Gadgets and Games 7/31

" Hey good afternoon everyone it is Friday this is your gadgets and games our this is a big -- show I'm -- more -- your -- on this Friday afternoon welcome back of course last week we try to go live from the floor comic con 2009 and we have some technical difficulties so we have some of the pieces of course we shot. With some of the gamers out there and some of the developers will run some of those pieces for this hour. We had a lot of fun out there so we'll run down that stuff for you I just sent out between -- in the chat room live here on the show you join the conversation let us know just thinking about this afternoon commenting about all the stuff in the stories we're talking about. Also I'm Clayton Morris on -- given your responses there. And we'll be reading your emails as well Kevin you can throw that up there on the big screen there it is measurement foxnews.com we are alive and as always if you missed any of this. Download the full video podcast on iTunes. In the iTunes stores a full hour. All right without further ado let me -- do my guests sitting to my right first time here on the big show. Eric has hassle bail he is the technology writer for business week magazine you know what you love it. When my favorite magazines by the way and I am I pronouncing it correctly. -- all hustle what is that German. Swedish Danish. Too heavily -- as it. It's damage is out here and second and such as Seagate of course sitting to his right he's the lead analyst for mobile phones -- PC magazine we're going to be talking about a few mobile phones that are in the market. August 5 is that might touch three G. Sasha so we're gonna be shown to soften. Talk about this coming up as well. And you also brought some props yes look at this place yet and his new column checking out from PC mag dot com he's written great depth article on apple TV as well. Also Michael Garten -- you don't you love them. He is a VP of strategy analysis that interpret LLC is joining us via Skype and he's only what two miles away but we had to have Skype in and Michael. -- From that I think from a business perspective. Business perspective I was -- to that -- Islet -- if you're joining via Skype this afternoon what do you think of the Microsoft Yahoo! deal. Ballmer a little surprised that stock the stock didn't respond the way he thought it would as a result of this gigantic merger what do you think about this. Well."

" You know it's a good deal for Microsoft it's uncertain what it means for Yahoo!. And get the answers the question is what -- you get when you -- Microsoft and Yahoo! get Microsoft so I think the market is already factored this into the equation out what's gonna happen here. And there's a lot of integration issues and how this thing is gonna work you've got Google folks down. In California I'm sorry -- young folks California Microsoft up in Seattle so this is by no means a slam dunk but it's something the industry has been waiting for and know the marriages violent consummated."

" America's finally consummated here we think what. From a consumer perspective what do we gain from this deal I think a lot more to be exposed -- you being experienced. There. Pass out now who are going back -- who was primaries search right now the way people search back in the nineties. Late -- news. That we've heard about Google and so it's like yeah I'm just giving up. Is that the thing -- returning Yahoo! for news anymore we turn to it as a portal fought and we don't really -- to to search anymore we turn to it as a --"

" For news on the little confused as to what exactly -- now what aren't very confused me and I think they're confused him. Yeah -- get this collection of web services that it sort of accumulated like how to Mario over time you know rolling rolling through the town accumulating objects. And they've gotten mail all that -- but it caring. They've got searched at -- that threat and now says it said okay we're not our core property it's -- anymore instead where a bunch of web services services that compete with army partner Microsoft to also offers the services. I'm really unclear as to what Yahoo!'s I can't hear maker sales proposition is that."

" I after agreeing I was going through -- so many different thing something different times. Not necessarily. Agree well. The right. But given -- given where they are right now and remember this is Carol's problem if she's carrying -- legacy baggage from -- the company was run near Fresno Carol Bartz of course cal running. Yeah Yahoo! came and there are sort of a ball buster I think it's safe to say. Rates -- her job is trying to sort out the mess that she was a our military symbol on and company and the first thing you do is figure out your core competencies and those are related services. And the integrated search. Is gonna help them -- it's gonna help Microsoft is well and more importantly. Is the case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend but the problem with this type merger is if you're gonna marry someone who married him because you're in not because that's who we share common enemy."

" I like this -- just came in from at persona she says my home page is set to Yahoo! -- do I want to do a search -- go to Google can't explain it but Yahoo! needs help. My my home page is set to Yahoo! -- so I can't explain it. I just like the splash page of news takes me deeper into some of the stories that are obviously some of the hot topics of the day. Kind of having it on depends on the PCI have a depends on the Mac and using but that happens to be my home page with your homepage."

" Lately it's been Google but the guy -- them one for years here's here's field my Yahoo! service right it's still have a round was. My home page for yours yours yours and customize it. But all the little bits of news or ones that you know lessons I I care less about what my home pages these days because it and go where anything goes."

" Final thought on this topic -- if you're gonna marry someone who married them like what what really begun on this weird kind of -- Amorim where -- it says. Well this part of -- Microsoft but this part of me it's still single and other apartment he has on the market. And -- Microsoft merger weird today you know get the best of both sets of services and and produce that at a powerful Whitney juggernaut. Might make sense that this just seems like I can use. Personal commitment. Well."

" You gotta suck -- your right remember one thing Microsoft got what it wanted out of marriage it want it got a search deal. -- address this -- at Grady Little interest in its got its own set of services it would record integration. --"

" on big -- Pedro writes on the chat -- assisting me -- so -- relative relevant I don't care what they do with Microsoft guest nodded yes and -- same here -- go to Yahoo! is for fantasy football and NCAA brackets. Which brings up a good point from a finance -- perspective to you know Yahoo! does a fantastic Yahoo! finance there's some really great need -- things -- But there's a lot of the week goes on reported half the time we don't even know that it exists there and guys -- really hard times servicing surfacing a lock for the services via. Say that ten times you you wrote an interesting article this week in business week check it out and which Eric sort of I think laments the death of BI."

