Health Care Causality?

" Up next. Who passed reform the most cost promotes choice provides coverage for every American. We will do what this year. President Obama's health care scramble amid falling poll numbers and Democrats in disarray will he get the building want to win he wants it plus. Your state in the overhaul can you really keep your current insurance plan and we'll -- middle class gets stopped paying the bill. We're breaking down the policy and the politics of health care on this special edition of the journal. Editorial report. Welcome to The Journal Editorial Report."

" I'm Paula -- go well from a prime time press conference to a town hall meeting in Ohio it was a full court. Pressed by president Barack Obama this week to sell his health care reform plan into an increasingly skeptical public -- New Fox News opinion dynamics poll shows that nearly half of all Americans 45% think the quality of their families healthcare would be worse. Under the proposed reforms just 29% think it would be. Better are they right to be worried former New York lieutenant governor Betsy McCoy is a patient advocate. And chairman of the committee to reduce infection deaths she joins me now good to have you back again thank you. Now you wrote this week that seniors could be the biggest losers under this health care reform plan that's emerging in congress -- so."

" Certainly seniors bear the brunt under this bill the house spell and then on to the companion senate bill produced largely by senator Kennedy's staff. Opt for several reasons one is first they will pay for with cuts to Medicare. Feet one trillion to one point six trillion price tag on these bills will be paid for by tax hikes everybody's heard about those right. But by at least 500 to 550 billion dollars in cuts to Medicare estimate over ten years that's right and that about 810% cut in the Medicare budget at the same time. That Medicare enrollment will be increasing by about 30% as the baby boomers reaching Medicare --"

" This is this is fascinating because how can make cut Medicare spending because of doctors are already complaining that they get reimbursed by Medicare only 20% or 30% less. -- the real cost of -- of their procedures hospitals as well."

" It's going to mean reductions and hip replacement and knee replacement. Bypass surgery surgery angioplasty. The major procedures that have enabled this generation of the elderly to. Too hotly collateralized disability. Avoid deteriorating and nursing homes and instead lead active line."

" So wait a minute how is that going to happen and doctors are not gonna stop prescribing these things how is that what exactly how that mechanism -- they won't have to."

" Tucked into the stimulus package that was signed into law on February 17 was a provision. Art for art computers to be in doctors' offices and in hospitals at bedside. Computers that would deliver protocols to doctors electronically. -- what the government deems. Cost effective and appropriate care and there will be penalties -- for doctors were not. Meaningful use is that this system in March the president appointed doctor David Blumenthal. National coordinator of Health Information Technology and he's gonna oversee ensuring that doctors Obey these protocols in fact. On April ninth in the New England Journal medicine he wrote an article describing how he's going to do it. And he said he does anticipate some push back from rebellion from doctors who don't like losing their economy over what's good for their -- we'll."

" And -- think pushed back to from congress do you really think that this is something that the American public is going to is going to stand for won't congress pushed back."

" Well that's why Peter Orszag head of of the Office of Management and Budget again part of the White House went to congress earlier this week and asked for permission to. I really remove those decisions from congress. He asked congress to delegate the authority to make these decisions about what Medicare covers on how doctors are paid. Instead to a body outside of congress either med -- A body that already exists an advisory board or a council created within the White House."

" What did -- that this -- idea the president really really hit this hard to this press conference this week and this should be a group of council of wise men and women medical experts presumably who would propose protocols for spending and then present so the proceeding costs in particular. Trying to be more effective they say with their medical procedures then present those as a package to congress which could vote up or down. And what's wrong with that why shouldn't we turn this away from these political. Types on congress and give a -- a panel of X."

" Well congress is accountable and the seniors would certainly raise a lot of fury yet suddenly. They could not avoid the crippling effects of arthritis by getting knee replacement. Not and the fact is that the president likened this proposal to a base closing commission so would be immune from those. Popular impacts. But the fact isn't I don't believe we can count on the doctors that would be appointed to this to make the right decisions because. For example the doctors at bedtime the president has already chosen to be his chief health advisers are -- ardent advocates of limiting care for the elderly. Doctor Ezekiel -- an agency killing Manuel up for example brother rob -- joins us now chief of staff Rahm Emmanuel. Highly educated man who has written extensively. On his views that the elderly should get less care. That Americans are too enamored with high tech care. And that. -- people who have incurable illnesses and he uses specifically the example of dementia should not be guaranteed health care because they no longer contribute to society. Teach your views that most of the stone cherub."

