Gruber who? White House logs at odds with Obama denial

Published Monday, November 17, 2014 / The Five
With Dana Perino , Kimberly Guilfoyle , Bob Beckel , Eric Bolling , Dana Perino

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 17, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, this jokester, it's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Jonathan Gruber, who? The MIT professor was integral in helping craft President Obama signature legislation, but the president can't seem to remember him now that videos has surfaced at Gruber, admitting, Americans were deceived about ObamaCare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I just heard about this, I get well briefed before I come out here. The fact that some adviser, who never worked on our staff, expressed an opinion that I completely disagree with, in terms of the voters is no reflection on the actual process that was run. The one thing we can't say is that we did not have a lengthy debate about health care in the United States of America, or that it was not adequately covered.


PEIRNO: The professor, on the other hand remembers President Obama very well.


JONATHAN GRUBER, OBAMACARE ARCHITECT: Now, the problem is it's a political nightmare, and people say no, you can't tax my benefits, it feels like -- so, what we did in that room was think about, well, how could, talk about well how could we this work? And Obama's like well, you know -- I mean he's really a realistic guy. Look, I can't just do this, he said, it's just not going to happen politically. The bill in my pass, how can we manage to get there through phases and other things, and we talked about it, and which is very interested in that topic. And once again, that hopefully can make adjust in what's called the Cadillac tax.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: According to the White House visitor's log, Gruber visited in nearly 20 times to the White House and the president, Eric, says that he is very well briefed, every day, and that was just yesterday, this has been going on for a week, he said he's just heard about it, do you think that anyone told him today that the Gallup poll had ObamaCare down to 37 percent approval?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: A record low.

PERINO: A record.

BOLLING: The lowest spent. So, the president apparently gets well briefed because he watches ABC and NBC, but he fails to watch Fox, because if he had watched Fox, we would have told him about Gruber a really, really long time ago. The pack of lies that they keep throwing us, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your insurance, it's not a tax, I don't know who Gruber is, those were all -- fine, I mean, you can say that all you want. The problem is, when the other part of the law, is the cost part of it, and when they said it was going to bend the cost care down, this whole ObamaCare was for individuals, it's not. They said it was gonna reduce premiums by $2,500 per family, it's actually gone up by $2,500 and the worst one was when they said, first it was gonna help the deficit, remember? And they said, well, maybe I help, it will be deficit neutral. Then it was only cost $300 billion and now, they're up to -- I don't know, maybe a trillion dollars or so. So, they perpetrated all these lies as big hopes and the costs keep going up and that's where I have the problem.

PERINO: Kimberly, is it -- do you think it's possible that the president didn't know about this? And doesn't know who Gruber is? He doesn't remember him, I'm not sure what's worse is that, he doesn't remember and he had him there to help him, and he was sitting there side by side working on ObamaCare or, that he did know and that he sort of tried to fudge it yesterday?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well, either way is bad, that this is again the president trying to distance himself from Gruber now, but the fact remains that he was in the oval office with him. I believe that the president knows exactly who he is and now he's just trying to put some distance because it's bad for him. And he said that he's a minor consultant -- I mean, please, I want to be a minor consultant for ObamaCare. Because $400,000 and in fact.


GUILFOYLE: No, no, right, and $2 million in other additional contract with them. So, this is somebody who was regularly getting paid out by the taxpayer's money, but President Obama wants to call him a minor consultant.


PERINO: About that's a part of kind of, ruffle your feathers today, if I could talk about that. But even, Gruber basically was working with President Obama to deceive taxpayers on legislation from which he would handsomely profit later on.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, first of all, let me just say.

PERINO: Using our money.

BECKEL: Our money was used from the year 2000 to 2008, I think, or 2010 or whatever. So, it wasn't just under Obama, but neither at that side I choose to believe the president of the United States. I don't believe, I'm going to side with Greg on this, this is one of those liberal professors from some think tank somewhere, that shoots his mouth off and doesn't know what he's talking about and I don't -- I just don't believe for a second that Obama is going to go out there and say, I don't know this guy and he really does. I just -- and the other thing Obama said, and this is important, this Cadillac tax was debated over and over again, Republicans kept raising it over and over again and nobody listened.

PERINO: However, no, I disagree with that, because if you read today in the Wall Street Journal, Tevi Troy, he was a former colleague of mine, he was the House care experts explains, what Gruber is saying on that Cadillac tax is that, the lie was to tell the American people it was only going to hit the rich, when they knew all along, that the middle class would end up getting that tax hike as well.

BECKEL: Yeah, but it -- that was surveillance. (ph) We heard that over, I heard that, he's probably gonna said no, from him.

PERINO: We were saying that and we were told we were crazy. That is the lie.

BECKEL: But doesn't the reason she's crazy about.

BOLLING: But it seems, he's the president for saying, ah, kind of rings the bell, no really sure when we pay them. Anywhere between $400,000 or $6 million. By the way, there's a new sound that they just uncovered on President Obama in 2006 saying, he knows Gruber.

BECKEL: At first.

PERINO: He knows the video with them.

BOLLING: He's going to be -- he said he was gonna pull ideas from Gruber. Were gonna hear that later.

BECKEL: Wait a second. I want to hear the expert, the professors' say about this, Greg.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, for one thing, President Obama was right, there was debate on this. However, the debate was rig, it was a fixing card games, because the players and the House were all in on it. Whenever there was a debate about ObamaCare, there are people legitimately asking questions about whether or not this is real, whether they were lying, and they were always told no, mark by the media. So, yes, it was a debate, but the debate was completely rig. However, I'm thinking that you feel really bad for Gruber because, he might needs some serious therapy when you think about the fact that, he's met all of these people. Everybody he's met him, 20 times and nobody remembers him, that's got to be hell on your self esteem that nobody knows who you are. You know who he is? It's like Beetlejuice, you know, you can't say his name, if you say his name three times, you get chaos, actually it's more like -- remember the Bloody Mary urban legend, if you say Gruber three times in front of a mirror, you lose your health care.

PERINO: I thought of that today, it's like the Spartans, which basically -- if you disgraced yourself in battle.


PERINO: When you came back, nobody would talk to you, they would pretend that they didn't know you, they would look around you and tell you -- basically you left, this side.

GUTFELD: Would you? The bigger -- here's the bigger point, President Obama is the first surfer president we've ever had. He rides every single crisis to shore and he's standing up when he gets there, that surf board is the media, each week there's a new wave and he makes it through, and the point is, the Republicans have to figure out like, how do you break this constant pattern? You have to concentrate on the board and not on the president. You have to go after the media that is allowed all of these scandals to happen, allows President Obama to keep cruising on to the beach every week into some new scandal.


BOLLING: Allow me?


BOLLING: Can I follow up on Greg?

BECKEL: Please, sure.

BOLLING: That's the reason why you get frustrated what we keep talking about Jonathan Gruber, and we keep talking about President Obama claiming to not know who this Gruber guy is. Literally, we have another tape that we're gonna show later on the show of Obama saying, now I do I know Gruber. I know a lot -- we took some of Gruber's ideas and we implement it.

GUILFOYLE: How you think he can project the analysis.

BOLLING: So, he could say one thing today in 2014. But, in 2009, 2010, he was singing completely different tune.

PERINO: Does it, this is.

BECKEL: Maybe he didn't know he had relations with that woman.


PERINO: Exactly.

GUTFELD: Exactly done.

PERINO: The long one.


PERINO: It's basically like the word went out, nobody talk about this guy. Secretary Sebelius was at the private speaking about that Kimberly.


PERINO: And she was asked by a reporter to comment on Gruber, and she said, "Oh yeah, I'm not gonna comment on that." She's not holding to anybody anymore. Here's what I wonder.

GUILFOYLE: Is it Mark?

PERINO: If they had just been honest with to the American people, that we would -- this is the kind of coverage we think we need for America, it might cost you more, you might have to change doctors, when they had the majority in congress, if they're going to ram the bill through anyway, why not just do it with honesty and get the results so they don't have to deal with it now, I mean, it would have passed, it would have passes anyway, they have the majority.

GUILFOYLE: Because, that kind of honesty and credibility is foreign to them, it's not how they operate. There's still in within that Chicago campaign mode, of how you get things done. It is better to pull something over on someone than trying do it and take a chance, that maybe, the American people, want to be generous, want to be magnanimous, and if you tell them the truth and explain it. If it's that good, you should be able to sell it them. Explain the concept.

BOLLING: There were Democrats that were not in favor of ObamaCare, remember that?

PERINO: Well, 39 Democrats voted against.

BOLLING: Right. So, they, maybe that's why they had to perpetrate this.

PERINO: It's not very many though.

BECKEL: You know, you can keep talking about this -- and what a stealth operation this is, these guys are geniuses to get away with all this. If I'm not mistaken, the Wall Street Journal ran editorial to editorial of the -- you can't call it a small favor or news allied. And talking about a Cadillac tax, the middle class, the vat tax (ph) all that stuff.

PERINO: And they were told they were wrong.

GUTFELD: You have this.

BECKEL: Almost so what?

PERIMO: Well -- now they prove -- but now they're saying that the Wall Street Journal was right all the time, but if you're right, we did lie and -- Gruber is basically confirming everything that to the Wall Street Journal has said.

BECKEL: But, if the Wall Street Journal said back then, that means there was debate, they will argue in the other side, right?

GUTFELD: You know, but.

BECKEL: It's a major allied.


GUTFELD: No, but the point is there was this anybody who argued this was dismissed.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Immediately it was Obama's pan, non stick cooking spray, there's no way he could get around it.


BECKEL: You can't consider the Wall Street Journal --

GUTFELD: No, no. The point is.

PERINO: And is not the Wall Street Journal Bob, it's conservatives who were against the bill and then were told that they were lying.


PERINO: That the Cadillac tax would never apply to the middle class. And think, of course it had to, just look at the facts. They didn't want to talk about the facts, and now, and now their numbers aren't bearing out, and it's video's surface, its truth, its proof that they lied.

BECKEL: So you think with this additional race is the Wall Street Journal, the conservatives, and they said, "Oh, you're lying." The American people said, I think they're lying.

GUTFELD: They were called racist too.

BECKEL: Yeah Greg, racist.

BOLLING: And you don't care about people without insurance, you only care about poor people, concern of what had to.

GUILFOYLE: Bearable.

PERINO: Well, I tell what's really bad.

BOLLING: All of that based on this lie that Gruber is now telling us that he worked out with the administration.

PERINO: Not only that, but, Bob, and Eric.

BOLLING: Don't you see the problem with that.

PERINO: Think about this.

GUILFOYLE: It was granulated (ph)

PERINO: But they used his model to deceive the Congressional Budget Office so that it would not be scored in the way that Eric is talking about. He's saying that they deliberately gave bad information to the Congressional Budget Office, to get the number that they wanted, and that is bad.

BECKEL: Do you've been around and watching or not as long as I have, we've been spend a lot of experiences, did you know anybody who could pull something like this off?


