Was Affordable Care Act rollout botched?

Published Monday, October 07, 2013 / The Five
With Eric Bolling , Bob Beckel , Dana Perino , Kimberly Guilfoyle , Brian Kilmeade

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 7, 2013. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with

Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Brian Kilmeade.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City. This is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

BOLLING: Well, happy Monday, everybody. And welcome to day seven of the

Harry Reid government shutdown.

On the left, President O and liberals unwilling to negotiate to solve the

political stalemate. On the right, a small group of gutsy Tea Party-backed

reps who are doing exactly what their base elected them to do. Fight

ObamaCare and a redistribution president at all costs.

But ObamaCare launched Tuesday anyway amid massive glitches. Here's

America's CEO on a number of ObamaCare enrollees in week one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

INTERVIEWER: How many people signed up for insurance this week?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't have the numbers

yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: You don't have the numbers? Really, sir? Can you imagine Apple

not knowing how many iPhone 5s were sold? By the way, the number was 9

million in the first three days. Almost 3 million of you watched THE

FIVE's last show.

So, I wonder why the president doesn't know. Should we rename it Obama

doesn't care? How did Obama do on rolling out week one?

"Saturday Night Live", "The Five" wants to know. President O, a winner or

loser?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Loser, the ObamaCare Web site, with had technical

issues because of too much web traffic. You can't campaign on the fact

millions don't have health care and then be surprised that millions don't

have health care. How could you not be ready? That's like 1800-flowers

getting caught off guard by Valentine's Day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: There it is. His signature legislation. His name's on it. In

the weekend, he has no idea how many signed up.

BECKEL: You know, that was a really impartial open on your part.

BRIAN KILMEADE, CO-HOST: Did you write that, Bob?

BECKEL: A few brave Tea Party people standing up there --

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Gutsy.

BECKEL: Yes, that's right. And Obama doesn't care. I get.

BOLLING: So what about it? Why ---

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: First of all, the report -- why does he not know? I'm not sure

anybody knows. The point is, come January 1, millions of people will have

ObamaCare.

The other thing you don't understand is millions already are benefiting

from it. Those who get their parent's insurance until they're 26 and those

like me who have pre-existing conditions.

So, you can go on about it all you want. You can talk about all the

glitches and the rest of it. The fact is, ObamaCare is here, and it's here

to stay. It's got --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: K.G., do you think by any chance, call me a skeptic, call me

crazy, but maybe he didn't know the number because it was so darn low?

He's so darn low, he's embarrassed to say what the number was?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, I think that's part of the problem. It seems like a

reasonable explanation to me. My favorite was, the Obama doesn't care, but

how is it you can say you're going to provide health care for everyone? It

doesn't work at all. It's more than just the glitch. Nobody can get on

how many days later.

So, to me, this isn't even a train wreck. It's a 787 with Dreamliner with

screaming passengers running right into a mountain.

BOLLING: President Obama is the CEO of the country. Any CEO with such a

massive rollout of their product would know how things are going. Day one,

hour one. Day one, week one, right?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yes, and they would break it out into what time were

people ordering. Was it early in the quarter of the hour? Just like we

look at ratings.

If he wanted to know, he would have known. If the number would have blown

all of us away, we would all know it. I think that the glitches piece of

it, it's a significant story, but that's actually one that could be fixed.

So, the disaster is in the complete missed opportunity, especially when it

comes to two basic things -- the tort reform piece and the ability to sell

across state lines. If they had allowed those things, then you would have

one big thing called the free market and it would work.

KILMEADE: Right.

BOLLING: Brian, they had four years to have this Web site up and running.

They knew they were going to get people trying to sign up. They blew it.

KILMEADE: Here's a deal -- if I'm President Obama and I believe in the

product, which he clearly does, Bob, you'd agree, I'd be angry. I'd go, I

so disappointed in 46 of the 50 states not being able to get this up. He

absolutely did not get it done.

The fact that no one`s reporting to him with the numbers he wants -- we

watch this every day. I studied at the Cavuto school of business. I

understand CEOs sometimes delegate responsibilities if it doesn't work out,

so people get fired and they demand accountability.

Why does the president try to soft pedal it? Why doesn't he come out and

say, I can't believe --

GUILFOYLE: Nothing's his fault, that's the problem.

BOLLING: Maybe, the scary part is, if they --

KILMEADE: You would never say that? I'm so disappointed? But you cannot

be my press secretary then, because you can't giggle in front of the press.

BOLLING: Think about this for a second. If they blow something as basic

as getting a Web site open for business, how are they going to manage one-

sixth of the $15 trillion economy?

BECKEL: First of all -- not very well put together website. We made this

point over and over here about all these businesses with 50 employees going

to lose -- do you know that 93 percent of the businesses in America have

less than 50 employees, 93 percent.

TANTAROS: That's a point, but you want those companies to have more

employees, you want them to grow beyond 50 employees.

BECKEL: Those people not get --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: It's not off topic. But it's good news.

BOLLING: It certainly is off topic. We're talking about President Obama

fudging the numbers.