" All right well we certainly need to debated but does the money and run and let's get another clip of the president on this point. Overall our proposals will improve the quality of care for seniors and save them thousands of dollars on prescription drugs. Which is why BA RP has endorsed our reformists why wouldn't the American association of retired persons oppose this if what you say is in fact point."

" I am shocked at the AARP's behavior and frankly to me they'd be trade seniors I'm amazed that seniors even continue to pay their dues to the AARP. The AARP says that their support universal coverage will help the seniors already have that. And they have so much to lose under this one of the other thing that's very dangerous to seniors in this legislation. It's a dramatic shift in funding for. Away from specialty medicine to primary care. On on the misconception that Americans -- specialists and drive up health costs in the process. But study after study showed that. People with heart disease who rely on primary care medicine. Are frequently misdiagnosed an incorrectly to cardiologists are better at much higher than they are they are readmitted to the hospital far more often and they die."

" Sooner all right -- thanks so much we're gonna have much more when we come back the house and senate health care plans. Up close what exactly is. The proposed legislation and how they plan to pay for our panel breaks it down and answer is the big questions."

" If you have health insurance. Reform were proposing provided -- more security and more stability. You'll keep government out of health care decisions. Giving you the option to keep your insurance if you're happy what."

" Perhaps the biggest concern for many Americans being able to keep their current health care plan President Obama says you can -- but for how long we're back with Betsy McCoy. Also joining the panel Wall Street Journal assistant editorial page features editor James Freeman. Senior editorial page writer Joseph -- and Washington columnist Kim Strauss all right Joe let's take them. One by one nonstarter -- that claim that you will be able to keep your health plans. If you want to -- is that true."

" I don't think so at all first you're gonna have government insurance option like Medicare but over into the middle class that war. Paid doctors and hospitals some market rates. Undercut private insurers. Private insurers will be regulated to -- To within an inch of their life basically. And then you know you've got the government mucking around with some of these rules that are allow large employers. To offer coverage to their employer and avoid state mandates a state rules because they have national plans and an order federal rules to. So and -- that this will sort of be subject to a health choices administration. That will gradually make employer sponsored coverage should work just as poorly as the rest of the insurance market."

" It's not a matter of speculation however or even prediction. The letter of the bills say that you will not be able to keep your existing plan and you will be forced to move into a managed care plan. That restricts your access to specialists and diagnostic tests if you look on the Senate bill page fifteen through seventeen or in the house bill. Excuse me the house bill fifteen to seventeen the Senate bill 56 to 58. You will see that you were required to roll and they qualified plan that means a plan that the government deems appropriate. And it has to be managed care that spelled out in the bill. If you get your insurance through your employer if you get your insurance through your employer's most Americans do your employer will have a grace period in which to move you into managed care. If you buy your insurance individually through a broker for example you won't have a grace period as long as anything changes in your current contractor -- pictures of what."

" The contract changes then that you go into this big government new order government regulation right because usually those things change everything but what about. About the fact that you have these union plans that are. Done that in the product of collective bargaining done in good faith that are often very very good health care and they really don't ever give these contracts."

" Some of the union plans RX exempted under these cells but most employers will only have the grace period to move there. Employees all of them end to these lower grade HMOs because the point of these bills as not to just cover the uninsured. It's to limit everyone's health care consumption and using managed care will do that. And to ensure that everyone has the same health care experience regardless of ability to pay. They don't want executives are people who go out by more expensive plans to have a different health care experience."

" That's a very important point that. More and more people are losing their jobs in Massachusetts I was reading about an employer just today. Who had to close up part of her business -- one office -- a couple of trucks and layoffs and employee and ordered to meet the government requirement to pay for health insurance."

" Okay can -- a let me ask you about the cost question because that's an important one CBO said the president the Congressional Budget Office said the president's. Proposal the house proposal will not. Safe money but can you save money overall somehow if you cover more people if you cover 44 million more people how you save money. Or."