PERINO: I know the Republicans couldn't pull it off because the media would never allow it. That's why you have to do things at low part (ph)

GUTFELD: There are two elements involve here, it's not just the Democratic Party, it is the media that is -- I've been the enablers, they are the surf board. President Obama is, without question, the most oblivious president we've ever had, he's not the president and he's out for the email (ph) man, and what we worry are his safe words. He doesn't have to care, he's already won re-election.


BECKEL: And we've already got ObamaCare.

GUTFELD: I just heard of that.

PERINO: That's why.

GUTFELD: But you even said that it's the law.

GUILFOYLE: It's like his action.

GUTFELD: How many times Bob, here, did you say, "Too late, it's the law."

BECKEL: It is the law.

GUTFELD: Yeah, so you don't care? He doesn't care.

BOLLING: But the utter arrogance.

GUILFOYLE: No, he doesn't care, he's like that.

BECKEL: I think it could be changed.

BOLLING: The arrogance -- forget the law, we hear, we get that. But the utter arrogance of saying, I don't remember him or he didn't have anything to do with this. And then Pelosi say, "I don't know who he is." And it's all over her Web site, she talks about John Kerry, President Obama, whose next, Bob? And it is insane, it's -- toe the White House.

BECKEL: Do you think there's a chance now, that every news organization, I'm not gonna ask people if, who were those rooms supposedly with Gruber, that he was there, and Obama's gonna be caught dead in a lie like that?

BOLING: I don't know. But you know what?

GUILFOYLE: I bet you there to selfie.

BOLLING: Don't say you don't know.

PERINO: And the selfie that.

BOLLING: Don't you say you don't recall the guy and Gruber.

BECKEL: And you really believe that you could get away with that?

PERINO: I saw the picture.

BOLLING: Oh yeah.

BECEKEL: Think they couldn't get away with get out -- you know in the road blocks, but I --

GUTFELD: But look at -- I mean, think about the IRS, think about Benghazi, think about the DOJ, think about fast and furious, there's a lot of things that this administration has gotten away with it, and why? Because, I go back to the broken record, the enablers and the media, who fabricated their responsibility and service to their master.

PERINO: Alright, we're going to leave it there. Next, the grand jury decision on the Michael Brown case looms in Ferguson. And police across the country are bracing for chaos, protesters have already taken to the streets in St. Louis. Kimberly has the latest coming up.


GUILFOYLE: The embattled city of Ferguson is on edge again, as a grand jury is expected to decide any moment whether police officer Darren Wilson will be indicted in the shooting death of Michael Brown. Protesters in St. Louis already on the street, have stage in dying, pretending to be shot. Cities nationwide are also bracing for demonstration. One person following this case very closely, President Obama, he met with Mitt Romney (ph) just like Al Sharpton in the day after the mid terms and told them to stay on course. I'm sure what that exactly, mean, say, this is we're waiting for the grand jury announcement to be made, we've kind of -- and we're all on alert, because, it's expected that there could be some serious repercussions depending on what their verdict is and what bill they issue. In fact, that they decide to charge the officer in this case. So, President Obama saying that to Al Sharpton, what do you make of that?


GUILFOYLE: Stay on course.

PERINO: Here's the thing, I don't think anyone should egg (ph) on a conflict here. Ferguson has been through a lot, there was -- I can't remember her name, just state senator from Missouri that was on Bill O'Reilly's show last week. And I hope that they follow her example of looking for justice and being smart and gracious and waiting for the grand jury to make its decision. The grand jury has been deliberating for quite a long time and I think you have to trust in the due diligence of everybody involved, the jurors as well as the prosecutors that are presenting evidence. And if the evidence is not there to have an indicted or conviction, then I hope that people would accept that.

GUILFOYLE: And respect the process, yeah. Bolling, (ph) indelible.

BOLLING: Well, my concern is that there's been so much animosity ginned up already, that no matter what it is, whether is not -- the grand jury decides not to indict, that might be considered reason to rise and cause trouble, or if there is an indictment and the officer is found not guilty.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Would that make them even more upset to people who are prone to protest and loot and get -- do some bad things. I don't know how you get out of it other than someone like Al Sharpton stepping up and saying, you know, call for common peace rather than doing what he was doing. And President Obama saying stays the course -- the course wasn't so good. The course was pretty darn bad over there, so a lot of -- you know, business owners with their windows broken, people got hurt. There's a lot of people doing a lot of bolts are flying, if that's the course they want to stay, let's hope that's not what he meant. Hopefully, he meant the course that we've had over the last, maybe month or so.

GUILFOYLE: Well, first and certainly will put Gruber off the front page. Greg.

GUTFELD: There should be legitimate protests if you feel that there was injustice. If you feel that -- police officer should go to jail or something. But, legitimate protests will always be targeted for opportunistic mayhem. This is the history of how communist cells worked social in cells worked in the United States. They, they, they look and they seek out a vulnerability, whether is unrest. They infiltrate and they create and foment violence, it's been done many times. The race is the media's bug lamp. That's another problem. When they rush to cover a single event, a single event in a small town of 370 million people, they run, they add so much weight, and that kind of weight that they put on this one crime or this one incident, demands spectacle. It's almost as if something doesn't happen, we are disappointed that something hasn't happen. We almost -- it's a self fulfilling chaos, by sending everybody there, which is why I think, we should hold back. The media should hold back, and you just say, you know what? You know a bad to that they employed this kind of emphasis on any other story, on any other crime, they don't, it's only racially hinged events that they do this.

GUILFOYLE: Like Trayvon Martin.

GUTFELD: Yeah, and it leads to certain polls in of chaos and disorder. It doesn't end well. It's a bug lamp that ends up hurting everybody.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I think you're right. And you know, Bob, do you always talk about, you know, Martin Luther King Jr. and you know, your family, and your respect for him. I have to tell you, I don't think he would be in support at all of this kind of, you know, chaos and race bating and what's been going on, it's very disrespective to the -- disrespectful to the judicial process, to the will of juries. I like to see someone step forward on behalf of, let's have a peaceful process and sure, protest if you want, but do it in a right way so, other lives aren't injured or put in danger.

BECKEL: The problem of course is you don't have a Martin Luther King anymore. And you've got this re-group of people who do -- do profit off of this, a lot of stuff. But, you know what Martin Luther King, this is sort of like what the kings has to deal with the black panthers. When Martin Luther King was trying to organize to do non violence protest and the panther started it up. And this, and this snake, the student non violent coordinate could be which is not exactly non violent. And King was constantly in this pressure fight back and forth, but he was big enough and strong enough and respected enough that he got away with it. Now, I don't see that happening. The other thing is, look, there are a lot of people in Ferguson who believe, no matter what this decision is they have firmly set in their minds that this kid was killed by a police officer. I happen to believe that myself.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he was.

BOLLING: That he was -- he was killed by a police officer.

GUILFOYLE: He was killed by a police officer.

BECKEL: But that kid murder by a police officer, should I say. There, there -- you're not gonna change their mind by --

GUTFELD: By facts?

BECKEL: No they, it wouldn't -- no, Greg, they won't. There's -- it won't happen that way.

BOOLING: And that was my point.

GUILFOYLE: Because, you believe in your mind no matter what that it was an unlawful killing?


BECKEL: No, I said, I look at this way. I look at -- you know that there are 99 percent of the police departments in this country, police officers in this country, are good, clean solid citizens. There is a percentage, which is in New York City, we saw in Los Angeles, where the police rioted. And the only -- look for video tape, you wouldn't had --

GUILFOYLE: About the police rioted?

EBCKEL: Don't with it. Do you remember what happened? What, what his name in Los Angeles?

GUILFOYLE: Rodney King.

BECKEL: He's Rodney King, like, if it hadn't been for the fact they had a videotape of King being beaten up.

GUILFOYLE: But Bob, I guess, I don't know how many times in history you want to then, you know, foist these sins as you see them on every officer this outbreak survey right now.

BECKEL: I guess, I said 99 percent.

GUILFOYLE: I know, but why -- just in case on individual basis.


BOLLING: But you also said no matter what happens, whether what the outcome is, unless there's an indictment and a conviction, there's gonna be problem, there's gonna be protest riots.

BECKEL: Because I just believe the black community that they has said enough of this and they believe it firmly, and no --

BOLLING: But that would be wrong.

GUILFOYLE: But it doesn't make it right.

BECKEL: Whatever facts come out, they're not going to believe the facts because the facts have been stacked against them for years and years.

BOLLING: I don't care.

GUTFELD: But I don't think. I think you might be confusing certain groups, I don't believe there are black groups involved in any of this disorder at all. I think its other groups, ideological groups, leftist groups that are there, that have showed up that they are there. Who see an opportunity to.

PERINO: For the pot.

GUTFELD: To stir the pot. Also, we have to be fair, that all riots are equal. I mean, we can get upset about what happens after this, but I don't -- did we do anything after the World Series? When there's stuff going on, I mean, there -- maybe people let off steam and that's where it ends, we hope.

GUILFOYLE: And then.

GUTFELD: And it happens elsewhere.

GUILFOYLE: And at this hour, as we've been speaking, National Guard has been called up to Ferguson, so we hope that this goes peacefully and no lives are lost. And before we go, a program mean no tomorrow night, a special guest is joining us here on to The Five, the man who killed Osama bin Laden, Navy SEAL, Rob O'Neill is gonna be right here with us, at this table and you definitely don't want to miss that.

Coming up, the man who plans to grant amnesty to millions of illegal makes a case against illegal immigration. You've heard that right, President Obama, he's on tape, next.


BOLLING: Somebody did hear about that guy who said he had anxiety about the wave of illegal immigrants flooding our southern border and the same guy, even admitted he felt resentment when he sees the Mexican flag waving at Pro immigration rallies, well, that's guy is not just some Republican. In fact, he's not even Republican -- you know what? This guy is not just some Democrat, he's a big democrat, a really, really big Democrat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: No denying that many blacks share the same anxieties as many whites about the wave of illegal immigration flooding our Southern border. The number of immigrants added to our labor force every year is of a magnitude not seen in this country for over a century. If this huge influx of mostly low-skill workers provides some benefits to the economy as a whole, it also threatens to depress further the wages of blue-collar Americans and put strains on an already overburdened safety net.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: And here's that resentment comment, when I see Mexican flags waved at pro-immigration demonstration, I sometimes feel a flush of patriotic resentment mention canning flags waved at pro-immigration demonstrations I sometimes feel a flush of patriotic resentment when I'm forced to use a translator to communicate with the guy fixing my car, I feel a certain frustration. President Barack Obama in his own words, sort of 2006 because he involved on immigration, I guess. Bob, I got to go to you on this one, wow.

BECKEL: Really?

BOLLING: Wow. A little different tune than a President Obama who's says, "Let's sign in 4 1/2 million, 5 million people.

