This is a partial transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto", February 13, 2004, that was edited for clarity.
Watch "Your World w/Cavuto" weekdays at 4 p.m. and 1 a.m. ET.
NEIL CAVUTO, HOST: A team of South Korean researchers has announced its successful harvesting of stem cells from a cloned human embryo (search). And while this claim appears to be backed up with proof, another group that calls itself Clonaid claims to have cloned a sixth human being, born a week ago in Australia. But Clonaid has yet to provide a stitch of proof about this or the presumed five other clonings.
Joining me now from Sydney, Australia, is Dr. Brigitte Boisselier, the CEO of Clonaid, who says that she is in Australia to oversee this 6th cloned human. And in Miami, Florida, the head of the quasi-religious Raelian movement, which is linked to Clonaid, Rael, the leader formerly known as Claude Vorilhon.
Thank you both for coming. Appreciate it.
Doctor, to you first. A lot of people say you are lying, that there is no child, there is no cloning, it is all fiction. What do you say?
Dr. BRIGITTE BOISSELIER, CEO, CLONAID: Well, I say that you have seen that there are some other people who are able to do it with a high success rate. We have a higher success rate, because we have been studying earlier. And I’m very pleased that we are joined with other scientists.
To clone a human being is not complicated, and it’s easier than to clone any other mammals. We found that out, and that’s why we are so successful. People can say this is a hoax. I’m saying this is the reality. If...
CAVUTO: Then doctor, prove it. Prove it. Show me pictures of one of the -- any of these kids, if they are out there. Everyone is saying that, you know, because you haven’t shown anyone you must be lying.
BOISSELIER: Well, I have shown pictures. There are pictures on our Web site. And you know that. But when I show pictures, people are saying, who can prove that this is a cloned child? And so it goes on and on.
We have -- I think we have found a means to prove that. And I think by the end of March you will have it, OK? But don’t...
CAVUTO: The end of March? Wait a minute. I want to be clear. Wait a minute. So at the end of March, we’re going to have proof that this exists, right?
BOISSELIER: Yes, because I think we can have samples that can be shown with different age. I mean, you can have the same DNA and different age, and this can be proven without jeopardizing too much the life of the children and the child and the father. But you have to realize that if I show you the proof, just in my country I could face 20 years in jail.
Should I be foolish enough to give you the proof that will put me in jail? I think the answer...
CAVUTO: I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, doctor.
Rael, I want to raise something with you. Alan Bouchard (ph), a sociologist specializing in this sort of stuff, was saying of your claim, and the group’s claim about this cloning, that "The more time passes the more we are sure that cloning is just hogwash. They’re guilty of a publicity stunt."
What do you say to that?
RAEL, LEADER OF RAELIAN MOVEMENT: Are you talking to me?
CAVUTO: Yes, I am.
RAEL: You know, one more time, there is no link between the cloning company, Clonaid, led by Dr. Boisselier, and the Raelian movement. Absolutely no link. And I learned about the sick child as the same time as you by watching the news.
CAVUTO: Well, let me ask you, do you believe the doctor? She said they cloned a 6th human being. Do you believe it?
RAEL: I know her for a long time, and everything she said it was always true. So I have no reason to doubt what she says. Until somebody can prove me she’s lying, I trust her.
CAVUTO: All right, Rael, because here’s my worry with this whole Clonaid thing -- and I don’t know whether you’re directly linked to it or not -- we can’t find a firm address for it. We can’t find a board of directors. All we know is that there are two employees, yet they’re charging dozens of prospective clients upwards of $200,000 a piece.
To me it sounds like you are taking advantage of infertile couples or dying folks who desperately want to see a reproduction of a human body. What do you think?
RAEL: I trust Dr. Boisselier. I think she is somebody who is earnest, and I think she has proven in the past, because everybody was saying it is not true, and then the FDA closed the laboratory in America. So there was a laboratory. And now she has a new laboratory, somewhere, I think.
She hides it very carefully, because some countries will prosecute her. And I think she’s perfectly right to do it in secret location. And that is good. And she has thousands of people who support her. And she’s an earnest person.
CAVUTO: Doctor, let me ask you this: there have been a lot of people in this country opposed to cloning and concerned about the claims that you have made. And one of them is Bernard Segal (ph). He’s a Florida lawyer, who told Reuters not long too ago -- and I hope I’m quoting here correctly -- "People are trying to laugh them off, but there are plenty of people who are gullible who believe what Clonaid says, and they fall victim to their scheme. He goes on to say, "It is terrible they prey on people who have these hopes."
What do you say to that?
BOISSELIER: You know, they are not a majority. You should see the people in the street are cheering me up. You made it (ph), and congratulations. The people asking me, calling me, saying, "We’d like to be cloned" or "We’d like to support you."
You are talking -- when you talk about the people like Bernard Segal (ph), you are talking about someone who would like some publicity. But, you know, they are a minority. And you should realize that you, as the media, that you are talking about monster, about defects, about a hoax. But the people in the street do not believe you.
They do realize that having a baby, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) cloning, is having a child, a desired child, and is helping a lot of people. What is wrong with...
CAVUTO: Doctor, let me get a couple of things straight here. Doctor, I have to tell you, I’ve got historic (ph) facts here, all right? How much do you charge people to take part in your organization?
BOISSELIER: Right now, I haven’t been charging anybody, because the 30 implantations we have done were part of our development. So I have been paying everything.
Of course the parents came to us, and it has been for some of them a long flight, and they had to pay for the accommodations and so on. But they got a baby at this price. We never charge anyone. Now that we have proven that we can have six children born to Clonaid, and we have seven more coming in the next two weeks...
CAVUTO: You have seven more coming in the next two weeks? And you are saying that in Australia if you said anything you would be guilty of a crime, even though in Australia cloning is not illegal.
BOISSELIER: It’s not legal here, and I haven’t done anything here. They are just -- a child was born, and it is not illegal to have a child here. But the baby was...
CAVUTO: So Doctor, see -- Doctor, you are driving me nuts here. That is what I’m asking then. If it’s not illegal in Australia, and you say you are afraid of being put into prison if you give proof that you cloned yet another child, show us -- wait a minute. Show the child. Show the other...
BOISSELIER: I’m a French citizen. I’m a French citizen. If I go to France right now, I would face 20 years in jail.
The United Nations is saying it is a crime against humanity. And if it passed that, then I could maybe not be able to travel around the world anymore. I have to face that. You want me to be foolish enough to give you the proof so that I can face...