BECKEL: Obama doesn't care.

BOLLING: I got a better one.

BECKEL: Impeach him.

BOLLING: Obama must think we're playing stupid or something. Can you

imagine going into a negotiation by first giving away the ranch and hoping

the other side plays fair? Take a listen to this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We can't fret an economic catastrophe to authorize the Treasury to

pay America's bills. Pass a budget. End the government shutdown. Pay our

bills. And prevent an economic shutdown. And as soon as that happens, I

am eager and ready to sit down and negotiate with Republicans on a whole

range of issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So, Brian, let me throw this out here. So, there are two things

on the table. It's the budget and then there's the debt ceiling. So,

President Obama suggests today on the podium that Republicans give in on

the budget and give in on the debt ceiling and then maybe he'll -- the only

promise is to sit down.

KILMEADE: Here's a deal -- clearly, he got some bad polling, bad data over

the weekend. They said, hey, this whole intransigent, I will not

negotiate, it's not working for him. So, I'm going to split the baby.

I'm going to say I'm not to move and then I'm going to end it with, I like

negotiate, hoping people who are so busy in their lives will go, isn't it

nice of the president to give in after a while? But we do know there is

some movement today. We do know the president might be open to extending

this an extra six days, a temporary refunding of the government.

BECKEL: Do they get different polling data on Long Island and the rest of

America?

KILMEADE: Yes.

BECKEL: You probably do --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: The fact of the matter is, Republicans are getting more and more

blame. But here's the most important -- Eric, of course, would never put

it in his open -- the Democrats have asked Boehner to please put a clean

C.R. on the floor and let's have a vote and he will lose, but he won't do

it.

BOLLING: Of course he won't.

BECKEL: He won't do -- why?

BOLLING: Why would he?

BECKEL: Because it's a C.R. -- the majority of the House of

Representatives --

BOLLING: Here's what you're doing. You're talking to our viewers who

maybe not -- don't understand the inside baseball workings of D.C.

Dana, John Boehner -- do you think John Boehner will actually bring that

vote to the floor of the House?

PERINO: No, he's going to -- he has to have something. They have to and

President Obama -- they have to know this, Bob, that they have to give him

something. So, the rudimentary principles of the negotiation would say,

OK, what can we give him?

If I were Boehner, I think I would ask for two things. Two votes so that

everybody's on record. A clean C.R. with an amendment that says government

has to abide by the same rules as the rest of America. And the second one,

asking for a one-year delay in the individual mandate.

BECKEL: OK, I think your first --

PERINO: On those two things I think -- even if he loses, then you have all

those Democrats on record and then you're off to the races.

BECKEL: Last week, it was the whackos who were keeping this thing from

being passed. Now, the whackos do not have enough whackos to stop it and

you don't let the thing go through to the well of the Congress.

BOLLING: Can you imagine bringing that vote and letting 200 Democrats --

BECKEL: Having democracy works?

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Having democracy works?

BOLLING: Don't worry, ain't going to happen.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You're afraid to do it. You're cowards.

BOLLING: Here's the president would like. He would like -- I guess Bob

thinks it's the right thing to do -- he wants the Republican to say, just

give us everything. Go to the vote and give us everything, without

negotiating. Who's going to go back to their constituency and, look what

we got? Nothing.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody's going to do that. What was the whole point of this

exercise to begin with? Because that's what it would have been, it was

just a little bit of stretching, with no substance to it, if you would have

go by Bob's recommendation, it is not realistic or feasible. It's not

going to happen.

BECKEL: It's the a majority -- it's democracy. It's a majority of the

House, a majority of the Senate, and the president. That's how it works.

I've got to get you an online class in civics.

BOLLING: Bob, I don't need an online class in civics. I would -- John

Boehner isn't going to bring that if even if there are --

BECKEL: He's a fool to not do it.

BOLLING: He's a fool to bring it if he did, because they would march right

out of this one.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Take a look at the ad wars going on behind the scenes. Watch

this, one of each.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS, POLITICAL AD)

AD NARRATOR: Boehner doesn't have guts to put a clean bill on the floor to

fund the government. Why? He's afraid of the Tea Party. Call Boehner and

tell him: don't let Tea Party radicals sabotage our government.

OBAMA: I will not negotiate.

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He will not negotiate.

OBAMA: In case there's any confusion, I will not negotiate.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: The president has made it clear he is not

going to negotiate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn't this insane?

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BOLLING: All right, so, Bob, clearly, on left, they want that clean C.R.

to go to a vote. That's not the way to get it done.

BECKEL: Last week, the reason was you couldn't get enough votes to pass

it. Now, you can get enough to pass it. And the Republicans are

absolutely going in the tank for the right-wing zealots like you who buy

into this stuff. Democracy is democracy. If you got enough votes to pass

it, you pass it. You got enough votes.

Boehner frankly is being a coward by not bringing it up.

PERINO: I cannot believe that.