BECKEL: I -- this is just true. I mean, when you have an influx of illegal- - people crossing the border, undocumented workers, it does suppress the --


BECKEL: Just hang on a second, can I finish this? Can I finish?

BOLLING: Please.

BECKEL: Thank you. Just over a century ago when the Irish came here and flooded in here, the market, do they drove blue-collar wages down and they put a lot of pressure on the goals back then.


BOLLING: OK. I remember you say, I remember you say, it's the Americans don't want those jobs anyway.

BECKEL: No, no, no. What I'm saying is, in the long run, they would be beneficial citizens of this country.

BOLLING: K.G., were you surprised when he said, "I have to use a translator for the guy fixing my car." That's a little derogatory, is it not?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, obviously. It's very disrespectful. It's an awful statement to make in front of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) like that. I mean, honestly.

BOLLING: Really?

GUILFOYLE: What do you want me to tell you? It's horrible. But you know, this just goes to show you, when you have this kind of manufacture of a candidate and you shape them and you put words in, and you put it out in front, this is what you're going to get. That's going to be on tape, and the truth is going to come out. Now what are you going to do?

BECKEL: If your computer breaks down, you've got to talk to a call center in India. I can't understand what those people talk about.

BOLLING: Greg, he's evolved on a bunch of things.

GUILFOYLE: You're trying to help him, right?

BOLLING: Yes. He's evolved on...

GUTFELD: You know what's interesting? Here's the biggest problem with immigration. There are two people I trust when I go for -- when I'm looking for answers: Mickey Couse (ph) and Jason Riley. Mickey Couse (ph) says high immigration will hurt employment. Jason Riley says high immigration coincides with low unemployment, because it will increase demands for goods and services.

So you're -- it's a weird place to be. I think that half of it is true that, like over time, it helps.


GUTFELD: But in the initial influx, if it's cheap labor, what it does is if you're against economic inequality, importing the world's poor means you're supplying a whole better -- you know, amount of poor people on one end of that equation, which just makes the equality even worse. So that's why, like, an amnesty seems so stupid. And why orderly immigration makes so much sense. Why we are for orderly immigration. We want people in line to come in. Blanket amnesty immediately, I think, might be a shock to the system. And politically turning immigration into a voting block device hasn't helped.

BOLLING: And D.P., you talk about the tone of those comments?

PERINO: Well, here's the danger of not knowing your boss's previous statements, right? I mean, if you're later on in the year, so this is the sixth year of the presidency and you might not know what your boss said before when he was a state senator or a governor or in his book, so you need to read that stuff.

He might have evolved on the issue, you're allowed to do that. But here they have a monumental task in front of them on communications, if they expect to get this done. Something this big, that is captured -- everybody's paying attention to it, means that all hands must be on deck at the White House and throughout the administration. No mistakes, no time for anybody else. You better figure out a way to get this done.

The problem is for them, voters are burning up the phone lines on Capitol Hill to both Republican and Democratic offices saying you better do something to make sure that this doesn't happen, so they have a -- they have a really big task in front of them. And they have so many problems, including our own national security, that they've got to be focused on, as well.

BECKEL: One of the things -- there's not going to be immigration legislation in Obama's last two years. It's not going to happen.

And the other -- the Senate passed an immigration bill. Let' not forget that. The Democratic Senate. And the House refused to deal with it. Now, and that's Republican. What makes you think that more Republicans are going to deal with an immigration bill?

PERINO: Well, they might not, but...

BOLLING: Do you want to debate immigration? Or do you want to debate...

PERINO: I have a tactical question. So when President Bush in 2005 tried to get Social Security passed, Social Security reform, to provide private accounts, and six months into it, he realized it was not going to happen. Even his own party was starting to say, "Whoa, look, we are not for this." What he did is to say, "You know what? I gave it my best shot. It didn't happen. It's the will of the people," and we moved on to another subject.

I don't think that's necessarily the best thing for the country. I think that privatization of part of the Social Security program would have been smart. But tactically, as a president, it was a better thing to do as a leader. I think President Obama is making a huge tactical mistake that will hurt his presidency on every other issue.

BECKEL: But the difference is that George Bush could not have, by executive order, changed the Social Security system. Right? Obama, whether you -- the courts will decide this. He is going to do it by executive order.

PERINO: But why put all...

BECKEL: And more power to him.

PERINO: Then why put all those people in jeopardy to and say, "OK, we're going to give you amnesty for three years until the Supreme Court tells us you're not allowed"? I don't think that's better.

BECKEL: it's either that or worry about somebody knocking on your door and asking for a green.

BOLLING: Do you think he believes that the best thing for the country is to give -- provide amnesty to 4 or 5 million people?

BECKEL: I would. Certainly, I would.

BOLLING: Do you think he believes that?

BECKEL: I don't know what he believes, but I believe...

BOLLING: Those comments that he just spoke, in his "Audacity of Hope," isn't that the name of the book? Those don't conflict what he's saying now?

BECKEL: No, but I mean, I agree with Dana.

BOLLING: How about yes, they do?

BECKEL: No. No. What is true, I think what he was saying -- this is my interpretation of it -- is what I believe, too, an influx of people quickly into the workforce, one out of four people hanging wall board in this country are undocumented workers. Now, that suppresses the value of a wall, but it's a tough job. But nonetheless, over time, they will produce; and they will pay taxes, and they'll be fine.

GUTFELD: You know what's amazing, though?

BECKEL: And you'll be able to...


BECKEL: You'll have Obama do your lawn. That's the thing.

BOLLING: President Obama evolved in eight years. You evolved in, like, eight minutes.

PERINO: Eight minutes. Bob Beckel, ladies and gentlemen.

BECKEL: You're going to be able to get your lawn done by somebody who's got a green card.

GUTFELD: This is an interesting point, that there is a reversal going on in ideologies where you have conservatives who normally would be salivating over cheap labor coming out against this, and you have liberals who should be condemning it who are saying it's a great opportunity, even though it might hurt the poor.

BOLLING: All right. That's interesting.

PERINO: Sum up.

BOLLING: History was made last week when a spacecraft landed on a commit. But feminists didn't notice. They were only focused on what one of the scientists who worked on the mission was wearing. Greg's got that next.


GUTFELD: Last week some scientists landed a probe on a comet 300 million miles away. Big deal? Who cares? One of the scientists, Matt Taylor, wore a butt-ugly shirt featuring scantily-clad women. The attire drew ire. One astrophysicist tweeted, "You think a shirt like this makes women feel welcome? I don't."

A website called the apparel "casual misogyny" that stops women from entering science. It got much, much worse, so Taylor atoned on Friday. It's not pretty.


MATT TAYLOR, SCIENTIST WHO WORKED ON PROBE LANDING ON COMET: A shirt I wore this week, I made a big mistake, and I offended many people. I'm very sorry about this.


BECKEL: Why do we keep filming that?

BECKEL: Oh, my God. I'd vomit, but this is a family show. So a man lands a probe on a comet, something no one else has ever done, and he's reduced to tears over a shirt. Thank you, Twitter, for turning the world into a bully chamber.

It used to be one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. Now it's one angry tweet trumps an awesome feat. And so the absurdity of modern outrage has reached a brand-new apex. In one universe, a man achieves greatness, but in another petty one he's humiliated.

Was the shirt sexist? No. Tacky? Yes. Clearly, the man needs help picking out shirts. Surprise: Rocket scientists are dorks. They care more about the world than their wardrobe. Yet the shirt got more space than space. And bloggers got their scalp of contrition. A man wept, and progress took a back seat to petulance.

So why bother sending rockets at all? Seriously, do earthlings deserve the effort when they savage those who try? Maybe we don't deserve Matt Taylor. We do deserve Twitter, a world where trending is cooler than doing, and 140 characters replaces our own.

PERINO: Wow, sing it again. Sing it again.

GUTFELD: Is the most depressing story ever?

PERINO: Yes, it's depressing. It's infuriating. First of all, the woman -- the shirt he was wearing was made for him by his friend, who is a woman.

GUTFELD: I know.

PERINO: Who is a tattoo artist. And you're right. There's also the story about the woman who's complaining that man that -- her co-anchor wore the same suit every day of the year, and nobody complained. Women have got to get a grip. Got to get a grip. It's terrible.

GUTFELD: Eric, we wouldn't wear that shirt on "The Five" because someone in wardrobe would call us -- would call us immediately.

GUILFOYLE: Gwen. Gwen would be like, "What?"

GUTFELD: And we'd be -- we'd be there going, "What the hell are you doing?"

However, the guy put a tiny thing on a giant thing, millions of miles away.

BOLLING: Sixty thousand miles an hour, they landed it on a comet. Are you kidding? And then he's crying. He's crying that he was so sorry, because he made a mistake?

GUILFOYLE: That's how mean people are.

BOLLING: You didn't make a mistake. You just achieved an amazing feat. Be proud of that.

Your best line: "Rocket scientists are dorks." That was one of your best monologues ever.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

BOLLING: Really. Let's not appease those feminists.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's sad. Bob...


GUTFELD: ... did he deserve all of this? Should he have apologized?

BECKEL: The best part of that is the last, which is he should not have gotten on there and apologized and wept and all that.

BECKEL: I certainly wouldn't. You're right. If a bunch of broads started to hit me on what I'm wearing, I wouldn't do -- I wouldn't do that.

But the point is...

GUILFOYLE: This was going so well.

BECKEL: I did that on purpose, OK? I did it on purpose, and we can both beat that thing. Don't even think about beeping that.

OK. Now, it's amazing to me, Greg, to listen to you talk about this thing. It was a very good monologue, but if you're -- if this story had not had that story, you would have been screaming about wasting money landing on a rock.

GUTFELD: I love space travel.

BECKEL: You would have.

BOLLING: You know what? It wasn't even ours. I don't think we spent any money.

GUTFELD: Yes. It was the European Space Agency.

PERINO: They spent it on their military.

GUILFOYLE: It's all about, you know, other people's...

GUTFELD: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: It's all about other people's money for space now. Yes.

GUTFELD: What this man needs is he needs kind of...

GUILFOYLE: I know what he needs.

GUTFELD: He needs a makeover.

GUILFOYLE: I can tell you what he needs.

BECKEL: I bet you he thinks so, too.

GUILFOYLE: He needs a real woman in his life, not on his shirt, I'll tell you that much. Poor guy.

GUTFELD: Yes. But I don't know. This is all. I guess my point is, people -- it's easy now in this world of Twitter. That's achievement. It's going after somebody as opposed to this poor guy that actually did something.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he -- I mean, the poor guy. I don't think he's faking it. He's very upset. He's been bullied. He feels shamed now.

And by the way, he was trying to do something nice. He's wearing a shirt that his friend made him.

GUTFELD: It's an ugly shirt.

GUILFOYLE: That's like everyone yelling at me if I wear a shirt that my grandmother made me or something. Yes, it's not the best shirt ever, but it makes sense when you hear the context which Dana provided.

BECKEL: Yes, but...