" Odd when you would electric would you like to take it to an iPod it's not your audience again that I find is it actually dead it might actually -- Tell us about your column wife thought what TV iPod might be dead well. It's basically what we. It's not. Dead per say it's what we considered via. Yeah. If you listen earnings call last week brother Peter Oppenheimer talk about pocket products that would be pocket product the iPod -- pocket. But -- well. And what's gonna happen is -- think. You know this is done sort of legacy on this particular one me go way be it even next year. But all the research and development effort what we call on the -- devices that are related to the but -- is essentially for those who don't know. -- Those -- and combined installed base that all of -- parts of the iPhone without policy team he's the one that a -- you know and so. You know economics I called on. There are few things you point."

" It out the article -- or roundtable this and Michael throw it to you first -- one of the things that's missing is a proper microphone put upon proper microphone in the iPod touch. Then you can make Skype calls when you need an iPhone for. Well you know you can make Skype calls it can't receive Skype calls as the application is running doesn't run in the background did you need a network connection. I mean there's a lot that the iPod touch brings for people who don't want an iPhone with the phone. But that doesn't mean the iPod is dead and certainly the form factors -- still users who we're gonna want the biggest capacity and all they care Edison media player they don't care doubt Al. Applications or the other architectures. There's consumers' are gonna be looking good price and it means an -- on the show we're still going to be in the price range. But I do -- strategically. The whole mobile OS-X warm -- what Apple's spitting very very heavily on. We're gonna see a lot of refinements they can touch come all and probably modest in any -- is -- the -- product line. But I don't think it yet."

" That's that's -- reaction is Michael brings up a very important point OS and installed base on mobile rate is 45 million devices you've -- iphones plus you do the math and you forget how many iPod touch is there. 45 million that's a pretty strong installed base and it's very very flexible. But the most important thing that apple didn't create via phone was created -- that it. Version of OS-X they could put it in. A phone they can -- it and a touch they put it in this whole thing right here AppleTV they can put it in a toaster they could put it in a refrigerator that we're I think you'll likely see it. Is and Michael I have debated this back and forth a little bit. You may see some kind of a larger tablet type device that -- it but the point is the platform is there an extremely flexible can go work ever apple know what you what you say --"

" The microphone on the iPod touch -- it seems like in at this that's a little bit let's barrage of a strong argument there because. We all know why the iPod that doesn't have a microphone it's because apple specifically doesn't want it to cannibalize iPhone sales. Apple is hyper aware of the threat of cannibalization of their products by their other products one of the reasons they happened. One of many reasons they haven't put out a tablet like being yet as they wanna make carry it -- is neither the touches nor -- there Mac books. So when they put the -- they drew a line in the sand and Wright said you're not gonna make phone calls on this because if you wanna make phone calls you have to buy its other product."

" Right and here you get a different device that has higher capacity and admits it very clear if you want 32 gigabytes back when the iPod touch ruled out you have to buy an iPod touch not gonna get that from the -- you need to have both devices if you wanna try to have all of your music on one device."

" Right apple about the relatively few items in their product line that are clearly differentiated and not as they did in the -- say fifteen things and now are yeah. Are -- there differentiated products but apple does you buy an iPod touch is -- an iPhone they're perfectly happy as well. And I grew -- I think we're gonna see -- microphone and iPod touch on the ball we might see better camera. Armed India I phone has a -- camera on the iPod touch put video recording on -- me even high definition. And all the sudden you have a device that's not only competitive game -- But now it's competitive to things like digital cameras and things like the flip video camera so -- these devices work in different directions were there optimize war. But the key is they're already missing out -- but we're gonna I million strong."

" 45 million showing actually -- you bring up a great point about high Def because as we all know the biggest competitor is the Zune. So that we know about the Zune HD this fall which could I mean that's just gonna wipe the iPod touch off the net yep yep I've I think they're quicken that we. I'll you know. Yeah I'll throw this out their and its governments would it is anyone in our audience we know that what to -- only what 2% of the market share of the Zune and -- corn ball this we say they're not going anywhere with it. And obviously they're not not really addressing it but of course if they have opened up a Microsoft store. We know that that's going to be part of it we know that the Zune HD is coming so this is not going away even -- their sales are not what they did well Microsoft's story arc with. -- I guess and you know they don't they don't have any PCs to speak of so what are they gonna do it even be showcasing -- us."

" I I don't know any minute a lot of software for instance their Microsoft has against that can I think you a lot of business in where April's mice and keyboards. They could have some prefer it PC partners to set up with paper frozen mice keyboards and windows you know. Absolutely are and you know delegate -- somebody participates. Two. Well repeatedly -- stuff out so build."

" Doesn't that we -- talent but what could be looked. You think about it what they'll do -- the worker EC partisans agent -- in the store we want the very best of your PCs that are out there we want the ones that aren't coming with all of the crap -- on it we want the ones that really showcase designed. If you wanna be part of this experience you've got to raise the border are standards. I won't open it up to every once you'll probably see stuff there from Sony HT -- confirmed on the retail side but it's gonna be the cream of the crop Microsoft can't afford to have mediocre experience in the store. Anything that show -- it's gotta be best of breed."

" So we now know that there are confirmed obviously two locations which we know. It was a Mission Hills. In one in. One in Texas. Course at least according to CNET to two reported location so far that we know where these are gonna chill -- get this right here."