KILMEADE: If Greg Gutfeld's hamstring had torn on Monday instead of

Friday, and I was -- or Tuesday, I had filled in for him, whatever the

reason is he couldn't be here, I would say Bob, you're right. I would say

there's a lot of people in the House that were against what Ted Cruz did

and were offended, 20 to 25.

I think the president's stance, which you saw in that commercial

highlighted, has made people like Peter King rethink their stance. And

say, wait a second, I don't like the way he's refusing to negotiate. I

don't like the stance or tone. I am not sure that John Boehner was wrong

on Sunday when he said, if I put it to the vote, then it would not -- then

a clean C.R. would pass.

BOLLING: By the way, who says it will?

GUILFOYLE: You're saying the same thing.

BOLLING: Because there are 23 that said they would vote in favor --

BECKEL: Put it on the floor.

BOLLING: You think those 23 who --

BECKEL: Find out, put it on the floor --

BOLLING: They'll raise their hand, saying, I vote for --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: You're out of your mind.

BECKEL: Put it on the floor, see if you have the guts to put it on the

floor, you don't.

BOLLING: There's another big battle going on and this is alleging going to

come down on October 17th. Now, that's a floating date. Jack Lew, the

treasury secretary, said on October 17th, we're going to run out of money.

We're going to run out of debt. We're going to run our ability to raise

our debt above that limit. It doesn't necessarily have to be that day.

Take a listen to Jack Lew over the weekend, I would say fear-mongering.

And then Rand Paul's response. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

JACK LEW, TREASURY SECRETARY: The consequences are immediate and they're

very bad. Congress needs to act.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Would it be catastrophic?

LEW: Chris, I am telling you that I know the direction. I know the

direction is bad. There are a range of how bad. It is not responsible --

it is irresponsible and it is reckless to take that chance.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I think it's irresponsible of the president

and his men to even talk about default. There's no reason for us to

default. We bring in $250 billion in taxes every month. Our interest

payment is $20 billion. Tell me why we would ever default.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BOLLING: OK, Dana, here are the numbers. In the brain room, we crunched

the numbers for 10 months in 2013. We're going to take in $225 billion per

month. Servicing our debt, which were the only reason that would cost

America to default is if we didn't do that, is only $24 million. It's $200

billion more left over after that.

PERINO: As I understand it, one of the things the Treasury -- what

Treasury does is look at the day-to-day revenue projections, not the month

long. You have to ask yourself, is this any way to run a business or

country?

GUILFOYLE: No.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: That the American economy hinges on $24 billion to be able to pay

our debt. That I think is going to feed into this shutdown story and debt

limit story are going to come together, and when there is something that is

worked out, they'll do it together.

I have a question about the story line that Jack Lew, when he was talking

about the debt ceiling, what I don't understand from the Republican side as

well is, so the shutdown was supposed to cause pain in order to get people

to do something. But the pain has not arrived.

BOLLING: Can I push it back a little bit? President Obama likes the pain.

He's pushing for maximum --

BECKEL: There is pain --

BOLLING: When you talk about closing the ocean, down in Florida, they

close a portion of the ocean, when you talk about World War II Memorial --

PERINO: Throwing people out of their homes? Closing down the Amber Alert.

BOLLING: Amber Alert, yes.

PERINO: I agree they're trying to do that, but I don't think anybody's

quite thought through, the American people are sort of like, what is all

the fuss about? Because they haven't seen it yet.

But the markets could react, and could react very negatively and that's

when you see action on Congress.

KILMEADE: You know, we did see the pain with sequester if you're in the

military. We didn't see it throughout the country. So, you could see the

-- the problem is the president oversold the pain.

GUILFOYLE: But that's population specific. So, what we're seeing -- the

rest of America really understand what's going on that this is, you know, a

bad situation. Right now, they're holding firm.

BECKEL: If you don't think that pain for a small business is not being

able to process your loans and for students to not process your loans or

for any number of programs not being serviced in America to help poor

people, if you don't think that's pain, then I guess you have --

PERINO: Bob, there's not an overwhelming story line that has been produced

that is going to spur action --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: And it's going to run into the debt ceiling.

BECKEL: Your math, again, we've got to get you into Phoenix University.

BOLLING: It's he real math, Bob, it's not the Obama math, or the Beckel

math.

BECKEL: What about the deficit? You say $250 billion a month, right? Is

that what you're saying?

KILMEADE: Two hundred and fifty billion.

BOLLING: Two hundred and twenty-five billion are the federal receipts

between taxes, fees and licensing. We take in $225 billion per month.

BECKEL: How much do we spend?

BOLLING: Servicing that debt is $24 billion.

BECKEL: How much we spend above that?

BOLLING: Well, above that. Therein lies the problem. There is why --

BECKEL: You want to just cut all that off?

BOLLING: Here's what you do, Bob. Here's what it is. In an example that

you may or many understand. You get your paycheck every week --

BECKEL: I understand.

BOLLING: The first thing you do is pay your mortgage, right? The second

thing is pay your electricity bill. The third thing is pay your --

GUILFOYLE: Water, garbage --

PERINO: Car, cable.