GUILFOYLE: That his friend was a tattoo artist, and those are the images of women many times that go on someone's body.

BECKEL: But there are women who would be upset by that.

GUILFOYLE: I understand.

BECKEL: There are women who think that's a bad thing to do. I can't fault that.

GUILFOYLE: I understand. I do.

PERINO: Were they upset when Melissa Harris Perry wore tampon earrings on her news show?


GUTFELD: That's a good point. Well, one's -- never mind.

GUILFOYLE: I don't want to hear that out of anybody's mouth again.

BOLLING: Did you beep that? Tell me you beeped that.

GUTFELD: How does that happen? Anyway, watch your mouth.


GUILFOYLE: ... segment.

GUTFELD: Ahead, President Obama claims he didn't know ObamaCare architect Jonathan Gruber. But we now have tape proving otherwise, from the president himself. Next.


PERINO: Welcome back to "The Five." Bob just gave me this block to do.

As we mentioned earlier, the president yesterday dismissed ObamaCare architect Jonathan Gruber as just some advisor, who was never on his staff who he doesn't agree with. Interestingly, we just found tape of him in 2006 when he was senator talking about Gruber in a very different light. Watch this.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've already drawn some of the brightest minds from academia and policy circles. Many of them I've stolen ideas from liberally. People ranging from Robert Gordon to Austan Goolsbee, to Jon Gruber, my dear friend Jim Wallace here, who can talk, I think -- who can inform what are sometimes dry policy debates with a prophetic voice.


PERINO: Kimberly, the former prosecutor, if you were putting together this case, what one piece of evidence did you just notice?

GUILFOYLE: My aha moment was when President Obama didn't look down and read the name of Gruber. He looked right into the crowd and said it, because he knows him.

PERINO: See, this is why you want Kimberly as your lawyer, Bob.

BECKEL: Now I tell you, the guy was giving a speech at Brookings. Everybody -- the staff gave him a bunch of names of people who were going to be sitting around.

GUILFOYLE: And he didn't read it off the page. He looked right up and said it.

BECKEL: He was looking down at that page versus the whole time. I mean, you going to jump on the guy because he says the guy's name?

PERINO: Bob, are you on the Democratic band wagon that they don't know who Gruber is?

BECKEL: I don't know -- I don't know who Gruber is. I don't care who he is. I think he's a jerk, if you want to know the truth, to say that kind of stuff. I mean, if it's true, if you were covering that thing up, then keep your mouth shut.

PERINO: Do you know what's true?

GUILFOYLE: You're mad because he told the truth.

BECKEL: No, I mean, because all it does is give Republicans a bunch of ammunition to keep shooting.

PERINO: That's why he will be ostracized.

BOLLING: He's only a jerk to Democrats.

BECKEL: I know. He's a big hero to you.

BOLLING: And he say he's not a jerk, because he's recollecting what happened. And unfortunately...

BECKEL: A member of the liberal academia.

GUILFOYLE: But he's still bad, because he's part of that cover-up.

BOLLING: Honestly, I'll say it one more time. Look, if ObamaCare was working, no one would give a crap who Jonathan Gruber is. The Republicans wouldn't. No one would mind that Gruber made $5.9 million over the course of 10 or 15 years. No one would care if it was working.

But it's not. So therefore...

BECKEL: Well, you say it's not. I say it's working.


BOLLING: The numbers don't bear that out. Not only that, Bob. As Dana pointed -- Dana pointed out in the A block, 37 percent, the lowest Gallup poll, which you quoted last week...


BOLLING: ... oppose -- approve of Obama care.

BECKEL: It was for ObamaCare or for Obama?

BOLLING: ObamaCare.

BECKEL: ObamaCare. Thirty-seven percent?


BECKEL: Is that the lowest?

BOLLING: Lowest ever.

BECKEL: I didn't know that.

PERINO: Greg, do you think that next year, that Gruber will get teacher -- professor of the year?

GUTFELD: You got to wonder, how much of this denial is spreading even into his personal life. Does he comes home and his wife is like, "Who are you? I have no idea who you are."

PERINO: You know what I would think the ultimate insult? If his dog didn't even greet him at the door.

GUTFELD: It's like no, dude. You're just bad news.

He's got to be depressed. Everybody he knows, everybody that said how great he is, is now going, "I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is."

PERINO: He's not as smart as he thinks he is.

GUTFELD: That's true. And it's going to come out.

BECKEL: Why do you take him at his word? Why do you take him at his word? He's a liberal college professor. You always say those people are a bunch of commies, so why would you take what he says as true? I don't believe him for a second.

PERINO: Really? You don't think behind closed doors...?

BECKEL: Not for a second. Not for a second. I don't think he met with Obama 20 times. I don't think he...


GUTFELD: I think they lived together in Vermont for five years.

BECKEL: Well, maybe they did, but that's a different situation. That's a domestic situation.

PERINO: He's dead to him.

OK, "One More Thing" is up next.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing." I'm going to go first. I'm going to tell you about my weekend, because I got to go to the Mohegan Sun. And I went to the Dierks Bentley concert, the Riser concert. If you haven't downloaded that album, you should.

But I found walking around -- that's Dierks Bentley. What I found walking around was the perfect gift for Eric Bolling for the holidays. It brings together your two worlds, and I wrapped them in the special newspaper, because I didn't have any wrapping paper. But look.

BOLLING: Red Solo cup.

PERINO: Yes, you see. And a pair of them.

BOLLING: Love the red Solo cups.

PERINO: But with crystal bases.

GUILFOYLE: That's so nice.

PERINO: What do you think?

BOLLING: I can drink beer...


BECKEL: The inside story is that Dana's husband forgot to bring them, so he had to go out and buy them.

GUILFOYLE: No, he had to go home and get them.

BECKEL: He had to go all the way home?


BECKEL: Are you kidding me? I've never done that to my old lady.

PERINO: All right, Greg is next.

GUTFELD: All right. Time for a banned phrase. I can't believe I have not banned this already. LOL. Enough. Nobody ever actually laughs out loud. It never happens when they're writing that. They're doing it unconsciously. It's like breathing.

PERINO: I disagree.

GUTFELD: It's not -- when you write "LOL" to me, you're not laughing out loud.

PERINO: I kind of go, "heh."

GUTFELD: Yes, it's like you're choking on something. No.

If you want to get rid of "LOL," here's what you do. Put it at the end of a really depressing e-mails, like if you have to write something depressing, like, "I have four months to live. LOL." That's going to get -- if everybody starts doing that, put "LOL" at the end of depressing sentences, it will kill it.

PERINO: OK. I'm going to try that. I don't write depressing notes.


PERINO: Eric Bolling, you're next.

BOLLING: OK. So first, can we hat tip American Commitment who unearthed that last video we just showed in the last block, Obama talking about Jonathan Gruber? That's housekeeping.

Tonight check this out on "Hannity." Hannity sent David Webb to MIT to track down Jonathan Gruber himself. Here's a little piece.


DAVID WEBB, FOX NEWS: Professor, do you really think the American voters are stupid? What about the ObamaCare, is that just a hoax on the American people?


BOLLING: And you got to tune in tonight at 10 p.m., to find out the answer, how Gruber answers those two questions. Good job.

GUTFELD: Probably stupid.

PERINO: I like how David Webb -- I like how David Webb doesn't even bother with the umbrella. Right? That's a real man.

GUILFOYLE: That is a real man.

BECKEL: And now I understand why I'm not invited on "Hannity" tonight.

GUILFOYLE: You're going to have to do an ambush.

BECKEL: I'm going to get -- I'm going to get a little bit more sadder news, and that that is in the last year, 2.5 million children in this, the richest country in the world, were homeless. And if their biological parents can't or won't provide them with housing, with food, with shelter, with clothing, then all of us who are at this table, who are making a good living and all of you out there that make a decent living, we ought to pay for it. That's my story.

PERINO: All right. We will not add "LOL" at the end of that, which is what...

GUTFELD: But see, that's the point.

GUILFOYLE: But that is the point. But also you are...

GUTFELD: There's a lot of homeless people, LOL.

GUILFOYLE: We've got to take care of everybody...

PERINO: This doesn't have anything to do with LOL.

GUILFOYLE: ... including children that are starving who don't have education, don't have meals on the table or winter coats.

BECKEL: Correct.

GUILFOYLE: Who gives back to children throughout the world? Bono. My favorite band. And we want to wish him well, Dana, because you and Peter know about this, it is very dangerous in Central Park. And Bono was injured on his bicycle. In fact he's going to probably have to have surgery. They were booked on stuff all week.

GUTFELD: Is that on a bike?


GUILFOYLE: And they had to cancel. I'm telling you...

PERINO: Did he get his by another bicycle?

GUILFOYLE: ... it's so dangerous in Central Park.

PERINO: So how did he get hurt?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I think we ought to do an investigation.

BECKEL: That's why you shouldn't bike. You shouldn't bike. It's a bad idea.

BECKEL: He was biking himself. Yes.

GUILFOYLE: He was biking. But I don't know...

BECKEL: You see all those euro-trash outfits they wear on those bikes?

BOLLING: I don't like those guys.

BECKEL: Those biker things?

PERINO: We will solve this mystery, and we will tell you about it tomorrow night.

Reminder: also for tomorrow night, the man who killed Usama bin Laden right here at this table.

GUTFELD: That's me.

PERINO: So set your DVRs for that. "Special Report" up next.

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The ObamaCare deceit: Why Jonathan Gruber matters

Published Thursday, November 13, 2014 / The Five
With Eric Bolling , Kimberly Guilfoyle , Bob Beckel , Dana Perino , Greg Gutfeld

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 13, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Mr. Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, you know, it's "The Five."

So, you all know about the big hoax of Jonathan Gruber video. You know he admitted what the Obama administration really believed. The Americans are too stupid to understand Obamacare, so let's deceive them about what's in it. The video surface, Gruber said he misspoke, he didn't really mean it. But then we found the second video and a third and number four came out today.


BOLLING: The big hoax caught on tape, Obama's architect, busted, which brings us to today, when Nancy Pelosi pretended, today, she never heard of him.


NANCY PELOSI, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I've been commenting on what was going on when we were writing the bill, who has -- withdrawn some of it, the statements that he made. So, let's put him aside.


BOLLING: OK. At the beginning of that sound bite she said she mentioned Jonathan Gruber. Fair enough. She didn't know him. But then how do you explain this? She quoted him on her Web site, maybe a different MIT professor named Jonathan Gruber, perhaps. Or maybe an aide posted that to her web. And also, how do you explain this, madam former speaker?


PELOSI: I don't know if you have seen Jonathan Gruber's MIT's analysis of the -- what the comparison is to the status quo versus what will happen in our bill. But those who seek insurance within the exchange and our bill takes down those costs.


BOLLING: So, Gruber thinks that Americans are stupid. Nancy Pelosi thinks we're really, really stupid. Now Bob, I have to start with you because, for God's sake the madam former speaker today said she -- nah, he wasn't part of the bill, I don't know who he is. Yet, he was on her Web site and she spoke about him in 2009.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, Nancy has tends to forget some things and my guess is that congress to write most of this, but can this -- can I have 32 second?