" The argument of the White House and always made is if you did that and you had more competition you somehow managed to. -- to get more efficiency across the board that you could lower cost -- long term. The CBO has as blown that out we know that they have done an initial analysis of the house bill. It says that it there's going to be about 820 billion dollars in new taxes most of Hmong families and small businesses. There and even with that that there's still going to be about another 200 and -- fifty billion dollars. One deficit spending over the next ten years. And even then that doesn't count in the -- both of these bills bear in mind are designed to hide a lot of the costs -- come up front and only had -- start kicking toward the end of the bill. So what fresh looking -- is trillions in new spending over about coming here."

" Ya wanna give the house Democrats credit for one thing by raising by proposing putting this tax increase on the table five point four percentage point surtax. They've at least showed people that this is not going to be a free lunch. That's somebody's gonna have to pay for now they claim that it's only gonna be the wealthy. We'll have to pay that but. And it's tenants to the tune of 550 billion dollars but this thing is going to be enormously expensive."

" Yeah I mean it. All government. Health programs -- start small and grow over time -- experience with Medicare experience of Medicare. And this is sort of the from this from the same playbook. On on the Texas you know when when you've got some states California New York. Do -- with top rates pushing 50%."

" 60% 60% higher than Sweden -- federal state combination or in California new York New Jersey what happened from top marginal tax rates higher than almost all of Europe. Yeah and ended the truth is you can't finance. Health care for 90% of the population. With tax increases on to larger percent of upon so eventually this is just gonna have to reach down to middle class there's there's just no way to make food. Good money work. All right thank you all still ahead the politics of health care overhaul of the president's falling. Numbers and democratic disarray all eyes are Republican senator Chuck Grassley will tell you why. When we come back."

" We'll get there. Republicans in a minute but as the president touts his healthcare overhaul and his plan to tax the rich to pay for he's finding he can't even count out some members of his own party there is a so called blue dog coalition that met with the present Obama this week at the White House. And some freshman Democrats from the nation's wealthiest congressional districts. Are balking at the plan as well all right Kim so what's the problem president has with these Democrats or maybe. What problem to the Democrats have what."

" This plan. Well look the problem let he had this that he step back and let some of the most liberal members of congress -- the bills they have come out of both the house on the sun. So Ted Kennedy in the Senate and and Nancy Pelosi Henry Waxman in the house. What that of these bills that have come out with these soaring taxes these business mandates individual mandates the lack of choice for consumers. Have scared a lot of these blue dog and freshman Democrats remember. Mrs. -- he's margin was based on winning a lot of seats in very conservative districts over 2006 and 2008 these guys do not want to go home. And say that they voted for build it looks like -- so he can not get his caucus together."

" So what the president saying now -- to get these blue dog Democrats Democrats on board who care a lot about cost -- he's talking but med -- which Betsey and I talked about before which is this idea that. -- council of wise men and women would somehow propose things that would keep cost down is that kind of covered the work for the --"

" Well -- I mean. The blue dogs always are looking for reasons to roll over -- Lauren and vote for what they said they knew they weren't going to and I think the larger issues that. You know. If congress tries all sorts of schemes like this all the time and it never happens suspending continues to rise. The the only thing that would prevent that from happening is when the liabilities are just so large that there's that they're swamping the entire federal budget."

" I predict that there will be real rebellion to the decisions of this med -- commission or other commission because. Baby boomers are not gonna wanna live their later years in pain but when that happened before this passes that's that's the questionable -- are looking for political cover."

" and the president is trying to give it to them by saying we have this commission that will solve that belief that."

" You know I'm curious about why the Republicans have not much more aggressively proposed an eight fix what's broken leave the best alone alternative that reaches out to provide coverage for the 24 point seven million or so. People who were involuntarily uninsured they can't afford health plan. They're too well they earn too much to be eligible for Medicaid or -- chips. And -- we could take this issue of the uninsured simply off the table and I compassionate way and say we fix the problem."

" Republicans have proposed some ideas like that threw for refundable tax credit for example though they haven't gotten a lot of publicity because. Everybody's focused rightly so I think I'm yes Democrats who run congress and the White House are proposing. So there are some other ideas out there that could you say you're saying solve this on problem of the uninsured in a more humane and less costly way."