BOLLING: About a tenth, or eleventh, then start paying, in my case, a bar

tab or restaurant tabs. But if you don't have enough money to pay for

that, you say, look, I'm going to get paid next week too, just hang in

there. We'll be good.

BECKEL: OK, since we know where the deficit is, then what you ought to say

is, let's not pay Social Security recipients, let's not pay Medicare.

BOLLING: We don't do that, Bob. Those are mandatory --

BECKEL: OK, then you've got mandatory payments so you've got to do that.

There's not enough money to be taken out of discretionary spending for what

you're talking about.

BOLLING: Well, actually, there is.

BECKEL: Where, how?

BOLLING: Discretionary spending is about a third of all our spending,

right?

BECKEL: There's air traffic controllers, border --

BOLLING: So, two-thirds comes from non-discretionary, right?

BECKEL: Excuse me, you want to pick out of that which one you will cut?

BOLLING: Yes, until they figure out their act in D.C.

PERINO: Or you can also fight for reform to the entitlement programs, that

would allow you to have more revenue. That was the Paul Ryan plan --

KILMEADE: Paul Ryan evidently working on something behind the scenes right

now.

BECKEL: There's going to be a deal on the 17th.

GUILFOYLE: That's the point, use this as a unique opportunity to make cuts

that are much needed so we can work better as an efficient government.

BOLLING: We're going to have to leave it there. That was one kick butt A-

block, you guys.

Listen, a couple of programming notes, FOX News kicks off --

BECKEL: Math was a little weird --

BOLLING: -- a brand-new prime-time lineup.

KILMEADE: Look at that.

BOLLING: Tonight, Greta at 7:00, O'Reilly at 8:00, Megyn Kelly at 9:00,

and Hannity at 10: 0. And "The Five" will be part of Megyn's very first show

so we'll see you in the 9: 0 hour.

And tomorrow, we're headed down to D.C. to do the show from there. Dana

will explain why we're going there a little later.

But, first, an explosive new investigation discovers a major scheme to

defraud the nation Social Security disability programs. That's next on THE

FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Today, Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn released a damning expose of

the bloated and corrupt U.S. Disability Fund. The program serves roughly

12 Americans with an annual budget three times than the Department of

Homeland Security.

The fraud exposed by the senator and his staff plays like a Grisham novel -

- crooked lawyers, judges and doctors all gaming on vulnerable government

program.

Here's Senator Coburn, also a doctor, discussing the problems at the Senate

hearing earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM COBURN (R), OKLAHOMA: While lawyers and doctors were getting rich

by exploiting a broken program, the real victims were the claimants and the

American taxpayer. The claimants suffer because we don't do any favors

when we wrongly award benefits and we will certainly hurt those who

justifiably are receiving those benefits when the trust fund runs out of

money probably in less than 18 months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK, this follows on a little bit to what we were talking about --

18 months to go before this fund, which helps people that are on

disability, and the question of how much fraud is involved in this was

exposed by Senator Coburn and his staff by "60 Minutes" last night.

How much fraud do you think is in the program where you can start to flip

that ratio that we're talking on discretionary and nondiscretionary?

BOLLING: I'm not sure there's enough there. Remember, the Social Security

trust fund has been looted. The overall, the $2 trillion trust fund,

they've already done that one. So, now, they're playing around with this

one. To understand why this is important, yes, people pay into the

disability fund. You do, when you get your check, money goes towards it.

However, so many people are going on to disability now that may or may not

need it, it jeopardized it when it runs out of money, it jeopardizes the

people who actually do need it. So, in a year and a half or so, when it

runs out of money, the trust is completely blown, people who really need

disability, they're going to start cuts back from $1,100 a month to

whatever it may be. That's part of the problem.

And "60 Minutes" did a great job exposing some of the lawyers bringing the

suits and --

PERINO: Yes, the one last night, the villain last was called Eric Cullen

(ph) and let's take a look at that and take Kimberly's take on this lawyer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: A lot of allegations out there about you that we wanted to talk

to you about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand. I'm not normally a shy person but I

think it's best I speak in the legal realm rather than here. I know ya'll

have come a long way. I don't mean to be inhospitable. I just think it's

probably best now.

REPORTER: You can't talk about your relationship with George Dougherty

(ph) or your incredible success in disability court?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's tempting. Oh, I would love to comment on some

of that. But no, sir, I really don't think I should right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, Kimberly, as a lawyer, what he does is he tells clients, if

you've been turned down for Social Security, I can help you. He's got like

a 99 percent approval rating. Guess who pays for it? The Social Security

administration pays the lawyer.

So, smart lawyer or crooked lawyer?

GUILFOYLE: That's what we call a racket. He's got a whole operation going

there. He should be investigated. He's smart enough OK, and probably

dishonest enough to avoid the questions that "60 Minutes" wants to hand him

because that will nail him and he could involve himself with criminal

liability.

PERINO: Bob, you think, let me ask you, would think liberals who support

this program and want people who are in need to be able to have access to

funds, wouldn't liberals be the most mad about this?

