about this that jumps out besides the fact that the report says that -- Counterterrorism Center did a commendable job. In staying within but the rule of -- and interrogating these detainees detainees is that the common. Interrogators. Reported that they were quite concerned that they were going to be at a later date. Prosecuted in some ways they suspected that the US government was not gonna stand behind them even though they were following the rules and that's precisely what's about to happen."

" Yet they said it one of the quote was very telling us -- ten years from now we will regret this but it must be. Dot what are the other things is really interesting here Brian is the results. That are were relayed about how the information the very very useful information that they ended up Expos including plots to. Attacking US consulate in Karachi hijacked aircraft and fly them to Heathrow into Heathrow -- track spikes to derail US trains had any of -- several others had any of those happened."

" Of course it would have meant that death of innocent Americans. Right and and one of the the the lines that we hear over and over again -- that torture doesn't work torture is an effective now. Nothing detailed in this report -- X obviously except for the the one case that was prosecuted. Really looks like quote most people would think of us torture I think people get treated worse every day in in the the police stations in major cities around America. But the fact is these enhanced interrogation techniques do seem to have saved American lives exposed. Plots that could have been extremely deadly and that probably would've led to. A lot worse things being done. Two to even the detainees that we haven't try to stop this -- this is that this is a critical point because a lot of the critics of of what happened would say that there's no evidence here that enhanced interrogations made the difference that the detainees would've that would've told us would've given this information. Anyway. Is there something in the report that shows in fact that the enhanced interrogation techniques made difference. Rather reported very clear that people like like. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Where extremely resistant to questioning and gave up on reliable are very little information. Before the before the enhanced interrogation techniques were introduced I think there's no question. That they made a difference in the the material that was."

" It is here. All right Kim why would give an all of this why would air colder. The attorney general do this now because in the past he'd said look we don't wanna go after. Low levels CIA interrogators and the president himself has -- often I'll look forward not back and I know people in the White House there are people I don't think you know we really don't wanna pick this political fight so what changed."

" I don't know what change in mean there's three to yeah. Modes of thought here in either Eric Holder seems to really be of the ideological bent that this is something that needs to go back despite the fact -- we've mentioned that. Former -- every other career prosecutor said that there was nothing here. Either he's of the belief that actually something is this appears to view or it could be that -- this is a political move by the White House to try to appease their left wing they've been unhappy by the fact that the administration has retained some bush Eric counterterrorism policies. They're unhappy by the way health care is going right now the fact that the public option. May not make it into a final bill so this might have been sent out of them as a way to kind of pacify the troops but. If this doesn't it doesn't really work they have -- happy to be actually got a lot of criticism from their left that they hadn't gone further and in the meanwhile what they've done is. Israeli made Republicans even less likely wanna work with them on some of the stuff from Washington is."

" Is it possible that a naming a prosecutor like to -- administration intends would like just. He appeased the left went into the prosecutor. But the because -- says look there's nothing to prosecute and it goes away yet we have a thirty year for almost forty year history of special prosecutors who always turn out to be. Almost enough to surprise the administration's if that's if that's in fact. The of the strategy here seems to me the Obama administration's strategies pure and Djokovic Yogi Berra. You get to the fork in the road you take it they're trying to appease they're left -- left flank while while the president say. -- wants to -- we'll look forward not."

" And I said he has been in a lot of reports about how upset Leon Panetta is that CIA director that he didn't wanna do this he's been you know he's been. Time and time again when he's had a face up what they're colder air Calder has won."

" Yeah well again I mean I think Leon Panetta understands that you know we need some of these interrogation techniques if we're going to take on the Senate and I don't think he wants to be associated with some. With with a decision by by the president. That could have very long term costs in terms of the way we fight the war you know there's another thing going on here which is that the Democrats have always thought that we should fight the war. As a honoring the sort of a law enforcement problem right and that's kind of the path that they're going down now we're gonna litigate. All of these problems rather than than than fight the war on terror."

" How far we've come from posted 2011. World all right when we come back the UK's Lockerbie outrage was one of the deadliest terrorist attacks against Americans until September 11 at one of the men responsible is now free did the British government cut a deal with Libya. In return for lucrative oil contracts. And just how high up did the decision -- our panel investigates. After the break."

" Outrage is growing in the UK and the US over the hero's welcome given last week convicted Lockerbie bomber. Abdel basset Ali McGraw he upon his return home to Libya. He was released from a Scottish prison after serving just eight years of a 27 year minimum sentence. For the downing of pan am flight 103 in December of 1988270. People including a 189 Americans died. Now -- are mounting about the British government's claim that had no hand in the Scottish justice Ministry's decision. To release a grind who was apparently dying of prostate cancer. Well Brian you are in London this has become a full blown political uproar over there how credible is the claim. That -- he was released for humanitarian. Reasons. Well."