" Yeah off on Friday through my notes here -- to locations anyway but what we do know we saw some of the early leaks of what these stores will look like and Microsoft did confirm after they -- then release of England is -- them up first. What the stores are gonna look like. And it looks strikingly similar to the apple store I mean almost to the point of it being. You know -- we know that there may -- be surprised yeah I mean but not only -- locations going to be near apple stores. And maybe even hired the real estate expert from apple to go and put where they figured he's source will do so well which is also there but it rolled out -- guru bar. But the state we still sitting at a locked in named guru bar genius bar. And they're gonna have surfaced displays in the stores and presumably you can walk up in a client for sure and -- stores. And surface of course is the big table product which we thought would roll out they have an opportunity in fact even to use. You know in news divisions and so forth but what sort of practical consumer aspect to the surface ever provide I don't know I mean I'm not there."

" This was never intended to be consumer product sending to their credit it was always introduced as a beating -- product. That was supposed to revolutionize the way retail stores work the way. Various consumer facing businesses work but no actually individual it last year you know a superstar with a gigantic home what's ever expected to bias there I."

" I always thought would be understand have a surface and a restaurant you could actually print. And then use it right order directly on -- table of what that was one of the -- its targets sport but stores -- opportunity we're -- it's these people -- can learn productive from Windows Mobile devices they can learned a different PCs that are out there. On baking interact with their own devices on the table so I mean that's a Microsoft source natural showcase for circus and more importantly. -- one thing you're not gonna see an apple story time soon I'm pretty confident about this Microsoft circus."

" That's probably you're probably right about that I love this though in not PC world. Co wrote the ten things that I can find this again the ten things you'll find you're likely to find there are different from apple store. Number one instead of Apple's sheer walls of glass Microsoft stores will have brushed steel walls dotted with holes reminiscent of windows security. -- number two of the store we'll have six different entrances the starter entrance the basic entrance the premium professional enterprise in the ultimate entrants are -- obviously referring to all of the different pricing tiers for windows. Onset of the genius bar Microsoft will offer an excuse bar. For the windows genuine advantage team won't run storefront security assuming everybody is a -- Until they can prove otherwise number five store hours are undetermined anything in any any given time the storm mysteriously shut down instantaneously for no apparent reason. -- number six stores will be named Microsoft live retail store with PC services for digital lifestyle enthusiasts. -- The occupation mission. An admission fee to get it yet seven fashioned after Microsoft's user account control in this sales personnel asked you whether you're positive you want to purchase something at least twice. At number eight Xbox-360. Section of the store will be organized in a ring which will inexplicably go red occasionally. An overnight DreamWorks will design experience working park right called the blue screen of death and finally -- store emergency exits will be unlocked at all times of people -- anytime they want. If the front doors are locked. So option towards acquired them."

" Think that I think it's funny but it's really really necessarily -- It's. It -- yes Microsoft deserves some criticism but at the apple. Doesn't yet some similar valid criticism that's because their products are so cool. Over and we're about to get to some criticism or just don't don't don't you worry your pretty little head here but but let's talk about these stores which they've tried this before it didn't work. So when I go into the mall I stand at a Sony style store. And there's no one in that store. And I walked out of the apple store and you cannot get in there because so crowded what's the difference the difference is that the difference is that the apple stores are. One of the you know the me here retail outlet for protesting apple products that at. Microsoft does not necessarily in Michael tell me if I'm wrong and I both Microsoft does not necessarily expect to sell a gigantic percentage of their products through these doors. These stories are her brand awareness -- support marketing. Communicate and with apple. It's relatively few places to buy apple products and a on this on purpose that they want to control the retail experience. Everybody's buying apple products that as an on line is going to an apple -- my children to best -- but anyone around the apple -- it didn't we just get these numbers from the apple store on Fifth -- obviously it's reflection -- the -- everything -- and we hear what was the ridiculous number that we heard -- of the 250 million dollars of course of course apple stores do well because apple products sold in relatively few brick and mortar locations -- they are -- at best -- pixel so that nobody notices. --"

" If that's the reason out. Apple got into the retail business not because he wanted to it because it had no choice at and they said if you're getting into the retail business and retail experience had to be cut up. You go into an apple store -- the experience is much more akin to shopping at Nordstrom than it is to shopping at Kmart it is a premium shopping experience and it's resonating extremely well consumers and people can buy these products online they're going to stores because -- stores are -- intelligent people they show the products list typically going to a Sony store you see -- product senior receiver products integrated together you don't have the same degree of knowledge that salespeople have. And part of the differences every employee and an apple store isn't apple employee they've got an apple ads are what makes a huge different."

" I would love to go to and Microsoft store and be able to try -- project Mittal and I would love I mean what better way to show off the showcase that kind of the technology next year than the -- be fully -- and I think that's the purpose of the Microsoft stores -- to get you excited about Microsoft technologies. Not necessarily to execute all of this final sales of Microsoft products and store."

" The problem is micro so gonna have to figure out what they wanna do in those stores. Are these showcase stores are -- cells stores and it's very easy for them to mess this up in the problem that the -- is once again this doesn't feel like Microsoft being Microsoft this feels like Microsoft being -- apple and the best thing that Steve Ballmer could -- companies stop trying to be apple and Microsoft being Microsoft and do the things that Redmond does best yeah."