BECKEL: And they are. I mean, they're now servicing about four times as

many people as they were supposed to, they thought they were going to.

The villains here are not just the lawyers, it's the doctors they sign up

and pay off. To say this person's got a disability. And so, you've got

doctors and lawyers being paid. If you took them out of the mix, people

who need it could get their liability for a long time. But these doctors

are just -- these are the same doctors who worked for Medicare and

Medicaid, always bitching about not getting their payments from the federal

government when they're ripping off the federal government.

KILMEADE: I don't know if they're the same doctor. But here's what I find

heartening. Because this is something everyone can rally around and can be

strengthened out. Because if you go ahead and start suing some of those

people, start pursuing some of these folders, start looking into some of

these different cases, and then you start putting these people in jail,

demanding a refund, that is going to just send shockwaves throughout the

whole corruption situation and stop it.

And what happened to people's integrity, honesty and conscience? How could

you go home every day knowing you're whole -- you're 100 percent healthy

and you're getting free money from taxpayers? Go right from unemployment

to fake illnesses and injuries, going through the court system? Well, that

guy gets fat.

PERINO: Well, can I answer that in a little bit? I think that Dr. Coburn

had a really good answer on "60 Minutes" last night, to the point that if

you get $1,100 a month, it's not like you're living large. But a lot of

people, when they run out of their unemployment benefits, maybe say you're

58 years old. You're not old enough to qualify for your Social Security

yet. So you need a bridge, and people are going to have to eat. What

Senator Coburn says is why don't we just be honest about the problems in

our economy and try to fix those, rather than having a fraudulent program?

Social security disability program will cost American taxpayers in 2014,

$135 billion. ObamaCare's expected to cost $49 billion. I think that

Senator Coburn and his staff, who are the ones who did the investigation --

GUILFOYLE: Where is Holder and injustice department? I guess this wasn't

a stinky enough scandal for them?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: He did say expect a call from the DOJ of this guy, this Eric

Cullen last night. There's also --

GUILFOYLE: They have to investigate it.

BOLLING: Also, lawyers from law firm for Binder and Binder --

KILMEADE: You see their commercials, in 10 seconds.

BOLLING: Who said 50 percent of their claims they knew were B.S.

KILMEADE: And they know it. The thing is, Dana, they're not all 59 years

old look for a bridge. There's a lot of 39 years old looking for a free

pass to go fishing all day.

PERINO: I know. I'm just trying to be nice.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: There aren't enough lawyers at DOJ to investigate because we're

cutting them because of budget cuts.

PERINO: Good thing we have a lawyer right here, Kimberly Guilfoyle.

BECKEL: Yes, why don't you come back and work in the government?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, I'm sure Eric Holder --

PERINO: OK, we've got to go. He's yelling at me.

Exciting news for FIVE fans, we've got a brand-new web page. Check it out

at FOXNews.com/thefive. It is great.

Coming up, new information on terror raids by U.S. forces in Africa over

the weekend. What netted a terrorist we've been trying to find for 15

years. That and much more ahead on "The Five".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Over the weekend, American Special Forces carried out two

terror raids in Africa.

In Tripoli, Libya, the Army's Delta Force captured Abu Anas al Libi. We've

been trying to find him for 15 years for the 1998 bombings of the U.S.

embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.

And in Somalia, SEAL Team 6 reportedly tried to nab a top commander of the

Islamist group al Shabaab. They're responsible for the mall attack in

Kenya. Details on exactly what happened in that operation are still

developing.

So, this is a very interesting terror piece. The timing of it, some have

been a little bit skeptical about this happening. Because some information

that we have.

They knew about the whereabouts of these individuals, but what about the

timing?

KILMEADE: What about the timing? I'm fascinated by the fact that we

didn't knock on the door in Libya and say, excuse me, can we come in?

There's a terror attack or a terrorist in your midst, like we did on

Benghazi a year and a half ago, a month ago.

This time, we said, there's a guy inside, we're going to get him. And not

only that, we're not going to kill him, we're going to get him, we're going

to grab him. We're going to drug him and bring him on a ship. We might

even question him.

That sounds like an old policy I used to hear that was condemned and was

un-American. It made us look like a separate society, not the superpower

which we are.

So now, what concerns me is we're going to stop interrogating him when the

ship reaches New York City port. That's what's going to bother me. He

belongs to Gitmo.

GUILFOYLE: And then we're going to hire the best lawyer and then we're

going to have -- supposedly have violated his rights and we'll send him

home with a care package or something like that from 1800 --

BECKEL: That's going to be the longest boat trip you ever saw.

GUILFOYLE: Eric?

KILMEADE: I hope so.

BECKEL: It's going to make Christopher Columbus --

KILMEADE: Don't you hope it's a long one? You want to see him questions?

GUILFOYLE: That ain't a love boat, if you know what I mean.

KILMEADE: The pocket -- by the way, how many al Libis do we got? We have

like four al Libis. As soon as we capture one, we got another al Libi.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's like a terror tree.