BOLLING: I don't know. Let's talk about.

BECKEL: Wait. Can I have 32 seconds?

BOLLING: They don't know yet, they absolutely talked about that.

BECKEL: Can I have 32 seconds, that's all I ask. That's all I ask.

BOLLING: About Nancy Pelosi and Democrats lying about Obamacare.

BECKEL: No. About, about, about Obamacare, I'm not lying to that.

BOLLING: We'll get to that in a second.

BECKEL: Oh, I see. I get cut off again. Is that right?


BOLLING: If we don't want the go through the Obamacare numbers right now.

BECKEL: Of course they don't and say too good.

BOLLING: Alright. K.G. -- it's a pattern.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I'm sorry to tell you, Eric.


GUILFOYLE: If he's not on her Christmas card list then she really doesn't know him, OK? Here's the deal, it's obvious that they made a mess of this, that they know him. That he was an architect. That he was involved in it, there's numerous accounts now. The facts are in. You do not have to be a math major of MIT to figure this out, because Americans aren't stupid.

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts of how this thing is -- I can't see what she went to the podium today and said I don't know him.

PERINO: Well, they do have a tendency to say things that are just proven false within 30 seconds just to do a Google search. I don't know whether they're just the staff doesn't serve them well or the principles like Nancy Pelosi don't listen to staff. They also don't seem to protect themselves very much and plus, they're trying to deal with -- they're not dealing with the heart of the matter, which is -- the fact that this has been -- it wasn't an offhand remark by Gruber, it is a state of mind. And now we're dealing with the aftermath of it. It's curious why the Democrats don't try to replace some of the leadership, because that is not -- but today's press conference and what Nancy Pelosi did, that's actually -- this is a common occurrence now. You expect this in every press conference but, they all won -- every leadership member won re-election today by their members.

BOLLING: I can't believe she says this.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: No, you have to understand that what - - who you, who you are talking to now are the people that already pulled off the heist.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: They -- it's like interviewing D. B. Cooper who's on his island wherever he is. They already got the bill across. They don't care. And if you are talking -- it was the media doesn't care because they're the accomplices. They're the guys that drove the car that was able to get to spirit Obamacare to safety. So now, that they -- now that we've caught them and we knew that they were lying, to them it's hilarious to them and even more so, when they see that we are like, upset about it. They point to that as Republican vitriol as now it's like stupid that she would be upset that you were caught.

PERINO: You see The Washington Post headline is that health care law opponents riled anew.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes. It looks.

PERINO: By stupidity video.

GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly.

BOLLING: Let me follow up on that because, it's amazing that you are 100 percent right. We are hearing about it. Bob, we'll get to you in a second. We're hearing about it, but you're only hearing about it if you're watching Fox. Fox has been telling you about the video, but what about the mainstream media? Let's take a look at the facts. Evening news broadcasts. Nightly news, NBC zero, ABC zero, CBS zero. How about the morning shows? Look at that, CBS zero -- I'm sorry, CBS one today, NBC and ABC is zero each. So, of all the news cast, of all the mainstream media news cast, you only get it one. Bob, you want to comment on this?

BECKEL: Can I just comment on --

BOLLING: No, no. Stay on the mainstream media.

BECKEL: No, no, no. Dana said it was a failure. She said it was a failure. Can I just make a point?

BOLLING: Failure to show --

BECKEL: You know this is the problem here, because I don't -- I get a chance to say the things that are good about this because, you always overwhelm it with this guy. It's a good story, it's a nice story, it's a dead story.

BOLLING: So let's talk about it. How can.

BECKEL: Why? I did to me, it's a waste of time.

BOLLING: How can we make him if you won't show, what some video.

BECKEL: It's a waste of time. What is not a waste of time is when you people said that sick people would sign up, 80 percent, 85 percent young people are healthy signed up.

BOLLING: Is it right that.

BECKEL: I don't want to hear that. Sorry.

BECKEL: CBS won't even show you number one, Gruber lied.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Number two, Gruber called Americans stupid in the veltro. (ph)

PERINO: Well, the reason why is -- right.

BOLLING: And number three, Pelosi.

BECKEL: Can I ask some producers, can we have a one day just to talk about what Obamacare has done right?

BOLLING: We will, Bob.

PERINO: Why don't you just make your own show?

BOLLING: Let's go.

PERIONO: That would.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, the bottom line is this is a question.

BECKEL: What are you saying?

PERINO: Do your own show.

GUILFOYLE: That's been post about the mainstream media and how they have handled this and their failure to report on a very valid important story. Because, they were complicit like you said, they are the aiders and the betters. They're the ones that backed up the truck to bank so the cash could be looted from the vault. Now, they've made away with it, so do you think they wanna uncover the facts that show that they were complicit in it? No. They gonna cover it up, they gonna black it out because that's the way they survive.

BECKEL: Government suggested they all got together and besides they want to cover Gruber, is that what happened?

GUTFELD: No, no, no. They got together and they all agreed with what Gruber had been saying.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Which that they had to lie about this bill to get it through. The godfather of leftism, Bob, is not Karl Marx, it's P.T. Barnum. That every progressive voter in their minds is a sucker, all they have to do is lie and get it through and that's exactly what happened. The -- you know what? It was not the Republicans or anybody or any conservative or libertarian with the suckers, they didn't vote for this crap.


GUTFELD: Barnum made a mint off of side shows. He made a men and bearded ladies and two-headed goats, but this is a three-headed snake, Obamacare. It's Pelosi, its Gruber and its Obama.

BECKEL: Its' all according to the American Insurance Institute, 10 million new people insured that because of Obamacare.

GUTFELD: Bob, I -- Bob, I would.

BECKEL: 10 million.

GUTFELD: Bob, I wish I could go -- I could give you the amount of e-mails that I get from people who've lost their health care.


GUTFELD: Who have, who have, who have seen their, their rates skyrocket. They write constantly, and you ignore that.

BECKEL: Well, no. I don't ignore that. Put down and this time I accuse of about walnut gang (ph) came in here today prepared.

BOLLING: We get on a second thought.

BECKEL: OK, fine.

BOLLING: But the segment was about how the media is treating this. How long for them, before they start. BECKEL: Why starts? I mean.

BOLLING: Dana, how long before ABC, NBC and CBS decide that this becomes a story?

PERINO: I don't think that they probably will or if they do it will be dismissed and derisive and -- you'll have to watch Fox to find out where it goes. I mean, he'll have his tenured position at MIT, but I do think that the weight of this bill, whether or not it's a great as Bob says and we are all just too stupid to understand, just how great it is, maybe I am that stupid, to not understand how great the bill is, that the media will not cover it. In that way, and us complaining that they're not is not going to solve the problem. I do think there are some positive things going forward, Rubio and Ryan, Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan apparently working on an additional piece of legislation that would deal with some of the important things, especially the employer mandate in particular. If you look at the front page of Wall Street Journal today, there's a story by Nick Timiraos, hope that I say that correctly, it's called, Many Face New Normal: Part- Time Pay, Full-Time Bills. And I think what doesn't show up in any of statistics what people are trying to show how great the bill is, it's the weight of this bill on the economy for part-time workers who have seen their hours cut from 35 to 20.


PERINO: Many of them single mothers who don't have the time or ability to work two jobs in order to make ends meet. And this is the, this is the drag on the economy that nobody is willing to face up to the Democratic Party but, voters decided -- last week that they wanted to do something about it so now, the Republicans have to figure out a way what can we possibly do to work with the administration that gets something signed by the president that would fix this problem.

BECKEL: So this is not --

BOLLING: Get it -- now you can --

BECKEL: Thank you, this is not, -- by no means a great bill. There's a lot of things could be done to fix it, and I hope that they amend it to fix it, and that it makes sense. I've said that from the beginning now, this is a lot of things like, cross state lines and that sort of thing. But, you know the thing is, it was said that the -- you couldn't keep your doctor or your plan. Well, a lot of people lost their plans. That's right, 85 percent has4 lost their plan policies now, have new policies and they're better policies and 50 percent I talked to their doctors.

GUTFELD: That's not you.

BECKEL: That's Kaiser Permanente.


GUTFELD: There are other statistics that shows that their policies are not as good, that are worse, and that they paying for.

BOLLING: And by the way, Bob. This all started.

GUTFELD: You know what? You would be great if they didn't have to make it.

BECKEL: Do I need to bring God in here for back? (ph)

GUTFELD: No, you are God, Bob.

BOLLING: Can we just point out that Bob, this all started when you said -- going down. Premiums are --

BECEKL: I was going to explain that to you. I was going to explain to you.

BOLLING: Wait a second, what is in all about premiums?

BECKLE: Of course not.

BOLLING: Let's see how the White House was spinning this whole ball of mess hoax. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There was a steadfast commitment by this administration to -- to make sure the people had good insight into the benefits of the law. I think it's actually Republicans who haven't been particularly transparent or even honest about the true impact of those.


BOLLING: Gruber, Dana. As Gruber says, we lied, they're stupid, but we get it through, but it's Republicans who weren't true.

PERINO: People forget remember, this bill is actually cobbled together the night before Christmas of 2009. What happened in January of 2010, Republican -- the Democrats lost their supermajority in the Senate. Therefore, they did couldn't -- they couldn't send another bill through, so they had to use the cobbled together bill. Even though they planned to go through and fix it all and apparently all these things are going to be addressed and you had the famous quote, we have to pass it to find out what's in it, and they did. And they're paying a price for, really sloppy work.

BOLLING: Alright, quick thoughts around, Greg? Yeah? No?

GUTFELD: Well, I don't know. Bob, Bob, I just want to ask you. Imagine if this is how you bought your groceries. If you had to go to buy your groceries every day, you needed a 12-digit card and then when you came home, there was your grocery benefits bill that said, they're no longer covering milk or cookies and you're gonna have to go back and call to find out how to pay for them. And then you just -- you also found out that you know, milk is gone up to $500, because there are no price tags in the supermarket. This is -- this is what you see as an effective way of delivering health care. Is this way? It's a horrible, a horrible monstrosity that makes lives hell. Why don't you let them make the choices, let them have the market?

BECKEL: My oldest friend on Capitol Hill as the next box (ph) is now the ambassador to China who had this bill for three years. He works very hard, day and night. It was not cobbled together on the last day of December. It had a fundamental -- the fundamentals of the bill were there. They threw some things in there they shouldn't have, and I've said, it could be fixed. These things can be done. But, you know in states that have had the exchanges, insurance rates are up last year, 4.5 percent, those that didn't, 10 percent to 20 percent.

BOLLING: Up -- on all of them. K.G.?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I Look --

BECKEL: Or I suggest. In fact that.

BOLLING: It did work, Bob.

BECKEL: Yeah. OK, fine.