" I've always to. Now why is Microsoft on the phone lines are. -- you know video. Music while they might even have. Right -- because they wanna play and that they wanted to place events here now we've lost Michael Michael back here second. Let's talk about the Mike -- three G while we have been out here and we can talk about this release on. The fifth of August the nicest box yes you efforts incomes and now this might be the nicest part of it. Now. I'm boxing the on boxing here. This of course is. The three G from my touch. In my test treaty from T-Mobile. Power with powered by Google of course when asked the question what does it do differently and the G1 which we saw released what October. Com has a touch screen of course if you want also has that. The G1 also has it's a stream this does not however have a keyboard this is -- line in a nicer case that the ports snapped off and Microsoft Exchange. It's a slightly faster now it's the same state. Where you don't appear there ago are. Slightly thinner than the iPhone -- definitely. The touch screen I thought was it was really nice when I had a chance to play that few weeks ago really nice and I've been using it all week. Call quality fine I mean what are we what we buy this phone."

" That's a really tough call -- and it you buy this phone because you want something that looks vaguely like an iPhone what you want T-Mobile right. This isn't a huge advance over the -- one as I said it's basically it'd be one of the keyboard snapped off. But -- T-Mobile is trying to create this retail experience around it with a fancy box with a customized backs with different colors. There was asserted that came out recently it's that 60% of cell phone buyers who buy their phone based on size speed and collar. Okay and bill -- are the Smartphone buyers -- going to be going for this they want a smart phone that looks nicer than the G1 which looked a little one game."

" Yes and you know one of the other things this is the act act which is. But they're going to be rolling out so they don't have a really solid app store yet they don't actually do the import market has more than 6000 applications to 6000 now 6000 lesbian market is extremely difficult to happy but that's my point there's not -- it's it's amorphous it's it's like an -- puts its not easy to navigate it's not easy to get through so what they're doing is they're coming -- and at -- highlighting some of the third party apps that they. That daylight that they want you'd have know about on the device and I'm sure. But you you know which we and we talked about -- before but this is a a marketplace it's almost like what pandora in a way it's sort of learning what you like it sort of figuring out which you where you go what apps you're using on a regular basis. And they've really pushed this -- at the launch event on the sure a pack there's."

" There's a ton of these central central location apps out there right now the only real advance -- here is that this is the one T-Mobile is clicking. And given that -- location apps are entirely dependent on how many people are using them. This will make it more successful than the other end right ones because T-Mobile is what."

" It but the problem with the you know. Hold my touches reported seeing the successor called hero I HTC's already said they're bringing it to the US arm and unfortunately. It makes the my touch look very very -- by comparison that they would be here and opera a couple of hours this morning. And it's just totally blows away. You know the whole -- such experience. As ACC spent so much -- finishing off the stuff that Google left unfinished life -- between this morning where you thought that this was the the big hero was the first complete android device. That -- absolutely run out by and so how does that hold up to the might touch. It doesn't hold up well you know here is scuffle exchange supports not just my email my calendar and my contacts. On HTC is kind of skin every aspect of the device right so the UI looks beautiful looks like something out. Apple would reduce the handset itself has things like a three and a half in each millimeter headphone Jack second look in any old headphones music as a music player except they've built that. Except for the fact that T-Mobile has confirmed that the hero will not be on T-Mobile so it won't be on T-Mobile is gonna be in the US is so. The problem is -- constantly it comes in the US unless you're a dedicated team global customer that just aren't that many of them it doesn't appear that the my touch is gonna be something that's gonna lord people from other networks and if you are in the market for next generation android. Well maybe that's gonna be more compelling than the choices Timo is a network it's kind of puzzling -- T-Mobile went with the might such. When they have to have -- the Euro was coming."

" You know as saying this is same -- interface to San designed with a what curve bottoms so reporting on the chat room yes that's true it -- bottom. But it doesn't -- changing -- fields who did the G1 hand we flipped -- top apparently could -- like the rubber bands attached to -- the inside out which -- totally bothered me from me from the user experience three point two megapixel camera. Again available August 5 if you wanna run down pick it up. -- a column on that you."

" Yep we have we have a full review up on PC mag dot com and it's a pretty good review but as I mean as Michael says that problem with the might cut is not with the -- touch is that it's that we know about the better thing that's."

" Coming next all right. Well we also know about the better things that came before it which is why this is an -- if you just took this is what I was talking with someone the other day about it you just took the -- attachments and -- that's a -- phone absolutely it's a good phone but. If if these other phones didn't exist if the iPhone the palm pre in the hero didn't exist. It's a great phone -- if we stated some sort of -- Soviet country where it might cut a well but government allows us it wouldn't be too that right and if it wasn't that pesky I thought they we will be using soon but you know within the all right an interview that's the breaking news you can you share that -- just before this."

" Yeah yeah my -- go ahead the at the black hat conference yesterday there was there was some discussion about an iPhone vulnerability -- infected affected not only. Right android phones of Microsoft phone as well. And had to do with SMS messaging since phones don't have a choice have to accept a message they have process and it and it. There was -- I mean Charlie Miller. Developing. Security vulnerabilities are found security vulnerability in the iPhone in hand hurt him so -- Windows Mobile."

" Where if I texted you yet with just one character. Yet detect them but -- well times but only last year's. One appears. And that -- the phone whose fuse state. At which point you can you can attack from buy it. Now where. They controlled. At. So breaking news is that apple called moments before. They should fix. Appreciate. -- Well. It's free software update that so it's it's available now. I was there that was unclear telling me be available very soon. I'm on check and I it is very it's it's. Actually. For expert talk about a month ago. And it for a month -- the right to apple and got no response. So. That -- bond but actor who actually Charlie told me very clearly said he talked to the product managers via -- product managers security at Apple. And of course he says they're smart guys. And so just because they didn't necessarily saying. In early -- And so apple keep plays its cards very close about the something."