KILMEADE: Yes, it's like terrorist/Libya. It's 1800 number to find out --

GUILFOYLE: But we can't still get the guys responsible for Benghazi.

What's going on with this? Eric Bolling?

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: In Libya, it's really not a country. I mean, it's totally run by

gangs. There's no sense of government to speak of.

In fact, I think they probably did get help from a few people in the

government there. Remember, the president of Libya was brought in from

Switzerland to take over. That country is an outlaw country. That's one

of the reasons it's pretty hard to get some of these people.

I give them a lot of credit, though. I think it's a lot -- all the drone

arguments, you know, I like drones, but if this works --

GUILFOYLE: OK, snatch and grab of a guy who has been there for how many

years?

BOLLING: Go get them, go after them by all means necessary but President

Obama --

(CROSSTAK)

PERINO: Maybe he has evolved. Maybe his position has evolved, which I'm

glad.

GUILFOYLE: Especially when he's getting bad poll numbers.

PERINO: Redskins.

KILMEADE: Are you worried about this Somali operation? I have a lot of

questions about that. I mean, SEAL Team 6 involved. It's got to be. It

looks like they penetrated in there. The guy's not there, now there's some

conflicting reports. Hopefully, we'll get the real story in an effort to

not hurt somebody that are civilians there or not be able to fight your way

out.

They had to bug out early because this guy wasn't there.

But there were other terrorists that we could have captured but in the risk

for getting civilians, we backed out early.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: And they had to leave without their targets.

GUILFOYLE: It sounds like they were pushed in quickly without a lot of

time to prepare. Like you said, the intel wasn't exactly as specific as it

should have been. So, there was other people in there that was going to

compromise the operation. They take heavy fire. They pull out.

And now what?

BECKEL: May I suggest Obama did this to get some political points?

GUILFOYLE: Ding, ding. The gentleman wins with the big elephant.

Dana, this is all you.

PERINO: No, she just said tease.

GUILFOYLE: I'm not listening.

PERINO: Fine. OK, look, I would say two things America doesn't forget. I

would say terrorists around the world, do not mistake America's domestic

problems for forgetting about this. Just two months ago, President Obama

and President Bush were together in Tanzania and they visited that

memorial. So, that was top of mind.

I would say I'm happy for these actions although I'm concerned that we are

very reactive. These are after events. What -- I'm curious what the

policy is to go forward to proactively prevent future terrorist attacks

like the mall attack in Kenya.

And I think capturing these people and questioning them for the longest

boat ride in history is the best way to do it.

KILMEADE: Yes, put them on the pinta or the Santa Maria.

GUILFOYLE: Cruise around the bay.

All right. That was really thoughtful --

PERINO: Aren't you glad I got a chance to talk?

GUILFOYLE: I'm glad we made time for it, because directly ahead, President

Obama inserts himself into the middle of the debate over whether the

Washington Redskins should change their name. But does he have his facts

right? We're going to report and you can decide when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KILMEADE: All right. There are a lot of things that need changing right

now in the nation's capital. But is the name of the Redskins need to

change? President Obama thinks so. He just jumped into the controversial

debate over that name.

Let's listen together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If I were the owner of the team, and I knew that there was a name

of my team, if it had a storied history, that was offending a sizable group

of people, I'd think -- I'd think about changing. Native Americans feel

pretty strongly about it. And I don't know whether our attachment to a

particular name should override, you know, the real legitimate concerns

that people have about these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: Let's tell the Braves and Blackhawks, the president wants your

name to change.

Lanny Davis, a Democrat, an Obama supporter, is also the attorney for the

Redskins and he fired back on a morning show called "FOX & FRIENDS".

BECKEL: What's that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANNY DAVIS, ATTORNEY FOR THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS: President Obama has

better things to worry about, but he should look at the Chicago Blackhawks

who won the Stanley Cup and he's never said a word.

He's unaware of the data. He's expressing an opinion. He happens to be

wrong and not knowing about the data. If he knew about the data, I'm

looking forward to him saying, you know, now that I know from him about the

data, I favor the Washington Redskins because there's not a sizable group

on my own criteria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: Eric, there was a protest today at an NFL owners meeting by an

Indian group, a Native American group, wanting the name change.

BOLLING: Lanny is a very good friend of mine. He also pointed out --

GUILFOYLE: He supports you, too?

BOLLING: He's a supporter of President Obama.

However, there's a 2004 study that polled Native Americans, 9 out of 10

said they're cool with the name. By the way, you bump that with the song

that says hail to the Redskins. Hail. Salute. We respect you.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: President Obama, listen, you want to close the ocean, go ahead.

You want to make sure World War II veterans don't go to the memorial?

That's fine. But don't mess with the NFL and don't shut down the

interwebs.

GUILFOYLE: Haven't they had enough pain?

BECKEL: I lived in Washington for 30 years and we had this argument every

single year. It probably does not help to have the president of the United

States enter into it. There are protests by Indian groups every year at

the Redskins headquarters. We have this debate. We go through it and

nothing changes.