" Oh yes it would cost 28 to 49 billion dollars a year depending on the level of coverage. Provided to uninsured individuals and that's -- income group lower middle income families who are struggling to pay for health insurance. And it could be implemented rather quickly because in all fifty states. -- debit card technology has enabled state governments to deliver purchasing power to families even people who need it temporarily and 22% of the uninsured. Are just a temporary dilemma."

" Right I think pencils are excellent points but that's not going to happen in congress unless they become right now because the president is focused on these current efforts that we've been. Describing that's where the Republicans come in yet until after -- and these alternatives are gonna start to get a lot more attention because right now his sales pitches. Higher taxes. Let's care for the elderly and Washington's gonna decide whether your kid gets to talk top selective. If this is this is not a winner as a political sales pitch and so these alternatives. Using the tax code. Fixes to encourage more people to get insurance and -- it was hard to give more time."

" But in the immediate term as he's dealing trying to get this through congress can Strauss what you're seeing is a president really -- trying to work with some Republicans in the Senate particularly Iowa Republican Chuck Grassley. Senior Republican on the senate finance committee to get him to sign nine. With other senate that with senate Democrats and maybe some other senate Republicans to some kind of compromise. That they can then get through the Senate get to sixty votes they need. And so they're looking for that Republican cover what role threatens do you think Grassley is playing."

" Well up to now I mean you're right this is all about cover they need Grassley to bring along the bull by handful of Republicans and reassure their conservative Democrats. But the role he is playing here is -- mean Chuck Grassley is increasingly the guy who is either going to tend to blow up some of these bad ideas and he has the power to do that by stepping back and saying now. What a guy who may become the Republican known for delivering the nation you know socialist healthcare. So I mean he's really in the middle he's been working very hard with Max Baucus trying get compromised we don't know what's happening in those negotiations. They now have an extension time because the the president has basically says he'll step back and wait to see what happens after the August recess."

" So the president hauled in the CBO director Doug Helmand or -- given that -- that they had score. That brought him into a failing with a phalanx of White House aides was at subtle pressure. I don't think were subtle well how. After I put this LBJ Desantis. But you know I think what the Republicans really have to do now. -- kill this thing as it is so that opens up the space for other alternatives -- and otherwise are just gonna be. Providing a bipartisan gloss on what is really a terrible by Republicans can't kill it Democrats have to kill it if every Republican voted against this it could still."

" Past when Democrats go home they will hear loud and clear from their constituents that people don't wanna give up the health plans camp now. For the rigors of managed care they've rejected it in the 1990s and they wanna stick with the health plan they have."

" All right thank you we have to take one more break when we come back our hits and misses of the week."

" Time now for our hits and misses of the week -- first you. -- like -- a hit to an American car company that actually turned eighteen point three billion dollar profit in the second quarter here in American car company. That. Increased its market share in Europe and America and I'm speaking of course of Ford's. Who also happens to be the one American car company who did not let the government baking for money your bailout so. Maybe this shows of the disciplines and the pressure of the private market the best way that to get a company on the right track after all --"

" James well this is they miss two new Jersey's political class Paul is you know New Jersey is so close to being the best state in the country. Title went up to speed up these politics and do something ridiculous and where high tax rates and broad debris. -- bribe taking their kids -- And so this is -- miss this week. Not proven guilty yet but more charges against New Jersey politicians for her."

" And I recommend this book the soprano state by a couple of New Jersey reporters. Detailing a lot of this stuff all right tell a joke. I'd like you hit this week to the -- center for the performing arts in upstate New York which was built on top of the site where Woodstock Chris held 1969. I was up there last weekend in what used to be sort of a vast if you waste land has been converted into this very commercial plays very well manicured. And all the beer and food vendors are these major corporations. So I'd like to get hit two baby boomers for. Dumping everything needs to believe then which was always pretty silly to begin."

" January Woodstock weren't you -- remember you have your own hitter -- please send it to us said JR at foxnews.com. That's it for this week's edition of The Journal Editorial Report thanks to my panel and a -- Hello I'm -- we -- to -- right here. Next week."