" The reason I -- let's be clear this vulnerability that affects every GSM phone that can you text messaging you know it's gotten a lot of press is an iPhone vulnerability. This is a flaw in the GSM text messaging protocol -- which the iPhone implements its across the board and it's not something that apple look. They were -- following the protocol that has been existing offer I don't know what."

" Years -- and Charlie told me that that there is a very simple fix that he was graver problem making me not that being said. You know I can tell AT&T here for that matter team mobile how to fix this it's just a matter of watching for the right kind of messages spoken out so well you know got overblown as an iPhone vulnerability but it is the fact that every."

" Right and another press is talking about because anytime there's an opportunity for something like that sensationalize for it to be killed you know to take over phones on a massive level people get fired up about it. It engadget has confirmed here as well it is up. And now available on the iTunes store three point oh point one is the release. It is fixes that and it SMS vulnerability. And according to the download here it's 280 megabytes. So. It's not a light sweet little six additional well it's it."

" Updating mobile operating get a fix itself is slightly right but they send him basically a whole copy of the operating system -- the same as the last one was like 270. Yet. Yeah so okay. That makes sense yeah I'd throw it over that this is something that even had it been out awhile for awhile it was very sophisticated. Complex and the purple. Exploit. Yeah so go to the iTunes store if you're worried about this right now you can download the update if you got an iPhone. And it got Google Android phone badly the most recent that it is all that out yet if they fixed it Microsoft told me they have fixed it in there latest version and it's well no actually say that they were working on it. They were investigating it and then if you become compromised. They advise calling your nation's law enforcement. A Obama by the a couple of my bite of the apple blog business week dot com you can look for the coming."

" Here let's take a little pause here and that Kevin I've got down this photo of this this new technology this is our lighter moment for us to regroup here on Islam some my favorite technology that we could -- you know it's summer it's -- little slower. And their country in all of this. German company has invented a marvelous new -- and we talk about gadgets we talked my games now this bikini is the ultimate revenge between. And what you do is you give it to someone you don't like anymore someone perhaps you've broken up with someone you don't presumably a woman. That you give it to the best part about the beat Tito is once that woman hits the water dissolves within five seconds the entire team and he. Its entire bikini dissolves completely in water you could order now its down. You can take it out on spike I love new technology like this and I think there's a lot of people that would probably find some use for this will revenge. Here at Snyder and that -- only eye toward his earlier and then it got hot and I wanted dissolved off my body. Let's re engage in these lawsuits but I. This bikini self destructed by second. Art let's talk about the -- Michael I'm going back and forth on this week of course which is the tablet of course everyone's going back and forth on this this week the alleged. The alleged apple tablet exists it exists you think it exists it exists all right so Eric is on the record saying it exists no access we've report right this isn't. The one of the pictures floating around out there. And apple tablet stuff. Oh yeah absolutely but you know there's overall Photoshop at this point sitting and it doc. Com you know. With with an I -- camera on the top of it about ten inches. Ten inches long about the size of a netbook. Michael fire away what you think about this."

" It out. This -- been around for -- and down you know I'm I'm gonna say I'm skeptical or at least I'm skeptical that anything close Corning was reporting on. You know there was a lot of rumors that Apple's gonna do flash player known was predicting they were gonna do the iPod nano. There was a lot of predictions that Apple's gonna do a phone that there was no. The sentiment at all no -- was calling for the iPhone is a products and blowing like to do is reject you know our perceptions that things we know on the unknown. And that's why we're getting -- that this is gonna be somehow big iPod touch ten inch screen if that's what it is the product is gonna fail a capacity boarded the story if this nor'easter. Okay we'll Financial Times now the app apple insider says that there's gonna be a tablet buying the beginning of the Financial Times saying we're gonna hear an announcement in September and will likely see -- by the Christmas holidays Sasha and."

" I. Would it OK I I agree with Eric that. Secular product exists and apple has actually been working on it for a pretty long time but the way apple works. They will work on these products for years and years and years and it won't come out until they think it's just right. And or."

" will never come out. Envelopes and a lot of products you know. When the iPhone was introduced if everyone remembers apple says that came out of direct result of their resurgent tablet market. They included the -- market was not a market to go out there that there was no market for those devices. And the Al. -- that was the iPod and iPhone and iPod touch so I'm sure there are apple tablet prototypes out there. But they did -- apple would bring something to market. Apple doesn't build products for 50000 consumers they built them for fifteen million consumers can unless someone makes a case for fifteen million it is."

" It's not happening here in the PC touch this is obviously this is new for me who's this is the tablet. But this is that has a keyboard 499. Bucks -- safely say that that's resemblance to."

" That's a good point I mean it into Michael's point what apple makes something like this not been playing with this for about a week. I say this is a media this is a media release only right now so we saw this -- yes but I'm playing with -- and -- weather for about a week you know its first great run out of that the display is really nice is pretty fast faster than traditional notebook. App apple and make something like this now in and they say this publicly say that we can't one but that's -- port for 499 yeah. Apple says we can't make something -- equality that we demand. Parts right and so I don't think we're gonna see anything quite like that a lot of them. Six tonight if that if if indeed exist I was a couple of scenarios."