" I hit him. I don't think we know exactly why -- McCaskill release and yet this is what we do know though we know. Thank Gordon Brown talked to Moammar Qaddafi about the release six weeks ago he's the prime minister threatened. He's the prime minister of Britain we know that his his most important deputy Peter Mandelson discussed -- with Moammar Gadhafi son. Just a couple of weeks ago when they were vacationing together in Corfu and we know that Gordon Brown the prime minister new. Before Kenny McCaskill publicly announced that that McGrady was going to be released because Gordon Brown wrote a letter to Moammar Qaddafi. Pleading with him to keep the his McGray he's returned to Libya low key. Which was -- a request that the Libyans gave the back of the hand to. Which goes to show. What happens when you if you try to deal. There's not a we elsewhere and we are -- but we also know that today that -- that the Libyans really made my grind via priority in the private internal discussions and mentioned it with Mandelson. They have mentioned it -- others they wanted to release cracked. That's right -- son in fact said that the day after his release that in every negotiation. Over every. Contractor anything that came up between the Libyans and the British government that McGraw he was on the table that is what it. Let's cut off his son apparently told megrahi on the plane on the way to -- the plane that was waiting for him. Before his release even announce because the Libyans are so certain they were gonna get."

" In that OK and we know that there have been. -- contracts that London than to receive one recent 900 billion dollar oil contract Gordon Brown to have has talked -- his potential. 04 four British for British companies. The British spymaster who helped. Bringing in Moammar -- from the cold in 2003 when -- decided to. Abandoned his his nuclear weapons programs that man that that that a former intelligence and is now a senior executive. At BP so that Gordon Brown's claim. That the decision will belong to the Scottish Justice Minister. Alone and that that decision was based purely on so called compassionate grounds because he's the sensibly has. Is dying of prostate cancer is very hard to sustain and this is already government with almost no credibility."

" A couple of big uproar over this Robert Mueller the FBI director in the US has had sent a very very rough letters denouncing essentially. The decision and than the course of families of the victims also outraged here in the states."

" Right but I'm kind of wondering you know where was the US and all of this I mean does the state department's job is diplomacy we're supposed to have a relationship with the UK. The US is supposed to have some influence in the world. And I'm worried that the being the Obama administration has spent all three sources trying to force to go seek out to take give -- so I have back and forgot about the rest of the war the war this president of former president under -- CEO who you know that's their big issue this. And meanwhile you have some the link is developing -- and work work we're not even bear."

" Before the Johnny who is a writer often -- interest he thinks that -- wanted to make this statement welcoming back McGraw -- with such fanfare despite being warned about a by John McCain and the British. Because the fortieth anniversary of the Libyan revolution is coming up September 1 and he wanted a big domestic show what he could achieve on the world's yeah and in fact the British were were were prepared to -- I think Prince -- were one of the royal one of the royals. To celebrate what are they gonna celebrate the domestic butchery isn't in Libya -- the terrorism. The terrorism overseas Qaddafi is a master of robbing the west's nose in it. -- but -- but what -- we you know we did this deal with with with Libya in 2003 he he gave -- Qaddafi gave up its nuclear program. And and that was a big a big strategic victory he did that in the wake of the -- at the end the Iraq invasion. Probably because in part of the Iraqi invasion. Anyone it's something and returns I think the brown government would probably say look this is not that big -- deal McGraw he was gonna die in prison anyway and and and we need to engage the Libyans. Book."

" Mike -- he should've died in prison that -- didn't do the deal over his nuclear weapons because you know he'd suddenly become a eight. Trustworthy and and and terrific guy right you've hit it because he was afraid. After Iraq what would happen to him if he didn't and what we saw in the way that they treated. Gordon Brown's request to at least be discreet about this right I mean -- and say. Hasn't said anything about the substance of the decision even to this day all he said let's say he was repulsed by. The reception that that McGraw he received in Libya and what we saw with that. Libya hasn't changed its spots right it did the nuclear deal because it feared the consequences of not doing it. But here they clearly saw no downside. In. Getting this -- back and then robbing them."

" British cannon and a big embarrassment his face some big embarrassment for Gordon Brown all right still has the nine trillion dollar deficit thousand. No matter. Our panel weighs in. After the break."

" The end of the -- the best way to bring our deficit down in the long run. Does not with a budget the continues the very same policies that have led us to a narrow prosperity and massive debt. It's with a budget that leads to broad economic growth. By moving from an Arab borrow and spend 21 more we save and invest. --"

" Number that -- now reality struck this week when the Obama White House and Congressional Budget Office both announced that the deficit. Over the next decade will balloon to more than nine trillion dollars. Two trillion dollars more than predicted earlier this year and even those revised projections for projections are probably. Optimistic an area trillion dollars here trillion I think for most people just becomes an abstraction by -- what do these deficits really mean economic well."

" You know 22 when you have a deficit you have to issued debt. In order to you know get the money. At ten dot what they Congressional Budget Office is said is that the that the amount of debt that the government is going to have to issue is unsustainable. You know you you have to find somebody who'll buy your debt and give -- that money and you have to service the debt eventually have to repay it so you know this isn't money for not thank. There they have to come from somewhere and it's not just."

" I think -- are going to be look we need to run these deficits -- might inherited by the trillion haven't and and besides we have big recession we needed to run these deficits because they've helped to stimulate the economy and get us back on track and only temporary."