Better idea, think about something else to worry about. Not the name of

the Washington Redskins.

KILMEADE: And Daniel Schneider is not going to change the name. He said

flat out, as long as I own the team, it's not changing. I'm not giving in.

PERINO: And he's such a well-liked guy.

KILMEADE: Right.

PERINO: The thing is if President Obama thinks that Redskins is offensive

to people, you should hear what he thinks about Republicans. Holy cow.

I wonder if we would be having this conversation if it was red necks. We

probably would not.

KILMEADE: Probably not.

GUILFOYLE: Now, you've done it, Dana.

KILMEADE: What about the Fighting Irish? I'm offended every day.

PERINO: No one cares about the red necks, do they?

GUILFOYLE: That sounds like Irish people just fight all day long.

KILMEADE: Exactly.

BECKEL: Because they're drunk all day long.

GUILFOYLE: You know, Bob, now you've offended just about everybody on the

planet. Unbelievable.

KILMEADE: Peter King, he's a writer, not the congressman, is no longer

call them the Redskins. Only the Washington football team. "Slate"

magazine also, (INAUDIBLE) two legendary Redskins are thinking about

pushing for a name change.

Does that change anyone's opinion? Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, no. I just think the name is the name. Keep it

that way. I like it.

KILMEADE: Will the Braves have to change? The Cleveland Indians have to

change it, the Blackhawks --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Hundreds of college football programs.

GUILFOYLE: The Tomahawks. Come on.

KILMEADE: The Giants offends Shaquille O'Neal.

BECKEL: Probably the most popular former Redskin by far.

KILMEADE: Who?

BECKEL: Darrell Green. And he -- even with him getting in the middle of

it, it won't change the numbers.

BOLLING: Not Joe Theismann.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's Joe Theismann because he's got some personal issues,

but he's a great quarterback.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: All right. So the Redskins name stays by the power --

PERINO: I would wait until they have a really, really bad season.

KILMEADE: Like this year?

BECKEL: Like this year, yes.

GUILFOYLE: You mean like the giants are having? Oh, gosh.

KILMEADE: I am just shocked that the president factors himself into this.

That factors himself into the professional --

PERINO: He could have taken a pass and he chose not to.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: What about a football metaphor?

KILMEADE: As a Giants fan, can't believe it's happening.

BOLLING: First place, two and three.

BECKEL: First place, two and three, amazing.

KILMEADE: All right, when we come back, a look at all the highlights from

the past weekend. Only kidding.

Hey, straight ahead, there are new updates on the motorcycle mob attack in

New York City, including the first interview with the biker accused of

starting it all when "The Five" returns 16 minutes until the top of the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: An update on the biker mob attack in New York City last month.

Yesterday, one of the motorcyclists caught on video smashing the window of

an SUV was in court. Reginald Chance flipped off reporters as he walked

into the courtroom.

Turns out, he's had 21 prior arrests. Meanwhile, we're hearing for the

first time from the 28-year-old biker accused of starting the bloody

attack. Here's Christopher Cruz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER CRUZ, BIKER: I think I feel responsible, but I don't feel -- I

do feel bad for the family that got hurt. I didn't think I was doing

anything wrong, just turning into another lane. My intention was never to

make him stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about what happens next?

CRUZ: Yes, I am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think you can win this case?

CRUZ: I don't know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, now he's crying? Please.

BECKEL: Yes, hey, Chris, buddy, read between the lines, OK. The --

GUILFOYLE: Bob, you are so clever sometimes.

BECKEL: I had to get around it because the producer said couldn't flip him

the bird.

GUILFOYLE: Well, obviously.

BECKEL: Eric, do you think -- I understand there may have been a cop

involved in this, too, this gang.

BOLLING: First of all, Cruz, you weren't trying to make a lane change.

That video --

KILMEADE: Look over your left shoulder. That is perfect.

BOLLING: That's a lane change, yes, right.

Anyway, so here is the issue. We looked at the brain room, NYPD, tough job

all the time. However, when you're off duty undercover cops have the

responsibility if they see a crime to immediately report it. Uniform

police have responsibility even off duty to get involved to take action.

Neither one of those things happened.

So, a little tarnishing on the badge. They need to get it cleaned up

quickly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but he's on modified duty, but that is shameful, it is

conduct unbecoming. I would come down on him like a ton of brick. That is

not acceptable. Commissioner will not appreciate that kind of behavior.

KILMEADE: What about the revelation, Dana, that they came to the

passenger's side where the wife was with the kid and tried to pry that door

open.

PERINO: It's so frightening.

Do you remember last week when we were talking about three strikes and

you're outlaw in California and there were a few people who said we should

get rid of it and I said I don't know, maybe we should. This is a perfect

example of why three strikes and you're out was actually instituted in the

first place because you had repeat offenders like this who eventually cause

so much harm.

They're calling Lien, the driver, the victim. I actually think the wife

and the child are just as much victims in this. I don't know what sort of

harm they will have psychologically for a long time. But they were victims

of this, too.