" The PC with a touch screen. Yeah I mean Apple's not gonna do PC with a touch screen. Touch screens on TCU Goldberger quickly they've been on the market for ever your hand gets hired people don't want to who work in that environment it's a novel idea. But it doesn't change the game Apple's gonna do something it's gonna have to be a game changing product is gonna have to be some aspect of this product. That will say yes this makes sense in this being a notebook and a phone. And for the last fifteen years people been trying that space and failing every single -- and course Steve."

" It's the stylists as we know from a stylus style line. Stylized skyline this stuff stylus yet it is the skyline via the hairstyle you'll see you'll say it but. -- do this of course -- the styles on the side. I don't know I mean."

" This 700 dollars if they're gonna do. Any way shape or form it's gonna be a bigger cause them the iPod touch because it's gonna go back to that analyst at or below us and one. Hand but we also one other thing in and in Michael skepticism I think is is is well warranted but we're willing apple has been showing itself be more willing to do. Experiment play him Sasha got an apple TV here Steve Jobs called that -- right -- like in this tablet become well. You know we also coming also defend the press because we don't work in the press -- defend ourselves a little bit which is Financial Times okay enough and -- sort of sneeze at Apple and -- knows this -- that there's this week not this he's asked him."

" It's a right good but it would've been a lot better if someone -- had a source for -- Tom you know that the Financial Times -- and it sees that but even the traditional sources close to apple sources close to an OEM -- somewhere in Taiwan. It really felt like they were recording a rumor as fact with outsourcing and so. I'm a little skeptical on the way they presented it they would have presented it with a source that they were presented it as something that they have some credibility behind. Absolutely but what people were doing that with the Eiffel."

" at least one of these tablets. In in one scenario that I've heard ways that it was a prototype built to. The kind of it was it was built to connect to Verizon's network. Is Favre and negotiating chip when he's basically they would take the tablet AT and t.'s a look at this great connection we're getting from Verizon right. Why can't you guys do that right as a bargaining chip that was basically it leverage. --"

" There's there's one thing about all the press reports ethnic hyper aware of after -- your car mart would stay in and out."

" I'll say any story that protects a specific 186 months in advance is wrong about that one -- And I have seen."

" I have seen major wireless products old 72 hours before they were supposed to -- six months in advance it's definitely. Yeah well I mean."

" People work pretty spot on though with their reporting on the iPhone this at least three GS in the timeframe for July this year Apple's time frames are very interest one we're on a slightly different schedule now some -- decided not to. So January might happen and might not just -- but apple updates the iPod line and the nano specifically. And probably the touch every September 2005 we will see in iPods in September no question about it. Tablet is another issue and I think the he was aggressive I'm I don't I don't September."

" Maybe January if -- I spoke to someone not racism when an apple source of mine in apple said you know light like the Financial Times piece. And with a wink and nod. That was the most credible piece that they had seen with regards to tap. That's the right that was on my hand again we don't know yet it could exist and to not it to your point could exist that we might never ever see if."

" But January lousy time to these products apple has been forced into that -- as MacWorld MacWorld anymore. So if anything they can -- wouldn't fall. They can do it in the spring if it does exist. And look a lot it's gonna be determined by what the functionality of it is what price point of it is. Public work it's gonna need on developer sites that don't get applications ready for this so if it is true it does feel like it's something that's a little bit who were only especially for September on critics got it refresh of the iPod on it's almost a short. They're watching snow leopard you're gonna wanna focus on the snow leopard versus windows battle on the ball it's probably not the best time for them to do this even at this thing does exist but. -- wait -- job at a right now it's it's it's great -- in great speculation on the inside baseball that's -- it's apple is."

" Going to need some time Elvis. Story. Right how does it fit and I'll muddle up until the pioneering -- where they want and that sweet spot for sales -- September would -- that. But you know January might not be quite a -- so now we know the crunch -- of course Michael -- over it to techcrunch have been working on this we know that this thing is coming out and silicon Alley insider reporting that he should arrive around Thanksgiving time which would put in place and time for Christmas for about 400 dollars. Silicon Alley -- those saying look if this if there is an apple tablet though. Crunch -- is dead in the water number not the least of which -- Kevin throw up a picture of what we think you crunch that looks like from now because this is what. You know it's flat it's a web only device and it is silicon and silicon Alley insider's point you know. You it won't happen SD card slot from what they can tell so there's no actual storage on this device which means it's we have only so fine you know in new York and I'm jumping on -- subway. You know and word of mouth is a great thing people -- subways the other people the Kindle word of mouth kicks up people start buying candles when they see it an unlikely Kendall. It doesn't have any it wouldn't presumably having -- so where does this fit in my life and how this techcrunch tell the story where this fits in my life. I know."

" If apple does tablet it's got a problem but the truth is apple doesn't do tablet it's still gonna fail because it's a 400 dollar device that does one thing search the web we -- these products on the market. There's no market form whatsoever I can get a netbook for less money that can run Firefox that can run chrome that can do everything that can do -- can do it better at less cost and by the way. Still run real applications local storage at 400 dollars it's it's not gonna -- not even 200."

" Somewhere in my basement from 2001 I have a device called the Hitachi vision play. I -- a little it was a tiny little Linux PC embedded into withdrawing had a stylus. And connected to what was not yet widely called Wi-Fi. And and I've played around with a until a crack. The battery stopped taking power and you know it was just it was a it was a poorly executed concept I've tried so many of these different things over the years."