" Yet will generally that's wit wit you would hope that that you have a deficit but you start growing and if you grow fast enough you then can pay down what you well. But the problem is that the projections for growth don't look real good and part of the reason is because once that the debt gets to a certain level. Politicians started stepping in -- hot we've. A problem more we got enough money. We need to raise taxes once you start raising taxes you killed -- growth. And if you do that you're you're not gonna get get out of the problem that's why some countries and -- either going into default. Or they end up having to print money at the Central Bank that are paying --"

" Monstrous deficit projections are. Are based on estimates of congressional spending which are just wildly unrealistic but there's the suggestion by Peter Orszag and his group -- is a white house budget your budget director is that congress is going to spend basically increased spending at the justice."

" And this is on the congress you've come to know and love -- it will controlled spending like that Bredesen is that what you're saying I think you how dare you accuse those congress people of that yeah you've answered the half. Ambassador to question their Paul and the other figures you know what I find interesting Matthews I'm trying to imitate Chris Matthews -- my own quest is the same old."

" Obama supporters who said the recent especially conservative Obama supporters who went on for years saying the reason we oppose Bush's he's grown these monstrous budget deficits is that spending get out of control. Are nowhere to be heard from now that -- that Obama is creating nine trillion dollars of debt over the next."

" All right Kim what is right what bush was go ahead Brian side. Bush was criticized her for doubling. The national debt and this these latest projections say that that Obama is going to more than double the national debt. Again and he's going to do it in half the time and as you say that -- The reality is likely to be worse than that. This is not temporary -- nine trillion dollars of new debt is forever because we either have to pay that offer we have to continue borrowing it forever and pay the interest on it. With tax dollars for ever are right after nine trillion dollars in that it."

" Yeah all right Kim any evidence at all that this is beginning to sink and on Capitol Hill -- that they're gonna slow down their spending one just one figure. Is spending this year as a share of the economy will be 26%. The average over the last forty years is only 21%. So that's a very very big change."

" Look I think in its thinking and thinking and a town halls you see across America on health care and that. You know this is affirming the Obama administration Packers didn't think about they spent. Curry easily at the beginning of the year and as a result they put these deficit numbers in the middle of their health care debate with everyone saying can we really afford to do this just right -- and they're beginning to hear even some democratic senators and congressman saying this is going to be too costly maybe we need to put this off. Bit but in terms of evidence of that they think most of congress slowdown now you don't see you at any or higher."

" I hear Kim saying is silver lining department it may end -- this that the deficits may end up defeating. At least in a very very expensive health care program that's true that's true and and we should sell for his hat but I think we have to come back to the idea growth."

" When is this economy and start growing again. Because that is so important for the job growth and also to deal with the problem that the Federal Reserve has created the Federal Reserve. Is pumping out a lot of money and if if we answer to growl. They don't have any bullets left in the chamber to. For for the economy right by T bills."

" Somebody asked -- we have to take one more break when we come back our hits and misses of the week."

" Time now for hits and misses of the week -- well."

" The Spiegel pitcher of the week is obviously Ted Kennedy but I want to call attention to another educational innovator who who passed away recently Stanley Caplan. You're familiar with his last name because he probably -- from his courses -- or his or his books. He founded a multimillion dollar company really sort of out of literally out of his side garage. And became a great philanthropist and in his old age but he's evidence of what the private sector can do to improve standards and improve education for the good students of."

" Also there -- I'm giving a hit to Jose Hernandez the first Mexican American to -- beyond at a mission specialist on the space shuttle. He was born in French camp California of my trip cubism a migrant workers -- child assembly as migrant workers. He did not learn English -- was twelve years old. And I would note that he did not get put into a bilingual English program when he was twelve years old he went into a regular American school he learned English. And he's now the pride Mexico. --"

" Is -- for New York representative. Charlie Rangel who amended his 2007 financial disclosure -- this week. Turns out mr. Rangel just found the loops that he has about 600000. Dollars worth of assets from. Mutual funds to -- raised to pieces of property. -- I have this -- as it doesn't have a head they have ways and means committee. Handles bookkeeping maybe it's no surprise we got a nine trillion dollar deficit."

" All right Jim thanks finally tonight remembering Ted Kennedy much has been said this week about the senator's achievements in 47 years in that body but perhaps the larger lesson of his careers at. True believers. Matter most in politics Kennedy believed in the power of the state to spread wealth and mold human behavior I don't. Share those principles but there's no denying that Kennedy's passion for his beliefs and the key anyway he promoted them yes as a partisan he sometimes slipped into demagoguery as he did in 1987 against Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork. But he did succeed in protecting and expanding the power of the federal government even when it fell into disfavor he knew how to compromise. But nearly always on his terms there's a lesson in this for politicians who find themselves in opposition. Not least Republicans at the current moment the politicians who change the world. Are those who believe in something and are willing to fight for our condolences to the Kennedy family. That's it for us thanks to my panel and to all of you for watching. I'm apology go and we hope to see you right here. Next."