• This is a partial transcript from Your World with Neil Cavuto, January 14, 2003, that was edited for clarity. Click here for complete access to all of Neil Cavuto's CEO interviews.

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    NEIL CAVUTO, HOST: You just heard what the White House is considering. Time for a very different point of view on how to deal with this North Korea mess. And it's from a Republican. Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona joins us now from Capitol Hill.

    Senator, always good seeing you.

    SEN. JON KYL, R-ARIZ.: Thank you, Neil.

    CAVUTO: You don't think the president is being tough enough?

    KYL: No, actually your characterization is that our views are very different. From what I heard the president say they are not that different. I simply add one other element and that is the "or else" to the negotiations.

    It seems to me that the president has made it clear that there is a carrot out there for the North Koreans if they will enter into meaningful discussions that result in their disarmament. But there also has to be an "or else," I think. And that's where the legislation that Senator McCain and I introduced comes in. Because it gives the president authority some things that he could do to let the North Koreans know that if they don't sit down and seriously talk about this and agree to it, that there are some very negative things that could happen to them, including the fact that they wouldn't ever be able to sell any of their weapons of mass destruction or missiles around the world, which is currently their chief source of hard currency.

    CAVUTO: But what I worry about, Senator, is whether you can trust these guys. After all, former President Clinton entered into a similar deal to try to extract from them concessions that they weren't going to build this nuclear program, give them economic aid, and they hoodwinked the guy.

    KYL: They did. And no, you can't trust them. And that's why the deal has to be not a freeze on their nuclear weapon program, but a dismantlement, as the president said. And it has to be verified.

    CAVUTO: But how would we prove that, Senator? How would we prove it?

    KYL: It has to be verifiable. In other words, the North Koreans have to agree that a group of countries, the United States could be one of them, have to be able to come into North Korea and ensure that they have gotten rid of the program that we know exists.

    CAVUTO: But my worry, and I think a lot of people's worry, as you know, sir, with North Korea, in fact, you have led this charge, is that we simply cannot trust what they say and what they do. So let's say they agree tomorrow, oh, we're going to get some aid, so we're going to stop these, you know, radiation treatments and all that we're doing in certain areas and give it a rest. They say that and we later find out that they are doing it somewhere else. This would be like policing the whole Iraq thing, right?

    KYL: You're right. And giving it a rest is not enough. They have to dismantle it. That's the plutonium processing that makes nuclear weapons from plutonium. They also have to show us where their uranium enrichment program is, that they have admitted exists and we have evidence of, but they need to show us all the pieces of that and dismantle that as well. It is an affirmative action on their part. And I think that's what the president is talking about. So we're not going to trust them this time around to simply freeze the program in place because, as has been evident by what they have done, they can simply lift the pot off the lid any time...

    CAVUTO: Yeah. And Senator, here's my worry with the North Koreans in general. They know that their nuclear program, whether it is progressing along or not progressing at all, is their ultimate bargaining chip. So why would they take that off the table any time, regardless of the economic incentive?

    KYL: Excellent question. That's where our legislation comes in. We have to make the choice very difficult for them to continue that program.  They have to know that they have a very big price to pay if they are going to continue that program. And if part of that price is they can't sell the stuff any where, then we cut off a major supply, not only of proliferation around the world, but also of hard currency to North Korea. That's just one of the many things in our legislation. So that's why I say there has to be a carrot and a stick, an end to the negotiations that actually results in an achievement on our part, not just more talk.

    CAVUTO: All right. Senator Jon Kyl, thank you, good seeing you again.

    KYL: Thank you, Neil.

    CAVUTO: Senator Kyl in Washington.

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