" Yeah. Is done that's our Internet tablets. I just the -- Monday. So -- stories similar product the -- that's stories written by one thing. And has nothing to do with the crisis that's Michael Harrington red is a big man is a big personality he's a big figure in the industry. And the reason people are fascinated with the crowd that is that it is a it's still down some now in electronic piece of Michael -- personality not right after. I think -- but he's a big."

" Player in the media industry he is not a big player in the electronics manufacturer but it crowd sourced it you know which is an interesting part of all of this to Michael and I mean on. I'm I have to play devil's advocate on center Michael Arrington can never thought -- do nothing. Terms of that but I mean to be honest with the crowd sources -- techcrunch community members to tell them what they want that this thing here is what we're gonna do and listen and went back and forth on it and listening to it. So at least if you know techcrunch readers are buying -- what you've got. 200000 --"

" RB focus groups and crowd sourcing is always the exact words -- to create a product. You know they say right Kamel was a horse on by committee added this product is -- you know a consumer electronics -- done by committee. That means it's gonna meet some people's needs -- will not meet mass market needs look the first rule -- birds laws of consumer electronics is there's a worldwide market of 50000 of -- thing I bet you this thing doesn't even sell the 8000."

" Yeah miles I'm right there with -- especially if we hear what happens in the fall and -- apple has something up its sleeves to. Silicon Alley insider's point I have to agree with them there. A couple more topics I want a blaster really quickly here on let's first of all address what happened with apple are blocking the Google Voice app of course TV mobile. And I was literally an hour away from downloading TV mobile. And I -- it was like a plane with that as an okay how does this fit in my life I have Google Voice don't wanna use this got to figure out if I want this one this apple my phone to really needed. Was looking at the white version that I did I slept on it as a look at that exceed its pulls -- and have a choice to download and anyway. So on got off the phone -- about an hour ago it's -- look I want. He's an answer here you know I know all the back and what's just give me -- answers straight this week now that we had a week to digest all this. Spoke to an apple executive an -- to executive who told me. Talked apple. We do not handle the app store we don't know we do not handle the approval process any app store. And I -- was there any of the line taken -- I was there any. Put cajoling arm movement at all from eighteen CD from you guys telling apple to pull it could emulate anything that eighteenth he was worried about it you know but again. Because it makes phone calls we have to use the TNT network they said no call apple. Called apple look. Talked -- just for the show and they said we know common."

" Look at the disingenuous answer is really tootsie and what steps they said when that sling player now apps application that lets use the slingbox the -- apple ones that don't approve this out. It runs over three -- only over Wi-Fi. And I can't imagine that this was an apple issue because there weren't any school boys apps in the store before the Google map out rejected so. You know I don't know that we hear all that's my question if Google Voice the -- from Google is -- widest suddenly -- mobile which is not in any -- related to Google at all suddenly get pulled as well we've also heard the rumors and stories. As Steve -- himself approved to those -- and -- millions and and white and white and being pulled off the wire wire and a lot of them. Look there's a reason for us and we are yes Geithner can't you can't you can't break first member carriers -- whole -- all of android an account openings all packer because. Those are essentially open marketplace is actor -- what about -- so -- can do about it. There is -- apple can do. And I suspect would happen is when Google with the application and that drew attention Google Voice products someone went back to the app stores -- other things in their two we gotta get rid of them but two out. Apple's credit beating Toledo mud GP I'm mobile user myself it was agreed one. Love and use it every day apple incumbent deleted all my iPhone same way Amazon content off people's -- right so let's get a little bit of credit here. Com and -- process is a little bit fuzzy but the truth is it's inside baseball mass market consumers don't care about this. They don't know this thing even exists it back the paper that Google Voice that was rejected. Most consumers would say what's cool voice so in the longer -- does this matter consumers I don't think so but it does matter on a larger level which is via the app store approval defending AT&T in this."

" what I was going to say is that. I -- the story and interesting with certain level because we know that the iPhone is eight totalitarian and arbitrary but. Hey this is not open platform it is any somewhat benevolent dictator and."

" Apple has been for months ever ever since they start accepting third party applications."

" Rejecting applications for contradictory reasons incoherent reasons -- reason. And that's just the way this platform works so yeah that you don't want it if you're developing for the iPhone you know it's a crack me what this is the problem Michael because I think -- sorry come."

" let's be clear that we got 55000 applications that make it through and if you could need more than a dozen applications that didn't get her or had a problem getting through that were later except that would be unlocked so that the vast majority of developers have no issues here and apple does have guidelines for -- big room. Right they need to create a better set of interim guidelines. They need to work with developers in these gray areas -- these gray areas exists let's not make a mountain out of a -- you were talking about maybe a dozen let's argue and see who doesn't applications. It'd either be rejected -- at issue is at a 55000. What's the percentage of that you know we're getting it to decimal point data model you know attitudes of the."

" He did it down right he did everything you know and and then it gets rejected so all the time I wouldn't -- happen that this was the finding in the -- Lines over through which you can develop. Are going to be necessarily flexible. And what's possible to change very quickly. And apple might."

" At an off so well and also what is mainstream in what is education there's an. The app -- well orbit lets you stream live TV your your PC and it works over three G and yet the -- layer is prohibited from doing so. My guess is the sling it was perceived as a mass market product in the short thing was -- is that geeky product not a secular issue. At any time -- people involved in the approval process -- me for God's sakes people make mistakes you know. They put it shaking baby application store I don't think he intended to do that. It was an error though so it is an approval process. But at the end of the day you know what iPhone doesn't crash because of rogue applications doesn't blue screen. And there is an element of quality control there as well so you could argue that it's benevolent dictatorship but. For the vast majority consumers seems to work and."