BOLLING: You said, up on all of them.

GUILFOYLE: I hope he does have to testify in front of congressional hearings because, the truth really does needs to come out so that the American people can make very wise choices like they did in the last election about who they want in charge, who they want I n charge of their family, of their money that's coming in to their homes, about jobs and the future. This is all connected.

BOLLING: Alright. We're gonna leave it right there.

Next, will the media apologize for insulting Americans who voiced their concerns, years ago, the lawmakers about Obamacare? And later, what the man who killed bin Laden revealed the last night, about the last seconds of the Al-Qaeda leader's wife. But before we go, Shep has some breaking news from the Fox News desk, Shep?

SHEPARD SMITH, SHEPARD SMITH REPORTING SHOW HOST: Eric, thanks. That survivalist accused of shooting and killing a Pennsylvania state trooper now faces new charges, two counts of terrorism. His name is Eric Frein with a hearing this afternoon, he appeared on video. Investigators say Eric Frein opened fire on the police barracks in September, killed the trooper on the left ear and wounded the other man. Frein was on the run for weeks on end before U.S. Marshals captured him last month. Cops say he's a self trained survivalist who talked about wanting to commit mass murder, more of The Five after this.


GUTFELD: Gruber makes the Obamacare town hall protesters from 2009 seem like authentic fortune tellers, but let's remember, Gruber didn't call them stupid. He called the people who fell for the bill, stupid, which made the town hallers geniuses. Sadly, back then, they were called far worse, I believe it rhymed with racist, and then unruly mob out for blood. Well it turns out that mob knew the White House was lying, that Obamacare was a scam and they were just trying to save us from ourselves. Like this fellow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have spent two weeks on my own trying to read that bill, and trying to understand it. It's like a Russian novel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you pledged to all of us here tonight, that if a new government single payer system is instituted, that you will opt out of your Cadillac insurance and into the same one that we will be forced to take.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The majority is against this plan! The majority is against this plan!


GUTFELD: Which is why the media ate these folks alive, brutally smearing them just to get this collective crap-fest into law.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This widespread anger you're talking about is, is, is really something. The town meetings seem to have taken on a life of their own and causing problems for both sides.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't believe in the president's health care plan, I think what you need to do is explain to the American people why we feel this way. But standing here and pointing fingers, and standing here and shouting, and pushing and shoving, I mean, you know what? I hate to go there, but the reality is, Skip Gates was arrested for what these people they were doing here. This is absolutely ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, to the White House and the fever pitch of a health care debate some town halls are becoming town brawls.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUTFELD: So what's that all about? Let's call it what it is. Bigotry, the media mocked the people because, they were old. And old means, conservative, and old means, wise, and old means smart. If they were younger, the media would have listened, just like they did with occupy Wall Street, a feted camp that lacked wrinkles that made up for it in species. So now, the truth is out, and the town hallers were right, and what do you hear? Silence. Not of lambs but of liars who deserves nothing less that to be tarred and feathered by every person who lost their health care or doctor, by every person who saw the rates rise and every person who ended up with inferior health care for their special needs child. What's needed is a new grade panthers. Older, smarter folks who will kick the hell out of these corrupt lying bastards, because Obamacare is what happen when a government deceives and when the cowardly media forfeits their role in exposing it, lost my voice there, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Well, because you had a lot of emotion behind it, because we know the truth. We knew it. People tried to say it, and they were shouted down like they were irrational savages, when instead, they were the ones that were informed. They were the ones that knew what was in the bill and the impact that it will have. Can anyone offer an apology please to the American people? We're waiting.

GUTFELD: Bob, are you ready? They did ring the bell. They were the first to ring the bell and they were right.

BECKEL: They were -- they were legitimately out there with expression of legitimate grievances with a bill they assumed is not gonna be healthy for them. I would only point it out in defense of it. That was 2009, 2010, '11, '12 and '13 nobody showed up at town hall meetings. Once the bill got those in effect, you know why? Because, not all people had increases there -- in their premiums, a lot of people are getting a lot more help and 10 million people who had no insurance --

GUTFELD: I don't believe that.

BOLLING: I don't either.


BECKEL: Don't believe the insurance association of America.


BOLLING: You just run through states that reader (ph) up a little or up a lot depending on their -- whether they had a health care exchange or not.


BECKEL: You know, I can tell you the sun doesn't come up and -- Obama anything to do with it, you would say no.

BOLLING: Insurance right now that wasn't getting insurance and paying less for it? The people were getting it for free and they're very happy with your 100 percent right about them. But you know what the people who have to pay for it, or paying hard premiums, my niece literally e-mailed or texted me in the break saying, she has six kids.


BOLLING: I don't have health care because of Obamacare. My daughter, sophomore in high school, doesn't have health care because of Obamacare. Bob, you're completely off base, you can't just -- you know laterally agree with it, because you supposed to have Democrat.

BECKEL: Your niece and 150 people who were poor, you do it, you now have insurance and that's fine with me.

GUTFELD: Yey. See, so we sacrificed -- it's all for the greater good.

BOLLING: And she works.

GUTFELD: It's all for the greater good, right? If a few people suffer -- for so other people get free stuff, that's Bob.

BECKEL: They not gonna suffer this, why should that they have to address on that.


BECKEL: It does to be fixed up. I agree with it. I agree with that but I think it's working very well.

GUTFELD: Dana, even Bill Maher says that ageism is now the last acceptable form of bigotry and I do think when you remember back then, most of the mockery was about how these people were just old.

PERINO: And they're crazy.


PERINO: Way back in the day when women use to go take their husbands go to the doctors and may say, he's snoring like crazy.


PERINO: And then say, gosh, I think that the lady -- they give the woman valium.


PERINO: Because -- just to shut her up.


PERINO: I mean, that's what Gruber is trying to do, they trying -- want to give America valium so that they shut up.


PERINO: And just let them do what they thought was best for us. But still, in the Gallup polls, 52 percent of the American people do not like this bill, and they have good reason to, but the other thing is the Medicaid piece of this, it gives the worst possible care. And there is a way to have a competitive market, if you had catastrophic plans for everybody.


PERINO: Required -- you have catastrophic plans plus, pay out of pocket for their regular routine visits. You would actually be able to see health care costs come down, if we had the guts to do that. The other thing is they weren't honest -- Gruber says, they have to lie to the American people because they won't understand it. Well, actually one -- just try it on for size. Treat them like adults.



BECKEL: Can't afford to pay out of pocket?

PERINO: That, that they Medicaid. Medicaid is a subpar way to deal with it but, we could improve that. Instead, we have to put all of our money into subsidies.

BOLLING: No one goes without health care in this country, Bob. The country to where what you look -- and by the way, your 10 million number?

BOLLING: Out of five, out five.

PERINO: It's that 30 million who still don't have insurance.

BOLLING: Five two thirds, it's about 3.8 million.

BECKEL: That's well -- you go ahead and argue with the guys who did this to the insurance.


GUTFELD: I know a lot about now, you believe everything insurance companies say, Bob.

BECKEL: No. I believe -- listen. This is just statistics. What can I tell you?

GUTFELD: Yeah, last word to you, Kimberly. Don't you think in a way, that somehow the Republican Party are emboldened by Gruber that, remember, Bob you used to say, that no one was gonna talk about Obamacare anymore. Now, is back here and its' I -- I would never say repeal the damn thing, because it's a lost cause but boy.

GUILFOYLE: But guess what? You know.

GUTFELD: This is -- the ugly beast is reared its ugly head.

GUILFOYLE: And guess what? Thanks to Gruber it's not trending on the home page. That's the deal.

BECKEL: And according to the site with Gruber, two of us still not talking about are they?

GUTFELD: Are they?



GUTFELD: How so? No, no, only the media. Rest of America hates this thing.

BECKEL: You think they're talking about Gruber?

GUTFELD: I think so.


GUTFELD: When previously obscure MIT economist ends up -- trending on twitter, that's a problem for you.

BOLLING: Three days in a row.



PERINO: Why do you think he's on the YouTube.?


GUILFOYLE: Viral video.

PERINO: But he is on the speaking circuit and having them paid $400,000 by HHS is because he was the architect of Obamacare.


PERINO: There's no other reason.

GUTFELD: Why did they become architect?

BECKEL: I thought his brother -- his brother was architect.

GUTFELD: OK. Coming up, Obama's secret amnesty plan for illegal is revealed. Obama -- Fox News obtained it and Dana's got it for you next.


PERINO: President Obama may soon take executive action to overhaul our immigration system, even though he himself told us just last year, it would be wrong to bypass congress.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If in fact, I could solve these problems without passing laws in congress, then I would do so. But, we're also a nation of laws, that's part of our tradition. And so, the easy way out is to try to yell and pretend like I can do something by violating our laws and what I'm proposing is the harder path which is, to use our Democratic processes.


PERINO: That said he could be unveiling his amnesty plan as soon as next week according to Fox News producer Lucas Tomlinson who exclusively obtained the president's ten-point plan. The most controversial portion involves suspending -- I'm sorry, suspending deportations for illegal immigrants, which with mean more than 4.5 million would get to stay. House Speaker Boehner is vowing congress will do everything it can to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN BOEHNER, HOUSE SPEAKER: The president's threatening to take unilateral action on immigration. Even though, in the past he's made clear he didn't believe he had the constitutional responsibility or authority to do that. And I just say this, we're gonna fight the president, tooth and nail if he continues down this path.


PERINO: OK, so here we go. One week after the election, Kimberly.


PERINO: President Obama said, he didn't have the legal authority but, maybe that has changed -- apparently, they're gonna focused on the deportation issue in particular, and not deal with some of the other more comprehensive things like the high-tech visa.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, perhaps. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, Dana. Maybe he's referring to an entire different Constitution, but not one, it seems, the United States of America.

But nevertheless, he's emboldened, despite the results of the midterm elections, to go through with this ten-year part plan. And by the way, what it's going to do legally, if he gets away with this. is put illegal aliens in a legal limbo. It's really not solving the problem. What he's doing is pushing it off. He's going to suspend deportations through deferred action and prosecutorial discretion. And by that it means, OK, I'm a prosecutor. I'm supposed to -- I swear an oath to uphold the law. Because the president decided to wave its pen across the page, I've got to look the other way and not enforce the law.

How is this appropriate or constitutional or legal? And it should be challenged.

PERINO: It does seem also, Eric, like a misreading of what the voters said last week. I mean, according to most of the polls I have seen people are against this. Why not give it -- the new Congress a deadline of, say, March 1 to get it done or else?

BOLLING: Because that would give the opportunity to the Republicans to come up with a plan that's acceptable to the American people. He asked to defer to his base. He's trying to make sure that he's -- you know, hat tips the Hispanic community and say, "I got your back on that. And just don't worry."

GUILFOYLE: Right. That's what that is.

