High-Stakes Mission

" I would think one would be joyous at the release. Of you know Lee and Laura laying you know feel that way."

" now I'm very happy that they're released I think we all should be antecedents spared from. The potential of twelve years at hard labor which is their sentence from that stalinists that show trial. But I think like -- like anything else -- and does not justify the means and whenever you're engaged in negotiating with terrorist which is basically what we were doing here. He wanted to obtain the results without endangering other Americans and other circumstances down the road and I'm very concerned that the appearance of former President Clinton his ideas not just the Kim Jong -- But -- other. Dictators around the world about how to leverage legitimacy the United States in exchange for released --"

" So if there -- you you would not have approved of this mission."

" I would not have done it this way and I just put the question back -- Kim Jong Il asking price had been to build North Korean nuclear reactor would you have done that."

" Probably not but I don't think there's anywhere near what the truth is I mean other than and I'm sure you know I just I just try to -- yeah I mean I'm saying you're."

" there is a limit to what we should do to get people laugh and I didn't think yeah there's an important point here. About the lesson that you teach. Would be hostage takers they if they think that they can benefit from taking hostages the market and hostage taking will rise and that's a real concern here."

" I understand your point -- well taken point where is that line beyond which you will not -- crossed. But of all Bill Clinton did this might not so sit well with -- was apologized. To North Korea and said we're sorry for the behavior of these to journalists which looks like that's what he said and nothing beyond that. Isn't that a small price to pay for their relates."

" you I think you're you're measuring. The wrong metric you're measuring only the outcome in this particular case and I say again just so there's no. Confusion that I'm very happy the two hostages have been released. But the potential consequences for others I think is great let's just take the case. That we happen to have unfortunately occurring simultaneously at the three backpackers. Who somehow wandered out of Kurdish Iraq into -- they've now been. Taken into custody by Iran and security forces and at least according to some press reports that a -- Iran the government -- accusing them being. CIA agent you can bet that the authorities in Tehran have watched very carefully those pictures of Clinton and Kim Jong -- they've seen the smile on Kim Jong Il space and they draw on the appropriate --"

" So what would what would president or ambassador John Bolton do -- store up to you. To gain these are women really forwarded it."

" Well I actually thought that secretary of state Clinton had had put the issue quite well when she said look release of these people. Is a matter humanitarian concern should not be linked to the nuclear weapons program I had reconcile myself. -- saying governor Bill Richardson or perhaps even Al Gore who who although former vice president was also the employer to reporters. -- That we've seen this we've seen analogous -- visits by Jesse Jackson I don't find that very pleasant I don't like that cost but in the big picture. It's a lot different than a former pres."

" Say your -- United States and I Kim -- sends a message if you send former President Clinton Wheeler release these to journalists do you not do it."

" I would not bet and that may well have been the message that he sent I would have gone to the Chinese and I -- said this -- a matter of the highest priority between us bilaterally. You'd tell that guy in Pyongyang that he needs to release them if he's ever going to get there any possible Trade Minister responsible. Leader."

" And they come back and say that's too airy fairy don't really know what that means you send Bill Clinton will release the -- the women."

" I wouldn't do it because I think even though it gets the immediate objective of releasing these two people and I fully concur it's an important objective. If you put more Americans in danger because of this. I think you leave -- worse off this is -- for decades we have said as a matter. Bipartisan foreign policy we don't negotiate with terrorists and that's the way the North Korean."

" I think Eric country they're not a cell they're actually a country there are sovereign nation you calling them terrorist."

" what they've done -- that they have a pattern of doing this they have abducted over the decades. Doesn't just South Koreans. The twenty -- 25 Japanese citizen. And they've never been called to account for it if we enable that behavior if we convince them that if they raise the price enough will event. I'm very worried we're gonna be others put in the same situation."

" do you know that that they didn't say okay you send Bill Clinton will release the journalist. And in addition we will be open to talking to you about reducing our nuclear capability so there's more in it for the United States and we currently know is that a possibility."

" It is a possibility but -- that they are always open to talking to the United States about reducing their nuclear capability they'd love to talk about -- in fact. They go beyond talking about it four times in the last twenty years they've committed to give up --"

" Ready no other commitments weren't made along with the release of the link in --"

" If that turns out to be true I'd be happy to revise my remarks but I have. It may be careful study of town North Korea negotiate and I seen enough about how the Obama administration and the State Department negotiate. To have a pretty clear idea what was what was up on this one."

" Do you think George W. Bush would have done anything different."

" You know I don't know the answer to that I would hope it would not but it you never can tell."

" So you I mean argued an -- position on one hand you don't like the way it happened yet you're happy they released. Would you rather see the new twelve years of hard labor -- okay we're sorry we'll send Bill Clinton and then everybody will move on from there."

" I think it's not a question movies on there -- that that's why your analysis is to truncated you cannot contemplate. The release of these individuals alone if that's all there were. Then Bill Clinton could go twice the Pyongyang as far as I'm concerned it's the longer range effect. The implications the signal it sends not just in North Korea but to Iran and dictatorial regimes around the world."

" And in closing your belief is this will have negative long range effect."

" I believe on balance it will and I. I think that's unfortunate but I think that's what that's what you get when you negotiate with terrorists."

" Ambassador appreciate your time as always thanks for coming on -- user."