" Let's talk about columnist -- wrote this week one that I -- and I think we can all agree with those of us who love the apple TV there is the baby the baby apple TV you wrote a column saying what ever happened to the apple TV whatever happened to the apple T it seems that this."

" Apple's radar I was listening Apple's earnings call. Was it this week from last week not last week. The most interesting was they talked about basically every product apple makes the -- never -- the words apple TV wants. And it's a real pity because I have an apple TV I love the apple TV apple has never been able to communicate why this is a good product. It never even really tried to communicate like this is a good product if you go to this the work. It's often a corner with a -- tiny little lacquered headless it's it's impossible to see what it does it doesn't appear in commercials it doesn't appear in ads yet. It's a really. Excellent way to get all of your digital content and in fact the Internet."

" And hear what you think there's a difference between what apple wanted to do with the device and what we want as consumers wanted from the device right which is one thing and we -- we want something different I've argued that. What apple needs to do with the -- who would it it. Open it up then developed."

" Third party developers would have. It would have a wonderful time -- one."

" Why I -- 100% agree with you but I think what the problem areas."

" Is that when apple originally conceived of the apple TV they sold it the site solely as."

" A way to get purchased movies and TV shows from iTunes on to a large screen telling newspaper people wanted to packet and then it. It's gonna people want to do a whole bunch of things we've been watching knew the exact -- at the very well anchored way that really this. So under cells that -- yeah regulatory don't I don't don't underestimate."

" Apple in the long run with this device and we know there are three critical screens -- one of them is the CD set. Apple's not gonna walk away from this product -- group that -- I think we're gonna see this thing opened up as the applications platform. Imagine apple TV games up forming your controller is an iPhone or not hotspots. Link to it the same racquet control apple -- with that device are you could almost picture Steve Jobs getting -- there going yeah we're doing gains on apple TV and yet we could use an old fashion controller and now we've already got the best controller in the world."

" I think that your doughnuts and yes exactly and I that's what -- totally see them doing it of course we heard you know the working with algae off some sort of display. Possibly for a TV media TV integrated with apple TV maybe you'll see the box and her work but yeah. Maybe they want to push to decide what -- you know a few years we're not gonna have televisions without network capability I -- so. Is apple to sort of sitting back they wanted to test the waters a little bit with this device Sasha what do you think I mean it as Steve just talked about it's a hobby."

" the thing is I I guess I don't have as much. I don't have as much faith in apple here is Michael does I think what Mike was describing would be great I absolutely think that would be a great idea if that happened but. But it -- no signs from apple whatsoever. That way everybody's time."

" is -- product we never see we never see signs from apple wants to redo it and a lot of times apple does darken products that do for major refreshes so I think that we don't see something by the end your problem but I suspect Ergen it's the apple ego hobby. To strategic product we're 2001."

" The first apple -- is you know more than two years old -- apple done booking revenue for those that personal bills so. Mercury earth based on that there is the -- and if I get a little wink and a nod from. -- at Apple who I spoke to us on Sasha before the show about a month ago had a chance to talk and I said all right. -- what what is going on with one of my favorite devices what is going on with the apple TV just give me a wink if something is coming or not if nothing's coming. And he said. I'm trying not to blink and I'm trying to move my head end -- looking around smiling exit okay so. Hopefully something could be coming from apple TV. I think we've seen apple T repression the ball well pass that was seen Apple's apple."

" I'm not gonna hold out hope but if it happens I'm gonna be in line and I."

" Yeah I absolutely would sit on the big fan of it and I I hate it if if if it's something that blows me away I don't think it's gonna come out like this again he's going to be something blows away. -- Agree agree we're at a time Michael Garber I -- thank you as always from interpret what -- worked on lately Michael."

" We're just finishing up some new work on cell purchase habits so we got some interesting stuff on what consumers say they're willing to pay for devices and how much those devices are worried. And we got to get through the first data back on pre ownership group bought them why they bought them and have it stack up against the iPhone that it may shall be out over next few weeks."

" Cool you can check it -- at guard -- on Twitter Michael thanks nice to see you again thank you -- And Eric hasn't doll he is from business week magazine technology -- you of course were working on your is the iPod dead column picking up what else -- working on."

" Today we are we are looking at they're looking -- iPhone -- that with the ones that have been turned around I had some blogging. Done on the on the iPhone security issue overnight. And now we had a bit of I used that the Google Voice column. Google Voice controversy and half the people who have -- comment on who voiced anger that is so great -- about -- do the walk."

" I'm back I'm glad you were here in the right here next door they gotta do this part articles and things were not."

" Asks us to see different PC mag dot com PC magazine would be working on Sasha."

" Well we're always reviewing the latest phones and Smartphones you know we always we've got several reviews that every week. At a sprint Blackberry to war in my bag right now for instance. But yet you can you can follow what I'm doing on PC mag dot com also well listen to a podcast."

" It's angry. And check out the review of the might touch three G from team mobile up on PC mag dot com also check out I'm -- of the -- review coming. I guess that -- to the new curve or tortured or let her Blackberry that's great. In my mind Friday. I'd check me out on FOX & Friends tomorrow morning right here in early in the Fox News Channel you can watch his whole show once again on iTunes download video podcast it's also available on our website at foxnews.com. Until next Friday everyone all I promise we'll show you some. Games from a comic con -- got to talk about -- air balling up next business banks have."