BOLLING: In that sound bite, the word that jumped out for me was he said, "We're a nation of laws and we uphold the tradition." No, we don't uphold the tradition. We uphold the laws. We uphold the constitutionality of the laws. Basically what he's saying, he's taking the Constitution, he's holding a match to it saying, "Look, I'm going to do this. If you don't do this, if you don't come back with a law that I like, forget it. It's up in smoke. I'm going to do this my way."

You're right, Dana. The voters spoke last week, but President Obama's not hearing it.

PERINO: Let's listen to Congressman Gutierrez from immigration. He thinks that not having done immigration will cost the Democrats seats in the election.


REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: The president decided to make a political calculation.

June 30 of this year the president got a call from Boehner. Boehner said, "We're not moving on immigration reform." The president said, well, then, I'm going to act.

And then comes the end of the summer. He says, "Well, I'm going to wait until after the election." So what did we get? We lost the Senate anyway and infuriated, angered, disillusioned lots of voters.


PERINO: Remember, Bob, back in August when we said that political calculation was strange for the Obama administration to float that if they weren't really going to do it? Do you think it hurt them?

BECKEL: Well, you know, I suppose it might have, if they had done it, it might have turned out a few more voters, but I don't think it's enough to carry some of these people in the Senate states that lost, and I'm not sure if it wasn't counterbalanced by people who have been so infuriated they would have come out.

Obama's going to get away with some of this. He's not going to get away with all of it. He's already lost a couple of key cases in the appellate.


BECKEL: And my guess is that he'll lose several of these. My suggestion to him is very simple. He has a right under the Constitution to grant amnesty to anybody. And he ought to grant amnesty to anybody. And he ought to grant amnesty to 11, 48 million Hispanics or anybody else who's here illegally and who doesn't have a criminal record.

PERINO: So double the number. But then what about the future, Greg, about if you -- doesn't that just say come to America?


PERINO: We have an open border.

GUTFELD: Yes. An allowance of behavior always encourages more behavior. We saw that a few months ago with the mad dash of young people from the south into our country. It was like a Bieber presale, except the tickets were free.

And by the way, this is a -- they call it a ten-part plan. And you only need one part. It's follow the law. It's an ancient trick. The more parts you add, the less they want you to read. Does that sound familiar?



GUTFELD: Comprehensiveness is a ruse, because it makes something so huge that it's absurd to even attempt. Therefore, when you say no, you come off as the bad guy.

However, I believe, as I've said, I'm for immigration. I believe we should welcome new people. The more brains we get, the more innovation we have in this country. But you can't excuse carelessness. Like declaring amnesty to 4 million or 8 million people. You have to follow the rules of "The Bachelorette." You know, you don't date all of them at once. Well, maybe you do.

PERINO: Or you do.

GUTFELD: But you don't say yes to all of them. You say -- you say yes to only the winners, and they all come through the front door.

GUILFOYLE: There's only a certain number of roses.

PERINO: That's because if the president goes forward with this and it does poison the well, they're not going to get what the business community really says is desperately needed, which is the high-tech workers. He won't get it done.

BOLLING: Bob, you suggest we give blanket amnesty to all the people that are here?

BECKEL: That would be...


BOLLING: Let me ask you something. Hold on. What would happen the day after that, they float this idea? The 11 or 12 million would be 24 million or 34 million. They'd all be flowing in to get amnesty in America. Are you out of your mind? That was like...

GUILFOYLE: It's just very irresponsible.

BECKEL: Well, you say continually that I'm out of my mind. So that's not a new revelation. The...

PERINO: I've got to run in a second, guys.


GUTFELD: Where are you going?

PERINO: One quick last second.

GUTFELD: We have another half hour of show, Dana.

PERINO: I know, because I want Bob and...

GUTFELD: It goes from 5 to 6! You can't just leave!

PERINO: I'm not leaving. I want Bob to have a chance in this segment.

BECKEL: I just -- all I was going to say was that I think that most of what he's going to try to do is going to be knocked down in the courts. He will get away with some of it. I hope he does. And I think the idea of somehow sending these people back home, that many very conservative Republicans want to do is crazier than I am.

GUTFELD: It's terrible. It's mean; it's cruel.

BECKEL: It is cruel.

PERINO: That's also not what most -- the majority of Republicans want.

GUILFOYLE: That is not. Secure the borders.

PERINO: Coming up next on "The Five," take a look.


ROBERT O'NEILL, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Part of it was, OK, this is the one that's going to blow up. Let's get it over with. And so I squeezed him and the two of us went up the stairs in the room. We haven't seen the big guy yet. So he's left. And if he's here, he's in there.


PERINO: The gripping details of bin Laden's final moments from the hero who killed him. We're back in a moment.


GUILFOYLE: Well, last night was the dramatic conclusion of "The Man who Killed Usama bin Laden." For the very first time, we heard exactly what happened after our Navy SEALs broke into the room of the world's most wanted terrorism. Here's Robert O'Neill.


O'NEILL: Standing two feet in front of me, with his hands on his wife's shoulders, behind her, was the face that I'd seen thousands of times. It's UBL. Very quickly, when I recognized him and then just pop, pop, pop.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Where did you shoot Usama bin Laden?

O'NEILL: In the face three times.

DOOCY: Did he stagger at all?

O'NEILL: He just fell by the left side of the bed. I was standing above him when he took his last breath, and I heard it audibly.

DOOCY: Did Usama bin Laden say anything?



GUILFOYLE: O'Neill and comrades could have lost their lives that night. Even they didn't think they would return alive. So why were they willing to risk it all?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to thank you on behalf of my son and Carol's daughter and some of the other family members.

O'NEILL: That's the reason that we went, accepting death the way we did. Because it wasn't for ourselves to get the big mission and have bragging rights. The reason that we left on the mission, knowing we're probably going to die, more than likely not come home, was for the single mom that went to work on Tuesday morning; and later that morning she made the conscious decision to jump to her death, because it's better than burning alive.


GUILFOYLE: Powerful moment. And an incredible documentary. Eric, your thoughts?

BOLLING: Very moving. That part of it, the 9/11 stuff. You know, a lot of us have attachment to that event. And...

GUILFOYLE: Like you do.

BOLLING: Like I do. And I remember the anger I had for bin Laden and al Qaeda at the time. And to know that that man is off the face of the earth and died in the way he did, I'm thrilled. I'm happy. I'm a Christian, but I don't care, because he was going to kill a lot more people. And thank God for people like Robert O'Neill and the Navy SEAL Team 6 and the rest of the guys that were involved in that.

GUILFOYLE: And everybody in our military who puts it on the line every day -- Dana.

PERINO: Well, the thing I loved about the documentary, too, and seeing the last part again is that I thought the quality of it was great and it's just -- it was a different way to sit and be quiet and think about 9/11 that I hadn't done in a long time.

And I thought that the pacing of the documentary was great. I think -- I'm glad I saw it all in one sitting. I think it would have been hard to wait overnight to see the second part. But the illustrations, the graphics, the camera angles, the whole tone and pacing of it I thought was very good.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Very well done. Kudos to John Finley, too, who put together a very nice documentary -- Greg.

GUTFELD: Did you know that Pete Doocy is related to Steve Doocy?

PERINO: Oh, really?

GUTFELD: I had no idea. I thought it was just a coincidence, because they don't look at all alike.

You know, I think it's good to know how bin Laden croaked. I know that there are a lot of -- there's a few SEALs that don't think it's good to divulge this kind of stuff but, you know, a lot of people didn't know how Hitler died. You don't know if he died in pain. It's great to know and to give people comfort and closure, especially the victims, that bin Laden suffered like a coward.

And I'm not beneath enjoying the suffering of others. I enjoy knowing that he got shot in the face. I enjoy showing that he hid behind his wife. I enjoy knowing that his last moments he was probably pooping himself. That makes me happy.

PERINO: Agreed.

GUILFOYLE: We actually know that about you.



BECKEL: Well, you know,, compared to Saddam Hussein, who went, frankly -- I mean, I thought Hussein, he was either drugged up or something, but he looked, you know, fairly calm. Compared to...

GUTFELD: I think he was shocked.

BECKEL: Yes, I think he was shocked is exactly right. But here's -- here's this little theory I wanted to throw out here.

I don't believe Usama bin Laden was buried at sea. I think the body is still here, and I think they're looking into it to figure out what evil is. So they've been doing that project. The military's been doing that project for a long time. And if there's one point to find out his brains...

BOLLING: Area 51.

GUTFELD: Area 51, where they had the moon landing.

BECKEL: No, no, no. They really do have these bodies of people...

GUILFOYLE: OK. All right, Bob. This is getting, you know, even weird for you.

GUTFELD: ... trails.

BOLLING: You know that thing that landed on the comet? That's all fake, too.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Enough about that! All right.

BECKEL: Who would want to land on that thing? Have you seen it?

GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: The KISS Army landed on the comet.


OK. We want to thank everyone for tuning in to see "The Man Who Killed Usama bin Laden." It was the most watched documentary in the history of the FOX News Channel and the No. 1 show in cable news last night. We are so glad that you enjoyed it.

Next on "The Five," a school district in Bob's home state is canceling Christmas this year.


GUILFOYLE: You all know how much he loves that holiday. So how does he feel about that? He's going to tell us next. Wake up, Bob.


BECKEL: Christian -- Christmas, excuse me -- that's my holiday; that's my favorite ever holiday -- will no longer be on the calendar for students in a school district in my home state of Maryland, and it's my county. Montgomery County.

That's because Muslim leaders backed by CAIR called for equal recognition for Muslim holidays. Isn't that nice? So the Montgomery County School Board just voted to remove references to all religious holidays to make the Muslims happy, I guess.

I don't know exactly what to say about this. If you want recognition about your holiday, put it in the school bulletin. They're still going to be closed over Christmas and the Jewish holidays, so I don't -- this is just going way, way, way too far. I mean, it just -- it drives me crazy.

Eric, does it -- before I say something that I will regret, will you go ahead and take this?

BOLLING: Go ahead.

BECKEL: No, no, no, no. I had enough of that yesterday.

BOLLING: Put your hand on the bleep button.

Look, you know, CAIR, you ruin all the fun for everybody, don't you?

PERINO: They said -- they said -- CAIR says, "We were blind-sided. We are disappointed. It isn't what we asked for. We don't believe that other faith groups should be punished for our request," which I think they said with a straight face.

BECKEL: They did say it with a straight face. But they can't actually have holiday because of -- religious holidays because of separation of church and state. But schools do publish it. Does anybody see a calendar here that doesn't have the Christmas holiday on it?

BOLLING: No, but they have to rename it. They can't call it Christmas.

BECKEL: I know.

BOLLING: Winter break.

GUILFOYLE: Christmas, they are federal and state holidays, as well. So you know, I mean, CAIR has just basically spoiled the soup (ph) for everybody. And the only people happy are probably the atheists.

BECKEL: Is Christmas a federal holiday?

GUILFOYLE: All of these holidays are on the books, Bob.

BECKEL: I didn't know. OK. There. Then why should we...