BECKEL: You know, these guys have been driving up and down the west side

highway for years, this gang. And there is one very simple thing to do.

You take a spike belt and run it across the West Side Highway as they're

coming down, and that will take care of it.

PERINO: What about the other drivers?

BECKEL: This one guy was selling drugs outside of a high school in

Brooklyn. They went to his apartment. They found guns and drugs in his

apartment and he still walked. Now, come on, I mean, I'm a liberal on a

lot of things, but not on something like that.

The guy should not have walked. He should be in jail, or he should have

his motorcycle spiked.

KILMEADE: But now they have the paralyzed guy talking and Gloria Allred

making him a sympathetic figure.

GUILFOYLE: Representing him.

KILMEADE: So, now, this is not going to be any lay up for the driver for

the Land Rover.

BECKEL: Gloria Allred only got two reasons for doing this. Either she

wants the money or she wants --

GUILFOYLE: No, don't say that.

PERINO: I like Kimberly's answer that if she were representing the

defendant who flipped the bird to the courtroom, what would you have done

to him in front of the judge?

GUILFOYLE: Swift kick under the table. See what happens if --

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: He made a joke and he got put 60 days in jail.

BECKEL: Yes, well, not enough --

GUILFOYLE: I don't know why Gloria is representing these guys.

BECKEL: You had a rough today. So, in respect to that, I'm going to say

"One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you, gentleman Bob.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All righty. Time for "One More Thing". Five people, four

minutes.

Dana's first.

PERINO: OK. We mentioned earlier that "The Five" is going to be on the road

tomorrow. We're going to Washington, D.C. Why you asked. Well, there is

a special reason.

We're going to go down. We're going to do the show at 3: 0. It won't be

live. But anyway, it will be up-to-date.

We're going because tomorrow night there is a very special dinner in honor

of Bob, and it is being given by Caron Treatment Center and he's getting

the alumni award for all of his hard work of being sober all of these

years. And we felt like it was really important for the show to be there

to support him. There is a very generous benefactor that got the table for

us and we're excited to be there for you, Bob, tomorrow night.

BOLLING: Yes, we wouldn't miss it for the world.

GUILFOYLE: Your years of advocacy and the impact you've had on other

people's lives.

BOLLING: You're one more thing?

BECKEL: It's nice for you to come.

My one more thing is for all the heat that federal workers often take

around the country, I want to point out that there are a lot of them

working today, they will get paid eventually. It's true. But they could

stay home and not get paid.

But those not working, air traffic controller, federal courts, Federal

Reserve, U.S. Postal Service, those are the part of the government, NASA,

military personnel, prisons remain open, trademark office, on and on and

on. You'd be saluted, you're good people, you work hard, you serve this

country and you serve this country well. And I congratulate you.

BOLLING: And you will be paid.

All right. So, there is a big debate going on in Washington. President

Obama -- whether or not to give him another trillion dollars of our money.

But let's refresh everyone's member about President Obama and his ideas of

debt ceiling. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a

credit card from the bank of China in the name of our children, driving up

our national debt. That's irresponsible. It's unpatriotic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Yes, one more thing, from March 16th, 2006, we went back in the

archives, this is President Obama on the Senate floor -- I'm sorry, Senator

Barack Obama on the Senate floor.

Quote, "The fact we're here take to debate raising America's get limit is a

sign of leadership failure. Leadership means the buck stops here. I

therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."

So what is it, President Obama?

BECKEL: Do you want to bet any Republican that's going to be nominee in

2016 will be against the debt limit?

BOLLING: Brian Kilmeade is --

KILMEADE: All right. So, here we go -- Condoleezza Rice in the eye of the

storm because she was named to the college football playoff committee,

that's going to start having a college playoff, the final four in 2014. b

When her name was brought up and she's a member of the panel and she said

yes, this is what David Pollak of ESPN said. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID POLLAK, ESPN: I want people on this committee, guys that can --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Play football.

POLLAK: Yes, that are around football, that can tell you different teams

on tape, not on paper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, no woman belongs on the committee is that correct

what you said?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Does that mean they don't belong on the sidelines doing all the

reporting?

KILMEADE: Yes, he believes and a lot of people are offended by women don't

belong on that committee. She's very schooled in football.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: She knows more than he does.

BOLLING: K.G., let's get it --

GUILFOYLE: I have a happy story about a machete wielding clerk. This

cheers my day up. Take a look at this.

So, this guy goes into rob this deli, right? He actually fires a shot

nearly shoots the clerk, goes into the wall. The guy is like you want to

try me out? Kind of like Raiders of the Lost Arc, you know, Harrison Ford,

whips out the machete. This goes to get car (INAUDIBLE) like Thanksgiving.

The guy runs away crying for his mama. That's it.

KILMEADE: And the play by play.

BOLLING: Very good. That was awesome.

All right. We're going to have to leave it there. That's it for us

tonight.

Don't forget to catch us on the debut of the "Kelly File" tonight. Set

your DVRs for tomorrow. "The Five" is in Washington, D.C.

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