GUILFOYLE: Well, Maryland shouldn't have done it. I mean, this is the problem with what's happening around here. And if, by the way, they had to give a day or something, but now you've canceled, you've ruined it for everybody. It's ridiculous.

GUTFELD: They've ruined Christmas. They've ruined -- now look. Forced equality is also going to be the enemy of the good, because the world is imperfect.


GUTFELD: This is what happens. But the schools are going to be closed anyway on winter and spring break. So the families -- and the families can instruct their children about Christmas. You don't need to rely on the public schools.

CAIR, I agree, was unhappy about -- but you know what? I'm not worried about my religion. There are 8 million members of the Swinging Unicorn and you don't see me clamoring for a holiday.

GUILFOYLE: Swinging Unicorn?

BECKEL: But you know, on a serious note -- on a little bit of a serious note, we were formed into -- the formation of this country was on a Christian-Judeo set of beliefs. Correct?

BOLLING: What do you mean?

GUILFOYLE: Are you just getting that now? That's what I was saying.

BOLLING: The swinging part.

BECKEL: What? The swinging part of what?

BOLLING: That's not the unicorn society (ph).

BECKEL: I think Greg should get his holiday off. I mean, it's -- how many people -- think about the people that joined that thing.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's an amazing.

BECKEL: I was a minister of Universal Free Life Church back in the '70s.

GUTFELD: Henry Kissinger is the Swinging Unicorn.

BECKEL: Oh, he is? OK.

GUILFOYLE: Uh, do you know that?

BECKEL: You don't want me to say anything dangerous, right? "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Is your segment over?


BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing" -- and Greg.

GUTFELD: I haven't banned a phase in a while. I'm banning this one, "Have a good one." What is this "one" you want me to have a good of? What if that one happens to be something bad and having a good one could be painful? I was leaving the men's room and -- actually, I was going into the men's room, and a guy was walking out on the 18th floor, and he said, "Have a good one."

PERINO: No, he didn't.

GUTFELD: Yes, he did. And I said, "Sir, mind your own damn business." Phil.

BECKEL: Did you have a good one?

GUTFELD: There you go. That's bad.

BECKEL: What did you do in the men's room?

PERINO: OK. There's another book out this week that I want to talk about. It is called "Warrior Diplomat" by Michael G. Waltz. He is a former Green Beret, and he worked in the National Security Council. This is a story about how he was on the front lines in Afghanistan, and then he worked on the National Security Council. Actually, I remember. We worked together. He was in the vice president's office. We sat together. I did a Q and A with him on the web. It's a nice little primer before you read the book.

GUILFOYLE: Very nice. He's a great guy and a good father.

BOLLING: Keep it up, K.G.

GUTFELD: How do you know that?

BOLLING: It's your ball.

GUILFOYLE: Because I know him and I met him and we communicate.

PERINO: And all proceeds of that book go to charity, by the way.

GUILFOYLE: Fantastic. You should buy it.

So I have a cute little thing. Jennifer Lawrence, unbelievably talented, right? Did you know that she's deathly afraid of singing? Well, you're about to see it. Because she was on "The Late Show," and take a listen to this.


JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: Oh, my God. You're trying to get me to sing?


LAWRENCE (singing): Have a holly jolly Christmas.

LETTERMAN (singing): And a holly jolly Christmas.

LAWRENCE (singing): It's the best time of the year.

LETTERMAN (singing): Here comes Santa down the thing. And a holly jolly Christmas.

LAWRENCE (singing): Have a glass of beer.


GUILFOYLE: OK. That was awful.

BOLLING: Awesome. Awesome!


PERINO: Who chose (ph) that?

BOLLING: That was great.

GUILFOYLE: That was awful. However, so she's making, you know, fun of the fact that she's deathly afraid of singing, because she's singing in the newest "Hunger Games" installment, "Mockingjay, Part 1."

BOLLING: That wasn't awful. All right, Bob, you're up. You're up.

BECKEL: I want you -- I want you to listen to what President Obama said in China yesterday. Just listen to this short little brief statement.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every day, some of the barriers of mistrust are broken down, mutual understanding is promoted, and that lays the seed -- the seeds for cooperation not just today but for future generations.


BECKEL: You know, Mr. President, if I could, with all due respect, give you some advice, you and all of your precedent -- your previous presidents, going back to Harry Truman, have all gone over there, worn those silly outfits, eaten their food and come out saying, "Gee, we've got to have a better relationship."

Do you understand something? These are the biggest threat to the United States in the history of this country. The Chinese will try to bury us. They don't like us. They're building a very big military. They're trying to get hegemony over the Pacific Rim. You're going to regret this, and every president before you is going to regret it, to realize these guys are out to see us annihilated from the face of the earth.

BOLLING: Wow. That's lovely. On that note...

GUILFOYLE: Uplifting.

GUTFELD: I like hegemony. That's a great word.

BOLLING: I have an uplifting story, "One More Thing." Check out this tweet that was delivered this morning by Elisabeth Hasselbeck. She says, "Full of gratitude to be back tomorrow, 6 a.m. Eastern, on @foxandfriends! Mornings are #betterwithfriends like all of you!"


BOLLING: Just want to let everyone know. She's back tomorrow morning.

GUTFELD: She was away?

BOLLING: She was away...

GUTFELD: I don't get up before 11.

BOLLING: OK, well, she was -- K.G. filled in for her a few times.

GUILFOYLE: Helping out my friend.

BOLLING: And she's going to explain her absence. Here's a hint. Everything is A-OK. She's doing great and make sure you...

BECKEL: How's the baby doing?

BOLLING: It wasn't a baby.

BECKEL: Oh, it wasn't? I'm sorry. I thought it was.

BOLLING: Not a baby. It had nothing do with babies. I'll be on that show, as well.

BECKEL: She's a really nice person, by the way. She's great.

BOLLING: She's amazing. She's -- our morning girl is back.

BECKEL: I watch her every time before I go to bed.

BOLLING: All right. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next. You've got about ten seconds to wave good-bye.

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New tape of ObamaCare architect calling American people 'stupid'

November 12, 2014 / Fox News

ObamaCare architect Jonathan Gruber apparently doesn't think much of the intelligence of the American people.

A new tape has surfaced showing Gruber, once again, claiming the health care law's authors took advantage of the "stupid" American public.

The tape, played on Fox News' "The Kelly File," showed Gruber speaking at an October 2013 event at Washington University in St. Louis.

Referring to the so-called "Cadillac tax" on high-end health plans, he said: "They proposed it and that passed, because the American people are too stupid to understand the difference."

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Obama takes another swipe at Fox News

October 03, 2014 / Fox News

President Obama is taking heat for mocking Fox News over its coverage of his health care overhaul.

The president took the shot Thursday during a speech at Northwestern University in Illinois, as he defended his six-year record in office on the economy, on health care and on the budget.

He claimed fewer Republicans are "preaching doom on deficits" because deficits are lower.

On ObamaCare, he added: "There's a reason fewer Republicans, you hear them running about ObamaCare --- because while good, affordable health care might seem like a fanged threat to the freedom of the American people on Fox News, it's turns out it's working pretty well in the real world."

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Two equal federal courts issue opposing rulings on ObamaCare

July 22, 2014 / Fox News

A federal appeals court dealt a major blow to ObamaCare on Tuesday, ruling against the legality of some subsidies issued to people through the Affordable Care Act exchanges.

The ruling is likely to be appealed. And a separate federal appeals court -- the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals -- hours later issued its own ruling on a similar case that upheld the subsidies in their entirety.

But the decision Tuesday morning by a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia nevertheless strikes at the foundation of the law by challenging subsidies that millions of people obtained through the federally run exchange known as

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Liberal reaction to Hobby Lobby ruling

July 01, 2014 / Fox News

The Supreme Court ruled Monday that some companies like the Oklahoma-based Hobby Lobby chain of arts-and-craft stores can avoid the contraceptives requirement in President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, if they have religious objections.

A sampling of reaction:

"Today, the Supreme Court took an outrageous step against the rights of America's women, setting a dangerous precedent that could permit for-profit corporations to pick and choose which laws to obey." — House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

"Employers have no business intruding in the private health care decisions women make with their doctors. ... If the Supreme Court will not protect women's access to health care, then Democrats will." — Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

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Mission accomplished? ObamaCare sign-ups reportedly on track to hit 7 million

April 01, 2014 / Fox News

On the last day to sign up for ObamaCare, the program apparently was on track to sign up more than 7 million Americans for insurance coverage, though the number of enrollees who have paid for their insurance premiums is still unclear.

A source confirmed to Fox News on Tuesday that the system was on track to see 7 million sign-ups. Seven million was the original target set by the Congressional Budget Office for enrollment in taxpayer-subsidized private health insurance through new online markets created under Obama's signature legislation.

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High court clash over ObamaCare contraceptive mandate

March 25, 2014 / Fox News

One of the most controversial provisions of ObamaCare -- the mandate requiring employers to cover contraception -- was debated before the Supreme Court on Tuesday, as activists on both sides of the issue clashed outside the courtroom in Washington.

The justices appeared divided in the case, which is the highest-profile challenge to the health care law since the Supreme Court narrowly upheld the Affordable Care Act in 2012.

The case argued Tuesday involves family-owned companies, including Hobby Lobby, that provide health insurance to their employees, but object to covering certain methods of birth control that they say can work after conception, in violation of their religious beliefs.

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Media attack Matt Drudge over Obamacare tweet

March 24, 2014 / Breitbart

From Breitbart:

A White House aide set off a stampede of liberal media criticism for Internet news pioneer Matt Drudge over Obamacare -- but his critics don't seem to understand how small businesses pay taxes.

The brouhaha started when Drudge tweeted, “Just paid the Obamacare penalty for not 'getting covered'... I'M CALLING IT A LIBERTY TAX.”

Jesse Lee, the Director of Progressive Media at Barack Obama's White House, responded that that was a “Flat lie, no fee for previous year,” adding, “Scary how much influence he once had.”

Drudge indicated in his followup tweets that since he is self-employed as the proprietor of The Drudge Report, he files as a small business. According to the IRS website for self-employed individuals, they are required to pay taxes quarterly.

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ObamaCare: Americans not fond of this 4 year old

March 21, 2014 / Fox News

Like party-goers who wish they weren’t invited, as ObamaCare hits its fourth birthday this Sunday a new poll shows Americans don’t much like the birthday boy. And who can blame them?  Born of highly-partisan passage in 2010 by a then Democratic-controlled Congress without a single favorable Republican vote, the president's signature health law has unleashed a cascade of confusion via a disastrous rollout, millions of policy cancellations and sticker shock. Results of the latest Pew Research survey show 53 percent of respondents disapprove of the entitlement program, while 41 percent approve. Opposition to the health law is just one point shy of the poll’s all-time high. This can’t be a welcome gift as team Obama continues its feverish enrollment push to reach a scaled-down goal of six million ObamaCare sign ups by March 31.

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